ПОЛНЫЙ ТРАНСКРИПТ: Демократические первичные дебаты 2019 года - вечер 1

Демократические первичные дебаты - вечер 1 стенограмма, предоставленная Sonix - лучшим сервисом транскрипции видео в текст

Демократические первичные дебаты - вечер 1" была автоматически расшифрована компанией Sonix с помощью новейших алгоритмов преобразования звука в текст. Данная расшифровка может содержать ошибки. Sonix - лучший способ конвертировать видео в текст в 2019 году.

Дана Бэш:
Time now for opening statements. You’ll each receive one minute? Governor Steve Bullock, please begin.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
Thanks, Dana. I come from a state where a lot of people voted for Donald Trump. Let’s not kid ourselves. He will be hard to beat. Yet watching that last debate, folks seem more concerned about scoring points or outdoing each other with wish-list economics than making sure Americans know we hear their voices and will help their lives.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
Look, I’m a pro-choice, pro-union Populist Democrat that won three elections in a red state, not by compromising our values, but by getting stuff done. That’s how we win back the places we lost – showing up, listening, focusing on the challenges of everyday Americans. That farmer getting hit right now by Trump’s trade wars, that teacher working a second job just to afford her insulin, they can’t wait for a revolution. Their problems are in the here and now. I’m a Progressive, emphasis on progress, and I’m running for president to get stuff done for all those Americans Washington has left behind.

Дана Бэш:
Марианна Уильямсон.

Марианна Уильямсон:
Thank you. In 1776, our founders brought forth on this planet an extraordinary new possibility. It was the idea that people, no matter who they were, would simply have the possibility of thriving. We have not ever totally actualized this ideal, but at the times when we have done best, we have tried. And when forces have opposed them, generations of Americans have risen up and pushed back against those forces. We did that with abolition, and with women’s suffrage, and with civil rights.

Марианна Уильямсон:
Now, it is time for a generation of Americans to rise up again, for an amoral economic system has turned short-term profits for huge multinational corporations into a false god. This new false god takes precedence over the safety, and the health, and the well-being of we, the American people, and the people of the world, and the planet on which we live. Conventional politics will not solve this problem because conventional politics is part of the problem. We, the American people, must rise up, and do what we do best, and create a new possibility. Say no to what we don’t want and yes to what we know can be true. I’m Marianne Williamson, and that’s why I’m running for president.

Дана Бэш:
Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
Folks, we have a choice. We can go down the road that Senator Sanders and Senator Warren want to take us with bad policies like Medicare for All, free, everything, and impossible promises that’ll turn off independent voters and get Trump re-elected. That’s what happened with McGovern. That’s what happened with Mondale. That’s what happened with Dukakis. Or we can nominate someone with new ideas to create universal healthcare for every American with choice; someone who wants to unify our country, and grow the economy, and create jobs everywhere. Then we win the White House.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
I’m the product of the American dream. I believe in it. I’m the grandson of immigrants, the son of a construction worker. My wife, April, and I have four amazing daughters. I was the youngest CEO in the history of New York Stock Exchange, created thousands of jobs, and then served in Congress. That’s the type of background, and my platform is about real solutions, not impossible promises that can beat Trump and govern. Thank you,

Дана Бэш:
Конгрессмен Тим Райан.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
America is great, but not everyone can access America’s greatness. The systems that were built to lift us up are now suffocating the American people. The economic system that used to create $30-, $40-, $50-an-hour jobs that you could have a good solid middle-class living now force us to have two or three jobs just to get by. Most families, when they go to sit at the kitchen table to do their bills, they get a pit in the middle of their stomach. We deserve better.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
The political system is broken, too, because the entire conversation is about left or right – where’re you at on the political system? I’m here to say this isn’t about left or right, this is about new and better. And it’s not about reforming old systems, it’s about building new systems. Tonight, I will offer solutions that are bold, that are realistic, and that are a clean break from the past.

Дана Бэш:
Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
Last year, Democrats flipped 40 Republican seats in the House and not one of those 40 Democrats supported the policies of our front runners at center stage. Now I share their progressive values, but I’m a little more pragmatic. I was out of work for two whole years until I started what became the largest brewpub in America. I learned the small, best- small business lessons of how to provide service, and teamwork, and became a top mayor, and as Governor of Colorado, became the number-one economy in the country. We also expanded healthcare and reproductive rights. We attacked climate change head on. We beat the NRA. We did not build massive government expansions.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
Some will promise a bill tonight, or a plan for tonight. What we focused on was making sure that we got people together to get things done, to provide solutions to problems, to make sure that we worked together and created jobs. That’s how we’re gonna beat Donald Trump. That’s how we’re gonna win Michigan and the country.

Дана Бэш:
Сенатор Эми Клобучар.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Let’s get real. Tonight we debate, but ultimately, we have to beat Donald Trump. My background, it’s a little different than his. I stand before you today as the granddaughter of an iron ore miner, as the daughter of a union teacher, and a newspaperman, as a first woman elected to the U.S. Senate from the State of Minnesota, and a candidate for president of the United States. That’s because we come from a country of shared dreams.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
I have had it with the racist attacks. I have had it with a president that says one thing on TV that has your back, and then you get home, and you see those charges for prescription drugs, and cable, and college. You’re gonna hear a lot of promises up here, but I’m gonna tell you this – yes, I have bold ideas, but they are grounded in reality, and yes, I will make some simple promises. I can win this. I’m from the Midwest, and I have won every race, every place, every time. I will govern with integrity, the integrity worthy of the extraordinary people of this nation.

Дана Бэш:
Congressman Beto O’Rourke.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
I’m running for president because I believe that America discovers its greatness at its moments of greatest need. This moment will define us forever, and I believe that in this test, America will be redeemed. In the face of cruelty and fear from a lawless president, we will choose to be the nation that stands up for the human rights of everyone, for the rule of law – for everyone – and a democracy that serves everyone.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
Какими бы ни были наши разногласия, мы знаем, что прежде всего мы - американцы, и мы обеспечим каждому из нас достаточное благосостояние, образование и зарплату, чтобы полностью реализовать свой потенциал. Мы будем решать эти задачи здесь, дома, и мы будем лидировать в мире в решении тех задач, которые стоят перед нами за рубежом, успешно противостоя бесконечной войне и изменению климата. В этот момент истины давайте выполним наше национальное обещание и создадим более совершенный союз всех, для всех и каждого.

Дана Бэш:
Мэр Пит Баттиджиг.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
I’m running for president because our country is running out of time. It is even bigger than the emergency of the Trump presidency. Ask yourself how somebody like Donald Trump ever gets within cheating distance of the Oval Office in the first place. It doesn’t happen unless America is already in a crisis. An economy that’s not working for everyone. Endless war. Climate change. We have lived this in my industrial Midwestern hometown. My generation has lived this as long as we have been alive, and it’s only accelerating.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Science tells us we have 12 years before we reach the horizon of catastrophe, when it comes to our climate. By 2030, the average house in this country will cost half a million bucks, and a woman’s right to choose may not even exist. We are not going to be able to meet this moment by recycling the same arguments, policies, and politicians that have dominated Washington for as long as I have been alive. We’ve got to summon the courage to walk away from the past and do something different. This is our shot. That is why I’m running for president.

Дана Бэш:
Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Donald Trump disgraces the office of Presidents every single day. Anyone on this stage tonight or tomorrow night would be a far better president. I promise, no matter who our candidate is, I will work my heart out to beat Donald Trump and to elect a Democratic Congress. But our problems didn’t start with Donald Trump. Donald Trump is part of a corrupt, rigged system that has helped the wealthy, and the well-connected and kicked dirt in the faces of everyone else.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
We’re not gonna solve the urgent problems that we face with small ideas and spinelessness. We’re gonna solve them by being the Democratic Party of big structural change. We need to be the party that fights for our democracy and our economy to work for everyone. I know what’s broken in this country, I know how to fix it, and I will fight to make it happen.

Дана Бэш:
Сенатор Берни Сандерс.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Сегодня в Америке, пока мы говорим, 87 миллионов американцев не застрахованы или недостаточно застрахованы, но индустрия здравоохранения в прошлом году получила прибыль в сто миллиардов долларов. Сегодня, пока мы говорим, прямо сейчас 500 000 американцев ночуют на улице, и при этом такие компании, как Amazon, получившие миллиардные прибыли, не заплатили ни цента федерального подоходного налога. Сегодня половина американского народа живет от зарплаты до зарплаты, и все же 49 процентов всех новых доходов достаются одному верхнему проценту.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Tonight, the fossil fuel industry continues to receive hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies and tax breaks while they destroy this planet. We have got to take on Trump’s racism, his sexism, xenophobia and come together in an unprecedented grassroots movement to not only defeat Trump, but to transform our economy and our government.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Senator Sanders. Let’s start the debate with the number-one issue for Democratic voters – healthcare. Senator Sanders let’s start with you. You support Medicare for All, which would eventually take private health insurance away from more than 150 million Americans in exchange for government-sponsored healthcare for everyone. Congressman Delaney just referred to it as bad policy, and previously, he has called the idea political suicide that will just get President Trump re-elected. What do you say to Congressman Delaney?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
You’re wrong. Right now, we have a dysfunctional healthcare system – 87 million uninsured or underinsured; 500,000 Americans every year going bankrupt because of medical bills; 30,000 people dying while the healthcare industry makes tens of billions of dollars in profit.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Five minutes away from here, John, is a country. It’s called Canada. They guarantee healthcare to every man, woman, and child as a human right. They spend half of what we spend. By the way, when you end up in a hospital in Canada, you come out with no bill at all. Healthcare is a human right, not a privilege. I believe that. I will fight for that.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор Сандерс. Конгрессмен Дилейни?

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
Well, I’m right about this. We can create a universal healthcare system to give everyone basic healthcare for free, and I have a proposal to do it, but we don’t have to go around and be the party of subtraction and telling half the country who has private health insurance that their health insurance is illegal. My dad, the union electrician, loved the healthcare he got from the IBEW. He would never want someone to take that away. Half of Medicare beneficiaries now have Medicare Advantage, which is private insurance or supplemental plans. It’s also bad policy. It’ll underfund the industry. Many hospitals will close-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмены. Сенатор Сандерс, я хотел...

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Итак, мое имя также было упомянуто в этом...

Джейк Таппер:
-we’re gonna come to you in one second but let me go to Senator Sanders right now. Senator Sanders?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Дело в том, что десятки миллионов людей теряют медицинскую страховку каждый год, когда они меняют работу или их работодатель меняет страховку. Если вы хотите стабильности в системе здравоохранения, если вы хотите систему, которая дает вам свободу выбора врача или больницы, которая не разорит вас, ответ заключается в том, чтобы избавиться от наживы фармацевтических компаний.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
-и страховые компании.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сэр [перекрестный разговор]

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
-и перейти к программе "Медикер для всех".

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
But now he’s talking about a different issue. What I’m talking about is really simple. We should deal with the tragedy of the uninsured and give everyone healthcare as a right, but why do we gotta be the party of taking something away from people?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Никто не является партией [перекрестный разговор]

Джейк Таппер:
Подождите секунду, сенатор...

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
That’s what they’re running on-

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Нет!

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
They’re running on telling half the country that your health insurance is illegal. It says it right in the bill-

Джейк Таппер:
Хорошо, спасибо...

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
We don’t have to do that. We can give everyone healthcare and allow people to have choice. That’s the American way.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Смотрите -

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмен. Сенатор Уоррен?

So, look, let’s be clear about this. We are the Democrats. We are not about trying to take away healthcare from anyone. That’s what the Republicans are trying to do. We should stop using Republican talking points in order to talk with each other about how to best provide that healthcare. Now, I want to have a chance to tell the story about my friend Eddie Barkan. Eddie is 35 years old. He has a wife, Rachel. He has a cute little boy named Carl. He also has ALS, and it’s killing him. Eddie has health insurance; good health insurance, and-

Джейк Таппер:
Senator … I’m coming right- I’m staying with you. I’m staying with you, but you exceeded your time. Let me just stay with you on Medicare for All.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Хорошо.

Джейк Таппер:
At the last debate, you said you’re, “with Bernie on Medicare for All.” Now, Senator Sanders has said that people in the middle class will pay more in taxes to help pay for Medicare for All, though that will be offset by the elimination of insurance premiums and other costs. Are you also, “with Bernie on Medicare for All,” when it comes to raising taxes on middle-class Americans to pay for it?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
So, giant corporations and billionaires are going to pay more; middle class families are going to pay less out of pocket for their healthcare. I’d like to finish talking about Eddie, the guy who has ALS- this isn’t funny. This is somebody who has health insurance, and he’s dying. Every month, he has about $9,000 in medical bills that his insurance company won’t cover. His wife, Rachel, is on the phone for hours, and hours, and hours, begging the insurance company, “Please cover what the doctors say he needs.” He talks about what it’s like to go online with thousands of other people to beg friends, family, and strangers for money so he can cover his medical expenses. The basic profit model of an insurance company is take in as much money as you can in premiums and pay out as little as possible in healthcare coverage. That is not working for Americans across this country-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо... спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Medicare for All will fix that, and that’s why I’ll fight for it.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор. Просто уточнение и 15 дополнительных секунд - вы бы повысили налоги для среднего класса, чтобы оплатить "Медикэр для всех", компенсируя, очевидно, отмену страховых взносов, да или нет?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Расходы вырастут для миллиардеров и увеличатся для корпораций. Для семей среднего класса расходы - общие расходы - снизятся [перекрестный разговор].

Джейк Таппер:
Губернатор Баллок, я хочу пригласить вас. Вы не поддерживаете программу "Медикер для всех". Как вы ответите сенатору Уоррен?

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
No. Healthcare is so personal to all of us. Never forget when my 12-year-old son had a heart attack within 24 hours of his life; had to be life flighted to Salt Lake City. But because we had good insurance, he’s here with me tonight. At the end of the day, I’m not gonna support any plan that rips away quality healthcare from individuals. This is an example of wish-list economics. It used to be just Republicans wanted to repeal and replace. Now, many Democrats do, as well. We can get there with a public option, negotiated drug prices, indeed-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, губернатор Баллок. Я хочу пригласить мэра Баттиджига по вопросу о том, должен ли средний класс платить более высокие налоги в обмен на гарантированное здравоохранение и отмену страховых взносов. Как вы ответите, мэр?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
So, we don’t have to stand up here speculating about whether the public option will be better than- or a Medicare for All environment will be better than the corporate options. We can put it to the test. That’s the concept of my ‘Medicare for All Who Want It’ proposal. That way, if people like me are right that the public alternative is going to be not only more comprehensive, but more affordable than any of the corporate options around there, we’ll see Americans walk away from the corporate options into that Medicare option, and it will become Medicare for All [cross talk] without us having to kick anybody off of their insurance-

Джейк Таппер:
Всего 15 секунд на уточнение. Вы готовы повысить налоги на американцев среднего класса, чтобы обеспечить всеобщее покрытие с исчезновением страховых взносов, да или нет?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
I think you can buy into it. That’s the idea of ‘Medicare for All Who Want It.’ Look, this is a distinction without a difference, whether you’re paying the same money in the form of taxes or premiums. In this country, if you have health coverage … If you don’t have healthcare coverage, you’re paying too much for care, and if you do have health coverage, you’re paying too much for care-

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Mayor Buttigieg. I want to bring in Congressman O’Rourke on the topic of whether the middle class should pay higher taxes in exchange for universal coverage and the elimination of insurance premiums. What’s your response?

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
The answer is no. The middle class will not pay more in taxes in order to ensure that every American is guaranteed world-class healthcare. I think we’re being offered a false choice; some who want to improve the Affordable Care Act at the margins; others who want a Medicare for All program that will force people off of private insurance. I have a better path – Medicare for America. Everyone who is uninsured is enrolled in Medicare tomorrow. Those who are insufficiently insured [cross talk]

Джейк Таппер:
Конгрессмен -

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
-зарегистрированы в программе Medicare-

Джейк Таппер:
Только до 15 секунд...

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
-и те, кто имеет страховку, оплачиваемую работодателем [перекрестный разговор]

Джейк Таппер:
Кто здесь предлагает ложный выбор?

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
Jake, this is important. You have some- Governor Bullock, who’s said that we will improve the Affordable Care Act at the margins with a public option. You have others to my right, who are talking about taking away people’s choice for the private insurance they have, or members of unions … I was listening to [cross talk]

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмен.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
-Тейлор в Неваде. Его члены [перекрестный разговор]

Джейк Таппер:
-Позвольте мне пригласить губернатора Баллока, он только что [перекрестный разговор]

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
-want the healthcare they’re offering up for [cross talk]

Джейк Таппер:
-he just said you’re offering a false choice, sir.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
Congressman, not at all. It took us decades of false starts to get the Affordable Care Act. So, let’s actually build on it – a public option allowing anyone to buy in. We pay more for prescription drugs than any place, actually, in the world. We’ve got nothing to show for it. Negotiate prescription drug prices, end surprise medical billings. That’s the way that we can get there without disrupting the lives of 160 million people to elect their employer-sponsored health insurance.

Джейк Таппер:
Congressman O’Rourke, you can respond.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
Every estimate that I’ve seen of expanding ACA, even through a public option, still leaves millions of people uninsured and also means that people are not guaranteed the healthcare that they need, as the examples that Senator Warren showed us. Our plan ensures that everyone is enrolled in Medicare or can keep their employer-sponsored insurance. When we listened to the American people, and this is what they want us to do – they want everyone covered, but they want to be able to maintain choice-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмен.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
-и наш план это делает.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмен. Я хочу пригласить сенатора Клобучар. Сенатор Уоррен в начале вечера сказала, что демократы не могут принести... не могут завоевать Белый дом с помощью мелких идей и бесхребетности. На последних дебатах она сказала, что у политиков, которые не поддерживают программу "Медикер для всех", просто нет желания бороться за нее. Вы не поддерживаете программу "Медикер для всех". Сенатор Уоррен права? Вам просто не хватает желания бороться за нее?

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
That is incorrect. I just have a better way to do this. In one of my first debates, Jake, I was called a street fighter from the Iron Range by my opponent. When she said it, I said thank you. This is what I think we need to get done. We need the public option. That’s what Barack Obama wanted, and it would bring healthcare costs down for everyone.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
By the way, I just don’t buy this. I’ve heard some of these candidates say that it’s somehow not moral if you- not moral to not have that public option. Well, Senator Sanders was actually on a public option bill last year, and that was, Bernie, the Medicaid public option bill that Senator Schatz introduced. Clearly this is the easiest way to move forward quickly, and I wanna get things done. People can’t wait. I’ve got my friend Nicole out there, whose son actually died trying to ration his insulin, as a restaurant manager. He died because he didn’t have enough money to pay for it. Bernie and I have worked on pharmaceutical issues together-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
-и мы сможем получать менее дорогие лекарства.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Как автор...

Джейк Таппер:
Senator Sanders- I’m going to go to Senator Sanders, then Senator Warren, because you both were mentioned. Senator Sanders?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
As the author … As the author of the Medicare Bill, let me clear up one thing. As people talk about having insurance, there are millions of people who have insurance. They can’t go to the doctor, and when they come out of the hospital, they go bankrupt. All right? What I am talking about and others up here are talking about is no deductibles and no copayments. Jake, your question is a Republican talking point. At the end of the day … By the way, and by the way … By the way, the healthcare industry will be advertising tonight on this program.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Senator. Senator Warren, it’s your turn.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
О, могу ли я завершить это, пожалуйста?

Джейк Таппер:
Ваше время истекло. 30 секунд.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Сегодня вечером они будут рекламироваться с этим тезисом.

Джейк Таппер:
Сенатор Уоррен.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
So, we have to think of this in terms of the big frame. What’s the problem in Washington? It works great for the wealthy. It works great for those who can hire armies of lobbyists and lawyers. And it keeps working great for the insurance companies and the drug companies. What it’s going to take is real courage to fight back against them. These insurance companies do not have a God-given right to make $23 billion dollars in profits and suck it out of our healthcare system.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
У них нет данного Богом права...

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Неизвестный:
На восьмой странице законопроекта говорится, что [перекрестный разговор]

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
-установить формы [перекрестный разговор]

Джейк Таппер:
Я хочу позволить конгрессмену Дилейни...

Неизвестный:
-это лишит всех страховки [перекрестный разговор]

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
чтобы люди не могли - они хотят отказать в страховом покрытии.

Джейк Таппер:
-Спасибо, сенатор. Если бы мы все могли придерживаться правил времени, это было бы замечательно. Конгрессмен Дилейни?

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
So, I was the only- I’m the only one on the stage who actually has experience in the healthcare business, and with all due respect, I don’t think my colleagues understand the business. We have the public option-

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
It’s not a business-

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
-which is great. The public option is great, but it doesn’t go far enough. It doesn’t go far enough. I’m proposing universal healthcare, where everyone gets healthcare, as a basic human right, for free, but they have choices. My plan, ‘Better Care,’ is fully paid for without raising middle-class tax options. So, when we think about this debate-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмен.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
-there’s Medicare for All, which-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмен.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
-это крайность.

Джейк Таппер:
I wanna bring in Governor [cross talk] I wanna bring in Governor Hickenlooper. Governor Hickenlooper, I’d like to hear what you have to say about Senator Warren’s suggestion that those people on the stage who are not in favor of Medicare for All lack the political will to fight for it.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
Ну, очевидно, я не согласен с этим, как бы я ни уважал обоих сенаторов справа от меня. Знаете, я думаю, что все сводится к вопросу о том, что американцы привыкли иметь возможность выбора; иметь право принимать решение. И я думаю, что предложение общественного варианта, позволяющего использовать некую форму Medicare, которая может быть комбинацией Medicare Advantage и Medicare, но люди выбирают ее... Если достаточно людей выбирают ее, она расширяется. Качество улучшается, стоимость снижается, больше людей выбирают его. В конечном итоге, через 15 лет, вы можете прийти к этому, но это будет эволюция, а не революция".

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, губернатор. Сенатор Уоррен?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
You know, we have tried this experiment with the insurance companies. And what they’ve done is they’ve sucked billions of dollars out of our healthcare system and they’ve forced people to have to fight to try to get the healthcare coverage that their doctors and nurses say that they need. Why does everybody- why does every doctor, why does every hospital have to fill out so many complicated forms? It’s because it gives insurance companies a chance to say no and to push that cost back on the patient-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор Уоррен.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
-that’s what we have to fight.

Джейк Таппер:
-I wanna bring in Marianne Williamson. Ms. Williamson, how do you respond to the criticism from Senator Warren that you’re not willing to fight for Medicare for All?

Марианна Уильямсон:
I don’t know if Senator Warren said that about me specifically. I admire very much what Senator Warren has said, and what Bernie has said, but I have to say, I have a … I’m normally way over there with Bernie and Elizabeth on this one. I hear the others. I have some concern about that, as well. And I do have concern about what the Republicans would say, and that’s not just a Republican talking point. I do have concern that it will be difficult. I have concern that it will make it harder to win. And I have a concern that it will make it harder to govern, because if that’s our big fight-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, мисс Уильямсон.

Марианна Уильямсон:
-Тогда республиканцы закроют нам все остальное.

Джейк Таппер:
I’m gonna bring in Mayor Buttigieg. Mayor, Buttigieg, your response?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
It is time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say. Look, if it’s true that if we embrace a far-left agenda, they’re gonna say we’re a bunch of crazy socialists. If we embrace a conservative agenda, you know what they’re gonna do? They’re gonna say we’re a bunch of crazy socialists. So, let’s just stand up for the right policy, go out there, and defend it. That’s the policy I’m putting forward. Not because I think it’s the right triangulation between Republicans here and Democrats here; because I think it’s the right answer for people like my mother-in-law, who is here, whose life was saved by the ACA, but who is still far too vulnerable to the fact that the insurance industry does not care about her-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, мэр Баттиджиг. Сенатор Сандерс, ваш ответ?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Let’s be clear what this debate is about. Nobody can defend the dysfunctionality of the current system. What we are taking on is the fact that over the last 20 years, the drug companies and the insurance companies have spent $4.5 billion of your health insurance money on lobbying and campaign contributions. That is why, when I went to Canada the other day, people paid one tenth the price in Canada for insulin-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
-that they’re paying in the United States.

Джейк Таппер:
Я хочу пригласить конгрессмена Тима Райана. Конгрессмен Райан, ваш ответ?

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
Here we are in Detroit, home of the United Auto Workers. We have all our union friends here tonight. This plan that’s being offered by Senator Warren and Senator Sanders will tell those union members who gave away wages in order to get good healthcare that they’re going to lose their healthcare because Washington’s gonna come in and tell them they’ve got a better plan. This is the left and right thing. New and better is this – move Medicare down the 50, allow people to buy in. Kaiser Permanente said that if those 60 million people do that, they will see a 40-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмен.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
-процентное сокращение расходов на здравоохранение. Пусть предприятия покупают, Джейк, и...

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Congressman. So, Senator, let’s talk about that. If Medicare for All is enacted, there are more than 600,000 union members here in Michigan who would be forced to give up their private healthcare plans. Now, I understand that it would provide universal coverage, but can you guarantee those union members that the benefits under Medicare for All will be as good as the benefits that their representatives, their union reps, fought hard to negotiate?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Ну, две вещи. Они будут лучше, потому что программа "Медикер для всех" является всеобъемлющей. Она покрывает все потребности пожилых людей в медицинском обслуживании. В нее, наконец, войдут стоматологическая помощь, слуховые аппараты и очки...

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
But you don’t know-

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Второй из всех -

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
You don’t know that, Bernie.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Second of all [cross talk] I do know, and I wrote the damned bill. Second of all, second of all, many of our union brothers and sisters – nobody wore pro-union than me up here – are now paying high deductibles and copayments. And when we do Medicare for All, instead of having the company putting money into healthcare, they can get decent wage increases, which they’re not getting today [cross talk]

Джейк Таппер:
Я хочу пригласить конгрессмена Райана, чтобы он ответил на слова сенатора Сандерса.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
I mean, Senator Sanders does not know all of the union contracts in the United States. I’m trying to explain that these union members are losing their jobs. Their wages have been stagnant. The world is crumbling around them. The only thing they have is possibly really good healthcare. And the Democratic message is gonna be, “We’re gonna go in, and the only thing you have left, we’re gonna take it, and we’re gonna do better.” I do not think that’s a recipe for success for us. It’s bad policy, and it’s certainly bad politics.

Джейк Таппер:
Конгрессмен Дилейни?

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
Таким образом, законопроект, подготовленный сенатором Сандерсом, по определению снизит качество медицинского обслуживания, поскольку в нем конкретно говорится, что тарифы будут такими же, как нынешние тарифы Medicare. А данные очевидны: Medicare не покрывает расходы на здравоохранение. Она покрывает 80 процентов расходов на здравоохранение в этой стране, а частное страхование покрывает 120 процентов.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
So, if you start underpaying all the healthcare providers, you’re gonna create a two-tier market where wealthy people buy their healthcare with cash, and the people who are forced, like my dad, the union electrician, who will have that healthcare plan taken away from him-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмен.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
-они будут вынуждены участвовать в системе с недостаточным финансированием.

Джейк Таппер:
Я хочу дать сенатору Сандерсу возможность ответить.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
All right, on the Medicare for All, the hospitals will save substantial sums of money because they’re not gonna be spending a fortune doing billing and the other bureaucratic things that they have to do today-

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
I’ve done the math. It doesn’t add up.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Во-вторых... Возможно, вы делали это и зарабатывали деньги на здравоохранении, но наша задача - управлять некоммерческой системой здравоохранения. Более того, когда мы сэкономим $500 миллиардов в год, покончив со всеми этими невероятными сложностями, которые сводят с ума каждого американца, пытающегося иметь дело с компаниями медицинского страхования...

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
-больницы будут лучше, чем сегодня...

Джейк Таппер:
Конгрессмен Дилейни, я хочу дать вам возможность ответить.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
Listen, his math is wrong. That’s all I’m saying. If his math is wrong, it’s been well-documented that if all the bills were paid at Medicare rate, which is specifically – I think it’s in Section 1200 of their bill, then many hospitals in this country would close. I’ve been going around rural America, and I asked rural hospital administrators one question – if all your bills were paid at the Medicare rate last year, what would happen? They all look at me and say, “We would close.” But the question is why do we have to be so extreme? Why can’t we just give everyone healthcare as a right and allow them to have choice?

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, конгрессмен.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
I’m starting to think this is not about healthcare-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, конгрессмен.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
Это стратегия борьбы с частным сектором.

Дана Бэш:
Thank you, Congressman. We’re gonna move on- we’re gonna move on to the issue of immigration now. There is widespread agreement on this stage on the need for immigration reform, a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, including dreamers, but there are some areas of disagreement. Mayor Buttigieg, you’re in favor of getting rid of the law that makes it a crime to come across the U.S. border illegally. Why won’t that just encourage more illegal immigration?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
When I am president, illegally crossing the border will still be illegal. We can argue over the finer points of which parts of this ought to be handled by civil law, and which parts ought to be handled by criminal law, but we’ve got a crisis on our hands. And it’s not just a crisis of immigration, it’s a crisis of cruelty and incompetence that has created a humanitarian disaster on our southern border. It is a stain on the United States of America.

Americans want comprehensive immigration reform. And frankly, we’ve been talking about the same framework for my entire adult lifetime – protections for dreamers, making sure that that we have a pathway to citizenship for the undocumented, cleaning up lawful immigration. We know what to do. We know the border security can be part of that package, and we can still be a nation of laws. The problem is we haven’t had the will to get it done in Washington. And now, we have a president who could fix it in a month, because there is that bipartisan agreement, but he needs it to be a crisis rather than an achievement. That will end on my watch.

Дана Бэш:
Просто уточнение. Вы подняли руку на последних дебатах. Вы действительно хотите декриминализировать незаконное пересечение границы...

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
In my view, if fraud is involved, then that’s suitable for the criminal statute. If not, then it should be handled under civil law. But these show of hands are exactly what is wrong with the way that this race is being [cross talk]

Дана Бэш:
We’re not- we’re not doing that here.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Я ценю это.

Дана Бэш:
Congressman- thank you. Congressman O’Rourke, you live near the U.S.-Mexico border in El Paso. You disagree with Mayor Buttigieg on decriminalizing illegal border crossings. Please respond.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
Я хочу, потому что в моей администрации, после того, как мы отменим плату за гражданство для владельцев грин-карт, более девяти миллионов наших соотечественников, свободных мечтателей... Для многих страх депортации, и прекратим уголовное преследование семей и детей за поиски убежища и убежища, и коммерческое содержание под стражей в этой стране. Затем оказать помощь этим странам в Центральной Америке, чтобы ни одной семье никогда не пришлось проделать этот путь в 2000 миль. Затем я ожидаю, что люди, которые приезжают сюда, будут соблюдать наши законы, и мы оставляем за собой право привлекать их к уголовной ответственности, если они этого не делают.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, конгрессмен. Сенатор Уоррен, вы говорите, что положение о том, что незаконное пересечение границы считается преступлением, совершенно не нужно. Пожалуйста, ответьте.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
So, the problem is that, right now, the criminalization statute is what gives Donald Trump the ability to take children away from their parents. It’s what gives him the ability to lock up people at our borders. We need to continue to have border security and we can do that, but what we can’t do is not live our values. I’ve been down to the border. I have seen the mothers. I have seen the cages of babies. We must be a country that every day lives our values, and that means we cannot make-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор Уоррен, просто чтобы уточнить...

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
-преступление, когда кто-то приходит сюда.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор. Просто чтобы уточнить, вы бы декриминализировали незаконное пересечение границы?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Да. Дело не в криминализации. Это дало Дональду Трампу инструмент для разрушения семей.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор [перекрестный разговор] Губернатор Хикенлупер, ваш ответ?

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
No, I agree that we need secure borders. There’s no question about that. The frustration with what’s going on in Washington is they’re kicking the ball back and forth. Secure the borders; make sure whatever law we have doesn’t allow children to be snatched from their parents and put in cages. How hard can that be? We’ve got … I know, on the two debate nights, we’ve got 170 years of Washington experience. Somehow it seems like that should be fairly fixable.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Well, and one way to fix it is to decriminalize. That’s the whole point. What we’re looking for here is a way to take away the tools that Donald Trump has used-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор Уоррен.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
-разрушать семьи.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор Уоррен. Сенатор Клобучар, ваш ответ?

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
I would say there is the will to change this in Congress. What’s missing is the right person in the White House. I believe that immigrants don’t diminish America. They are America. And if you wanna do something about border security, you first of all change the rules, so people can seek asylum in those [inaudible] countries. Then, you pass the bill, and what the bill will do is it’ll rightly reduce the deficit and give us some money for border security, and for border- help processing the cases. Most of all, it will allow for a path to citizenship, because this is not just about the border. Donald Trump-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо...

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
-хочет использовать этих людей в качестве политических пешек-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор Клобучар.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
-когда по всей нашей стране есть люди, которые просто хотят работать и подчиняться закону.

Дана Бэш:
Thank you. Senator Sanders, you want to provide undocumented immigrants free healthcare and free college. Why won’t this drive even more people to come to the U.S. illegally?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Because we’ll have a strong border protection. But the main point I want to make is that what Trump is doing, through his racism and his xenophobia, is demonizing a group of people. And as president, I will end that demonization. If a mother and a child walk thousands of miles on a dangerous path, in my view, they are not criminals. They are people fleeing violence.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
I think the main thing that we’ve gotta do, among many others, and Beto made this point, we’ve got to ask ourselves, why are people walking 2,000 miles to a strange country where they don’t know the language? What we will do, the first week we are in the White House, is bring the entire hemisphere together to talk about how we rebuild Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador, so people do not have to flee their own country.

Дана Бэш:
Thank you- Thank you, Senator. Governor Bullock, about two-thirds of Democratic voters and many of your rivals here for the nomination support giving health insurance to undocumented immigrants. You haven’t gone that far. Why not?

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
Look, I think this is part of the discussion that shows how often these debates are detached from people’s lives. We’ve got 100,000 people showing up at the border right now. If we decriminalize entry, if we give healthcare to everyone, we’ll have multiples of that. Don’t take my word. That was President Obama’s Homeland Security Secretary that said that.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
The biggest problem right now that we have with immigration, it’s Donald Trump. He’s using immigration to not only rip apart families but rip apart this country. We can actually get to the point where we have safe borders, where we have a path to citizenship, where we have opportunities for dreamers, and you don’t have to decriminalize everything. What you have to do is have a president in there with the judgment and the decency to treat someone that comes to the border like one of our own.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
You know, I’d [cross talk] just like to add on this-

Дана Бэш:
Сенатор, он только что сказал, что ваш план нереален. Как вы ответите?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
You know, I think that what we have to do is we have to be an America that is clear about what we want to do with immigration. We need to expand legal immigration. We need to create a path for citizenship, not just for dreamers, but for grandmas and for people who have been working here in the farms and for students who have overstayed their visas. We need to fix the crisis at the border. And a big part of how we do that is we do not play into Donald Trump’s hands. He wants to stir up the crisis at the border, because that’s his overall message. “If there’s anything wrong in your life, blame them!”

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор Уоррен. Губернатор Баллок, ваш ответ.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
But you are playing into Donald Trump’s hands. The challenge isn’t that it’s a criminal offense to cross the border. The challenge is that Donald Trump is president and using this to rip families apart. A sane immigration system needs a sane leader, and we can do that without decriminalize providing healthcare for everyone. And it’s not me saying that. That’s Obama’s Homeland Security Secretary that said you’ll cause further problems at the border, not making it better.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
What you’re saying is ignore the law. Laws matter, and it matters if we say our law is that we will lock people up who come here seeking refuge, who come here seeking asylum. That is not a crime. As Americans, what we need to do is have a sane system that keeps us safe at the border, but does not criminalize the-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор Уоррен.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
деятельность матери, спасающейся бегством [перекрестный разговор]

Дана Бэш:
-Thank you. Congressman Ryan, are Senator Sanders’ proposals going to incentivize undocumented immigrants to come into this country illegally?

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
Yes. And right now, if you want to come into the country, you should at least ring the doorbell. We have asylum laws. I saw the kids up in Grand Rapids, not far from here. It is shameful what’s happening, but Donald Trump is doing it. Even if you decriminalize, which we should not do, you still have statutory authority. The president could still use his authority to separate families. So, we’ve got to get rid of Donald Trump. But you don’t decriminalize people just walking into the United States, if they’re seeking asylum. Of course, we want to welcome them. We’re a strong enough country to be able to welcome them. And as far as the healthcare goes, undocumented people can buy healthcare, too. I mean, everyone else in America is paying for their healthcare. I don’t think it’s a stretch for us to ask undocumented people in the country to also pay for healthcare.

Дана Бэш:
Сенатор Сандерс, ваш ответ?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Well, two things. A sane immigration policy moves to comprehensive immigration reform. It moves to a humane border policy in which, by the way, we have enough administrative judges, so that we don’t have incredible backlogs that we have right now. But to answer your question, I happen to believe that when I talk about healthcare as a human right, that applies to all people in this country, and under Medicare for All single-payer system, we could afford to do that.

Дана Бэш:
Сенатор Сандерс, спасибо, мисс Уильямсон, ваш ответ?

Марианна Уильямсон:
Everything that we’re talking about here tonight is what’s wrong with American politics. And the Democratic Party needs to understand that we should be the party that talks not just about symptoms, but also about causes. When we’re talking about healthcare, we need to talk about more than just the healthcare plan. We need to realize we have a sickness-care rather than a healthcare system. We need to be the party talking about why so many of our chemical policies, and our food policies, and our agricultural policies, and our environmental policies, and even our economic policies are leading to people getting sick to begin with-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо...

Марианна Уильямсон:
-that’s what the Democratic … But I want to say more about immi-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, мисс Уильямсон.

Марианна Уильямсон:
Okay, I hope you’ll come back to me this time.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, мисс Уильямсон. Продолжайте.

Дон Лемон:
Thank you, Miss Williamson. Let’s turn now to the issue of gun violence. There were three large-scale shootings this past weekend in America – at a park in Brooklyn, on the streets of Philadelphia, and one that left three dead and 12 injured at a food festival in Gilroy, California. Governor- excuse me, Mayor Buttigieg, other than offering words of comfort, what are you specifically going to do to stop this epidemic of gun violence?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Well, this epidemic of gun violence has hit my community, too, far too many times. It’s the worst part of being mayor, getting the phone call, consoling grieving parents. And we have a mass shootings’ worth of killings every day in this country. What we’re doing hasn’t worked, because we haven’t had a system in Washington capable of delivering what the American people have told us they want. 80 to 90 percent of Republicans want universal background checks, not to mention the common-sense solutions, like red flag laws that disarm domestic abusers and flag mental-health risks, and an end to assault weapons, things like what I carried overseas in uniform that have no business in American neighborhoods, in peacetime, let alone anywhere near a school.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
I was at an event a few days ago, and a 13-year-old asked me what we were gonna do about school safety, and then he began shaking, and then began crying. We could talk about these policies, but we already know the policies. The only thing I could think of, looking into the eyes of this child, is we’re supposed to be dealing with this, so you don’t have to. High school is hard enough without having to worry about whether you’re going to get shot-

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо...

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
-и когда 90 процентов американцев хотят, чтобы что-то произошло -

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, мэр...

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
-and Washington can’t deliver, we can’t expect the same [cross talk]

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Я не согласен.

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, мэр...

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Я... я не

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, мэр. Губернатор Хикенлупер, ваш ответ, пожалуйста?

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Я не согласен. Я не согласен с его диагнозом...

Дон Лемон:
Пожалуйста, оставайтесь на месте, сенатор. Пожалуйста, придерживайтесь правил.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Хорошо.

Дон Лемон:
We’ll get to you. We’ll come to you in just a minute. Governor Hickenlooper, please respond.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
Well, this is the fundamental nonsense of government. Another thing- another place where, despite our best efforts, we can’t seem to make any progress. When I went to the movie theater in Aurora, in 2012, and saw that footage of what happened, that crime scene, I’ll never forget it. And we decided that we were gonna go out and take on the NRA, and we passed- as a purple state, we passed universal background checks. We limited magazine capacity. We did the basic work that, for whatever reason, doesn’t seem to be able to get done in Washington.

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, губернатор. Сенатор Клобучар, пожалуйста, ответьте.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Yes. This isn’t just about a system or it’s not just about words. This is about the NRA. I sat across from the President of the United States after Parkland, because I’ve been a leader on these issues and have the will to close the boyfriend loophole. I watched and wrote down, when nine times, he said he wanted universal background checks. The next day he goes, and he meets with the NRA, and he folds. As your president, I will not fold. I will make sure that we get universal background checks passed, the assault weapon ban; that we do something about magazines, and that we understand when that sixth little- little six-year-old boy died, Stephen Romero, when his dad said, “He’s only six years old,” all I can say-

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, спасибо, сенатор. Мэр Баттиджиг, пожалуйста, ответьте.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
is he’s six years old. We have to remember that.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
This is the exact same conversation we’ve been having, since- since I was in high school. I was a junior, when the Columbine shooting happened. I was part of the first generation that saw routine school shootings. We have now produced the second school-shooting generation in this country. We dare not allow there to be a third. Something is broken, if it is even possible for the same debate around the same solutions that we all know are the right thing to do. They won’t prevent every incident. They won’t save every life. But we know what to do, and it has not happened.

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, мэр. Сенатор Клобучар, пожалуйста, ответьте.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Yes. What is broken is a political system that allows the NRA and other large, big money to come in and make things not happen when the majority of people are for it. The people are with us now. After Parkland, those students just didn’t march. They talk to their dads, and their grandpas, and the hunters in their family. And they said, “There must be a better way.” Then we elected people in the House of Representatives, and guess what? It changed, and they passed universal background checks. Now that bill is sitting on Mitch McConnell’s doorstep, because of the money and the power of the NRA. As president, I will take them on-

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
-Речь идет не о системах и словах.

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, сенатор Клобучар. Губернатор Баллок, как демократы могут доверять вам быть лидером в борьбе за безопасность оружия, если вы изменили свою позицию и призвали к запрету штурмового оружия только прошлым летом?

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
You know, like 40 percent of American households, I’m a gun owner. I hunt. Like far too many people in America, I’ve been personally impacted by gun violence. Had an 11-year-old nephew, Jeremy, shot and killed on a playground. We need to start looking at this as a public health issue, not a political issue. I agree with Senator Klobuchar. It is the NRA, and it’s not just gun violence. It’s when we talk about climate, when we talk about prescription drug costs … Washington, D.C. is captured by dark money, the Koch brothers, and others.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
That’s been the fight of my career. Kicking the Koch brothers out of Montana. Taking the first case after Citizens United up to the Supreme Court, making it so that elections are about people. That’s the way we’re actually going to make a change on this, Don, is by changing that system. Most the things that folks are talking about on this stage, we’re not going to address until we kick dark money, and the post-Citizens United corporate spending out of these elections.

Дон Лемон:
Congressman O’Rourke, your response?

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
Как еще можно объяснить, что в нашей стране от насилия с применением огнестрельного оружия погибает около 40 000 человек? Число, к которому ни одна другая страна даже близко не подходит; что мы знаем все решения, и все же ничего не изменилось. Это потому, что в этой стране деньги покупают влияние, доступ и, все чаще, результаты. Центры по контролю за заболеваниями не позволили изучить этот вопрос в первую очередь. Как президент, мы обязательно запретим взносы комитетов политических действий любому члену Конгресса или любому кандидату на федеральный пост. Мы будем прислушиваться к людям, а не к комитетам политических действий; к людям, а не к корпорациям; к людям, а не к особым интересам [перекрестный разговор].

Дон Лемон:
Congressman, thank you very much. Senator Sanders, you said this in 2013, just months after the Sandy Hook massacre, and I quote here, “If you passed the strongest gun control legislation tomorrow, I don’t think it will have a profound effect on the tragedies we have seen.” Do you still agree with that statement today?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Я думаю, что мы должны сделать... Я думаю, что я имел в виду то, что сказал президент Обама, и что никто здесь не скажет вам, что у нас есть волшебное решение кризиса. Я родом из одного из самых сельских штатов Америки. В NRA у меня рейтинг D-, а в качестве президента, я подозреваю, он будет F. Я считаю, что мы должны набраться мужества и наконец-то взять верх над NRA.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Вы спросили меня о моем послужном списке. В 1988 году, будучи выходцем из штата, где не было контроля над оружием, я призвал запретить продажу и распространение штурмового оружия. Я проиграл те выборы. Я сделаю все возможное, чтобы не только противостоять NRA, но и расширить всеобщие проверки биографии, отменить положение о соломенном человеке, отменить лазейку для демонстрации оружия и отменить лазейки, которые сейчас существуют для производителей оружия, которые продают большое количество оружия в общины, которое попадает к бандам.

Дон Лемон:
Да. Мэр Баттиджиг, ваш ответ?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Still, the conversation that we’ve been having for the last 20 years. Of course, we need to get money out of politics. But when I propose the actual structural democratic reforms that might make a difference in the Electoral College, amend the Constitution, if necessary, to clear up Citizens United, have D.C. actually be a state, and depoliticize the Supreme Court with structural reform, people look at me funny; as if this country were incapable of structural reform. Does anybody really think we’re gonna overtake Citizens United without constitutional action? This is a country that once changed its constitution so you couldn’t drink, and then changed it back, because we changed our minds about that-

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо. Спасибо, мэр...

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
-and you’re telling me we can’t reform our democracy in our time?

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, мэр...

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
We have to, or we’ll be having the same argument 20 years from now [cross talk]

Дон Лемон:
Пожалуйста, ответьте, губернатор Баллок.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
You can make changes. Even in Montana with a two-thirds Republican legislature, we passed a law that said if you’re gonna spend money in our elections, I don’t care if you call yourself Americans for America for America, you’re gonna have to disclose every one of those dollars in the last 90 days. I’ll never forget running for re-election in 2016. Even we stopped the Koch brothers from spending at that time. If we can kick the Koch brothers out of Montana, we can do it in D.C., and we can do it everywhere-

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
So, I’d like to be heard on this-

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
-and we are also taking steps, additional steps that we’ve taken … I’ve passed an executive order, if you’re even in a contract with the state, you have to disclose-

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо... Губернатор Баллок, большое спасибо. Мисс Уильямсон, как [перекрестный разговор]

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
So, I’d like to have a chance on this.

Дон Лемон:
-как вы реагируете на этот вопрос о безопасности оружия?

Марианна Уильямсон:
The issue of gun safety, of course, is that the NRA has us in a chokehold, but so do the pharmaceutical companies, so do the health insurance companies, so do the fossil fuel companies, and so do the defense contractors. And none of this will change until we either pass a constitutional amendment or pass legislation that establishes public funding for federal campaigns. But for politicians, including my fellow candidates, who, themselves, have taken tens of thousands, and in some cases, hundreds of thousands of dollars from these same corporate donors to think that they now have the moral authority to say we’re gonna take them on …

Марианна Уильямсон:
I don’t think the Democratic Party should be surprised that so many Americans believe yada, yada, yada. It is time for us to start over with people who have not taken donations from any of these corporations and can say with real moral authority, that is over. We are going to establish public funding for federal campaigns. That’s what we need to stand up to. We need to have a constitutional amendment. We need to have legislation to do it, and until we do it, it’s just the same old, same old-

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, мисс Уильямсон.

Джейк Таппер:
In poll after poll, Democratic voters say that they want a candidate who can beat President Trump more than they want a candidate who agrees with them on major issues. Governor Hickenlooper, you ran a Facebook ad that warned, quote, “Socialism is not the answer.” The ad also said, “Don’t let extremes give Trump four more years.” Are you saying that Senator Sanders is too extreme to beat President Trump?

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
I’m saying the policies of this notion that you’re gonna take private insurance away from 180 million Americans, who, many of them don’t want to give it; many of them do wanna get rid of it, but some don’t. Many don’t. Or you’re gonna … The Green New Deal – make sure that every American’s guaranteed a government job, if they want. That is a disaster at the ballot box. You might as well FedEx the election to Donald Trump.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
I think we’ve gotta focus on where Donald Trump is failing. You know, the word malpractice- and this is interesting, I always thought it was doctors or lawyers. It’s negligent, improper, illegal professional activity for doctors, lawyers, or public officials. Google it. Check it out. Donald Trump is malpractice personified. We’ve gotta point that out. Why is it soybean farmers in Iowa need 10 good years to get back to where they were two years ago, or it’s the small manufacturing jobs that are supposed to come back? Why are we lurching from one international crisis to another? All things that he promised American voters. We’ve gotta focus on that, and the economy, and jobs, and training, so that we can promise a future for America that everybody wants to invest in.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, губернатор. Сенатор Сандерс, вы гордитесь тем, что являетесь демократическим социалистом. Как вы ответите губернатору Хикенлуперу?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Well, the truth is that every credible poll that I have seen has me beating Donald Trump, including- including the battleground states of Michigan, where I won the Democratic primary, Wisconsin, where I won the Democratic primary, and Pennsylvania. And the reason we are gonna defeat Trump, and beat him badly, is that he took a fraud and a phony, and we’re gonna expose him for what he is.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
The American people want to have a minimum wage, which is a living wage, 15 bucks an hour. I’ve helped lead that effort. The American people want to pay reasonable prices for prescription drugs, not the highest prices in the world-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
I’ve helped lead the effort to that, as well.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор. Губернатор Хикенлупер. Я хочу вернуть вас к ответу.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
So, again, I think if we’re gonna force Americans to make these radical changes, they’re not gonna go along … Throw your hands up.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Обязательно!

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
But you haven’t. Whoa-ho, I can do it! But you haven’t implemented the plans. Us governors and mayors are the ones that we have to pick up all the pieces, when suddenly the government’s supposed to take over all these responsibilities. There’s no preparation, the details on what … You can’t just spring a plan on the world and expect it to succeed.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Джон -

Джейк Таппер:
Сенатор Сандерс.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
John, I was a mayor, and I helped transform my city [cross talk] I have some practical experience. Second of all, interestingly enough, today is the anniversary of Medicare. Fifty-four years ago, under Lyndon Johnson, and the Democratic Congress, they started a new program. After one year, 19 million elderly people in it. Please don’t tell me that, in a four-year period, we cannot go from 65 down to 55, to 45, to 35. This is not radical. This is what virtually every other country on earth does-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Мы - странные люди.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Senator. I wanna bring- I wanna bring in Congressman Ryan. You’re from the state of Ohio. It’s a state that voted twice for Obama, and then went to President Trump in 2016. Please respond to Senator Sanders.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
I would just say Hillary Clinton was winning in the polls, too. To take a snapshot in the polls today, and apply it 16 months from now, or whenever it is, I don’t think is accurate. Now, in this discussion already tonight, we’ve talked about taking private health insurance away from union members in the industrial Midwest. We’ve talked about decriminalizing the border, and we’ve talked about giving free healthcare to undocumented workers, when so many Americans are struggling to pay for their healthcare. I, quite frankly, don’t think that that is an agenda that we can move forward on and win. We’ve got to talk about the working-class issues, the people that take a shower after work, who haven’t had a raise in 30 years.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо [перекрестный разговор]

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
-if we focus on that, we’ll win the election.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Congressman. I wanna bring in Congressman O’Rourke. Your response, sir?

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
Bernie was talking about some of the battleground states in which we compete. There’s a new battleground state, Texas, and it has 38 Electoral College votes. And the way that we put it in play was by going to each one of those 254 counties. No matter how red or rural, we did not write you off; no matter how blue or urban, we did not take you for granted. And we didn’t trim our sails either. We had the courage of our convictions, talking about universal healthcare, comprehensive immigration reform, and confronting the challenge of climate before it is too late. We brought everyone in, and now we have a chance to beat Donald Trump within Texas.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Congressman, I’m wondering, Governor Bullock, we’re talking about whether Democrats are moving too far to the left to win the White House. President Trump won your home state of Montana by 20 points. How do you respond, sir?

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
Yeah, as the only one of the field of 37 that actually won a Trump state, 25 to 30 percent of my voters voted for Donald Trump. I know that we do have to win back some of those places we lost and get those Trump voters back, if we’re ever going to win. But this isn’t just a choice between the left and the center. It’s not a choice just between these wishlist economics or thinking that we have to sacrifice our values to actually win. What folks want is a fair shot. The way I won, the way we can win is to actually focus on the economy and democracy aren’t working for most people-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, губернатор.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
-that’s how I win. That’s how we can take back the office.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Governor. Senator Warren, you make it a point to say that you’re a capitalist. Is that your way of convincing voters that you might be a safer choice than Senator Sanders?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
No, it is my way of talking about I know how to fight, and I know how to win. I took on giant banks, and I beat them. I took on Wall Street, and CEOs, and their lobbyists, and their lawyers, and I beat them. I took on a popular Republican incumbent senator, and I beat him. I remember when people said Barack Obama couldn’t get elected. Shoot, I remember when people said Donald Trump couldn’t get elected. But here is where we are. I get it. There is a lot at stake, and people are scared, but we can’t choose a candidate we don’t believe in, just because we’re too scared to do anything else. We can’t ask other people to vote for a candidate we don’t believe in. Democrats win when we figure out what is right, and we get out there and fight for it. I am not afraid. And for Democrats to win, you can’t be afraid either.

Джейк Таппер:
Конгрессмен Дилейни, ваш ответ?

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
So, I think Democrats win when we run on real solutions, not impossible promises; when we run on things that are workable, not fairy tale economics. Look at this story of Detroit – this amazing city that we’re in. This city is turning around because the government and the private sector are working well together. That has to be our model going forward. We need to encourage collaboration between the government, the private sector, and the non-profit sector and focus on those kitchen table pocketbook issues that matter to hardworking Americans – building infrastructure, creating jobs, improving their pay-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмен.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
-создание всеобщего здравоохранения и снижение цен на лекарства. Мы можем это сделать.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, конгрессмен. Сенатор Уоррен?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
You know, I don’t understand why anybody goes to all the trouble of running for president of the United States just to talk about what we really can’t do and shouldn’t fight for. I don’t get it. Our biggest problem in Washington is corruption. It is giant corporations that have taken our government and that are holding it by the throat. And we need to have the courage to fight back against that. Until we’re ready to do that, it’s just more of the same. Well, I’m ready to get in this fight. I’m ready to win this fight.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор. Конгрессмен Дилейни?

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
When we created Social Security, we didn’t say pensions were illegal. We can have big ideas to transform the lives … I mean, I started two companies and took them public before I was 40. I’m as big of a dreamer and an entrepreneur as anyone, but I also believe we need to have solutions that are workable. Can you imagine if we tried to start Social Security now, but said private pensions are illegal? That’s the equivalent of what Senator Sanders and Senator Warren are proposing with healthcare. That’s not a big idea. That’s an idea that’s dead on arrival. That will never happen. So why don’t we actually talk about things, big ideas that we can get done? The stakes are too high-

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Congressman. Senator Warren? [cross talk] We’ll come to you right after that. Senator Warren?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
He talks about solutions that are workable. We have tried the solution of Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance. What have the private insurance companies done? They’ve sucked billions of dollars out of our healthcare system. They’ve made everybody fill out dozens, and dozens of forms. Why? Not because they’re trying to track your healthcare. They just want one more excuse to say no. Insurance companies do not have a God-given right to suck money out of our healthcare system-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
И 2020 год - это наш шанс остановить это.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор. Сенатор Сандерс?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Detroit was mentioned, and I’m delighted that Detroit is rebounding, but let us understand, Detroit was nearly destroyed because of awful trade policy, which allowed corporations to throw workers in this community out on the street as they moved to low-wage countries. To win this election, and to defeat Donald Trump, which, by the way, in my view, is not gonna be easy, we need to have a campaign of energy, and excitement, and a vision. We need to bring millions of young people into the political process in a way that we have never seen, by, among other things, making public colleges and universities tuition free and canceling student debt-

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Senator. Thank you, Senator. I wanna bring in … I wanna bring in Senator Klobuchar. At the beginning of the night, you said, “You’re gonna hear a lot of promises on the stage,” and previously you have said, when asked about your primary opponents, “A lot of people are making promises, and I’m not gonna make promises just to get elected.” Who on this stage is making promises just to get elected?

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Everyone wants to get elected, but my point is this – I think when we have a guy in the White House that has now told over 10,000 lies that we better be very straightforward with the American people. And, no, do I think that we are gonna end up voting for a plan that kicks half of America off of their current insurance in four years? No, I don’t think we’re gonna do that. I think there is a better way to get what we all want to see, which is lower costs for healthcare.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Do I think that we’re gonna vote to give free college to the wealthiest kids? No, I don’t think we’re gonna do that. That’s what I’m talking about. But what I don’t like about this argument right now, what I don’t like about it at all, is that we are more worried about winning an argument than winning an election. I think how we win an election is to bring everyone with us. Yes, I have won, in a state, every single time statewide … I have won those congressional districts that Donald Trump won by over 20 points. He just targeted Minnesota last week. I’ve done it by getting out there and talking to people, by knowing rural issues, and farm issues-.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор Клобучар.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
-and bringing metro people with me in this state that had the highest voter turnout in this country. That’s what we want.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Senator [cross talk] I wanna bring Congressman O’Rourke … Congressman O’Rourke, please respond.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
Я думаю, что важной частью лидерства и демонстрации нашей приверженности американскому народу является выполнение наших обязательств. Будучи членом Конгресса, когда я узнал, что в ветеранском госпитале в Эль-Пасо были самые худшие в стране сроки ожидания психиатрической помощи, что означает, что задержка в оказании помощи функционально превращалась в отказ в оказании помощи и была связана с эпидемией самоубийств, мы сделали это нашим приоритетом, и мы изменили ситуацию в ветеранском госпитале в Эль-Пасо. Мы взяли этот урок на вооружение в национальном масштабе, и я работал с коллегами-республиканцами и демократами над расширением психиатрической помощи ветеранам, и мы добились подписания закона единственным человеком, с которым я почти ни в чем не согласен - Дональдом Трампом, чтобы показать, что в конце дня мы поставим американский народ на первое место перед партией, перед любой другой заботой.

Дана Бэш:
Thank you- Thank you, Congressman O’Rourke. We’ve been asking voters to weigh in on what they’d most like to hear Democrats debate. Among the topics they told us they’re most interested in – the climate crisis. Congressman Delaney, I’ll start with you. You say the Green New Deal is about as realistic as Trump saying Mexico is going to pay for the wall, but scientists say we need essentially to eliminate fossil fuel pollution by 2050 to avoid the most catastrophic consequences. Why isn’t this sweeping plan to fight the climate crisis realistic?

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
Well, first of all, because it ties its progress to other things that are completely unrelated to climate, like universal healthcare, guaranteed government jobs, and universal basic income. So that only makes it harder to do. My plan, which gets us to Net Zero by 2050, which we absolutely have to do for our kids and our grandkids, will get us there. I put a price on carbon. Take all the money, give it back to the American people in a dividend. That was introduced by me on a bipartisan basis. It’s the only significant bipartisan climate bill in the Congress.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
I’m gonna increase the Department of Energy research budget by fivefold, because we fundamentally have to innovate our way out of this problem. I’m gonna create a market for something called direct air capture, which are machines that actually take carbon out of the atmosphere, because I don’t think we’ll get to Net Zero by 2050 unless we have those things. I’m gonna increase investment in renewables, and I’m gonna create something called the Climate Corps. That is a plan that’s realistic. It’s a bet on the U.S. private innovation economy and creates the incentives to get us to Net Zero by 2050 for our kids-

Дана Бэш:
Thank you- thank you, Congressman. Senator Warren, you’re a co-sponsor of the Green New Deal. Your response to Congressman Delaney.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Итак, климатический кризис - это экзистенциальный кризис для нашего мира. Он ставит под угрозу все живое на нашей планете. У меня есть план зеленой промышленной политики, которая использует тот факт, что мы делаем то, что у нас получается лучше всего, а именно - внедряем инновации и создаем. Поэтому я предложил выделить $2 триллиона, чтобы мы провели исследования. Затем мы говорим, что любой человек в мире может использовать это, если только вы построите это прямо здесь, в Америке. Это позволит создать около 1,2 миллиона рабочих мест в обрабатывающей промышленности прямо здесь, в Мичигане, в Огайо, на промышленном Среднем Западе. Второе, что мы сделаем, это будем продавать эту продукцию по всему миру. Сейчас на каждый доллар, полученный Соединенными Штатами...

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
-затраты на маркетинг по всему миру-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор Уоррен.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
-China’s spending $100-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор Уоррен. Губернатор Хикенлупер, вы не согласны с "Зеленым новым курсом". Пожалуйста, ответьте.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
Well, I think the guarantee for a public job for everyone who wants one is a classic part of the problem. It’s a distraction. I share the urgency of everyone up here. We have to recognize … I mean, everyone’s got good ideas. What we do in this country is no better than just a best practice. What we do here is a best practice and a template, but it’s gotta be done all over the world. So, we’ve gotta be building bridges right now with people, like China, who are cheating on international agreements and stealing intellectual property. We need to work on that, but not with a tariff system. We need every country working together, if we’re gonna really deal with climate change in a realistic way.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо. Сенатор Уоррен, ваш ответ?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Look, I put a real policy on the table to create 1.2 million new jobs in green manufacturing. It’s gonna be a $23 trillion worldwide market for this. This could revitalize huge cities across this country, and no one wants to talk about it. What you wanna do instead is find the Republican talking point of a made-up piece of some other part and say, “Oh, we don’t really have to do anything.” That’s the problem we’ve got in Washington right now.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо...

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Вашингтон продолжает оставаться Вашингтоном, который отлично подходит для нефтяных компаний, но не для людей, обеспокоенных изменением климата.

Дана Бэш:
Thank you, Senator Warren. Congressman Ryan, we are here in Michigan, where there are about 180,000 workers in auto manufacturing. Your state of Ohio has around 96,000 workers in that industry. Senator Sanders is cosponsoring a bill that would eliminate new gas-powered car sales by 2040. Given the number of auto manufacturing workers in your state, how concerned are you about Senator Sanders’ plan?

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
Well, if we get our act together, we won’t have to worry about it. My plan is to create a chief manufacturing officer, so we could actually start making things in the United States again that would pool the government, the Department of Energy, Department of Transportation; work with the private sector, work with investors, emerging tech companies to dominate the electric vehicle market. China dominates it now, 50 to 60 percent. I want us to dominate the battery market, make those here in the United States, and cut the workers in on the deal. The charging stations, solar panels, same thing. China dominates 60 percent of the solar panel market. This person will work in the White House, report directly to me, and we’re gonna start making things again.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
But you cannot get there on climate, unless we talk about agriculture. We need to convert our industrial agriculture system over to a sustainable and regenerative agriculture system that actually sequesters carbon into the soil – you can go ask Gabe Brown and Alan Williams, who actually make money off of regenerative agriculture – so we can move away from all the subsidies that we’re giving the farmers. They haven’t made a profit in five years, and we could start getting good food into our schools and into our communities. That’s gonna drive healthcare down. That’s another part of the healthcare conversation that we didn’t even have. How do we start talking about health, instead of just disease care?

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо. Спасибо, конгрессмен Райан. Сенатор Сандерс, ваш ответ?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
I get a little bit tired of Democrats afraid of big ideas. Republicans are not afraid of big ideas. They could give a trillion dollars in tax breaks to billionaires and profitable corporations. They could bail out the crooks on Wall Street. So, please don’t tell me that we cannot take on the fossil fuel industry, and nothing happens unless we do that. Here is the bottom line. We’ve gotta ask ourselves a simple question – what do you do with an industry that knowingly, for billions of dollars in short-term profits, is destroying this planet? I say that it’s criminal activity that cannot be allowed to continue-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо... Спасибо, сенатор Сандерс. Конгрессмен, ваш ответ?

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
Well, yeah, I would just say … I didn’t say we couldn’t get there til 2040, Bernie. You don’t have to yell. I mean, all I’m saying is- all I’m saying is we have to invent our way out of this thing. If we’re waiting for 2040 for a ban to come in on gasoline vehicles, we’re screwed. So, we’d better get busy now. That’s why I’m saying get a chief manufacturing officer; align the environmental incentives with the financial incentives and make sure that people can actually make money off of the new technologies that are moving forward. Then, here’s what I’ll do as president-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, конгрессмен.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
-Включить работника в сделку, обеспечить, чтобы это были профсоюзные рабочие места, и я удвою членство в профсоюзе, чтобы эти новые рабочие места оплачивались так же, как и старые рабочие места, связанные с ископаемым топливом.

Дана Бэш:
Сенатор Сандерс, ваш ответ.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Look, on this issue, my friends, there is no choice. We have got to be super-aggressive, if we love our children and if we want to leave them a planet that is healthy and is habitable. So, I don’t disagree with Tim. What that means is we gotta, A) take on the fossil fuel industry; B) it means we have to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel to energy efficiency and sustainable energy, and a hell of a lot of good union jobs as we do that. We’ve gotta transform our transportation system-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
-И мы должны возглавить мир, потому что это не только американская проблема.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор Сандерс. Губернатор Баллок, ваш ответ?

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
You know, all of us agree that we have to address climate change. No one on this stage is talking about, though, the Republicans won’t even acknowledge that climate change is real, Dana, and that’s because of the corrupting influence of money. That has been the fight of my career. And second of which, as we transition to this clean energy economy, you gotta recognize there are folks that have spent their whole life powering our country. Far too often, Democrats sound like they’re part of the problem. We gotta make sure to aid in those transitions as we get to a carbon neutral world, which I think we can do by 2040-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, губернатор. Просто чтобы уточнить, кто является частью проблемы?

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
Who? Oh, no. I think Democrats often, when they’re saying, “Oh, these fossil fuel industries, these workers, those coal mining workers …” Look, the world is changing. We gotta make it change, but I think Democrats often sound like the people that, as Congressman Ryan would say, shower at the end of the day; that they’re part of the problem. Far too many communities are being left behind as we make this transition.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
Look, we’re having this discussion, and we can talk about competing plans-.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, губернатор. Я хочу дать сенатору Сандерсу возможность ответить.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Look, Steve, ain’t nobody in the Congress who’s more strongly for workers than I am. So, when I talk about picking on the fossil fuel industry, what I am also talking about is a just transition. We can create, and what the Green New Deal is about- it’s a bold idea. We can create millions of good paying jobs. We can rebuild communities in rural America that have been devastated. We are not anti-worker. We are gonna provide, and make sure that those workers have a transition – new jobs, healthcare, and education [cross talk]

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Неизвестный:
Дана -

Дана Бэш:
-Губернатор Баллок, ваш ответ?

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
And look, Bernie, I was a union side labor lawyer. I fought day after day, and I know- But we set this up as a false choice far too often. Are we gonna actually address climate change? Fire seasons are 80 days longer in the West now … Or are we going to give people a better shot at a better life? You can do both. Let’s actually have the scientists drive this. Let’s not just talk about plans that are written for press releases that will go nowhere else, if we can’t even get a Republican to acknowledge that the climate’s changing-

Дана Бэш:
Thank you, Governor. Congressman O’Rourke, your response.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
I’ve listened to scientists on this, and they’re very clear. We don’t have more than 10 years to get this right. We won’t meet that challenge with half steps, or half measures, or only half the country. We’ve gotta bring everyone in. The people of Detroit and those that I listened to in Flint last week, they want the challenge. They want those jobs. They wanna create the future for this country and the world. Those community college students that I met in Tucumcari, New Mexico understand that wind and solar jobs are the fastest growing jobs in the country. Those farmers in Iowa say, “Pay me for the environmental services of planting cover crops and keeping more land in conservation easements.” That’s how we meet the challenge. We do it with everyone in this country. We bring everyone into the solution.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, конгрессмен. Мэр Баттиджиг, ваш ответ.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
We have all put out highly similar visions on climate. It is all theoretical. We will deal with climate, if and only if we win the presidency, if and only if we beat Donald Trump. Nominate me, and you get to see the President of the United States stand next to an American war veteran and explain why he chose to pretend to be disabled when it was his chance to serve. Nominate me, and we will have a different conversation with American voters about why the President of the United States thinks you’re a sucker when the problem in your life is your paycheck is not going up nearly as fast as the cost of housing, or the cost of education, or the cost of prescription drugs.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, мэр Баттиджиг...

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
-и он ничего не сделал для этого, кроме снижения налогов для корпораций [перекрестный разговор].

Дана Бэш:
Senator Klobuchar, I wanna ask you about something that CNN heard from a Michigan Democratic primary voter. We’ve been reaching out and getting their questions. Kimber from Birmingham, Michigan, has this question – what is your plan to address infrastructure, including the water issues, so another Flint, Michigan, does not happen again?

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Thank you, Dana. I was just in Flint, and they are still drinking bottled water in that town, and that is outrageous. My plan, and I am the first one that came out with an infrastructure plan – and I did that because this is a bread-and-butter issue … It’s a bread-and-butter issue for people that are caught in traffic jams. I think the governor here in Michigan smartly ran on the slogan, “Fix the damned roads.” It is an issue for union jobs. I think what we need to do is not have a president that’s promised he was gonna do that, on election night, if anyone remembers, and then he hasn’t followed through. He has done nothing. He blew up a meeting at the White House.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
I would put a trillion dollars into this, and I would pay for it by, first of all, changing the capital gains rate; by doing something when it comes to that regressive tax bill that left everyone behind, but really made his Mar-a-lago friends richer, as he promised, and I would take that money and put it into rural broadband and green infrastructure, so you won’t have what you just saw in Detroit with the Jefferson Chalmers neighborhood, the African neighborhood that was- African-American neighborhood that was most hit, when you had those recent rainstorms. I truly believe that if we’re gonna move on infrastructure-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо...

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
-по вопросам изменения климата нужен голос из глубинки [перекрестный разговор]

Дана Бэш:
Thank you, Senator Klobuchar. Ms. Williamson, what’s your response on the Flint water crisis?

Марианна Уильямсон:
Мой ответ по поводу водного кризиса во Флинте таков: Флинт - это только верхушка айсберга. Недавно я был в Дании, Южная Каролина, где... Много говорят о том, что это следующий Флинт. У нас есть администрация, которая выпотрошила Закон о чистой воде. У нас есть сообщества, особенно цветные сообщества, и неблагополучные сообщества по всей стране, которые страдают от экологической несправедливости. Уверяю вас - я жил в Гросс-Пойнте - то, что произошло во Флинте, не произошло бы в Гросс-Пойнте.

Марианна Уильямсон:
This is part of the dark underbelly of American society – the racism, the bigotry … And the entire conversation that we’re having here tonight, if you think any of this wonkiness is going to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivized hatred that this president is bringing up in this country, then I’m afraid that the Democrats are going to see some very dark days. We need to say it like it is. It’s bigger than Flint. It’s all over this country. It’s particularly people of color; it’s particularly people who do not have the money to fight back. And if the Democrats don’t start saying it, then why would those people feel that they’re there for us? And if those people don’t feel it, they won’t vote for us, and Donald Trump will win.

Дон Лемон:
Большое спасибо, мисс Уильямсон.

Марианна Уильямсон:
Спасибо.

Дон Лемон:
We wanna turn now to the issue of race in America. Congressman O’Rourke, President Trump is pursuing a re-election strategy based in part on racial division. How do you convince primary voters that you’d be the best nominee to take on President Trump and heal the racial divide in America?

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
We’ll call his racism out for what it is and also talk about its consequences. It doesn’t just offend our sensibilities to hear him say, “Send her back,” about a member of Congress, because she’s a woman of color, because she’s a Muslim-American. Doesn’t just offend our sensibilities when he calls Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals or seeks to ban all Muslims from the shores of a country that’s comprised of people from the world over from every tradition of faith.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
It is also changing this country. Hate crimes are on the rise, every single one of the last three years. On the day that he signed his executive order attempting to ban Muslim travel, the mosque in Victoria, Texas, was burned to the ground. So we must not only stand up against Donald Trump and defeat him in this next election, but we must also ensure that we don’t just tolerate or respect our differences, but we embrace them. That’s what we’ve learned in El Paso, Texas, my hometown – one of the safest cities in the United States of America, not despite, but because it’s a city of immigrants, and asylum seekers, and refugees. We will show that diversity is our strength in my administration.

Дон Лемон:
Thank you- Congressman O’Rourke, thank you very much. Governor Hickenlooper, why are you the best nominee to heal the racial divide in America? Please respond.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
Well, the core value behind this entire country’s history is working towards a more perfect union – that all people are created equal. And we’ve fallen far away from that. I think the job is incumbent on any one of us to make the convincing case that we can deliver an urban agenda that represents progress in schools.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
In Colorado, when I was mayor, we got to universal pre-K for every kid in the urban city. We did major police reform 10 years before Ferguson. Why is it now that five years after Ferguson, we still don’t have anything? How did we get affordable housing? We create a scholarship fund for every kid. You’ve gotta deliver a vision like that for the whole country.

Дон Лемон:
Thank you, Governor. Senator Warren, I’m coming to you now.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Да.

Дон Лемон:
Last week, the FBI director, Christopher Wray, said that the majority of domestic terrorism cases this year had been motivated by white supremacy. In fact, the alleged shooter in this weekend’s attack in Gilroy, California referenced a well-known white supremacist book on social media. How are you going to combat the rise of white supremacy?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Мы должны назвать белое превосходство тем, чем оно является - внутренним терроризмом. Оно представляет угрозу для Соединенных Штатов Америки. Мы живем в стране, где президент продвигает экологический расизм, экономический расизм, расизм в сфере уголовного правосудия, расизм в сфере здравоохранения. Наш путь к лучшему - дать отпор и показать что-то лучшее.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
So, I have a plan, for example, on education that says we have to build a better education system for all our kids, but we’ve got to acknowledge what’s happened on race. My plan has universal tuition-free college for all of our kids, but also increases the Pell Grants and levels the playing field by putting $50 billion into historically black colleges and universities. It cancels student loan debt for 95 percent of the kids with student loan debt and helps close the black-white wealth gap in America.

Дон Лемон:
Thank you, Senator, very much. Mayor Buttigieg, you’ve been criticized for your handling of racial issues in your home city of South Bend – from diversity in the police force to housing policy. Given your record, how can you convince African-Americans that you should be the Democratic nominee?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
As an urban mayor serving a diverse community, the racial divide lives within me. I’m not saying that I became mayor, and racism, or crime, or poverty ended on my watch, but in our city, we have come together repeatedly to tackle challenges like the fact that far too many people were not getting the help they needed in their housing. We directed it to a historically underinvested African-American neighborhood. Right now, in the wake of a police-involved shooting, our community is moving from hurting to healing by making sure that the community can participate in things like revising the use of force policy and making sure there are community voices on the board of safety that handles police matters.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
I’ve proposed a Douglas plan to tackle this issue nationally, because mayors have hit the limits of what you can do unless there is national action. Systemic racism has touched every part of American life, from housing, to health, to homeownership. If you walk into an emergency room, and you are Black, your reports of pain will be taken less seriously. If you apply for a job, if you are Black, you are less likely to be called, just because of the name on the resume. It’s why I’ve proposed that we do everything from investing in historically red-lined neighborhoods to build Black wealth in homeownership-

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, мэр...

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
-по поддержке предпринимательства для чернокожих американцев.

Thank you very much. Senator Klobuchar, what do you say to those Trump voters who prioritize the economy over the president’s bigotry?

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Well, first of all, there are people that voted for Donald Trump before that aren’t racist. They just wanted a better shake in the economy, so I would appeal to them. But I don’t think anyone can justify what this president is doing. Little kids literally woke up this weekend, turned on the TV, and saw their president calling their city – the town of Baltimore – nothing more than a home for rats. I can tell you, as your president, that will stop.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
The second thing I would say is that economic opportunity means economic opportunity for everyone in this country. I know that, because I have lived it. And that means when we put out there better childcare, and a better education, and we pay teachers more, and we make sure there’s a decent retirement system in place, yes, we help the African-American community. We must, because they have been the ones that have been most hurt by what we’ve seen in the last decade, but we help everyone. What I say to the people in my rural parts of my state, just like I say to them in the city and bring them together, is that economic opportunity must be there for everyone.

Дон Лемон:
Senator Klobuchar, thank you very much. Congressman O’Rourke, please respond.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
I want to acknowledge something that we’re all touching on, which is the very foundation of this country. The wealth that we have built, the way we became the greatest country on the face of the planet was literally on the backs of those who were kidnapped and brought here by force. The legacy of slavery, and segregation, and Jim Crow, and suppression is alive and well in every aspect of the economy, and in the country today. As president, I will sign into law a new voting rights act. I will focus on education, address healthcare disparities, but I will also sign into law Sheila Jackson Lee’s reparations bill, so that we can have the national conversation we have waited too long in this country to have.

Дон Лемон:
Thank you, Congressman O’Rourke. Speaking of reparations, Ms. Williamson, many of your opponents support a commission to study the issue of reparations for slavery, but you are calling for up to $500 billion in financial assistance. What makes you qualified to determine how much is owed in reparations?

Марианна Уильямсон:
Well, first of all, it’s not $500 billion in financial assistance. It’s $500 billion- $200 to $500 billion payment of a debt that is owed. That is what reparations is. We need some deep truth telling, when it comes … We don’t need another commission to look at evidence. I appreciate what Congressman O’Rourke has said. It is time for us to simply realize that this country will not heal … All that a country is, is a collection of people. People heal when there’s some deep truth telling. We need to recognize that when it comes to the economic gap between blacks and whites in America, it does come from a great injustice that has never been dealt with. That great injustice has had to do with the fact that there was 250 years of slavery, followed by another 100 years of domestic terrorism.

Марианна Уильямсон:
What makes me qualified to say $200 to $500 billion? I’ll tell you what makes me qualified. If you did the math of the 40 acres and a mule, given that there was 4 to 5 million slaves at the end of the Civil War … They were all promised 40 acres and a mule for every family of four. If you did the math today, it would be trillions of dollars. I believe in anything less than $100 billion is an insult, and I believe that $200 to $500 billion is politically feasible today, because so many Americans realize there is an injustice that continues to form a toxicity underneath the surface, and emotional turbulence that only reparations [cross talk]

Дон Лемон:
Ms. Williamson, thank you very much. Senator Sanders … Senator Sanders, you don’t think cash payments are the best way to address this issue, but according to a new Gallup poll, 73 percent of African-Americans are in favor of cash payments to Black Americans who are descendants of slaves. How do you respond to them?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Well, I respond to that by saying that I am supportive of Jim Clyburn’s legislation, which is called 10-20-30. What that understands is that, as a result of slavery, and segregation, and the institutional racism we see now in healthcare, in education, in financial services, we are going to have to focus big time on rebuilding distressed communities in America, including African-American communities.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
In terms of education, I also have a plan. It’s called the Thurgood Marshall Plan, and it would focus on ending the growth of segregated schools in America. It would triple funding for Title I schools. It would make sure that teachers in this country earned at least $60,000 a year.

Дон Лемон:
Senator Sanders, thank you very much. Congressman Ryan, President Trump’s tariffs have boosted the U.S. steel industry, but hurt auto manufacturers, like those here in Michigan, which could drive up the cost of cars. As president, would you continue President Trump’s steel tariffs?

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
Look, I think President Trump was onto something when he talked about China. China has been abusing the economic system for a long time. They steal intellectual property. They subsidize goods coming into this country. They’ve displaced steelworkers, autoworkers, across the board, eroded our manufacturing, and we basically transferred our wealth of our middle class either up to the top one percent or to China for them to build their military.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
I think we need some targeted response against China. But you know how you beat China? You outcompete them. That’s why I’d put a chief manufacturing officer in place to make sure that we rebuild the manufacturing base. We’ve gotta fill these factories in Detroit, and Youngstown that used to make cars and steel … We’ve gotta fill them with workers who are making electric vehicles, batteries, charging stations; make sure they’re making solar panels.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
As I said earlier, China dominated 60 percent of the solar panel market. They dominate 50 to 60 percent of the electric vehicle market. We’re gonna make 10 million electric vehicles somewhere in the world in the next 10 years. I wanna make it the United States. That’s why I have a chief manufacturing officer that will sit in the White House and help drive this agenda-

Дон Лемон:
Congressman, thank you. Just as a point of clarification, as president, would you continue President Trump’s steel tariffs? Yes or no?

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
Well, I would have to re-evaluate. I think some of them are effective, but he’s bungled the whole thing, obviously. He has … See, here’s the problem with President Trump. He has a tactical move, one of many. He has a tactical move. What’s the grand strategy for the United States? China has a 100-year plan, a 50-year plan, a 30-year plan, a 20-year plan. We live in a 24-hour news cycle. That spells disaster for our economy and disaster for our global policies.

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, конгрессмен. Конгрессмен Дилейни, ваш ответ?

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
So, listen, this is what I don’t understand. President Trump wants to build physical walls and beats up on immigrants. Most of the folks running for president want to build economic walls to free trade and beat up on President Obama. I’m the only one running for president who actually supports the Trans-Pacific Partnership. President Obama was right about that. We should be getting back in that. Senator Warren just issued a trade plan that would prevent the United States from trading with its allies. We can’t go and- we can’t isolate ourselves from the world. We have to engage with fair rules-based trade-

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо. Спасибо, конгрессмен Дилейни, сенатор Уоррен, пожалуйста, ответьте.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
For decades, we have had a trade policy that has been written by giant multinational corporations to help giant multinational corporations. They have no loyalty to America. They have no patriotism. If they can save a nickel by moving a job to Mexico, they’ll do it in a heartbeat. If they can continue a polluting plant by moving it to Vietnam, they’ll do it in a heartbeat. I have put out a new comprehensive plan that says we’re not gonna do it that way. We’re gonna negotiate our deals with unions at the table, with small businesses at the table, with small farmers at the table with environmentalists at the table with, human rights activists at the table. Then, we’re gonna use the fact that everybody in the world wants to get to America’s markets. They wanna sell to you [cross talk] I’ll finish-

Дон Лемон:
Конгрессмен Дилейни.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
Извините.

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
-is everyone wants to get to America’s markets.

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Нет... Вопрос в том, как мы должны повышать наши стандарты...

Дон Лемон:
Senator, thank you, please abide by the rules. Congressman Delaney, it’s your turn. Thank you, Senator. Congressman Delaney?

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
So, that was the Trans-Pacific Partnership. I think President Obama was right. He did include environmental standards. He did include labor standards. We would be in an entirely different position with China, if we had entered the Trans-Pacific Partnership. We can’t isolate ourselves from the world. We can’t isolate ourselves from Asia. Senator Warren’s plan, basically, that she put out, we would not be able to trade with the United Kingdom. We would not be able to trade with the EU.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Нет, в чем дело...

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
It is so extreme that it’ll isolate the American economy against the world-

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, конгрессмен Дилейни. Спасибо, конгрессмен. Сенатор [перекрестный разговор] Сенатор Уоррен? [Сенатор Сандерс, пожалуйста, позвольте сенатору Уоррен ответить.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Oh, I’m sorry.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
What the Congressman is describing as extreme is having deals that are negotiated by American workers for American workers. American workers want those jobs, and we can build the trade deals that do it. People want access to our markets all around the world? Then the answer is let’s make them raise their standards. Make them pay their workers more. Let their workers unionize; raise their environmental standards before they come to us and say they wanna be able to sell their products. Right now, the whole game is working for the big multinationals. It’s just not working for the people here in the United States, and we can change that-

Дон Лемон:
Senator, thank you very much. Congressman O’Rourke, your response.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
The question was about tariffs, and they’re a huge mistake. They constitute the largest tax increase on the American consumer, hitting the middle class, and the working poor especially hard. Farmers in Iowa and across the country are bearing the brunt of the consequences. When have we ever gone to war, including a trade war, without allies, and friends, and partners?

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
As president, we will hold China accountable, but we will bring our allies and friends, like the European Union, to bear. We’ll also negotiate trade deals that favor farmers, and American workers, and protect human rights, and the environment, and labor, not just here in the United States, but in [cross talk]

Дон Лемон:
Congressman O’Rourke, thank you very much. Senator Sanders, please respond to Congressman O’Rourke.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
I’d like to respond to this.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Yeah, okay. You’re looking, I believe, at the only member of Congress who not only voted against these disastrous trade agreements, after PNTR with China, which cost us over 4 million jobs, but also helped lead the effort against these agreements. Elizabeth is absolutely right. If anybody here thinks that corporate America gives one damn about the average American worker, you’re mistaken. If they can save five cents by going to China, Mexico, or Vietnam or anyplace else, that’s exactly what they would do. As president, let me tell you what I will do. These guys line up at the federal troughs. They want military contracts. They want all kinds of contracts. Well, under my administration, you ain’t gonna get those contracts, if you throw American workers out on the street-

Дон Лемон:
Сенатор Сандерс, большое спасибо [перекрестный разговор] Губернатор Хикенлупер, ваш ответ?

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
Again, I think Congressman Delaney has got a point here, and there is a way of looking at a trade that is therapeutic. The bottom line is you talk to any economist, there is not a single example in history where a trade war had a winner. Trade wars are for losers. The bottom line is we’ve gotta recognize- let’s negotiate a better trade deal, but you’re not gonna win against China in a trade war, when they’ve got 25 percent of our total debt.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
Step back and look at- here’s Trump gives that giant tax cut. And at the same time, so we’re paying in tariffs about $800 to $1,200 per household, and then we give this incredible tax cut to the rich. Essentially, what’s happening now – he’s transferred that tax obligation onto the middle class. That’s what’s outrageous, but tariffs are not the solution.

Дон Лемон:
Губернатор, спасибо, сенатор Уоррен?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Anyone who thinks that these trade deals are mostly about terrorists just doesn’t understand what’s going on. Look at the new NAFTA 2.0. What’s the central feature? It’s to help pharmaceutical companies get longer periods of exclusivity so they can charge Canadians, Americans, and Mexicans more money and make more profits. That’s what trade deals have become. They have become a way for giant multinationals to change the regulatory environment, so they can suck more profits out for themselves and to leave the American people behind. We have to have the courage to fight back against that corruption.

Дон Лемон:
Сенатор, спасибо. Губернатор Баллок, ваш ответ?

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
A farmer in [Rippey] said to me, “Every time that Trump tweets, we lose hundreds of thousands of dollars.” If Montana had to eat all the wheat that we produce, every Montanan would have to eat 40 loaves of bread a day. But by the same token, what we have is- I actually agree with Senator Warren on this, in part. Corporations can move capital easy. Workers can’t move. Going forward, we need to make sure that our trade deals actually are protecting- thinking about the workers. They can’t be the stepchild. But the way to do it with his blunt instrument of tariffs that the president is doing, that’s not how we get a fair deal for farmers anywhere or the manufacturers here in Detroit [cross talk]

Дон Лемон:
Governor, thank you very much. Mayor, stand by, please. Stand by, please. Please abide by the rules. Mayor Buttigieg, on Thursday of this week, a GM plant in Michigan will stop production – the latest auto plant to cease operations in the industrial Midwest. This comes as part of the company’s modernization plans, which will eventually result in 6,000 hourly workers losing their jobs or being reassigned to other plants. What is your plan for retraining workers whose jobs are at risk?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Well, this happened in my community 20 years before I was born. When I was growing up, we were still picking up the pieces. Empty factories, empty houses, poverty. I know exactly what happens to a community when these closures take place, and there will be more. It’s why we actually need to put the interests of workers first. Of course, we need to do retraining. We’re doing it now in South Bend. We should continue to do it. But this is so much bigger than a trade fight. This is about a moment when the economy is changing before our eyes. There are people in the gig economy who go through more jobs in a week than my parents went through in their lifetime. It’s why I’ve proposed that we allow gig workers to unionize, because a gig is a job, and a worker is a worker.

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, мэр.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Мы должны реагировать на все эти изменения, и, помимо противостояния технологиям, помимо поддержки рабочих путем удвоения профсоюзов, как я предлагал сделать, некоторые из этих изменений также относятся к низким технологиям, например, минимальная заработная плата просто слишком низкая. Так называемые консервативные христианские сенаторы, прямо сейчас в Сенате, блокируют законопроект о повышении минимальной заработной платы, в то время как в Писании сказано, что тот, кто притесняет бедных, насмехается над их создателем.

Дон Лемон:
Mayor, thank you very much. Congressman Delaney, I’m coming to you now. Your estimated net worth is more than $65 million. That would make you subject to Senator Warren’s proposed wealth tax on the assets of the richest 75,000 homes, households, or so in the United States. Do you think Senator Warren’s wealth tax is a fair way to fund childcare and education?

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
I think wealthy Americans have to pay more. Listen, I grew up in a blue-collar family; first in my family to go to college; became a successful entrepreneur, created thousands of jobs, supported thousands of entrepreneurs all around this country. And I’ve done well financially. I think I should pay more in tax. I think wealthy Americans should pay more in tax. But we have to have a real solution.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
The real solution is to raise the capital gains rates. There is no reason why people who invest for a living should pay less than people who work for a living. That’s ridiculous. It’s the biggest loophole in our tax code. We act like wealthy individuals are endangered species, and if we raise their taxes, they won’t invest. That’s crazy. That’s how we get more revenues from wealthy individuals – we roll back the Trump tax cuts to wealthy individuals. I think the wealth tax will be fought in court forever. It’s arguably unconstitutional, and the countries that have had it have largely abandoned it because it’s impossible to implement. But here again, real solutions, not impossible promises-

Дон Лемон:
Конгрессмен, большое спасибо...

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
-повысить налог на прирост капитала, свернуть налоги для богатых американцев...

Дон Лемон:
Конгрессмен... Спасибо, конгрессмен...

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
-что мы могли бы сделать в первые несколько месяцев нашего президентства.

Дон Лемон:
Сенатор Уоррен, пожалуйста, ответьте.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
So, I have proposed a wealth tax. It’s now time to do that. It’s time to tax the top one-tenth of one percent of fortunes in this country. Your first $50 million you can keep, free and clear, but your 50 millionth and first dollar, you’ve gotta pitch in two cents. Two cents. What can America do with two cents? We can provide universal childcare for every baby, age zero to five. We can provide universal pre-K for every three-year-old, and four-year-old. We can raise the wages of every childcare worker and preschool teacher in this country. We can provide universal tuition-free college. We can expand Pell. We can put $50 billion into our historically Black colleges and universities, and we can cancel student loan debt for 95 percent of the people who have it and start to close the wealth gap in America. It tells you how badly broken this economy is-

Дон Лемон:
Сенатор, большое спасибо. Конгрессмен Дилейни, пожалуйста...

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
-что два цента от самых богатых в этой стране позволят нам инвестировать в остальную Америку.

Дон Лемон:
-Спасибо, сенатор. Конгрессмен... Сенатор, пожалуйста. Конгрессмен, пожалуйста, ответьте.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
This is not about whether wealthy- this is not about whether wealthy Americans should pay more. I think we’re all in agreement on that. It’s a question of do you have a real solution to make it happen? We can raise the capital gains rate to match the ordinary income. You know the last president to do that was actually Ronald Reagan. We can do that in our first year. I’ve called for that to be done, and it’ll double the earned income tax credit. I’ve called for the expansion of universal pre-K so that every American has pre-K, and I do it through an additional tax on high-net-worth individuals-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо...

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
-but we don’t need to come up with new taxes that are arguably unconstitutional-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, конгрессмен Дилейни.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
-будут бороться в суде годами...

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, конгрессмен. Мы хотим перейти к вопросу [перекрестный разговор] о студенческих долгах...

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Могу я просто ответить на это, пожалуйста? [перекрестный разговор]

Дана Бэш:
We’re gonna turn to the issue of student debt now. Mayor Buttigieg, you’ve talked about how you and your husband are paying down six figures of student loan debt. Under Senator Sanders’ proposal to cancel all student loan debt, yours would immediately be wiped away. Why wouldn’t you support that?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
That’d be great for us. And then the next day, there would be a student loan program, and people would be out taking student loans, wondering why they weren’t lucky enough in timing to get theirs wiped away completely, too. We can have debt-free college for low- and middle-income students by expanding Pell grants and compelling states to pick up more of the burden. And, on the back end, for those of us who do have a lot of debt, we can make it more affordable, and we can expand a public service loan forgiveness program, which is an excellent program that is almost impossible to actually get access to, right now. We can take these steps and have an approach that is actually fair.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
If we wanna start wiping away student debt, here’s where I would start. I would start with the for-profit colleges that took advantage of people, especially veterans, by the way. The moment I redeployed, my Facebook ad feed started filling with ads from these for-profit colleges. Under President Obama, they were held accountable for whether they delivered results. President Trump, under a Secretary of Education who regrettably is from this state, did away with those rules. There is no accountability. On my watch, those colleges that turned the Department of Education into a predatory lender, that’s where we would begin, when it came to getting rid of loans.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, мэр Баттиджиг. Сенатор Сандерс, вы хотите простить все долги по студенческим кредитам? Ваш ответ?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Matter of fact, I do, but before I get into that, the major issue that we don’t talk about in Congress, we don’t talk about in the media, is the massive level of income and wealth inequality in America. You’ve got three people who own more wealth than the bottom 90 percent; you’ve got top one percent that owns more wealth than the bottom 92 percent; 49 percent of all new income goes to the top one percent.

Companies like Amazon, and billionaires out there do not pay one nickel in federal income tax, and we’ve got 500,000 people sleeping out on the street. What we need is a political revolution that tells these billionaires and corporate America that they are Americans. They’ll participate in our society. But they have got to start paying their fair share of taxes, period-

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо, сенатор Сандерс. Мисс Уильямсон [перекрестный разговор] Вы предлагаете сделать колледж бесплатным для всех квалифицированных студентов. Должно ли правительство платить за обучение в колледже детей из более обеспеченных семей?

Марианна Уильямсон:
I think that all domestic and international policy should be based on the idea that anything we do to help people thrive is a stimulation to our economy. That’s how you stimulate your economy. So, if a few people take advantage, but there are four or five people who are going to take the money that they then have in the bank … When you look at this $1.5 trillion college debt … This is why I agree with Bernie, or I would be okay … Why don’t we swap it? We had a $2 trillion tax cut, where 83 cents of every dollar goes to the very, very richest among us that does not stimulate the economy.

Марианна Уильямсон:
If we get rid of this college debt, think of all the young people who will have the discretionary spending. They’ll be able to start their business. The best thing you could do to stimulate the U.S. economy is to get rid of this debt. This is not just about a plan to do it. It’s about a philosophy of governing. I’ve heard some people here, tonight; I almost wonder why you’re Democrats. You seem to think there’s something wrong about using- about using the instruments of government to help people. That is what government should do. It should- all policy should help people thrive. That is how we will have peace, and that is how we will have prosperity.

Дана Бэш:
Thank you, Ms. Williamson. Congressman O’Rourke, you don’t support free four-year college. Your response to Ms. Williamson?

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
I support free two-year college. Earn that associates degree, realize your full potential … Debt free four-year college … But unlike some of the other candidates on the stage, that’s not just for tuition. That is room, and books, and board – the full cost of being able to better yourself so that you can better this country. Then, for that school teacher, who, in many places, like Texas, is working a second or a third job, full forgiveness for her outstanding student loan debt. Forgiveness for that person willing to work at the V.A. and serve our former service members, and we do not do that at the expense of unions. We elevate them, as well, and make it easier to join an apprenticeship, to learn a skill or a trade that you can command for the rest of your life.

Дана Бэш:
Спасибо. Спасибо, конгрессмен. Сенатор Клобучар. Ваш ответ?

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
I want to make it easier for kids to go to college. And I think we do it by focusing our resources on the people that need it most. My problem with some of these plans is they literally would pay for wealthy kids, for Wall Street kids, to go to college. There’s no difference. It says everyone is free. I don’t think that makes sense. I’m very concerned, if we do things like that, the debt we’re gonna pass on to the next generation, and the next generation. So, what I would do about student loan debt is that I would allow people to refinance it at a better rate, and I would make sure that we improve those student loan repayment programs for our teachers and expand them so that you literally, over 5-10 years, can get it paid for, if you go into occupations where we don’t have enough workers. I think we need to mesh what we were just talking about with the economy with our education policy.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Senator. I want to turn to foreign policy now. Senator Sanders, President Trump has argued that the United States cannot continue to be the, “policeman of the world.” You said the exact same thing on a debate stage in 2016. If voters are hearing the same message from you and President Trump on the issue of military intervention, how should they expect that you will be any different from him?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Trump is a pathological liar. I tell the truth. We have been in Afghanistan, I think, 18 years; in Iraq, 16 or 17 years. We have spent $5 trillion on the war on terror, and there are probably more terrorists out there now than before it began. We’re gonna spend- the Congress passed, and I will not vote for, a $750 billion military budget, more than the 10 next countries combined.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Нам нужна внешняя политика, в которой основное внимание уделяется дипломатии, прекращению конфликтов путем посадки людей за стол переговоров, а не путем убийства друг друга. Как президент Соединенных Штатов, я пойду в Организацию Объединенных Наций и не буду очернять ее, не буду нападать на ООН, а буду собирать страны вместе на Ближнем Востоке и во всем мире, чтобы примириться со своими разногласиями и решить эти проблемы мирным путем. Соединенные Штаты не могут быть мировым полицейским.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Senator. Governor Hickenlooper, how do you respond to Senator Sanders’ vision for America’s role in the world?

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
Well, we share the recognition of the incredible cost. People don’t realize that half the soldiers that fought in Iraq and Afghanistan were National Guard. So I went and sent them off in their deployments. Big, noisy hangers. But I also mourned with their families, when they didn’t come back.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
We are able now to- I call it constant engagement, but we should have an international diplomatic approach, where we’re talking to everybody, because if we’re gonna deal with climate change, and cybersecurity, and nuclear proliferation, we’ve gotta be talking to everybody. Tariff wars don’t work. They’re for losers.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you. Governor, I want to go to Congressman Ryan, and I wanna turn to the subject of North Korea, which, just hours ago, launched two short-range ballistic missiles for the second time in less than a week. Congressman, you’ve said that you would not meet with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un unless you were at least close to a deal. Now, Senator Klobuchar says that she would, “Always be willing to meet with leaders to discuss policies.” Is that a view wrong?

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
Yeah, I think so. I love Amy Klobuchar, but I think she’s wrong on this one. I don’t think presidents of the United States meet with dictators. We saw what just happened with President Trump. He goes to the demilitarized zone with the leader of North Korea, gives him a huge photo op, gives him global credibility, because the most powerful person in the world is sitting there meeting with him. Weeks later, he’s lobbing more missiles. That doesn’t make any sense.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
We’ve got to demilitarize our foreign policy. We’ve gotta make sure that we are engaging these countries all the time. This is very difficult work. I’ve been in Congress 17 years. I sit on the Defense Appropriations Committee. I sat on the Armed Services Committee. This is a long, tedious work. Much of it done outside of the eye of the TV camera. And as president, you’ve got to monitor that and be very disciplined every day. Don’t go give a dictator a huge win. Sit down and do your job. The same thing with what’s happening in Central America. He’s cutting the State Department budget … Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador, where the migrants are coming from. Go fix the problem at its source and use diplomacy to do it.

Джейк Таппер:
Сенатор Клобучар, ваш ответ?

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
I think we agree. I just think you have to leave open the possibility of meeting with anyone at any place. What I don’t like is how this president has handled it. You’ve heard of the Truman Doctrine, the Monroe Doctrine. He’s done the Go it Alone doctrine with the rest of the world. He’s taken us out of the climate change agreement, out of the Iran nuclear agreement, out of the Russian nuclear agreement. I don’t agree with that.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Когда он только что был с Владимиром Путиным на G20, когда его спросили о вторжении в нашу демократию, он отшутился. Сотни тысяч американцев погибли на поле боя, чтобы защитить нашу демократию и наше право голоса.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо...

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Четыре маленькие девочки в Бирмингеме, штат Алабама, погибли в церкви в разгар борьбы за гражданские права. Так что я верю, что вы встречаетесь с людьми, но лучше, чтобы у вас была повестка дня...

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
-and you’d better put our interests of our country first, not the Russians.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Senator Klobuchar. Mayor Buttigieg, you served in Afghanistan, where, just yesterday, two U.S. service members were killed. There are currently about 14,000 U.S. service members in Afghanistan. You’ve said, “One thing everybody can agree on is that we’re getting out of Afghanistan.” Will you withdraw all U.S. service members by the end of your first year in office?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Мы уйдем. Мы должны.

Джейк Таппер:
В первый год?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Yes. Look, around the world, we will do whatever it takes to keep America safe. But I thought I was one of the last troops leaving Afghanistan, when I thought I was turning out the lights years ago. Every time I see news about somebody being killed in Afghanistan, I think about what it was like to hear an explosion over there and wonder whether it was somebody that I served with, somebody that I knew – a friend, roommate, colleague. We’re pretty close to the day when we will wake up to the news of a casualty in Afghanistan who was not born on 9/11.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Я был отправлен на эту войну по разрешению Конгресса, а также президента. И мы должны говорить не только о необходимости президента, приверженного прекращению бесконечной войны, но и о том, что Конгресс спал у рубильника. При мне я предложу, чтобы любое разрешение на применение военной силы имело трехлетний срок действия и подлежало возобновлению, потому что если мужчины и женщины в армии имеют мужество идти служить, то члены Конгресса должны иметь мужество проголосовать за то, должны ли они там находиться.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Mayor. I wanna bring in Congressman O’Rourke. Congressman O’Rourke, responding- returning, rather, to the question of whether you would withdraw all U.S. service members from Afghanistan during your first year in office as president, how do you respond, sir?

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
I would, in my first term in office, agree that there is nothing about perpetuating this war, already in its 18th year, that will make it any better. We’ve satisfied the reasons for our involvement in Afghanistan in the first place. And it’s time to bring those service members back home from Afghanistan, but also from Iraq, also from Yemen, and Somalia, and Libya, and Syria. There is no reason for us to be at war all over the world tonight. As president, I will in those wars, and we will not start new wars. We will not send more U.S. service members overseas to sacrifice their lives and to take the lives of others in our name. We can resolve these challenges peacefully, and diplomatically-

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Congressman. Governor Hickenlooper, you disagree. You’ve said that you’re open to keeping some service members in Afghanistan beyond your first term. Please respond.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
I look at it as a humanitarian issue. And with all due respect, you’re looking at the condition of women … If we completely pull our troops out of there, you’re gonna see a humanitarian disaster that will startle and frighten every man, woman, and child in this country. I don’t think … We have troops in over 400 different locations around the world. Most of them are small; they’re peacekeeping; they’re not greatly at risk. We’re gonna have to be an Afghanistan. Look at the progress that’s happened in that country. We’re gonna turn our backs and walk away from people that have risked their lives to help us and build a different future for Afghanistan and that part of the world?

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, губернатор. Сенатор Уоррен, вы хотите сделать политикой США то, что США никогда не будут применять ядерное оружие, если только другая страна не применит его первой. Как сообщается, президент Обама рассматривал такую политику, но в итоге решил отказаться от нее. Почему США должны связывать себе руки такой политикой?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Because it makes the world safer. The United States is not going to use nuclear weapons preemptively, and we need to say so to the entire world. It reduces the likelihood that someone miscalculates, someone misunderstands. Our first responsibility is to keep ourselves safe. What’s happening right now with Donald Trump, as they keep expanding the different ways that we have nuclear weapons, the different ways that they could be used, puts us all at risk.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
You know, we talk about what’s happening around the world. I have three older brothers who served in the military. I see that they would do anything. Our military is the best on earth, but we should not be asking our military to take on jobs that do not have a military solution. We need to use our diplomatic tools, our economic tools. If we’re gonna send someone into war, we better have a plan for how we’re gonna get them out on the other end.

Джейк Таппер:
Thank you, Senator- Thank you, Senator. Governor Bullock, your response to Senator Warren’s proposal to the U.S. never using a nuclear weapon first?

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
I wouldn’t wanna take that off the table. I think America’s strength- we have to be able to say that. Look. Never, I hope … Certainly in my term, or anyone else, would we really even get close to pulling that trigger, but by the same token, America’s strength … Look, this president’s made it America versus America alone. Our allies no longer trust us; our adversaries are with us, but going from a position of strength, we should be negotiating down so there aren’t nuclear weapons. But drawing those lines in the sand, at this point, I wouldn’t do.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, губернатор. Сенатор Уоррен, ваш ответ?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
We don’t expand trust around the world by saying we might be the first ones to use a nuclear weapon. That puts the entire world at risk and puts us at risk, right in the middle of this, at a time when Donald Trump is pulling out of our nuclear negotiations, expanding the opportunities for nuclear proliferation around the world; has pulled us out of the deal in Iran. And Iran is now working on its nuclear weapon. The world gets closer and closer to nuclear warfare [cross talk] we have to have an announced policy that is one the entire world can live with. We need to make that clear. We will respond if somebody else does, but not first-

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо, сенатор. Губернатор Баллок, пожалуйста, ответьте.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
Отчасти я с этим согласен, но в то же время нам нужно вернуться к вопросу о распространении ядерного оружия.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Почему?

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
But when you have folks … De-proliferation, reducing it. But, at the same time, when you actually have Korea, when you have others, I don’t wanna turn around and say, “Well, Detroit has to be gone before we would ever use that …” When so many crazy folks are getting closer to having a nuclear weapon, I don’t want them to think, “I could strike this country, and I, and we, as the United States of America wouldn’t do a thing.” Part of the strength really is the ability to deter [cross talk]

Дон Лемон:
Governor, thank you very much. Moving on now [cross talk] Moving on now- please, Senator. Senator, please. Moving on now, as you know, to serve as president of the United States – all of you know this – you have to be at least 35 years old. So, Mayor Buttigieg, you just qualified. You’re 37. The youngest candidate in this field. Standing next to you is the oldest candidate, Bernie Sanders, at age 77. Should voters take into consideration age when choosing a presidential candidate?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
I don’t care how old you are, I care about your vision. But I do think it matters that we have a new generation of leaders stepping up around the world; leaders like the … I actually think it’s good that the prime minister of New Zealand’s gotten a lot of attention in Democratic debates. She’s masterful. She is younger than I would be when I take office. This is the kind of trying to America might be leading, instead of following, but only if it’s actually backed by the right vision. We can have great presidents at any age.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
What I will say is we need the kind of vision that’s gonna win. We cannot have a vision that amounts to back to normal. The only reason we got this president is that normal didn’t work. We have to be ready to take on this president, and – by the way, something that hasn’t been talked about as much, tonight – take on his enablers in Congress. When David Duke- when David Duke ran for Congress- ran for governor, the Republican Party, 20 years ago, ran away from him. Today, they are supporting naked racism in the White House, or are, at best, silent about it.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Если вы смотрели это дома и являетесь членом Конгресса от республиканцев, подумайте о том, что когда солнце сядет на закате вашей карьеры и они будут писать вашу историю обо всех хороших и плохих вещах, которые вы сделали в своей жизни, единственное, за что вас будут помнить, это то, нашли ли вы в этот момент, с этим президентом, мужество противостоять ему или вы продолжали ставить партию выше страны.

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, мэр. Сенатор Сандерс, как старший государственный деятель группы, пожалуйста, ответьте мэру Баттиджигу.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Pete is right. It’s a question of vision. That’s what it is, whether you’re young, whether you’re old, whether you’re in between. My vision, among other things, says that if we’re gonna fight for healthcare, we don’t take money from the drug companies or the insurance companies. I have asked all of the candidates who are running to say they will not accept money from those entities who, in my view, are going to war against the American people in terms of healthcare. That’s a new vision. A new vision says that we must cancel completely student debt, because the younger generation in this country today, for the first time in modern American history, will have a lower standard of living than their parents.

Дон Лемон:
Спасибо, сенатор Сандерс.

Джейк Таппер:
We have covered a lot of ground tonight. Now it is time for closing statements. You will each receive one minute. Governor Bullock, we’re gonna begin with you.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
Thanks, Jake. I was raised in a single parent household, at times, paycheck to paycheck. Only knew there was a governor’s house in town, because I delivered newspapers to it. So, I’ve made it about four blocks in life. Worked my way through college, paid my way through law school, but, you know, I had a chance to actually go from delivering newspapers to the governor’s house, as a kid, to now raising our three kids in it. We’ve gotta recognize, for far too many people now, in America, that shot no longer exists, and for far too many in this country, it never happens.

Губернатор Стив Баллок:
I’m running for president to beat Donald Trump, win back the places we lost, and make sure that Americans know that where Washington’s left them behind in their economy, and their political system, I’ll be there. This isn’t a choice just between center and left, or about … We don’t have to choose between what we don’t want and what we can’t afford. Folks want a different way. They want to believe the economy and our democracy can work for us. That’s why I’m running for president.

Джейк Таппер:
Спасибо. Мисс Уильямсон?

Марианна Уильямсон:
Yes. Our problem is not just that we need to defeat Donald Trump. We need a plan to solve institutionalized hatred, collectivized hatred, and white nationalism. In order to do that, we need more than political insider game, and wonkiness, and intellectual argument. Those things will not defeat Donald Trump. We need some radical truth telling, not just to talk about healthcare, but talk about why we’re so sick all the time. We need to have a serious conversation about race and what is truly owed.

Марианна Уильямсон:
Even on the subject of foreign policy, it’s all about symptoms and not about cause. We need to talk about the fact that the United States is sacrificing our moral leadership. The fact that countries see us not only domestically, but internationally with policies that simply support our corporate overlords. The fact that our national defense agenda is driven more by short-term profits for defense contractors than by genuine peace building.

Марианна Уильямсон:
There is some corruption that is so deep, ladies and gentlemen, and until the Democratic Party is ready to speak to the deeper corruption, knowing that we ourselves, sometimes, because of our own corporate donations, have participated, then I’m afraid those who vote for Trump will continue to vote for Trump, and those who might not like Donald Trump will continue to stay home.

Марианна Уильямсон:
I want a politics that goes much deeper. I want a politics that speaks to the heart, because the only way to fight … You keep talking about how we’re gonna fight Donald Trump. You can’t fight dog whistles; you have to override them. The only way you can override them is with new voices, voices of energy that only come from the fact that America has been willing to live up to our own mistakes, atone for our own mistakes, make amends for our own mistakes. Love each other. Love our democracy. Love future generations. Something emotional and psychological that will not be emerging from anything on this stage. It will emerge from something I’m the one who’s qualified to bring forth.

Джейк Таппер:
Конгрессмен Дилейни.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
Thank you, Jake. John F. Kennedy famously said we should not seek the Republican answer. We should not seek the Democratic answer. We should seek the right answer. He was right when he said it, and he’s right today, as well. Donald Trump is the symptom of a disease and the disease is divisiveness. I’m the only one on the stage talking about curing that disease, with big ideas like national service, by focusing on actually solving problems.

Конгрессмен Джон Дилейни:
If we work together, we can fix healthcare and build infrastructure. We can invest in not just technology, but people, and entrepreneurs, whether they be in Storm Lake, Iowa, or Detroit, Michigan, or Baltimore, Maryland. We can fight climate change and reimagine our education system, but we have to do it with real solutions, not impossible promises. Isn’t it time we had a president who was a leader in both the private sector and in government to lead us into the future? I promise, as president, I will restore vision, unity, and leadership, and decency to this country. That’s why I’m running for president. Thank you.

Джейк Таппер:
Конгрессмен Райан?

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
So, in a few minutes, all of the pundits are gonna be looking at this debate and saying, “Well, who captured the left lane? Who captured the center lane? Who captured the moderate lane?” I hope tonight, at some level, I captured your imagination – your imagination about what this country could be like if we united, if we put together real policies that weren’t left or right, but new and better. That’s how we win the future.

Конгрессмен Тим Райан:
It’s new and better – a new and better economy; a new and better education system; a new and better healthcare system that focuses on prevention; an education system that focuses on the trauma of our kids. There’s not gonna be a savior. Not gonna be a superstar that’s gonna fix all this. It’s gonna be you and me. It’s gonna be us. That’s how we fix this country – you and I coming together to do big things, to imagine the new country that we want by coming together. Not left or right. New and better.

Джейк Таппер:
Губернатор Хикенлупер.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
Thank you, and what a night. I’ve loved it. I’d like to ask every American to imagine that you are facing life-threatening surgery tomorrow. Would you choose a doctor who had a track record of proven success, who’s actually done the work, or someone who had just talked about it? That’s the question we’re facing in this primary.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
I’ve actually got a track record as a small business owner, as a mayor, and as a governor. We expanded healthcare in Colorado and got near universal coverage. We fought climate change directly. We beat the NRA. For the last three years, we’ve been the number-one economy in the country. We can ramp all that out.

Губернатор Джон Хикенлупер:
I’m as progressive as anybody up on this stage, but I’m also pragmatic, and I’ve done the things that most these other people are just talking about, and I know I can get results. I can lead the people of this country toward a stronger, a healthier, and a more secure future; defeat Donald Trump and return this country to its glory. Thank you.

Джейк Таппер:
Сенатор Клобучар?

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
Well, thank you, Detroit. To win, we have to listen to people, and out there today is Casey Jo’s mom, Casey Jo was a champion high school swimmer from a small town. She got sick, went to the emergency room, and got hooked on opioids. The last thing that she said to her mom was, “Mama, it’s not my fault,” and she died. A lot of Americans say the same thing every day. That is what I will stand up for.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
What I will stand up against are companies like those pharma companies that got her hooked on those opioids and didn’t tell the doctors, or the patients what was gonna happen. We need someone that has people’s back. We also need someone that can win. I have won in these red districts. I win in the Midwest. I can win in states like Wisconsin, and Michigan, and Iowa.

Сенатор Эми Клобучар:
I also will do my job without fear, or favor, just like I did as a prosecutor and get through the gridlock, like I’ve done as a senator, where I’ve passed over 100 bills, where I’ve been the lead Democrat. Last, yes, I will govern with integrity. We have a president where people turn off their TV when they see him. Not me. I will make you proud, as your president.

Джейк Таппер:
Congressman O’Rourke?

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
We are as divided and polarized as a country as we have ever been. Right now, we have a president who uses fear to try to drive us further apart. To meet this challenge, we have to have hope in one another and a faith in a future of this country that includes everyone. My whole life, I’ve been including people in the success of this country; starting a small business with high value, high wage, high skill jobs in the third poorest urban county in America; serving on the city council and holding town hall meetings every single week to remind myself who it is that I serve at the end of the day.

Congressman Beto O’Rourke:
В Конгрессе я был в меньшинстве, но работал как с демократами, так и с республиканцами, чтобы добиться успеха для моих избирателей и этой страны. Затем в Техасе, в прошлом году, посещая каждый округ, никого не списывая со счетов, никого не принимая как должное, и, в конце концов, набрав больше голосов, чем любой демократ за всю историю штата, впервые за десятилетия завоевав независимых и почти полмиллиона республиканцев. Эти 38 голосов коллегии выборщиков в Техасе теперь в игре, и я могу их выиграть. Именно так мы победим Дональда Трампа в ноябре 2020 года и снова объединим эту разделенную страну в январе 2021 года. Спасибо.

Джейк Таппер:
Мэр Баттиджиг?

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
There’s good news and bad news. I’m gonna start with the bad news. Our country is in trouble. GDP is going up and life expectancy is going down. Think about what that means. It’s only getting tougher. By 2030, we will have passed the point of no return on climate. There are gonna be 130 million more guns on our streets. I’ll be in my 40s then. If you have kids, think about how old they will be then.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
Here’s the good news – it’s not too late. We can tell our kids that before we ran out of time, just before we ran out of time, in 2020, we did what it took to deliver a climate that we didn’t have to wonder if it could support us; to deliver a society where race has no bearing on your health, or your wealth, or your relationship with law enforcement; that we did what it took to deliver an economy where a rising tide actually does lift all boats.

Мэр Пит Баттиджиг:
We can do this, if, and only if we are ready to walk away from what hasn’t worked with bold action and win; not only defeat this president, but defeat his congressional allies with a defeat so big that it reunites the Republican Party with its conscience, as well as bringing Democrats to office. Join me and let’s make it happen.

Джейк Таппер:
Сенатор Уоррен?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
From the time I was seven years old, I had a dream. I wanted to be a public-school teacher, but my daddy ended up as a janitor, and by the time I graduated from high school, my family didn’t have the money to send me off to college. My big chance was what was then a commuter college that cost $50 a semester. For me, what this election is all about is opportunity. Every budget, every policy that we talk about is about who’s going to get opportunity. Is it gonna go to the billionaires, or is it gonna go to our kids?

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
Сейчас, на протяжении десятилетий, у нас есть правительство, которое выступает на стороне богатых и влиятельных. Оно было на стороне богатых. А это означает, что оно не было на стороне всех остальных, не было на стороне людей, живущих в наших резервациях коренных американцев, людей, живущих во внутренних городах, людей, живущих на маленьких фермах и в маленьких общинах по всей стране.

Сенатор Элизабет Уоррен:
How do we beat it? We beat it by being the party of big structural change. Give people a reason to show up and vote. We beat it by building a grassroots movement across this country, not showing up behind closed doors with millionaires, but actually building it, person by person, across this country with small dollar donations, with volunteers, with people who show up and say, “I have a stake in this democracy.” I will not only beat Donald Trump in 2020, I’ll start to make real change, come 2021.

Джейк Таппер:
Сенатор Сандерс?

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
As somebody who grew up in a family that lived in a rent-controlled apartment in Brooklyn, New York, and lived paycheck to paycheck, I’m running for president not just to defeat the most dangerous president in the history of this country – a guy who’s a racist, and a sexist, and a homophobe – I’m running to transform this country and to stand with the working class of America, which for the last 45 years has been decimated.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
Two days ago, I had a remarkable experience, which should tell you everything you need to know about what’s going on in America. I took 15 people with diabetes from Detroit a few miles into Canada, and we bought insulin for one-tenth the price being charged by the crooks who run the pharmaceutical industry in America today. But it’s not just the price fixing, and the corruption, and the greed of the pharmaceutical industry. It’s what’s going on in the fossil fuel industry. It’s what’s going on in Wall Street. It’s what’s going on with the prison industrial complex.

Сенатор Берни Сандерс:
We need a mass political movement. Please go to BernieSanders.com, become one of our million volunteers. Stand up and take on the greed, and corruption of the ruling class of this country. Let’s create a government and an economy that works for all of us, not just the one percent.

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