Transcription complète : Gwyneth Paltrow s'entretient avec Oprah Winfrey dans le cadre du premier podcast Goop.

Gwyneth Paltrow interviewe Oprah Winfrey dans le tout premier Goop Podcast

Gwyneth Paltrow : I’m Gwyneth Paltrow and you’re listening to the Goop podcast made possible by our friends at Boll and Branch. Sleep hygiene and its impact on our health is a popular topic at Goop HQ. Luckily Boll and Branch is on the same page.

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Gwyneth Paltrow : I am beyond beyond excited to be launching the first episode of the Goop podcast with one of my heroes who not coincidentally happens to be a lot of people’s hero. Oprah Winfrey.

Oprah Winfrey : Je crois que fondamentalement, nous sommes tous les mêmes.

Gwyneth Paltrow : J'ai dû me pincer plusieurs fois au cours de notre conversation avec Oprah sur toutes les façons dont elle a repoussé et continue de repousser les limites dans sa carrière et dans sa vie.

Oprah Winfrey : Don’t hold anything too tightly just wish for it. Want it. Let it come from the intention of real truth for you and then let it go. And if it’s supposed to be yours it will show up and it won’t show up until you stop holding it so tightly.

Gwyneth Paltrow : As a philanthropist, talk show host, producer, actor (go see her in a wrinkle in time), mentor, and modern thought leader. Oprah has been instrumental in breaking open old paradigms and paving the way for new voices ideas and movements. I’m so incredibly grateful for the chance to sit down with her and continue to learn from her. Here she is, Oprah.

Oprah Winfrey : I’ll try not to run the show.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Maintenant vous pouvez diriger le spectacle.

Oprah Winfrey : Actually there’s a very big misconception.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Vraiment.

Oprah Winfrey : Ce n'est pas vrai.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Qui aimez-vous pour tout diriger ?

Oprah Winfrey : J'aime m'entourer de personnes qui peuvent diriger les choses afin que je puisse être libre d'être avec mes pensées.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Comment en êtes-vous arrivé là, car je pense vraiment que pour pouvoir continuer à se développer et à créer, il faut du temps.

Oprah Winfrey : You can’t do it without time.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Comment en êtes-vous arrivé là ? Y a-t-il eu une période pendant laquelle vous avez eu l'impression que vous deviez tout faire vous-même ?

Oprah Winfrey : Yes including booking the guests and on the Oprah show when I first started. And then I realized I’m really terrible at this. But it was really important to me in the beginning to do every job so that I would understand what other people were doing. And obviously I couldn’t do you know the videotape room.

Oprah Winfrey : I did no editing because when I first started out in television, the very first day I was sent out on assignment, I was asked if I could edit even though I couldn’t I said I could and I went to people and said you got to show me how to edit this. This is back in the old days where they’re using Bell and Howell film and you had to go in the room and actually cut the little pieces of film.

Oprah Winfrey : And so I would say that this the power of my being able to move forward has been based on me paying attention. And Maya Angelou used to say to me all the time, babe, you are where you are because you are obedient to the call. And she would understand she said. And even when I tell you things I like the way you listen and then decide for yourself whether it is for you. And I’ve been doing that a very long time.

Oprah Winfrey : But I actually learned I wasn’t just a talk show. I was also a listening show. So I feel, Gwyneth, at this particular time in my life that all of that listening has come to fill a space of knowing for me that I would not had had I not actually listened.

Oprah Winfrey : So probably you’ve heard me say over the years there was a time where it made the shift from it being a show to it being a ministry and it being just an expression of my self to the world.

Oprah Winfrey : And that shift, that ability for me to offer every day, whether it was Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt or a woman who’d lost everything she owned because her husband kicked her out of the house, or victims of abuse domestic violence kids whatever the subject I was able to find the thread of hope in it. I was able to find what is the the thing that’s going to connect to the audience.

Oprah Winfrey : I’m always looking for what is that thing. How is what you’re saying going to resonate with the people who are listening. Because I believe that fundamentally we are all the same. And that that’s why when you go to a movie and you cry and you experience joy or you have any kind of reaction.

Oprah Winfrey : What I started calling aha moments, the aha’s are, it’s a vibrational frequency that’s touching what’s already there. That’s what makes you go. Ah ha ha I knew that I just wasn’t able to express it in that way. Aha that feels familiar that that sounds right. That feels like the truth to me. That’s what an aha is, it’s a remembering.

Gwyneth Paltrow : It’s a resonance.

Oprah Winfrey : It’s a resonance and it’s a remembering of what you always always knew.

Gwyneth Paltrow : And do you find especially when you’re in your position in this show that’s what people really I feel like so many people don’t have the tools to connect to those aha moments. They don’t they sort of are doing their thing they’re busy they’re head down and they’re especially then I feel like now we’re more in the culture more open to spirituality and more open to resonance and open to open mindedness.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Mais j'ai l'impression que dans les années 80 et 90, il y avait plus de faire que d'être et j'ai l'impression qu'une partie de ce que vous avez fait était d'introduire d'une certaine manière cette spiritualité.

Oprah Winfrey : I feel that we do too and I think it’s exciting to me that it’s catching up to what I knew and believed it could be but when I first started talking about spirituality. Remembering your spirit. We had a little segment on call remembering your spirit because I was just trying to get people little pieces of it.

Oprah Winfrey : And I remember doing a show with Carolyn Mace who wrote the anatomy of spirit and in the middle of that show I’m watching the audience and I use the audience to gauge the larger world audience and I can tell who’s listening who’s not listening and I could tell the people who just zoned out.

Oprah Winfrey : And so I stopped the show stop the taping and said hey hey hey hey hey are you still with us. And woman stood up and said no no we’re not what are you talking about spirit. This was 92. Wow. And I said well you know mind body spirit right. Because I said you know you’re mine right. You have a body and you have a spirit and she goes Well I know I have a mind of a body but what are you talking about spirit.

Oprah Winfrey : In 1992 while we were talking about the anatomy of spirit people don’t know what spirit is and so. And then somebody else said are you talking about Jesus Christ you’re talking about disciples are you talking about the Bible what are you talking about. No I said I’m talking about the part of you that is your essence.

Oprah Winfrey : That is like your soul. That is the part that never dies that is. And so therefore we have to start from ground zero to explain what the word spirit means. So now we’re a long way from that but I will say that the show The Oprah Show was a part of opening up that aperture to talk about it in a way that’s not so woo woo. And of course when you are pioneering anything are introducing new ideas to the culture you get criticized.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Vous le faites ?

Oprah Winfrey : Ouais. Tu as entendu dire que les gens sont résistants à tout ce qui les éloigne de leur façon de penser actuelle. Parce que cela signifie que je dois laisser partir ce que je pense être et faire de la place pour la possibilité de quelque chose d'autre.

Gwyneth Paltrow : So it’s threatening?

Oprah Winfrey : Yeah it feels it feels threatening and also like I’m used to doing things the way I’ve been doing it. And then if I have to change my belief if I have to believe which is which is the thing that is fundamentally disruptive to people.

Oprah Winfrey : If I have to change what I believe then it means that I may not be who I think I am. Because I’ve based who I think I am on a belief system so if you’re asking me to I remember like simple things that aren’t so simple that have life changing impact on a family.

Oprah Winfrey : I used to always do these shows about not hitting your kids and is spanking ok. So in the 80s we were still having that discussion. Is it ok to spank your kids. And I remember major moment with a viewer in a grocery store saying to me you changed my life and I used to just say oh ok thank you. And then I started stopping to pay attention to what that really meant because when somebody says to you you change my life that’s a major thing.

Oprah Winfrey : So tell me how she said well I used to be my kids. I used to beat my kids. And I used to hear you talk about every time you on TV you talking about don’t beat your kids don’t beat your kids and she said how you going have good kids you don’t beat them?

Oprah Winfrey : And so she said I decided one day I’m going just see. I’m going to see. I will try this for one week. I’m not going to get my kids she said. So I did not hit my son for a week and then I tried it another week and I didn’t hit my son and then she said you know it’s been weeks now and I haven’t hit my son and I have a different son and I am a different mother. And she said it’s not because the first time you said it it’s because you were consistent. You were consistent. Every time you said it. So a little change like that.

Oprah Winfrey : Look at the impact that has on that son on that mother on that family. And I recognized by paying attention to that that it’s the little things that turn into big things and make major changes in people’s lives.

Oprah Winfrey : I mean that’s a powerful thing that happened because I was consistent. So I started that was a lesson to me and I pay attention to that and it’s important to me to remain consistent in my ideas and consistent in whatever it is I’m trying to to offer. But it was a that was a that was a life changing moment for me. Hearing her getting that kind of feedback from someone.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Et comment supportez-vous d'être cette personne dans le monde ?

Oprah Winfrey : Je pense que nous sommes tous cette personne dans le monde. La différence, c'est qu'à travers la plateforme de cette émission et aussi maintenant qui je suis et le monde, j'ai accès à plus de gens. Mais une des choses que j'ai dites quand j'ai terminé l'émission, c'est que chacun a sa propre plateforme. Tout le monde a sa propre plateforme et son niveau d'influence.

Oprah Winfrey : I recognize that I am a big soul. And the way you know if you’re a big soul your souls influence is in direct proportion to the amount of people you’re able to affect.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Intéressant.

Oprah Winfrey : Yeah. So that means I’m a big soul. There are smaller souls that are also equally as powerful in their field just because you can’t reach a lot of people doesn’t mean that you don’t have the same impact on the people that you are reaching.

Oprah Winfrey : So I think I value knowing that that it’s not just I don’t think of myself as a personality as much as I think of myself as a being in personality form that has come to affect and to influence through my own expression. That’s what that’s what I think. But I think everybody has that.

Oprah Winfrey : One of the other things. If I were to do a book which I keep thinking I might and then I think it’s too hard. Now I have to talk about my parents I don’t want to do. So I keep doing pieces of books. You know what I know for sure and you know wisdom of Sundays and pieces of things.

Oprah Winfrey : But it would be about these great lessons I learned from listening. I just learned so much from listening. You know I never had a day of therapy but I had multiple days of therapy by listening listening listening listening and trying to not repeat mistakes that I had had conversations about. And in many ways embodied you know for a long time I was taking it in to the point where I was making myself ill. I had to find a way to shield myself from other people’s energy protect myself from it and not take everything in. And also but also be able to listen.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Et comment avez-vous fait ça ?

Oprah Winfrey : J'ai commencé une pratique dans l'ascenseur. Tout d'abord, j'ai commencé à méditer. Et ensuite...

Gwyneth Paltrow : Quel genre ?

Oprah Winfrey : La méditation transcendantale.

Gwyneth Paltrow : What’s your mantra?

Mais je fais toutes les formes et vous savez, la plus grande méditation pour moi, c'est de vivre. Eckhart Tolle m'a dit ceci . Si vous ne méditez jamais dans votre vie, être capable de vivre le moment présent en est la plus grande forme. Quand tu peux juste être pleinement présent.

Oprah Winfrey : J'ai donc commencé dans l'ascenseur à descendre pour faire mon spectacle en ayant comme un moment de couverture et de lumière physiquement en ayant cette visualisation de couverture de lumière pour que je sois protégée de vous savez tout mal et aussi en m'ouvrant pour être un vaisseau qui était plus grand que ma personnalité.

Oprah Winfrey : So that whatever I said would come from a place of respect and honor intention and love. And in a way that people could feel that. And so one of the biggest changes for me was around 89 90. I read Zuckoff’s book and Gary Zuckoff and it was the principle of intention that actually changed my life. Forever.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Il faut que je me procure ce livre.

Oprah Winfrey : Pour toujours. Il consacre deux chapitres à l'intention. Si je devais dire que j'ai été élevé en tant que chrétien, je crois en la philosophie chrétienne mais ma vraie religion est la règle d'or qui est née de la troisième loi du mouvement en physique qui dit que ce que vous mettez dehors revient tout le temps.

Oprah Winfrey : For every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction. So Zuckoff talked about this in Seat of the Soul. He also talked about this principle of intention that exists in always before there even is a cause or an effect.

Oprah Winfrey : There is an intention that creates the cause you have a reason for wanting to do things. What is the true reason. What is the pure truth of the reason why you’re doing a thing. And if you look at what the intention is in every circumstance in your life the in the energy of the intention that comes before the cause which is automatically going to create an effect. The intention is what actually creates the effect. It is the motivation behind the reason you do the thing that creates the effect.

Gwyneth Paltrow : So if it’s coming from a place of lack or fear.

Oprah Winfrey : That is going to show up in the effect. And so if you and I use this for everything in my life when I got it I stop saying yes when I meant no. I stopped going to places I didn’t really want to be. I stop doing things for people I really didn’t want to do.

Oprah Winfrey : Because what happens is I used to have the disease to please. What happens is if you continue to say yes because you want the people to think I want to think I’m nice I don’t want them to think that I’ve got a big head. I don’t want them to think I want to. That’s exactly what they think they think you’re nice. They think you meant what you said and that’s why they come back. I couldn’t understand why I would loan people money I would do things for them I would show up for the. And then they’re asking again why are they asking me again. I just did it.

Oprah Winfrey : They’re asking you again because your intention was to make them think it’s okay to ask me so I’m sure I can be your doormat because I’m going to ask me at the last minute you can show up for you. I’m going to do it. And so when I started just doing things based upon what is my intention. So what actually changed me with it. The very first time I got the principle I used it in my own life to say no to someone really important would ask me to do something and I thought normally I would have said yes because I didn’t want that person mad at me and then I just said no I’m not going to do that. It was a benefit to me show up Stevie Wonder. I’m not going to do that. Sorry I can’t do that. And he just said okay.

Oprah Winfrey : I was stunned. I thought it was going to be this big long negotiation. He just said no and saying no as it’s been a big thing in my life. It’s a constant. I mean I just recently was in an instance where somebody was asking me to do a benefit for them that I didn’t want to do. They wanted me to be honorary chair. You know you get the honorary chairs. I don’t I don’t put my name on anything that I am not actually involved with. So if you see my name there means I did something.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Bien.

Oprah Winfrey : And I don’t show up unless I feel like this is where I want to be. And so the person was saying well why wouldn’t you do it. And in the end you must love the children. I get that you love the children and it’s for the children.

Oprah Winfrey : So I guess yes I do love the children and I’m taking care of a lot of children but I don’t want to do that. And I actually had to just say why can’t you hear the no way. Why can’t you hear the no which I wouldn’t have been able to do years ago I would have been I would have just done it. So that person would not be mad at me.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Yeah I think so many of us especially women suffer from that. I mean we all have that disease to please. I certainly do. It’s something that I’m really trying to focus on working on at this stage in my life because you know on the one hand I feel the freedom of saying no and drawing a boundary and on the other hand I still so worry about hurting people’s feelings and not being what they thought I was etc.. So how do you what is the practice to get there.

Oprah Winfrey : Well what you want is you want to get this principle of intention so that everything that you bring to everything you do comes from a strong. I talk about frequencies and vibrations all the time because I think that’s what we all are.

Oprah Winfrey : I think everything is you know the trees the grass. And that you are emanating a kind of energy from you that draws to you like energy. And so you want that energy your frequency to be the strongest. You know when I finally said yes. I didn’t say yes to doing this interview until I could say a full 100 percent yes. I don’t want part of me to be sitting in the chair.

Oprah Winfrey : Une partie de moi est ici et une autre partie se dit "j'aurais dû faire ça ou je devrais faire ça ou je voulais dire quand je peux pleinement dire oui et le faire à partir d'un espace qui me fait me sentir bien et pas seulement vous sentir bien".

Gwyneth Paltrow : Bien.

Oprah Winfrey : Même si vous avez été très persévérant.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Well there’s no other first interview I could have besides you.

Oprah Winfrey : Mais tu m'as eu avec ton bon Gwyneth ton bon.

Gwyneth Paltrow : I’m not even Catholic I knew how to guilt you.

Oprah Winfrey : Oui, mais je me suis demandé pourquoi je le ferais.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Et qu'est-ce que c'était ?

Oprah Winfrey : First of all it’s your first. And I remember when I was trying to do my very first show how hard it was to get a first. And we were like bribing and Don Johnson because he was doing Miami Vices time. We were like doing everything. It’s so hard to get that first. I’ve been there with that first.

Oprah Winfrey : And also I was thinking ok what would I talk about that I haven’t said before. And you know then I thought it well I’m really proud of what Ava DuVernay has done with Wrinkle. And you know this is a big moment for Storm and I can talk about them and we can talk about what’s going on with women in the you know in the me too. But there are lots of things we can talk about that I thought would be interesting for Goop.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Merci.

Oprah Winfrey : Pour Goop.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Et aussi, tu sais, je suis tombé sur toi à une fête récemment et je sortais d'une série de personnes qui m'avaient tabassé pour avoir parlé de médecine alternative. Et tu m'as encouragé à garder le cap et à croire en moi.

Oprah Winfrey : Any time you speak alternative people are like what does that mean. That’s true. I got so beat up I got so beat up with people saying oh now it’s a church of Oprah and of.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Il l'est d'ailleurs.

Oprah Winfrey : And it’s the church of Oprah trying to start your own religion. What are you doing and what are you talking about spirit. And I just stayed the course. What I realized was and Marianne told me this you know I used to be such as a zealot for things like you’ve got to get this you know you’ve got it. Oh my gosh you got to know this.

Oprah Winfrey : And I realized the year we cause every year I decided that I had said to my team we are our greatest competition. There is no competition other than yourself. Don’t worry about what the other guy is doing. You waste energy you take energy away from yourself even if you’re in a race to turn around and see where the other guy is playing.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Je suis d'accord.

Oprah Winfrey : So just focus on what you can do because you can’t beat them at their race. You can only win your own. So during all of those years every time there’d be another show that would come out. My staff would go oh my god. Geraldo Rivera. Oh Ricki Lake Oh my god. You know I think there are a hundred and forty seven some talk shows that came up.

Oprah Winfrey : And after a while you just learned, they learned, focus focus focus focus focus on what it is you want you can do do that better. The to the very best of your ability and because you get because you can’t be what somebody else is.

Oprah Winfrey : So to answer your other question about how do you how do you get there. Years ago, I have and I have a story for everything because I used to listen to stories for 25 years. One of the most impressive ones was a woman who had her son had died of either cancer or AIDS. I don’t remember but she climbed into bed with him as he was taking his last breath. And she said his last words that she could barely hear only because she was lying against his chest. He said oh mom. It was all so simple it’s so simple. Mom closed his eyes and died.

Oprah Winfrey : And I got chills when I heard it. Is one of those things that resonates as an aha I said we’re making it all so complicated and it’s really all so simple. So that was also big life changing moment for me. I go. How how am I making it more complicated than it needs to be. How can I you know slow down pay attention and see the simplicity in things and sort of follow these laws that I’ve come to know to be true.

Oprah Winfrey : The universal language that all human beings and all of nature is speaking how can I do that. And so when I started to practice actually what I know to be true. So I would say that to everyone who’s listening to us right now you already know and you may have Goop as a guide or inspiration but the reason why you’re drawn to that.

Oprah Winfrey : You’re the reason why people are drawn to those inspirations is because there is something there that is yearning to remember. Is yearning to be reminded.

Gwyneth Paltrow : That’s beautifully said.

Oprah Winfrey : De la beauté que vous détenez, des expériences et des aventures que vous voulez partager, de l'amour que vous voulez offrir. L'expression que vous voulez donner. Et donc, ce que Goop fait, c'est vous rappeler sous forme physique, de manière tangible et non tangible, des parties de vous-même qui sont belles et qui veulent aspirer au meilleur, et vous savez, qui veut critiquer ça ?

Oprah Winfrey : We’re all just trying to reach for the highest truest expression of ourselves as human beings. That’s the commonality that we share. And the thing that I know whether I meet you know someone on skid row or meets someone you know sitting in a billionaire’s club that that person is they want the same thing I want and that is to be able to have what is the fullest truest expression of myself as a human being. And how do you do that.

Oprah Winfrey : You know you can’t get there without practice being connected to the essence of yourself to the source of your creation is like developing a spiritual muscle. And it does not happen if you’re just running around all the time. So just like you bathe to stay clean and just like you’re going to wash your hair and you going to brush your teeth. And there are practices that keep yourself healthy and viable. There are also spiritual practices that do the same transcendental meditation is one of them.

Oprah Winfrey : And it is one of the practices but for me it’s a conscious working model to stay fully present here and now. And I practice it if I’m at the sink and putting a cup in the sink. I’m walking down the stairs and walking up the stairs. I am in that moment conscious of my hand is on the railing.

Oprah Winfrey : Gee one foot is in front of the other. Wow my legs are moving every day. This has happened for all the years of my life. I can’t believe my body is still functioning this way. Isn’t this great. I’m in the as I said to you earlier. Thanks for all my Goop products for bath. Bathing is my hobby. I’m putting the bath salts in the water. I’m lighting the candle. I’m aware of that. I’m fully just there. I’m just there. I’m experiencing the water my tub happens to sit in a place where I get to see the ocean. So I was in the water looking at the white caps on the ocean I’m like wow.

Oprah Winfrey : Every part of it is beauty to me. Brings a little piece of joy and you know helps helps my frequency. So I’m doing that all the time I’m doing that even if something shows up that is uncomfortable. You know who taught me that is Maya Angelou. Because I lived as you have lived every other week in the tabloids.

Oprah Winfrey : I was always glad when you were on taking advantage of me. Thanks. I’m glad someone said glad when to go. It’s not me this week. And every time I would get so upset about it I Maya would say but baby what you don’t have anything to do with that. But they’re saying and you know it’s not true.

Oprah Winfrey : You don’t know what it’s like when people are saying things but she says but you’re not in it. It has nothing to actually do with you. It has to do with whoever sat down at the computer at that moment. You know I’ve been it’s been happening so long. She actually said whoever’s sitting at the typewriter they’re thinking what can we say this week that’s going to sell some stories.

Oprah Winfrey : It’s also why I stopped making as many public appearances with Stedman because I realized that every time there’s a new photograph there’s a new story.

Gwyneth Paltrow : It’s an invitation.

Oprah Winfrey : And it’s an invitation. Yeah you got that too right.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Oui, ça m'a pris une minute.

Oprah Winfrey : Ça prend une minute. Oh, tu sais quoi. Tu sais, je les imagine, ils ont les photos sur le mur, qu'est-ce qu'on a cette semaine. Quelle expression avons-nous ? Que pouvons-nous créer à partir de ça ?

Gwyneth Paltrow : Qui était Maya pour toi ?

Oprah Winfrey : She was in many ways the embodiment in physical form of what this character which I will talk about later that I’m now portraying in a Wrinkle In Time. This celestial wise through millennia angel woman. So she was the mother figure for me.

Oprah Winfrey : You know my biological mother didn’t have the opportunity to be educated. Being raised in the south being a domestic worker her whole life she didn’t have the opportunities that Maya Angelou so fortunately had been exposed to. So my mother couldn’t give me what Maya had. I needed a mother like my to mentor me through this whole fame process.

Oprah Winfrey : And so she was my grounding tool for it all. I learned my greatest lessons from her. She was my comfort she was my nurturer she was my inspiration. She was the person who was saying you can do it babe you can do it. And she’d say take it all the way. And then she would point to the stars take it all the way. Go all the way.

Oprah Winfrey : Ainsi, même maintenant, quand quelque chose va très bien et quelque chose va très mal, son esprit reste avec le mien. Et je fais appel à elle verbalement.

Gwyneth Paltrow : A voix haute.

Oprah Winfrey : A voix haute. Quand je me suis réveillée ce matin, j'ai dit que Maya allait faire cette interview avec Gwenyth et je suis venue.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Et la voilà.

Oprah Winfrey : And here she is. Yes. I mean Maya I’m going to be because you know why because I feel that there is responsibility that comes when you are speaking to millions of people. There is a responsibility that comes with that.

Oprah Winfrey : You owe that some thought you owe not to just be. It’s why I’m very very careful on social media. I don’t think that it’s the best forum for expressing the deepest parts of yourself and so I’m careful about what I say and what I don’t say and how it can be interpreted because I think words matter and have such great power. Lasting power.

Oprah Winfrey : And so I think about it I think about just as before I would do every show I would empty myself and say let me be a vessel for something bigger than I be I am because I know I’m speaking to lots of crazy people who can interpret whatever we’re doing or saying in whatever way they want.

Oprah Winfrey : So let the crazies hear this carefully and lots of people who are in need and lots of people who are just open to hear what you have to say and some people who are not. So let me be a vessel for something that’s bigger than myself.

Gwyneth Paltrow : And when you say there’s a responsibility in it. What does that mean to you.

Oprah Winfrey : Pour moi, cela signifie que chaque personne qui vient sur terre a la responsabilité, comme je le disais, de rechercher l'expression la plus vraie et la plus élevée, et le mot-clé ici est la vraie responsabilité, comment rester ? Comment ne pas simplement dire la vérité. Comment êtes-vous la vérité ?

Oprah Winfrey : Responsibility is to show up in that which is the most authentic truthful version of yourself. That’s that’s how I see it.

Gwyneth Paltrow : And I think that you know when you were talking about Maya Angelou what she was to you without sounding completely cheesy that’s what you are to so many of us.

Oprah Winfrey : Well that would mean that would mean what would that mean if I could open to if I could see that. I don’t know. That would mean I wouldn’t be able to bear that. I couldn’t. I don’t know what that would mean. I don’t.

Gwyneth Paltrow : It’s true though.

Oprah Winfrey : ok. I don’t know what that would mean.

Gwyneth Paltrow : And you somehow gave us all permission to seek that well that’s good.

Oprah Winfrey : Well that’s a good life.

Gwyneth Paltrow : That space wasn’t there for us before you named it and you gave us all permission.

Oprah Winfrey : Vraiment.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Ouais.

Oprah Winfrey : I’m going to think about that.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Ok.

Oprah Winfrey : Après que tu l'aies laissé et que tu m'aies pris une minute.

Gwyneth Paltrow : That’s fine.

Oprah Winfrey : I would say though that this thing of “Oh mom it’s so simple” that the reason why people’s lives get so complicated is because you’re trying to live it for somebody else other than yourself.

Oprah Winfrey : That is the key. Make it simple. When you just start doing it for yourself. And that is not a selfish thing. That is an honorable thing. It’s an honorable thing and I remember in the 90s I had Cheryl Richardson on who is a life coach and she did she.

Oprah Winfrey : We were doing this test in the audience and asking women where are you on the list of 10 year 10 priorities the 10 top things that you prioritize most of the women in the audience also around 92 93 did not have themselves on the list or they were at the bottom of the list. And when Sheryl said out loud you should be first on the list they started booing in the Oprah Show audience and I had to say I remember it so vividly I’m saying hey we’re not Jerry Springer here.

Oprah Winfrey : Nous savons que nos gars ont commencé à huer.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Wow.

Oprah Winfrey : With the idea that you should put yourself first on the list. So in the mid 90s people were like are you kidding? And that women are shouting. You must not have children. She doesn’t have children. So how does she know.

Oprah Winfrey : And so I said she didn’t say abandon your children and leave them in the street she said put yourself on the list so you can better take care of your children. Well that principle of not being selfish but self-aware enough to honor the vessel the vehicle that is your body that is your way on earth.

Oprah Winfrey : Your presence here on Earth in this dense form there is nothing more important than that because what you give and feed to yourself that makes yourself whole creates an opportunity to have your cup overflow to give more to other people and you can only do that coming from. You can only do that at your best when you’ve come from. You’re coming from a whole place your whole.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Bien. Tu te sens entier ?

Oprah Winfrey : Oui, vraiment.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Êtes-vous heureux ?

Oprah Winfrey : Oh happiness is not even a word I use for myself. Cause happiness seems temporal it builds temporary and they this thing happens. I’m so happy I’m so happy now. It is far far far deeper than happiness. I can I can get happy about things but I’m generally in such a state of quiet contentment.

Beneath the surface of whatever it is and in and a sense of peace about things that happiness is sort of like an afterthought. Of course I’m happy. Of course I’m happy because I’m just I’m basically at peace and content and I’ve I’ve talked to 37,000 over 37,000 people but I’ve also listened.

I see the commonality in my experiences with other people. I live a very luxurious highly elevated life. I have always loved beauty and being surrounded by beauty. So to now be in a place that I live in a place that’s like a park to me.

Gwyneth Paltrow : I think it’s kind of a shit hole.

Oprah Winfrey : To the fact that that has happened. ok. Well before I had oak trees surrounded by you know flower gardens I lived in a little apartment in Baltimore and I couldn’t afford any art and I would go to the art museum and I would buy postcards of Monet and Manet and you know Picasso and Klimpt. And I would frame the postcards on the wall.

Gwyneth Paltrow : That’s amazing.

Oprah Winfrey : Et je le ferais. Pour moi, c'était mon art. Et puis quand j'ai pu commencer à acheter des petites pièces comme des esquisses de Beurden ou vous savez, entrer dans le monde où vous pouvez réellement dépenser de l'argent pour de l'art. J'étais comme la toute première pièce importante dans la pièce qui est maintenant toujours la plus importante bien que pas la plus chère dans ma maison, c'est une photo d'une femme esclave sur le marché aux enchères avec sa fille.

Oprah Winfrey : And when you come in my house is the first thing you see. And that is the grounding painting for me. And then there’s the first major piece I bought like back in 1988.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Qui l'a peint ?

Oprah Winfrey : A guy named Harry Roselyn who is a 19th century genre painter who painted a lot of black folks but that woman who I’ve named Ana and her daughter Sarah I don’t even know their story but I know their story.

Oprah Winfrey : And one of the other things that I treasure in my home I have documents from slave plantations that have the names and ages and prices of slaves and sometimes when I feel like there have been times when I’ve been in crisis or felt like things weren’t going the way I wanted them to go. I will go into that room and I will speak their names out loud.

Oprah Winfrey : I will speak their names out loud. Douglass and Jenna and Carrie and Sarah and Anna and their ages and their prices and remind myself of how far I have come and no crisis seems that much of a crisis after you look at the names the ages the prices of people who were before you. Who made the. Who made this way possible. So that’s actually how I live my life. It sounds like Whew but it really is. Really it really is. And it didn’t.

Oprah Winfrey : You know I say this to my beautiful South African daughters. You know when we’re around the table you should actually pay attention. The reason you should pay attention is because I was lucky enough to get you when you were 12 years old and I have no agenda other than your highest well-being.

Oprah Winfrey : I don’t need you as a reflection of me. I don’t have that parenting thing. You’ve got to do well because it makes me look good or I just I just have your highest well-being is my only agenda. That’s only thing I’m looking out for. And so anything I ask or anything I tell so that I have really great relationships with them.

Gwyneth Paltrow : That’s crazy you know it just occurred to me when you said that I mean when people talk about or strive to be a mother like that to me is the ideal characteristic of a mother.

Oprah Winfrey : I just want what’s what’s the highest for you.

Gwyneth Paltrow : And it’s so difficult.

Oprah Winfrey : Ne pas s'attacher à l'autre.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Exactement et ne pas se projeter et ne pas voir ses propres défauts dans son enfant et être déclenché par cela.

Oprah Winfrey : We want you to be something that’s going to reflect back to me so it’s good thing.

Gwyneth Paltrow : This is very very tough and we were all raised so much and that kind of enmeshed way with our parents and that is the most profound. It’s so funny because you’re technically not a mother. And that is the most profound and insightful sentence about mothering. I mean in terms of you just really crystallize something for me there.

Oprah Winfrey : I’m glad it’s one of the reasons why I could do it from the age of 12. The way I’ve done it but I also was and was self-aware enough even when there was all this pressure to get married and you should have children and even from Gayle like you should get married and you should have children so that our children could grow up together. Well that’s not a reason I got to tell you. It would be nice but not a reason.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Parler de l'intention derrière quelque chose.

Oprah Winfrey : I didn’t think Maya had said this to me that her mother was not a good mother for small children. That she was raised by her grandmother was one of the reasons we connected so well because I was raised by my grandmother the first six years she was raised by her grandmother in the south and her mother was not a good mother for smart young children but her mother was a good great mother for her as a young adult woman.

Oprah Winfrey : Her mother could relate to her as an adult woman and so she later forgave her mother for not being there for her. As a child they became you know really strong I had a really strong bond till the end. But I don’t think I would have been a good mother for baby children baby children. Cause I need you to talk to me and I need you to tell me what’s wrong. I can’t just figure it out.

Oprah Winfrey : And I was always I knew that about myself always better with kids once they turned two and a half three. I had a real resonance with them and was like Oh you love babies and babies are fine so I don’t think that was for me. Even when people were saying but you could have your own nursery and you could build it in Harpo.

Oprah Winfrey : It didn’t feel like it was for me so I was searching even for that. What is the higher ground for me. Where will I be able to find my instinct for nurturing and caring and support for other people. Where will that show up for me and how will that show up for me.

Gwyneth Paltrow : We’ll have more with Oprah in a minute.

Gwyneth Paltrow : In the meantime let’s talk about one of our partners. If you’ve ever come to Goop.com you know that sleep hygiene is essential. Sleep is when our bodies unpack and recover from the stresses of the day. And not getting enough of it can be detrimental to our health. An essential part of any clean sleep routine is perfectly crisp yet soft bedding. You all know exactly what I’m talking about. At Goop we focus on GOTS certified organic cotton sheeting which means that no harmful chemicals were used in their creation. A company that’s setting the gold standard in the industry and my personal favorite is Boll and Branch. They use 100 percent pure organic cotton and everything is ethically made meaning that every farmer and factory worker is treated fairly every step of the way. If this all weren’t enough the sheets are incredibly soft unlike too many things in life they only get better with age. The more you wash them the cozier they get so Boll and Branch has a little clean sleep challenge for you. Take 30 days to sleep on their incredibly soft organic cotton bedding or return it for a full refund no questions asked. Head over to BollandBranch.com and use promo code Goop for 50 dollars off your first set of sheets.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Okay let’s get back to my chat with Oprah. I want to ask you so I don’t take up your whole day but I do want to talk to you about two things. One is this seismic change in what’s happening with regards to women in this country and the Me Too movement and why now. Why do you think now.

Oprah Winfrey : Well you can look at any given moment. One of my favorite books on earth. If you’re going to be a human being you need to read a new earth by Eckhart Tolle.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Quelqu'un est en train d'écrire ça ?

Oprah Winfrey : Ok, tu dois lire "Une nouvelle terre" d'Eckhart Tolle. Le premier chapitre est un peu lent et tu te dis "oh, qu'est-ce que c'est vraiment". Quand vous arrivez au deuxième chapitre sur l'ego et au troisième chapitre sur les rôles que vous jouez par rapport à votre ego et ensuite au cinquième chapitre sur le corps de douleur que tant de gens portent, vous commencez à comprendre.

Oprah Winfrey : And what he says is how do you know you’re supposed to be experiencing any given thing in any moment. The reason you know is because you’re experiencing that thing. So if it’s happening. It’s supposed to be happening right.

Oprah Winfrey : And so how you manage that is understanding that there is nothing showing up that isn’t supposed to teach you something about your own personal life and it’s teaching you about your own personal life to the direct extent that you are involved in it and it’s teaching us something about our entire consciousness.

Oprah Winfrey : So is it the thing that I I have come to know for sure is that there is no experience that you can have personally or that we can have as a body of consciousness this culture that isn’t here to help strengthen or elevate us. That you can use everything to take you to higher ground. And so this moment has been coming for a very long time. That’s what I was trying to say in my Golden Globes speech that I wasn’t trying to run for any office.

Oprah Winfrey : I was just trying to say and I wanted to be able to say to the Me Too movement. Proud of where we are what we’re doing but you need to know you didn’t get here alone that there are those who endured suffered didn’t speak because they couldn’t speak because they if they knew that to speak would mean I won’t be able to feed my children and who’ve come before you that made this path possible. So it’s been coming for a very long time. So that’s what the Recy Taylor story.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Pourquoi est-ce qu'il y a de la traction. Parce que je pense que je regarde en arrière et je pense que dans tous les médias modernes, des femmes se sont manifestées au sujet de telle ou telle personne ou de X, Y ou Z.

Oprah Winfrey : It has traction for the same reason that the kids in Florida now have traction. Look at how many people had to die in order for that to get traction. I thought it was going to happen for sure Sandy Hook. That was my first that was actually my first thought when I heard there had been a shooting and five year olds had been killed. I thought this will be the thing this will be the one that breaks down. This will be the breakthrough this will get us to change. And it’s only because it happened with Harvey I believe because of faces like your own.

Oprah Winfrey : They were known to people that people had some kind of connection to something. There was a resonance a feeling of vibration whatever you want to call it. That’s number one. Number two it had been coming. It had been coming. It had been coming it had been coming with Cosby and nothing happened they had been coming with Bill O’Reilly had been coming had been coming even with the president the United States where people can hear the access Hollywood tape and yet nothing happens.

Oprah Winfrey : It had been coming it had been coming. And so that moment was the moment where it all crystallized. And it’s just like everybody’s so excited as as I about the phenomenon that is a black panther. Black Panther couldn’t have happened 10 years ago. The way it happened recently the reason it’s happened the way it has is because in order for phenomena to be a phenomena everything has to line up.

Oprah Winfrey : Cela signifie que la culture, l'esprit du temps à ce moment précis est prête, disponible et ouverte pour entendre ce message. Et donc il a fallu que femme après femme après femme ne soit pas entendue et maintenant certains visages se présentent que nous reconnaissons et avec lesquels nous avons une certaine résonance.

Oprah Winfrey : My God it could happen to them than this thing that I’ve been hiding within myself that I was so ashamed of that I felt guilty about because I’m just a waitress or a nurse or a clerk or a secretary or an assistant or whatever. Wow if it could happen to them. That really means something.

Oprah Winfrey : So the resonance happens because there’s been enough puncturing of the of the of the veil in the culture that finally is large enough for people to hear it. Now I will use this philosophy from my show days. But even as a young reporter I started to figure this out that I hated being in the newsroom.

Oprah Winfrey : It just felt like I was in the wrong space in my life and I was always asking God where am I supposed to be really where I was to be really but now I realize oh I needed that. So as a young reporter in Baltimore I started to notice I was I was the street I was assigned to go out on the street whenever anything happened so I’m just literally in the car with the photographer.

Oprah Winfrey : So I’d get sent to the ambulance I was you know accidents and everything and there came a time where when I first started at 22 if there was a drunk driving accident that would be front of the news. After a while you’d have to kill more than one person. You have to kill more than two people.

Oprah Winfrey : Il fallait qu'un enfant soit impliqué et il fallait qu'il y ait d'autres enfants avant que cela ne fasse la une des journaux, nous allions de plus en plus loin dans les journaux parce que c'était tellement commun. Je me souviens d'une nuit où je travaillais tard et où il y a eu un accident de bus scolaire dans lequel sept enfants qui revenaient de la chorale pour chanter des chants de Noël ont été tués par un conducteur ivre.

Oprah Winfrey : I thought oh that’s where that’s where we are now. You’ve got to be seven kids coming from choir practice singing Christmas carols to get people’s attention. And I started to learn from that that the culture becomes numb. They can’t hear it. They can’t hear it. They can’t hear it. And then finally there is a massive enough number critical mass that people can hear it that people can hear it. So I’m certainly willing to support and get behind these kids these kids in Florida feel like the new freedom writers to me.

Gwyneth Paltrow : And that’s the difference between Sandy Hook.

Oprah Winfrey : Et c'était des petits enfants.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Ces jeunes hommes et ces jeunes femmes ont une voix et un pouvoir.

Oprah Winfrey : Their parents tried to have power but they tried to do it in such a diplomatic quiet way that they were shut down. Can you believe that the parents of little baby 5 year olds and 6 year olds go to Congress and cannot be heard. It makes no sense but that’s why I’m where I’m willing to.

Oprah Winfrey : I want to get behind these kids who feel like the new day is on the horizon. The new day is on the horizon. So for this moment in time where women can be heard. And this moment in time where the young voices can be heard. The reason why it excites me so much about the young people in Florida is because they’re going to take the energy and power of that pain and turn it into something miraculous.

Oprah Winfrey : Et je sais ce que cela signifie quand vous utilisez ces morts pour en faire quelque chose, vous savez, ces 17 personnes qui ont été tuées comme je crois que tous les gens viennent, vous savez, la mort est là pour nous montrer comment vivre. J'ai ressenti ça après le 11 septembre. Et quand nous l'avons eu pour un moment et puis nous l'avons perdu. Ces gens étaient des anges sacrifiés qui nous ont permis de nous regarder d'une manière différente.

Oprah Winfrey : Our country and our culture and the way we operated in the world and the same thing is true for this moment in time I believe for the children in Florida who are rising up who’ve said enough enough.

Oprah Winfrey : And that’s what it takes. Some critical mass it takes. And you know I thought it would have been the problem with Las Vegas is there were people from all different backgrounds. ok so it’s 58.

Oprah Winfrey : So I was wondering is it the number. Is it the number. Do you get such a mass amount that ok people pay attention. But I think it is because these children have grown up in the age where shooter onsite and practicing for you know for such a thing to happen has been a part of their regular lives and they are sick of it. They’ve had enough.

Gwyneth Paltrow : La culture de la suffisance.

Oprah Winfrey : Oui la culture du suffisant avec la même chose pour les femmes. La même chose pour les femmes.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Do you have any practical advice. This is something that we’re talking about a lot in the office right now because so many women when the Me Too movement started it’s sort of everybody everybody. I don’t know. I don’t have one friend one colleague one school mother who wasn’t either sexually harassed sexually abused molested. Not one.

Oprah Winfrey : It’s touched everybody obviously there’s a spectrum. And there’s a lot now where women were all really talking about our experiences and obviously there’s healing in that. But I think we’re all a little bit stuck on how did you heal from sexual abuse.

Oprah Winfrey : Well that is a process. But I will tell you this knowing that you’re not alone is a part of the big healing. I remember the first time I realized that I wasn’t the only kid who had been sexually molested the first time I realized that I was doing a talk show where somebody was telling their story.

Oprah Winfrey : And I was like dumbfounded. I didn’t know what to do. That is my story. This is a good cry right now. I mean I was like has happened to someone else. I thought I was the only and the first time I heard it I was in Baltimore and I didn’t have the courage to speak out on television about it.

Oprah Winfrey : I had a cohost in the girls telling the story and I’m like that’s just like me. That sounds like me. It was her uncle. Oh my gosh. She was the same age. Oh my gosh.

Oprah Winfrey : So afterwards I went into the greenroom and I said to her say and she said why didn’t you say something. And I said I never heard that it ever happened to anybody before and I don’t know. I don’t know what the truth was I was scared.

Oprah Winfrey : I was 22 or 23 at the time and that’s when I started to realize Oh this is this has happened to somebody before. So when it happened on television when I was the master of my own show I said I’m not going to let this moment pass.

Oprah Winfrey : Et j'ai dit "Moi aussi". A l'antenne à cette fille et elle m'a demandé si j'étais toi. Oui. Et c'est là que tout a commencé. Mais le pouvoir vient du fait de pouvoir dire d'abord que c'est arrivé parce que beaucoup de femmes se disent que c'était autre chose. Et puis j'ai juste écrit ce que je sais avec certitude pour le magazine à ce sujet.

Oprah Winfrey : At the time I was being sexually harassed in my years in Baltimore and there were several years where I had a boss who just did it just was a part of the thing. And I didn’t say anything. And I don’t hold any guilt about it. And I also don’t hold any guilt about not speaking up as a child.

Oprah Winfrey : Je dirais donc qu'il faut parler quand on se sent suffisamment en sécurité pour le faire.

Oprah Winfrey : So you tell and tell and tell until there’s someone who will believe you. Whether you were child or whether you’re an adult and you can get support and feel safe. So the reason I didn’t tell as a child when I was being sexually molested by one person then in other words is because I knew I would be blamed.

Oprah Winfrey : I knew that it would somehow turn on me and it would make my life worse I make that person then turn on me the whole family. I didn’t know if I’d be harmed. So I didn’t feel safe. And I would say to anyone even now if you’re in an environment where you have a situation where you’re being harassed you speak up where you can feel safe to speak up and that you’re not going to be retaliated against in a way that is going to cause you more harm. I would speak to that person directly I think what the Me Too movement has done is given women the power to say back off.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Right. It was interesting to me to see all of the men when this all happened. Taking such forensic inventory of how they had behaved and could somebody have construed this the wrong way to say the wrong thing. You know men who won’t be accused of anything, taking inventory.

Oprah Winfrey : Those are the people doing the real inventory. Like have I said anything or done anything or have I crossed the line I’m sure a lot of men have because we live and have lived in a culture that allowed you to cross the line.

Oprah Winfrey : So lots of lines have been crossed and now it’s up to both women and men to redefine where those lines are. So I think we’re in this moment of figuring it out. And that’s really ok yeah. We’re figuring it out.

Gwyneth Paltrow : And I don’t think we like that as a culture. I think we like things binary they should be good or bad right or wrong.

Oprah Winfrey : C'est vrai.

Gwyneth Paltrow : And we’re living in a time now where we’re having to really embrace the gray areas and explore them and kind of come together and figure out. Are we redrawing lines what does that mean. And it’s ok that it feels confusing for a minute.

Oprah Winfrey : Pendant une minute. Mais je pense que la clarté est en route et je pense que le fait que ce mouvement ait donné à chaque femme, dans chaque partie du monde, un sentiment plus profond et plus élevé de pouvoir se défendre.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Bien.

Oprah Winfrey : I can push back without feeling like I’m going to be harmed is an important part of this phase of the movement. Yeah but we’re on our way. We’re on our way to something bigger. But you know what. It’s what’s even more important. The sexual harassment sexual assault.

Oprah Winfrey : Just like I was accused of I’m sure I don’t know if you were accused or not because I didn’t follow it that closely but I had people online saying Oh you knew I knew about Harvey. I should have known. Well the first of all I wasn’t in this world.

Oprah Winfrey : I was in Chicago and my own little world. But my point is this. So what I knew about Harvey was that Harvey was a bully and that if Harvey’s on the phone you didn’t want to take the call because you’re going to get bullied in some way. For me it just meant pushing for some people to be on the show that I didn’t want to and I’ve already done it and how many more times we need to do so. That’s all I knew about Harvey and was friendly with Harvey.

Oprah Winfrey : Yes I was friendly with Harvey was I you know in association with him for you know the the butler movie that we had done. Yes I was but of course I didn’t know any of this was going on.

Oprah Winfrey : Mais ce que je sais, c'est que ce que ce moment est là pour nous montrer, ce que je remets en question pour moi-même, c'est que j'étais prêt à supporter l'intimidation.

Oprah Winfrey : I was willing to put up with. ok I’ll take the call. ok I’ll be another. ok I’ll do that. And so it’s caused me to question and I think this movement will eventually lead us to is not accepting any kind of behavior that disparages you as a human being period.

Oprah Winfrey : You know why am I willing to be. Why am I willing to put up with an asshole. The big question is who will accept you as an asshole but we won’t tolerate other things but you can throw phones and you can call people you jerks and you can do all the nasty stuff but we’re willing to put up with.

Oprah Winfrey : So I’m hoping it leads us to a better way of all human beings treating each other and that this moment this moment in the movement is leading us towards that saying not only am I not going to take your sexual harassment I’m not going to take any of your bullshit. Period. You know I think we’re on our way there. I think we’re but as I said we’re figuring it out.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Et quand vous étiez actrice, vous avez vécu ça ou c'était seulement dans la salle de rédaction ? Comme si vous aviez une réponse à une sorte de début de carrière.

Oprah Winfrey : No. Because you know why. I mean just as you became Gwyneth Paltrow when you have the power to speak up for yourself. He’s not going to say anything to me.

Gwyneth Paltrow : I didn’t when he did it to me. No I wasn’t. Gwyneth Paltrow Yeah. Yeah. And that’s what was so.

Oprah Winfrey : Alors laissez-moi vous demander si vous avez été déclenché par tout ça quand ça a commencé à sortir. Y avait-il une partie de vous qui était comme "whoa" ?

Gwyneth Paltrow : Very and it’s been months of me trying to process through it all. I think that I came out about Harvey in the trajectory of the whole story and I didn’t feel safe to do it but I felt I had a responsibility to do it.

Gwyneth Paltrow : J'ai compris ce qui m'était arrivé et cela ne s'est produit qu'une seule fois. Je l'ai confronté et il n'a plus jamais essayé de faire ça. Mais c'était un tyran. Donc à propos des choses du travail, il me faisait honte. Il était vraiment dur avec moi. Et puis il était incroyablement généreux et m'envoyait un avion privé quelque part et c'était une sorte de relation abusive typique.

Gwyneth Paltrow : And I don’t think that I have even. I hadn’t started to process through because so much of my acting career and so many of the incredible highs and lows as well were associated with him and Miramax and you know I’ve had to it’s brought up a lot of stuff lately a lot of abuse from my own childhood that I haven’t reconciled which is why I was asking you about that and then it’s all kind of you know when you have these moments in your life where there’s all these confluence of events and I started to think gosh I wonder if that’s why I stepped away from acting really when I had my child because I had always told myself the story I lost the passion for it.

Gwyneth Paltrow : I’m not sure why my daughter and I wanted to be home. And now I’m sort of trying to put the pieces together and think did this predominant relationship in my professional life. Lead me to not want to do it anymore.

Oprah Winfrey : Ça a certainement eu une influence. Je veux dire que vous savez, pour en revenir à toute cette histoire d'énergie et de vibrations, vous savez ce que vous ressentez quand vous devez être dans un espace avec quelqu'un qui agite la force. Et ce que cela signifie de devoir travailler avec ça.

Oprah Winfrey : And you reach a point in your life where you think I don’t want to have to deal with that. I do know that that’s how I felt every time I had to be like. You had to get on the phone with you got to be around you had to deal with that.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Ouais.

Oprah Winfrey : So I’m sure that that is a component an element of it. Because if it was a purely joyful experience where you just get to open up and be your full self all the time who doesn’t want to embrace that. If there’s no agitation and negative energy then there’s some dark side stuff in there.

Oprah Winfrey : And so when I feel safe you know that’s why when we talk about speaking up I’m talking about particularly for children because you can tell someone until someone then I mean I’ve done so many entretiens with kids who told and then they were kicked out of the house and they were abandoned and they were. So you got to find the place where you feel safe.

Oprah Winfrey : That’s why this moment in time where women who didn’t know what was going to happen had the courage. That’s what courage is courage is that moment when you you’re scared but you leave anyway. You’re scared but you’re going to stand out there anyway. You’re going to say it anyway because you’ve had enough. Now you’ve had enough.

Gwyneth Paltrow : And also I had enough for potentially my daughter this whole next generation of women. I just thought this is not this is not us anymore. We can’t do this anymore.

Oprah Winfrey : What I do know for sure what I do believe really in the deepest part of my spirit is that our daughters your daughter my girls. Oh no no no. Now they are not going this way. Oh no child no. I see my girls now. It is just not going take it. They’re like what you let somebody say that to you when you are 22.

Oprah Winfrey : Yeah I did. In order to keep my job and I would try to walk around the other way and hold my head down at the desk into that. That is not going to happen that’s over that’s over.

Oprah Winfrey : Donc, dans "Wrinkle In Time".

Oprah Winfrey : Ah oui ?

Gwyneth Paltrow : Vous jouez ?

Gwyneth Paltrow : I play Mrs. which I didn’t grow up with the book. You didn’t grow up with the book.

Gwyneth Paltrow : I don’t know anything about it.

Oprah Winfrey : So it’s the story of this wonderful adventure of this young girl who father is a scientist and has been experiencing with how to touch hands with the universe and ends up being zapped out into outer space and she loses her father and he’s been missing for four years. And these three angelic forces come to help her find her father who is out there.

Oprah Winfrey : And being taken over by the dark side. And it’s her journey to find her father. But the journey is also about discovering herself and learning to look at herself as an empowered being, girl in school where kids are teasing you and all that.

Oprah Winfrey : So it’s about that and I get to play the wise Mrs. W H I C H and Reese is Mrs. Whatsit and Mindy Reese Witherspoon and Mindy Callum is Mrs. who. So there are the three wise women who help her along the journey.

Oprah Winfrey : And mine is a millennial force who is a combination for me in my mind of my two favorite mentors Glenda the Good Witch and Maya Angelou. So it’s the embodiment of the wisdom of Maya and the magic of Glenda. And you know it’s opening in a couple of days.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Alors pourquoi tu as dit oui.

Oprah Winfrey : J'ai dit oui parce qu'Ava DuVernay est une cinéaste visionnaire que j'avais appris à connaître après avoir tourné The Butler avec David Oyelowo qui m'a remis un DVD de son film Middle of Nowhere.

Oprah Winfrey : I watched the movie I liked the movie. She shot the movie made the movie with 200,000 hours and I googled her. I saw this lovely woman in dreads with her glasses pretty warm brown face smiling I thought I’m going to be your friend. I’m going to be her friend. And I ended up having a luncheon here just so I could meet her. I had a Mother’s Day luncheon and said everybody bring your mother just so I could meet her. Because I wasn’t going I wasn’t going like call and going be your friend.

Oprah Winfrey : And we started talking I ended up going on as a producer for Salma and I just I feel about her the way I believe Maya felt about me. She’s this this young visionary who has lots of things to say in the world.

Oprah Winfrey : Et je peux sentir son essence, son esprit qui s'élève dans ses capacités de directeur et ses capacités de défenseur. Et je le veux, je l'ai voulu. Je veux la soutenir de toutes les manières possibles.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Et elle a besoin de toi ?

Oprah Winfrey : And she doesn’t need me. But we’ve become really good friends so this is a thing that happened. She was talking about this movie she was doing and I said oh well you know you’re going to be filming in New Zealand? I want to come. I am going to take two weeks off and I’m going to come to New Zealand because I’ve been there before and I didn’t really get to explore. So I’m going to come to New Zealand I’m going to watch you film and just hang out.

Oprah Winfrey : And she said well if you’re going to do that I wanted to ask you Would you read it for this role of Mrs Which would you would you. Why don’t you just act?

Oprah Winfrey : And I said All right I’ll take a look at it. And when I read it I thought well I am Mrs Which we’re you’re going to get to play Mrs Which which I think I am Mrs Which. And so that’s that’s that’s how it came to be.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Do you like acting? You’re really really good at it.

Oprah Winfrey : Eh bien, merci.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Je vous aime en tant qu'actrice.

Oprah Winfrey : I don’t feel that I’m great at it I don’t feel that I.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Vraiment ?

Oprah Winfrey : No I really don’t.

Gwyneth Paltrow : La Couleur Pourpre ?

Oprah Winfrey : J'ai trouvé que j'étais génial dans La Couleur Pourpre, tu sais, parce que j'étais porté par la passion.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Tu es si bon dans ce film.

Oprah Winfrey : La Couleur Pourpre est la meilleure histoire sur terre. Je veux dire que je n'ai jamais rien voulu de plus que La couleur pourpre et que c'est l'incarnation de la possibilité de permettre à quelque chose d'entrer dans votre vie. Je n'ai jamais rien gagné de plus que ce que je voulais avec La couleur pourpre et je ne me suis jamais permis de vouloir quelque chose à ce point parce que je sais comment ne pas le vouloir à ce point.

Oprah Winfrey : I know that when you want it so badly that you hurt for it that you’re not going to get it that it’s only through the disallowing of it. When I learned this lesson that not to hold anything too tightly don’t hold anything too tightly. Just wish for want it let it come from the intention of real truth for you.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Et puis, laisse tomber.

Oprah Winfrey : And if it’s supposed to be yours it will show up and it won’t show up until you stop holding it so tightly. And that’s the way you live your life. And that’s my deep prayer for everyone who’s listening to us that the forces that we call God, nature, universal energy, Divine Light by every name that is called God in the universe. My prayer is that that force field holds you in the palm of its hands and never squeezes you too tightly.

Gwyneth Paltrow : C'est incroyable de voir cette chose à nouveau.

Oprah Winfrey : Hé hé hé hé. Hey hey. Podcast. Goopity Goop Goop. Podcast Goopity Goop. Nous l'avons fait. Goop on Goop on Goop on. Hey hey.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Ça a été l'un des plus grands honneurs de ma vie de vous parler.

Oprah Winfrey : Merci de le dire.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Je t'adore.

Gwyneth Paltrow : Thank you for joining my conversation with Oprah. I trust you already have regular doses of Oprah in your life. Whether you are a diva Titta O magazine Oprah.com is your home page you’re reading her latest book in your book club still watching her Golden Globe speech on repeat or planning to see A Wrinkle In Time seven times.

Gwyneth Paltrow : J'espère que le fait de l'entendre aujourd'hui a ajouté à la magie, ce sera longtemps un moment fort pour moi. Si vous avez aimé ce que vous avez entendu, abonnez-vous et dites-le à vos amis. A la semaine prochaine.

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