完整的文字记录。Joe Rogan Experience #1169 - Elon Musk

Joe Rogan Experience #1169 - Elon Musk

: 啊，哈，哈，哈。四，三，二，一，轰。谢谢你。谢谢你做这个，伙计。真的很感谢。

: You’re welcome.

: It’s very good to meet you.

: 也很高兴见到你。

: 并感谢你没有把这个地方点燃。

: You’re welcome. That’s coming later.

: How does one, just in the middle of doing all the things you do, create cars, rockets, all the stuff you’re doing, constantly innovating, decide to just make a flamethrower? Where do you have the time for that?

: Well, the flame, we didn’t put a lot of time into the flamethrower. This was an off-the-cuff thing. It’s sort of a hobby company called the Boring Company, which started out as a joke, and we decided to make a real, and dig a tunnel under LA. And then, other people asked us to dig tunnels. And so, we said yes in a few cases.

: 现在，谁--

: And then, we have a merchandise section that only has one piece of merchandise at a time. And we started off with a cap. And there was only one thing on, which is BoringCompany.com/hat. That’s it. And then, we sold the hats, limited edition. It just said, “The Boring Company.”

: And then, I’m a big fan of Spaceballs, the movie. And in Spaceballs, Yogurt goes through the merchandising section, and they have a flamethrower in the merchandising section of Spaceballs. And, like, the kids love that one. That’s the line when he pulls up the flamethrower. It’s like, “We should do a flamethrower.” So, we-

: Does anybody tell you no? Does anybody go, “Elon, maybe for yourself, but selling a flamethrower, the liabilities, all the people you’re selling this device to, what kind of unhinged people are going to be buying a flamethrower in the first place? Do we really want to connect ourselves to all these potential arsonists?

: Yeah, it’s a terrible idea. It’s terrible. Don’t buy one. I said, “Don’t buy this flamethrower. Don’t buy it. Don’t buy it.” That’s what I said, but, still, people bought it.

: 是的。

: There’s nothing I can do to stop them. I did not stop them.

: 你建立它，他们就会来。

: I said, “Don’t buy it. It’s a bad idea.”

: 你做了多少个？

: It’s dangerous. It’s wrong. Don’t buy it. And, still, people bought it. I just couldn’t stop them.

: 你做了多少个？

: 20,000.

: And they’re all gone?

: 在三天--我想，四天。他们在四天内就卖光了。

: 你打算再跑一次吗？

: 没有。

: No, that’s it?

: 是的。

: 哦，我明白了。

: I said we’re doing 20. We did 50,000. 50,000 hats, and that was a million dollars. I thought, “Okay. Well, we’ll sell something for 10 million,” and that was 20,000 flamethrowers at $500 each. They went fast.

: Yeah. How do you have the time? How do you have the time to do that though? I mean, I understand that it’s not a big deal in terms of all the other things you do, but how do you have time to do anything? I just — I don’t understand your time management skills.

: I mean, I didn’t spend much time on this flamethrower. I mean, to be totally frank, it’s actually just a roofing torch with an air rifle cover. It’s not a real flamethrower.

: Which is why it says, “Not a flamethrower.”

: That’s why we were very clear, this is not actually a flamethrower. And, also, we are told that various countries would ban shipping of it, that they would ban flamethrowers. So, we’re very — To solve this problem for all of the customs agencies, we labeled it, “Not a flamethrower.”

: 它起作用了吗？它有效吗？

: I don’t know. I think so. Yes.

: 到目前为止。

: 是的。

: 现在，但你...

: 因为他们说你不能运送喷火器。

: 但你做了这么多不同的事情。忘了喷火器吧。比如，你怎么做所有其他的事情？比如，如何决定通过在地上打洞来解决洛杉矶的交通问题？你甚至可以用它来接近谁？比如，当你有这个想法时，你会和谁谈这个问题？

: I mean, I’m not saying it’s going to be successful or something, you know. It’s not like asserting that it’s going to be successful. But so far, I’ve lived in LA for 16 years, and the traffic has always been terrible. And so, I don’t see any other, like, ideas for improving the traffic. So, in desperation, we’re going to dig a tunnel. And maybe that tunnel will be successful and maybe it won’t.

: I’m listening.

: Yeah. I’m not trying to convince you it’s going to work.

: 而这些人是你...

: 我是说，或任何人。

: But you are starting this though. This is actually a project you’re starting to implement, right.

: Yeah, yeah, no. We’ve dug about a mile. It’s quite long. It takes a long time to walk it.

: Yeah. Now, when you’re doing this, what is the ultimate plan? The ultimate plan is to have these in major cities, and anywhere there’s mass congestion, and just try it out in LA first?

: Yeah. It’s in LA because I mostly live in LA. That’s the reason. It’s a terrible place to dig tunnels. This is one of the worst places to dig tunnels mostly because of the paperwork. You all think it’s like, “What about seismic?” It’s like, actually, both tunnels are very safe in earthquakes.

: 这是为什么呢？

: Earthquakes are essentially a surface phenomenon. It’s like waves on the ocean. So, if there’s a storm, you want to be in a submarine. So, being in a tunnel is like being in a submarine. Now, the way the tunnel is constructed, it’s constructed out of these interlocking segments, kind of like a snake. It’s sort of like a snake exoskeleton with double seals.

: And so, even when the ground moves, the tunnel actually is able to shift along with the ground like an underground snake, and it doesn’t crack or break. And it’s extremely unlikely that both seals would be broken. And it’s capable of taking five atmospheres of pressure. It’s waterproof, methane-proof, well, gas-proof of any kind, and meets all California seismic requirements.

: 所以，当你有这个想法时，你会把它带给谁？

: I’m not sure what you mean by that.

: Well, you’re implementing it. So, you’re digging holes in the ground.

: 是的。

: 比如，你必须把它带到让你做的人那里。

: Yes. There are some engineers from SpaceX who thought it would be cool to do this. And the guy who runs it, like, day-to-day is Steve Davis. He’s a longtime SpaceX engineer. He is great. So, Steve was like, “I’d like to help make this happen.” I was like, “Cool.” So, we started off with digging a hole in the ground. It’s got like a permit for a pit, like pit, and just dug a big pit.

: And you have to tell them what the pit’s for, or you just said, “Hey, we just want to dig a hole.”

: 我刚刚填写了这个表格。

: That’s it?

: 是的，那是我们停车场的一个坑。

: 但是，你必须给他们一些关于你最终想法的蓝图吗？而且他们必须批准吗？比如，那是怎么做的？

: 现在。我们只是从一个坑开始。

: 好的。

: A big pit. And, you know, it’s not really — You know, they don’t really care about the existential nature of a pit. You just say like, “I want a pit.”

: 对。

: Yeah. And it’s a hole in the ground. So then, we got the permit for the pit, and we dug the pit, and we dug it in, like, I don’t know, three days, two to three days. Actually, I think two, 48 hours, something like that because Eric Carr said he was coming by for the Hype. He’s going to attend the Hyperloop Competition. which is like a student competition we have for who can make the fastest part in the Hyperloop. And he was coming.

: The finals are going to be on Sunday afternoon. And so, Eric is coming by on Sunday afternoon. He’s like, “You know, we should dig this pit, and then like show Eric.” So, this was like Friday morning. And then, yeah. So, it’s about a little over 48 hours later, we dug the pit. There was like wind 24/7. Oh, 24. 48 straight hours, something like that. And dug this big pit, and we’re like, “Show Eric the pit.” It’s like, obviously, it’s just a pit. But, hey, a hole in the ground is better than no hole in the ground.

: 那你是怎么告诉他这个坑的？我是说，你刚才说这是这个想法的开始。

: 是的。

: We’re going to build tunnels under LA to help funnel traffic better.

: 是的。

: And they just go, “Okay.” But we’ve joked around about this in the podcast before to like what if a person can go to the people that run the city and go, “Hey, I want to dig some holes on the ground and put some tunnels in there,” and they go “Oh, yeah, okay.”

: 不是唯一有洞的人。

: But it’s a-

: 人们总是在地上挖洞。

: 但我的问题是，比如，我知道你一定在你的特斯拉工厂上花了多少时间。我知道你一定花了多少时间在SpaceX上。然而，你仍然有时间在洛杉矶的地下挖洞，想出这些想法，然后实施它们。比如说

: 我有一百万个想法。

: I’m sure you do.

: There’s no shortage of that. Yeah.

: I just don’t know how you manage your time. I don’t understand it. It doesn’t seem — It doesn’t even seem humanly possible.

: You know, I do, basically — I think, people, like, don’t totally understand what I do with my time. They think, like, I’m a business guy or something like that. Like my Wikipedia page says business magnate.

: 你会怎么称呼自己？

: 一块商业磁铁。谁能把我的维基百科页面改成磁铁？

: They’ll change it for you.

: 请更换。

: Right now, it’s probably already changed.

: It’s locked. So, somebody has to be able to unlock it and change it to magnet.

: 有人会得到这一点。

: I want to be a magnet. No, I do engineering, you know, and manufacturing, and that kind of thing. That’s like 80% or more of my time.

: 思想，然后是这些思想的实施。

: 这些都是硬核工程，就像...

: 是的。

: ...设计东西，你知道。

: 对。

: It’s structural, mechanical, electrical, software, user interface, engineering, aerospace engineering.

: But you must understand there’s not a whole lot of human beings like you. You know that, right? You’re an oddity-

: 是的。

: ...对像我这样的黑猩猩来说。

: We’re all chimps.

: 是的，我们是。

: We’re one notch. One notch above a chimp.

: Some of us are a little more confused. When I watch you doing all these things, I’m like, “How does this motherfucker have all this time, and all this energy, and all these ideas, and then people just let him do these things?”

: Because I’m an alien.

: That’s what I’ve speculated.

: 是的。

: Then, I’m on record saying this in the past. I wonder.

: It’s true.

: I mean, if there was one? I was like, “If there was, like, maybe an intelligent being that we created, you know, like some AI creature that’s superior to people, maybe it’s just hanging around with us for a little while like you’ve been doing, and then fix a bunch of shit.” I mean, that’s the way.

: 我可能有一些变异或类似的东西。

: 你可能会。你认为你会吗？

: 可能是这样。

: Do you wonder? Like, around normal people, you’re like, “Hmm.” Think, “What’s up with these boring dumb motherfuckers?” ever?

: 对于人类来说，这并不坏，但是，我认为，我将无法与人工智能相提并论。

: 当你谈到你和萨姆-哈里斯之间的人工智能时，你把我吓了一跳。

: 哦，当然。

: I didn’t consider it until I had a podcast with Sam once.

: That’s great.

: And he made me shit my pants. Talking about AI, I realized, like, “Oh, this is a genie that once it’s out of the bottle, you’re never getting it back in.”

: 这倒是真的。

: 你在推特上有一段关于波士顿动态机器人之一的视频。

: 是的。

: And you’re like, “In the future, it will be moving so fast, you can’t see it without a strobe light.”

: 是的。你可能现在就能做到这一点。

: And no one’s really paying attention too much other than people like you, or people that are really obsessed with technology, all these things are happening. And these robots are — Do you see the one where PETA put out a statement that you shouldn’t kick robots?

: It’s probably not wise.

: 为了报应。

: 他们的记忆力非常好。

: I bet it’s really good.

: It’s really good.

: 我敢打赌，它是。

: 是的。

: 而且每天都在变得更好。

: It’s really good.

: 你真的合法地关注这个问题吗？你是否--比如，人工智能是你对未来的主要担忧之一？

: Yes. It’s less of a worry than it used to be, mostly due to taking more of a fatalistic attitude.

: So, you used to have more hope, and you gave up some of it. And, now, you don’t worry as much about AI. You’re like, “This is just what it is.”

: 相当多。是的，是的，是的。

: 难道不是这样吗？是，但不是。

: It’s not necessarily bad. It’s just it’s definitely going to be outside of human control.

: 不一定是坏事，对吗？

: Yes. It’s not necessarily bad. It’s just outside of human control. Now, the thing that’s going to be tricky here is that it’s going to be very tempting to use AI as a weapon. It’s going to be very tempting. In fact, it will be used as a weapon. So, the on ramp to serious AI, the danger is going to be more humans using it against each other, I think, most likely. That will be the danger. Yeah.

: How far do you think we are from something that can make its own mind up whether or not something’s ethically or morally correct, or whether or not it wants to do something, or whether or not it wants to improve itself, or whether or not it wants to protect itself from people or from other AI? How far away are we from something that’s really truly sentient?

: Well, I mean, you could argue that any group of people, like a company is essentially a cybernetic collective of people and machines. That’s what a company is. And then, there are different levels of complexity in the way these companies are formed. And then, there’s a sort of like a collective AI in the Google, sort of, Search, Google Search, you know, where we’re all sort of plugged in as like nodes on the network, like leaves on a big tree.

: And we’re all feeding this network with our questions and answers. We’re all collectively programming the AI. And Google Plus, all the humans that connect to it, are one giant cybernetic collective. This is also true of Facebook, and Twitter, and Instagram, and all the social networks. They’re giant cybernetic collectives.

: 人类和电子产品都在相互作用，而且现在不断地，不断地连接。

: 是的，不断地。

: One of the things that I’ve been thinking about a lot over the last few years is that one of the things that drives a lot of people crazy is how many people are obsessed with materialism and getting the latest greatest thing. And I wonder how much of that is — Well, a lot of it is most certainly fueling technology and innovation. And it almost seems like it’s built into us. It’s like what we like and what we want that we’re fueling this thing that’s constantly around us all the time.

: And it doesn’t seem possible that people are going to pump the brakes. It doesn’t seem possible at this stage where we’re constantly expecting the newest cellphone, the latest Tesla update, the newest MacBook Pro. Everything has to be newer and better. And that’s going to lead to some incredible point. And it seems like it’s built into us. It almost seems like it’s an instinct that we’re working towards this, that we like it. Our job, just like the ants build the anthill, our job is to somehow know how fuel this.

: Yes. I mean, I made this comment some years ago, but it feels like we are the biological bootloader for AI. Effectively, we are building it. And then, we’re building progressively greater intelligence. And the percentage of intelligence that is not human is increasing. And, eventually, we will represent a very small percentage of intelligence. But the AI is informed strangely by the human limbic system. It is, in large part, our id writ large.

: 怎么说呢？

: We mentioned all those things, the sort of primal drives. There’s all of the things that we like, and hate, and fear. They’re all there on the internet. They’re a projection of our limbic system. That’s true.

: No, it makes sense. And the thinking of it as a — I mean, thinking of corporations, and just thinking of just human beings communicating online through these social media networks in some sort of an organism that’s a — It’s a cyborg. It’s a combination. It’s a combination of electronics and biology.

: Yeah. This is — In some measure, like, it’s to the success of these online systems. It’s sort of a function of how much limbic resonance they’re able to achieve with people. The more limbic resonance, the more engagement.

: 而像可能Instagram比Twitter更诱人的原因之一。

: 肢体共鸣。

: 是的。你得到更多的图像，更多的视频。

: 是的。

: It’s tweaking your system more.

: 是的。

: Do you worry or wonder, in fact, of what the next step is? I mean, a lot of you didn’t see Twitter coming. You know, communicate with 140 characters or 280 now would be a thing that people would be interested in. Like it’s going to excel. It’s going to become more connected to us, right?

: Yes. Things are getting more and more connected. They’re, at this point, constrained by bandwidth. Our input/output is slow, particularly output. Output got worse with thumbs. You know, we used to have input with 10 fingers. Now, we have thumbs. But images are just, also, other way of communicating at high bandwidth. You take pictures and you send pictures to people. What sends, that communicates far more information than you can communicate with your thumb.

: 那么，在你身上发生了什么，你决定，或者说你采取了一种更宿命的态度？比如，有什么具体的事情吗，还是只是我们的未来不可避免？

: I try to convince people to slow down. Slow down AI to regulate AI. That’s what’s futile. I tried for years, and nobody listened.

: 这似乎是电影中的一个场景--

: 没有人听。

: … where the the robots are going to fucking takeover. You’re freaking me out. Nobody listened?

: 没有人听。

: No one. Are people more inclined to listen today? It seems like an issue that’s brought up more often over the last few years than it was maybe 5-10 years ago. It seemed like science fiction.

: Maybe they will. So far, they haven’t. I think, people don’t — Like, normally, the way that regulations work is very slow. it’s very slow indeed. So, usually, it will be something, some new technology. It will cause damage or death. There will be an outcry. There will be an investigation. Years will pass. There will be some sort of insights committee. There will be rule making. Then, there will be oversight, absolutely, of regulations. This all takes many years. This is the normal course of things.

: If you look at, say, automotive regulations, how long did it take for seatbelts to be implemented, to be required? You know, the auto industry fought seatbelts, I think, for more than a decade. It successfully fought any regulations on seatbelts even though the numbers were extremely obvious. If you had seatbelts on, you would be far less likely to die or be seriously injured. It was unequivocal. And the industry fought this for years successfully. Eventually, after many, many people died, regulators insisted on seatbelts. This is a — This time frame is not relevant to AI. You can’t take 10 years from a point of which it’s dangerous. It’s too late.

: And you feel like this is decades away or years away from being too late. If you have this fatalistic attitude, and you feel like it’s going — We’re in an almost like a doomsday countdown.

: It’s not necessarily a doomsday countdown. It’s a-

: 失去控制的倒计时？

: Out of control, yeah. People quote the singularity, and that’s probably a good way to think about it. It’s a singularity. It’s hard to predict like a black hole, what happens past the event horizon.

: Right. So, once it’s implemented, it’s very difficult because it would be able to-

: Once the genie is out of the bottle, what’s going to happen?

: 对。而且它将能够改进自己。

: 是的。

: That’s where it gets spooky, right? The idea that it can do thousands of years of innovation very, very quickly.

: 是的。

: 然后，这将是非常荒谬的。

: 可笑的是。

: We will be like this ridiculous biological shitting, pissing thing trying to stop the gods. “No, stop. We’re like living with a finite lifespan, and watching, you know, Norman Rockwell paintings.”

: It could be terrible, and it could be great. It’s not clear.

: 对。

: 但有一点是肯定的，我们将无法控制它。

: Do you think that it’s likely that we will merge somehow or another with this sort of technology, and it’ll augment what we are now, or do you think it will replace us?

: Well, that’s the scenario. The merge scenario with AI is the one that seems like probably the best. Like if-

: 对我们来说？

: Yes. Like if you can’t beat it, join it. That’s-

: 是的，是的。

: You know. So, from a long-term existential standpoint, that’s like the purpose of Neuralink is to create a high bandwidth interface to the brain such that we can be symbiotic with AI because we have a bandwidth problem. You just can’t communicate through fingers. It’s too slow.

: And where’s Neuralink at right now?

: I think. we’ll have something interesting to announce in a few months. That’s, at least, an order of magnitude better than anything else. I think better than, probably, anyone thinks is possible.

: 你现在能谈多少呢？

: I don’t want to jump the gun on that.

: But what’s like the ultimate? What’s the idea behind that? Like, what are you trying to accomplish with it? What would you like best case scenario?

: I think, best case scenario, we effectively merge with AI where AI serves as a tertiary cognition layer, where we’ve got the limbic system. Kind of the, you know, primitive brain essentially. You got the cortex. So, you’re currently in a symbiotic relationship. Your cortex and limbic system are in a symbiotic relationship. And, generally, people like their cortex, and they like their limbic system. I haven’t met anyone who wants to delete their limbic system or delete their cortex. Everybody seems to like both.

: And the cortex is mostly in service to the limbic system. People may think that the thinking part of themselves is in charge, but it’s mostly their limbic system that’s in charge. And the cortex is trying to make the limbic system happy. That’s what most of that computing power is. It’s launched towards, “How can I make the limbic system happy?” That’s what it’s trying to do.

: Now, if we do have a third layer, which is the AI extension of yourself, that is also symbiotic. And there’s enough bandwidth between the cortex and the AI extension of yourself, such that the AI doesn’t de facto separate. Then, that could be a good outcome. That could be quite a positive outcome for the future.

: 所以，它不会取代我们，而是会从根本上改变我们的能力？

: Yes. It will enable anyone who wants to have super human cognition, anyone who wants. This is not a matter of earning power because your earning power would be vastly greater after you do it. So, it’s just like anyone who wants can just do it in theory. That’s the theory. And if that’s the case then, and let’s say billions of people do it, then the outcome for humanity will be the sum of human will, the sum of billions of people’s desire for the future.

: 那几十亿人的认知能力增强了吗？

: 是的。

: 从根本上加强？

: 是的。

: And which would be — It — But how much different than people today? Like if you had to explain it to a person who didn’t really understand what you’re saying, like how much different are you talking about? When you say radically improved, like, what do you mean? You mean mind reading?

: It will be difficult to really appreciate the difference. It’s kind of like how much smarter are you with a phone or computer than without? You’re vastly smarter actually. You know, you can answer any question. If you connect to the internet, you can answer any question pretty much instantly, any calculation, that your phone’s memory is essentially perfect. You can remember flawlessly. Your phone can remember videos, pictures, everything perfectly. That’s the-

: Your phone is already an extension of you. You’re already a cyborg. You don’t even — What most people don’t realize, they are already a cyborg. That phone is an extension of yourself. It’s just that the data rate, the rate at which — The communication rate between you and the cybernetic extension of yourself, that is your phone and computer, is slow. It’s very slow.

: And that is like a tiny straw of information flow between your biological self and your digital self. And we need to make that tiny straw like a giant river. A huge high band with the interface. It’s an interface problem, data rate problem. It’s all the data rate problem that I think we can hang on to human machine symbiosis through the long term. And then, people may decide that they want to retain their biological self or not. I think they’ll probably choose to retain the biological self.

: 与某种雷-库兹韦尔的情景相比，他们把自己下载到电脑里？

: 你将在任何时候基本上被快照到一台电脑上。如果你的生物自我死亡，你也许可以直接上传到一个新的单位，从字面上看。

: Pass that whiskey. We’re getting crazy over here. This is getting ridiculous.

: 进入兔子洞。

: 抓住那个傻瓜。给我一些那个。这也太诡异了。看，如果我只是说说而已--

: I’ve been thinking about this for a long time, by the way.

: 我相信你。如果我在和一个人说话--顺便说一句，干杯。

: 干杯。这是一种伟大的威士忌。

: Thank you. I don’t know where this came. Who brought this to us?

: I’m trying to remember. I can’t-

: 有人把它给了我们。老营。无论它是谁--

: It’s good.

: ...谢谢。

: It’s good.

: Yeah, it is good. This is just inevitable. Again, going back to when you decided to have this fatalistic viewpoint. So, you weren’t — You tried to warn people. You talked about this pretty extensively. I’ve read several 面试 where you talked about this. And then, you just sort of just said, “Okay, it just is. Let’s just-” And, in a way, by communicating the potential for — I mean, for sure, you’re getting the warning out to some people.

: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was really going on the warning quite a lot. I was warning everyone I could. Yeah, I’ve met with Obama and just for one reason, like, “Better watch out.”

: 只谈人工智能。

: 是的。

: 他又是怎么说的呢？那么，希拉里呢？先担心她吧。嘘，各位，安静。

: 他听了。他当然听了。我会见了国会。我会见了--我参加了所有50位州长的会议，谈论了人工智能的危险。我和所有我可以谈的人谈话。似乎没有人意识到这是怎么回事。

: Is it that, or do they just assume that someone smarter than them is already taking care of it? Because when people hear about something like AI, it’s almost abstract. It’s almost like it’s so hard to wrap your head around it.

: 它是。

: 等到它发生时，就太晚了？

: Yeah. I think, they didn’t quite understand it, or didn’t think it was near term, or not sure what to do about it. And I said, like, you know, an obvious thing to do is to just establish a committee, government committee, to gain insight. You know, before you oversight, before you do make regulations, you should like try to understand what’s going on. And then, you have an insight committee. Then, once they learn what’s going on, you get up to speed. Then, they can make maybe some rules or proposed some rules. And that would be probably a safer way to go about things.

: It seems — I mean, I know that it’s probably something that the government’s supposed to handle, but it seems like I wouldn’t want the — I don’t want the government to handle this.

: 你想让谁来处理这个问题？

: 我希望你能处理这个问题。

: 哦，天哪。

: Yeah. I feel like you’re the one who could bring the bell better because if Mike Pence starts talking about AI, I’m like, “Shut up, bitch. You don’t know anything about AI. Come on, man. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about.” That’s just games.

: I don’t have the power to regulate other companies. I don’t if I’m supposed to, but you know.

: Right, but maybe companies could agree. Maybe there could be some sort of a — What I mean is we have agreements where you’re not supposed to dump toxic waste into the ocean, you’re not supposed to do certain things that could be terribly damaging, even though they would be profitable. Maybe this is one of those things.

: Maybe we should realize that you can’t hit the switch on something that’s going to be able to think for itself and make up its own mind as to whether or not it wants to survive or not, and whether or not it thinks you’re a threat, or whether or not it thinks you’re useless. Like, “Why do I keep this dumb finite life form alive? Why? Why keep this thing around? It’s just stupid. It just keeps polluting everything. It’s shitting everywhere it goes, lighting everything on fire, and shooting at each other. Why would I keep this stupid thing alive? Because, sometimes, it makes good music, you know. Sometimes it makes great movies. Sometimes it makes beautiful art, and sometimes — you know. Sometimes it’s cool to hang out with. Like with my-

: 是的，因为所有这些原因。

: 是的。对我们来说，这些都是很好的理由。

: 是的。

: But for anything objective standing outside that go, “This is definitely a flawed system.” This is like if you went to the jungle and you watch these chimps engage in warfare and beat each other with wooden sticks.

: 黑猩猩真的很卑鄙。

: They’re fucking real mean.

: They’re fucking mean.

: They’re real mean.

: 我看了一部电影，《黑猩猩》（Chimpanzee）。我以为它会像一些迪斯尼的东西。就像，圣母玛利亚。

: 那是什么电影？

: It’s called Chimpanzee.

: 这是一部纪录片吗？

: Yeah, yeah. It’s kind of like a documentary. I was like, “Damn, these chimps are mean.”

: They’re mean.

: 是的。

: 是的。

: They’re cruel.

: Yeah. They’re calculated. Yeah.

: 是的。

: 他们偷偷摸摸地接近对方，然后...

: Like, I didn’t realize chimps did calculated cruelty.

: 是的。

: I was pretty — I left that meeting kinda like, “This is dark.”

: Right. Well, we know better because we’ve advanced. But if we hadn’t, we’d be like, “Man, I don’t want to fucking live in a house. I like the chimp ways, bro. Chimp ways to go. This is it, man, chimp life. You know, we got-

: 简单的黑猩猩生活。

: Chimp life right now. But we, in a way, to the AI, might be like those chimps and like, “These stupid fucks launching missiles out of drones, and shooting each other underwater.” Like we’re crazy. We got torpedoes, and submarines, and fucking airplanes that drop nuclear bombs indiscriminately on cities. We’re assholes.

: 是的。

: They might go, “Why are they doing this?” It might, like, look at our politics, look at what we do in terms of our food system, what kind of food we force down each other’s throats. And they might go, “These people are crazy. They don’t even look after themselves.”

: I don’t know. I mean, how much do we think about chimps? Not much.

: 非常少。

: It’s like-

: It’s true.

: … these chimps are at war. This like look — It’s like groups of chimps just attack each other, and they kill each other. They torture each other. That’s pretty bad. They hunt monkeys. They’re — Like this is probably the most, but, you know. I mean, when was the last time you watched chimps?

: 我？

: 是的。

: 所有的时间。

: 你会的。

: You’re talking to the wrong guy.

: 好的。嗯，不幸的是，是的。

: This fucking podcast, dude, we’re talking about chimps every episode.

: It’s chimp city? Okay.

: People are laughing right now. Yeah, constantly. I’m obsessed.

: 好的。

: 我看过大卫-艾登堡关于黑猩猩的纪录片，他们在那里吃那些疣猴，把它们撕碎。

: 是的，这很粗糙。

: 我在很多很多年前就看到了这一点。

: It’s gruesome.

: 它只是改变了如何...

: 令人毛骨悚然。

: I go, “Oh, this is why people are so crazy. We came from that thing.”

: 是的，没错。

: 是的。

: 它就是疣鼻兽。

: 是的。

: 他们得到了，比如，更好的哲学。

: Yeah, they’re like swingers.

: 是的。

: 是的，他们真的是。他们似乎比我们更--甚至更文明。

: 他们似乎只是用性来解决一切问题。

: Yeah. The only rules they have is the mom won’t bang the son. That’s it.

: 好的。

: That’s it. Mom won’t bang her sons. They’re good women.

: 是的。

: 倭寇社区里的好女人。其他人都在敲锣打鼓。

: Yeah. I haven’t seen the Bonobo Movie.

: Well, they’re disturbing just at a zoo of bonobos at the zoo.

: They’re just constantly going.

: Constantly fucking, yeah. It’s all they do.

: It’s just one stuff.

: Yeah. And they don’t care, gay, straight, whatever. Let’s just fuck. What’s with these labels?

: I haven’t seen bonobos at a zoo. I just probably like-

: I don’t think I have either.

: 而不是在PJ部分。

: Yeah, I don’t think they have them at many zoos. We’ve looked at it before too, didn’t we?

: It’s probably pretty awkward.

: Yeah. I think that’s the thing. They don’t like to keep regular chimps at zoos because bonobos are just always jacking off and-

: 是的。

: 他妈的。

: 在圣地亚哥。

: What’s that? They have in San Diego?

: San Diego’s got some, yeah.

: 真的吗？有意思。

: 是的。

: 可能会把他们分开。是的。

: 我是说，一个笼子里有多少人，你知道吗？我当时想...

: 对。

: … “It’s going to be pretty intense.”

: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we’re a weird thing, you know. And I’ve often wondered whether or not we’re — you know, our ultimate goal is to give birth to some new thing. And that’s why we’re so obsessed with technology because it’s not like this technology is really — I mean, it’s certainly enhancing our lives too in a certain way, but, I mean, ultimately, is it making people happier right now? Most technology I would say no. In fact, you and I were talking about social media before this about just not having Instagram on your phone, and not dealing, and you feel better.

: Yes. I think, one of the issues with social media, it’s been pointed out by many people, is that, I think, maybe particularly Instagram people look like they have a much better life than they really do.

: 对。

: 所以-

: 通过设计。

: Yeah. People are posting pictures of when they’re really happy. They’re modifying those pictures to be better looking. Even if they’re not modifying the pictures, they’re, at least, selecting the pictures for the best lighting, the best angle. So, people basically seem they are way better looking than they basically really are.

: 对。

: And they’re way happier seeming than they really are. So, if you look at everyone on Instagram, you might think, “Man, there are all these happy beautiful people, and I’m not that good looking, and I am not happy. So, I must suck,” you know. And that’s going to make you feel sad; when, in fact, those people you think are super happy, actually, not that happy. Some of them are really depressed. They’re very sad. Some of the happiest-seeming people are actually some of the saddest people in reality. And nobody looks good all the time. It doesn’t matter who you are.

: No. It’s not even something you should want.

: 是的。

: 为什么你想一直看起来很好？

: Yeah, exactly. So, I think things like that can make people quite sad just by comparison because you’re sort of — People generally think of themselves relative to others. It’s like we are constantly re-baselining our expectations. And you can see to say if you watch some show like Naked and Afraid, or, you know, if you just go and try living in the woods by yourself for a while, and you’re like, “The land that civilization is quite great.” People want to come back to civilization pretty fast on Naked or Afraid.

: Wasn’t there a Theodore quote, that “Comparison is the thief of joy.”

: 是的，幸福是现实减去期望。

: That’s great too, but the comparison is the thief of joy really holds true to people. Is it?

: 西奥多-罗斯福。

: Roosevelt, fascinating. And when you’re thinking about Instagram, because what essentially Instagram is for a lot of people is you’re giving them the opportunity to be their own PR agent, and they always go towards the glamorous, you know. And when anybody does show, you know, #nofilter, they really do do that. “Oh, you’re so brave. Look at you, no makeup,” you know, which they look good anyway.

: “You look great. What are you doing? Oh my God. You don’t have makeup on. You still look hot as fuck. You know what you’re doing. I know what you’re doing too.” They’re letting you know. And then, they’re feeding off that comment section. Sort of sitting there like it’s a fresh stream of love. Like you’re getting right up to the sources as it comes out of the earth, and you’re sucking that sweet, sweet love water.

: 大量的表情符号，烟雾缭绕的表情符号。

: 是的。

: 大量的表情符号。

: My concern is not so much what Instagram is. It’s that I didn’t think that people had the need for this or the expectation for some sort of technology that allows them to constantly get love and adulation from strangers, and comments, and this ability to project this sort of distorted version of who you really are.

: But I worry about where it goes. Like what’s the next one? What’s the next one? Like, where’s is it? Is it going to be augmented to some sort of a weird augmented or virtual sort of Instagram type situation where you’re not going to want to live in this real world, you’re going to want to interface with this sort of world that you’ve created through your social media page and some next level thing.

: 是的。在模拟中生活吧。

: 是的，伙计。

: 在模拟中。

: Some ready player one type shit that’s real. That seems — we have that HTC vibe here. I’ve only done it a couple times quite honestly because it kind of freaks me out.

: 当然。

: My kids fucking love it, man. They love it. They love playing these weirdo games and walking around that headset on. But part of me watching them do it goes, “Wow, I wonder if this is like the precursor.” Just sort of like if you look at that phone that Gordon Gekko had on the beach and you compare that-

: 是的，大手机。

: 是的，你把它配到像Galaxy Note 9。

: 当然。

: Like how the fuck did that become that, right? And I wonder when I see this HTC Vibe, I’m like, “What is that thing going to be 10 years from now when we’re making fun of what it is now?” I mean, how ingrained, and how connected and interconnected is this technology going to be in our life?

: 在某些时候，它将与现实无法区分。

: We will lose this. We’ll lose this. Like you and I are just looking at each other through our eyes.

: 我们是吗？

: 我看到了你。你看到我，我想，我希望。

: 你这么认为吗？

: 我想你可能有普通的眼睛。

: 这可能是一些模拟。

: 它可以。你接受这种说法吗？

: Well, the argument for the simulation, I think, is quite strong because if you assume any improvements at all over time, any improvement, 1%, 0.1%, just extend the time frame, make it a thousand years, a million years. The universe is 13.8 billion years old. Civilization, if you count it, if you’re very generous, civilization is maybe 7000 or 8000 years old if you count it from the first writing. This is nothing. This is nothing.

: 因此，如果你假设有任何改进的速度，那么游戏将与现实无异，或者文明将结束。这两件事中的一件会发生。因此，我们很可能是在一个模拟中。

: Or we’re on our way to one, right?

: 因为我们的存在。

: 嗯，不只是因为我们的存在。

: 相当准确。

: We could most certainly be on the road. We could be on the road to that, right. it doesn’t mean that it has to have already happened.

: 这可能是在基础现实中。它可能是在基础现实中。

: We could be here now on our way to the road or on our way to the destination where this can never happen again, where we are completely ingrained in some sort of an artificial technology or some sort of a symbiotic relationship with the internet or the next level of sharing information. But, right now, we’re not there yet. That’s possible too, right? It’s possible that a simulation is, one day, going to be inevitable, that we’re going to have something that’s indistinguishable from regular reality, but maybe we’re not there yet. That’s also possible.

: 是的，它是。

: Though we’re not quite there yet. This is real. You want to touch that wood?

: 它感觉非常真实。

: Maybe that’s why everybody is like into like mason jars and shit.

: 梅森罐子。

: 麂皮鞋。喜欢工艺餐厅的人，他们想要原木。每个人都想要金属的人。看起来人们像是在向一些奇怪的木屋式的怀旧生活憧憬。

: 当然，现实。

: 是的，就像坚持。就像依附在一起。

: 当然。

: Dragging their nails through the man like, “Don’t take me yet.”

: 是的。

: “I want to-“

: But then, people go get a mason jar with a wine stem or a handle. That’s dark.

: 这让我...

: 这让我对人类失去信心。

: 梅森罐，酒杆和手柄，他们有这些吗？

: 是的。

: The sturdy people. That’s just assholes. That’s like people make pet rocks.

: 粗糙的。

: 对。有些人就是混蛋。他们利用了我们慷慨的天性。

: 它是用酒杆做的。用手柄做的。

: 他们把它变成了那样？

: Yes. They’re manufactured like that.

: 所以，有一个办法，他们把它焊在砖瓦罐上。你他妈的。

: 但是，如果有像胶水一样的东西粘在上面或其他东西，那就好了。

: 对。会有像...

: 但它是这样做的。

: 像垃圾一样的狗屎。哦，这真让人恶心。看看这个。它就在那里。

: Yes, it’s pretty harsh. Yup.

: This is terrible. Yeah. That’s like fake breasts that are designed to be hard. Like fake breasts from the ’60s. It’s like if you really long for the ones with ripples, here we go. Yeah. That’s almost what that is.

: 是的。

: What are you going to do, man? There’s nothing, you know. There’s nothing you can do to stop certain terrible ideas from propagating.

: Yeah. Anyway, I don’t want to sound like things are too dark because I think like you kind of have to be optimistic about the future. There’s no point in being pessimistic. It’s just too negative because it is-

: It doesn’t help.

: It doesn’t help, you know. I think you want to be — I mean, my theory is like you’d rather be optimistic. I think, I’d rather be optimistic and wrong than pessimistic and right.

: 对。

: At least, we’re on that side.

: 对，是的。

: Because if you’re pessimistic, it’s going to be miserable.

: Yeah. Yeah, nobody wants to be around you anyway if it’s the end of the world. You’re like, “I fucking told you, bro.”

: 是的，没错。

: 世界正在结束。是的，它的方式是--它是为所有人服务的。

: 我做了我的工作。

: 我的意思是-

: 享受这段旅程。

: Right. If you really want to get morose, I mean, it is what it is for all of us anyway. We’re all going to go, unless something changes.

: 是的。

: I mean, ultimately, you know, even if we just sort of existed as humans forever, we’d still eventually would be like the heat death of the universe-

: 从现在开始的几十亿年。

: 对，即使我们让它通过太阳。

: 是的。

: 如果我们想出一个办法，让太阳的能量耗尽。

: Eventually, it’s going to end. It’s just a question of when.

: 对。

: 因此，这真的是关于旅程的一切。

: Or transcendence from whatever we are now into something that doesn’t worry about death.

: 我们所知道的宇宙，最终将消散成一团冰冷的虚无的细雾。

: And then, someone’s going to bottle it and put a fragrance to it, sell it to French people in another dimension.

: It’s just a very long time.

: 是的。

: So, I think it’s really just about, how can we make it last longer?

: Are you a proponent of the multi-universe’s theory? Do you believe that there are many, many universes, and that even if this one fades out that there’s other ones that are starting fresh right now, and there’s an infinite number of them, and they’re just constantly in a never-ending cycle of birth and death?

: 我认为最有可能。这只是关于概率的问题。有很多很多的模拟。这些模拟，我们不妨称之为现实，或者我们可以称之为多元宇宙。

: 你相信的这些模拟，就像有人制造了----。

: They’re running on the substrate.

: 所以-

: 这个底层可能很无聊。

: 无聊？

: 嗯哼。

: 怎么说呢？

: Well, when we create a simulation like a game or a movie, it’s the distillation of what’s interesting about life. You know, it takes a year to shoot an action movie. And then, that’s all to slow down into two or three hours. So, let me tell you, if you’ve seen an action movie being filmed, it’s freaking — It’s boring. It’s super boring. It takes — There’s like lots of takes. Everything’s in a green screen. It looks pretty goofy. It doesn’t look cool. But once you had the CGI, and have great editing, it’s amazing.

: So, I think, most likely, if we’re a simulation, it’s really boring outside the simulation because why would you make simulation as boring? You’d make simulation way more interesting than base reality.

: 那就是如果现在这个是模拟的话。

: 是的。

: And, ultimately, inevitably, as long as we don’t die or get hit by a meteor, we’re going to create some sort of simulation if we continue on the same technological path we’re on right now.

: 是的。

: 但我们可能还没到那一步。所以，它可能不是这里的模拟。但它很可能是你觉得其他地方。

: 这种地方或哪里的概念是

: 有缺陷？

: 是的。

: 有缺陷的认知。

: Like that if you have that, sort of, that vibe you have, which is for the — that’s was made by valve, and it’s really valve that made it. HTC did the hardware, but it’s really a valve thing.

: 半衰期》的制作者。

: 是的。伟大的公司。

: 伟大的公司。

: When you’re in that virtual reality, which is only going to get better, where are you? Where are you really?

: 对。

: You aren’t anywhere.

: 嗯，而--

: You’re in the computer.

: 你知道，什么决定了你的位置？

: 正是如此。

: 对。

: It’s your perception.

: Is it your perceptions or is it, you know, a scale that we have under your butt. You’re right here. I’ve measured you. You’re the same weight as you were when you left. But meanwhile, your experience is probably different-

: Why do you think you’re where you are right now? You might not be.

: I’ll buck up a joint if you keep talking. Your man is just going to come in here. We might have to lock the door.

: Right now, you think you’re in a studio in LA.

: That’s what I heard.

: 你可能在电脑中。

: Man, I think about this all the time. Yeah, I mean, it’s unquestionable that one day that will be the case, as long as we keep going, as long as nothing interrupts us, and if we start from scratch, and, you know, we’re single-celled organisms all over again. And then, millions and millions of years later, we become the next thing that is us with creativity and the ability to change this environment. It’s going to keep monkeying with things until it figures out a way to change reality. To change — I mean, almost like punch a hole through what is this thing into what what it wants it to be and create new things. And then, those new things will intersect with other people’s new things, and there will be this ultimate pathway of infinite ideas and expression all through technology.

: 是的。

: And then, we’re going to wonder like, “Why are we here? What are we doing?”

: Let’s find out.

: 好吧-

: 我的意思是，我认为我们应该采取的行动，是最有可能使未来更好的一套行动。

: 是的，没错。

: 是的。

: Right. Right. And then, we evaluate those actions to make sure that it’s true.

: Well, I think there’s a movement to that. I mean, in terms of like a social movement. I think some of it’s misguided, and some of it’s exaggerated, and there’s a lot of people that are fighting for their side out there. But it seems like the general trend of, like, social awareness seems to be much more heightened now than has ever been in any other time in history because of our ability to express ourselves instantaneously to each other through Facebook, or Twitter, or what have you. And that the trend is to abandon preconceived notions, abandon prejudice, abandon discrimination, and promote kindness and happiness as much as possible. Looking at this knife? Somebody gave it to me. Sorry.

: 是的。这是什么？

: Fuck you. My friend, Donnie, brought this with him, and it just stayed here. I have a real samurai sword, if you want to play with that. I know you’re into weapons. That’s from the 1500s. Samurai’s something on the table.

: 很好。

: 是的。

: 这很好。

: I’ll grab it. Hold on. Yeah, that’s legit samurai sword from an actual samurai from the 1500s. If you pull out that blade, that blade was made the old way where a master craftsman-

: 折叠的金属？

: Folded that metal and hammered it down over and over again over a long period of time, and honed that blade into what it is now. What’s crazy is that more than 500 years later, that thing is still pristine. I mean, whoever took care of that and passed it down to the next person who took care of it, and you know until it got to the podcast room, it’s pretty fucking crazy.

: 是的。

: One day, someone’s going to be looking at a Tesla like that. How many of these fucking backdoor they pop off sideways like a Lamborghini?

: They should see what the Tesla can do. He didn’t — You should — I’ll show you how to once.

: Well, I’ve driven one. I love them.

: Yeah, but most people don’t know what it can do.

: In terms like ludicrous mode? In terms of like driving super fast and irresponsibly on public roads, is that what you’re saying?

: 任何汽车都可以做到这一点。

: 是的。它能做什么，我需要知道？

: I mean, the Model X can do this like ballet thing to the Trans-Siberian Orchestra. It’s pretty cool.

: 等等，它在跳舞？

: 是的。

: 合法的，就像它的周围？

: 是的。

: 你为什么要把它编入汽车？

: 这看起来很有趣。

: That’s what I get about you. That’s what’s weird. Like when you showed up here, you were all smiles, and you pull out a fucking blowtorch and not a blowtorch, but I’m like, “Look at this-“

: 不是火焰喷射器。

: Not a flamethrower. Like, “He’s having fun.”

: I want to be clear, it’s definitely not a flamethrower.

: But you’re having fun. Like this thing, you know, you program a car to do a ballet dance, you’re having fun.

: It’s great.

: But how do you have the time to do that? I don’t understand why you’re digging holes under the earth, and sending rockets into space, and powering people in Australia. Like how the fuck do you have time to make the car dance ballet?

: Well, I mean, in that case there were some engineers at Tesla that said, “You know, what if we make this car dance and play music?” I’m like, “That sounds great. Please do it. Let’s try to get it done in time for Christmas.” We did.

: 是否担心有人会失去理智，让它在高速公路上这样做？

: No, it won’t do that.

: What if it’s in bumper-to-bumper traffic?

: 不对。

: No, it won’t do it?

: 不，实际上，你必须打喷嚏拖。

: 哦，打喷嚏的阻力。

: Yeah, that’s why people don’t know about it. But if you have the car-

: 好吧-

: It’s like it could do lots of things, lots of things.

: Once Reddit gets a hold of it, everyone’s going to know already.

: 你只需要--每个人，如果你在互联网上搜索，你就会发现。

: 他们会发现。

: But people don’t know that they should even search for it.

: 嗯，他们现在这样做了。

: 是的。

: 是的。

: There’s so many things about the Model X, and the Model S, and the Model 3 that people don’t know about. We should probably do a video or something to explain it because I have close friends of mine and I say, “Do you know the car can do this?” and they’re like, “Nope.”

: Do you want to do a video of that? Do you like the fact that some people don’t know?

: No, I think it’s probably not. We should tell people.

: 是的，可能。

: 是的。

: That would help your product. I mean, it’s not like you don’t sell enough of them. You sell almost too many of them, right.

: I mean, I think, a Tesla is the most fun thing you could possibly buy ever. That’s what it’s meant to be. Well, our goal is to make — It’s not exactly a car. It’s actually a thing to maximize enjoyment, make as maximum fun.

: 好的。电子，如大屏幕，笔记本电脑，荒谬的速度，处理，所有这些东西。

: 是的。

: 你是否有...

: And we’re going to put video games in it.

: 你是？

: 是的。

: 这是明智之举吗？

: 好吧-

: 什么类型的电子游戏？糖果粉碎机？

: You won’t be able to drive while you’re playing the video game. But, like, for example, we’re just putting the Atari emulator, RAM emulator in it. So, we’ll play a Missile Command, and Lunar Lander, and a bunch of other things. Yeah.

: 这听起来很酷。

: It’s pretty fun.

: 我喜欢这样。

: Yeah. I mean, probe the interface for Missile Command because it’s too hard with the old trackball. So, there’s a touch screen version of Missile Command. So, you have a chance.

: Do you — You have an old car, don’t you? Don’t you have like an old Jaguar?

: Yeah. How did you know that? Let’s pause for that. I have a ’61 series 1 E-type Jaguar.

: 我喜欢汽车。

: It’s great.

: 是的，我喜欢老式汽车。

: 唯一的

: That’s one of the things-

: 是的，我仅有的两辆加油车是那辆和一辆旧的--像福特T型车，是我的一个朋友给我的。这是我唯一的两辆汽油车。

: Is the Ford Model T all stock? Oh, there’s your car. Look at that.

: 我有敞篷车。

: 那是一辆华丽的汽车。

: It’s a soft car.

: God, that’s a good looking car.

: 是的。

: 这是你的吗？

: That is — It’s not mine. It’s extremely close to mine, but I don’t have a front license plate on mine.

: It’s a beautiful car. They nailed it. That new type-

: 我的看起来就像这样。

: 天啊，他们钉住了这一点。

: That’s what mine looks like. Maybe it is mine.

: There’s certain iconic shapes.

: 是的。

: And there’s something about those cars too. They’re not as capable, not nearly as capable as like a Tesla, but there’s something really satisfying about the mechanical aspect of like feeling the steering, and the-

: 是的。

: … grinding of the gears and the shifting. Something about those that’s extremely satisfying even though they’re not that competent. Like I have a 1993 Porsche 964. It’s like lightweight. It’s an RS America. It’s not very fast. It’s not like in comparison to a Tesla or anything like that. But the thing about it is like it’s mechanical, you feel it. Everything’s like-

: 当然。

: It’s like it gives you this weird thrill, like you’re on this clunky ride, and there’s all this feedback. There’s something to that.

: 是的。是的，绝对的。我是说，是的。我的E型车就像基本上没有电子产品。

: 是的。

: It’s-

: 因此，你喜欢这个，但你也喜欢电子产品。

: 是的。

: Like Tesla Sup, it’s like the far end of electronics.

: 是的。

: 它可以自己开车。

: It’s driving itself better every day.

: 是的。

: We’re about to release the software that will enable you to just turn it on, and it’ll drive from highway on ramp, to highway exit, do lane changes, overtake other cars-

: 天啊。

: 要从一个交汇处到下一个交汇处。如果你上了，比如说，405号公路，300英里后下车，经过几个高速路的交汇处，直接超越其他汽车，并挂上导航系统，然后--。

: And you’re just meditating, om.

: 是的。

: 当你的车只是在旅行时。

: It’s kind of eerie. It’s kind of eerie.

: What did you think when you saw that video of that dude fallen asleep behind the wheel? I’m sure you’ve seen it, the one in San Francisco. It’s like right outside of San Jose. It’s out cold, like this. And the cars an inch bumper-to-bumper in traffic moving along.

: 是的。

: You’ve seen it, right?

: Yeah, yeah. We just changed the software. Changed the software. That’s, I think, an old video. We changed software. If you don’t touch the wheel, it will gradually slow down, and put the emergency lights on, and wake you up.

: 哦，这太搞笑了。

: 是的。

: That’s hilarious.

: 是的。

: 你能选择什么声音来唤醒你吗？

: Well, it’s sort of more of a — It sort of honks.

: 它鸣笛。

: 是的。

: There should be like, “Wake up, fuckface. You’re endangering your fellow humans.”

: 我们可以用闷热的声音轻轻地叫醒你。

: That would be good like something with a southern accent. “Hey, wake up.”

: 醒醒吧，阳光。

: 嘿，亲爱的。

: 正是如此。

: Why don’t you wake up?

: 你可以选择你的-

: 对，就像...

: 就像你想要的那样。是的。

: 是的，我选择澳大利亚女孩做Siri。

: 是的。

: 我喜欢她的声音。

: 你希望它具有诱惑力吗？

: It’s my favorite. I like Australian.

: 什么味道？做你想让它生气的事。它可以是任何东西。

: 你想要那些澳大利亚监狱女士的基因。现在，当你把这样的东西编入程序时，这是对一个关切的回应，还是你自己的关切？

: 是的。

: Do look at it and go, “Hey, they shouldn’t just be able to fall asleep. Let’s wake them up.”

: Yeah, yeah. It’s like — You know, we’re like — Yeah, people are falling asleep. We’ve got to do something about that.

: Right. But when you first released it, you didn’t consider it, right? You’re just like, “Well, no one’s going to just sleep.”

: 人们经常在车里睡着。

: 所有的时间。

: 他们崩溃了。

: Yeah, it’s horrible.

: At least, our car doesn’t crash. That’s better.

: 是的。

: It’s better not to crash.

: 是的。

: 想象一下，如果那个人在汽油车里睡着了，他们总是这样。

: 当然，是的。

: 他们会撞上某人。

: 是的。

: And, in fact, the thing that really, you know, got me to — It’s like, “Man, we better get a autopilot going and get it out.” A guy was in an early Tesla driving down the highway, and he fell asleep, and he ran over a cyclist, and killed him. I was like, “Man, if we had autopilot, he might have fallen asleep, but, at least, he wouldn’t run over that cyclist.”

: 那么，你是如何实现它的？比如你只是用相机和...

: 是的。

: ......与系统编程，所以如果它看到图像，就会减慢速度？那你能得到多少时间？还有像--

: 是的。

: Is the person who’s in control of it allow the program to how fast it goes?

: 是的，是的，你可以对它进行编程，使其更多或更少，比如更保守或更积极的司机。你可以说你想让它以什么速度 - 什么速度可以。

: 我知道你有可笑的模式。你有冲洗袋模式吗？

: 好吧，在

: 它只是切断了人们的联系。

: Well, for lane changes, it’s tricky because if you’re in like LA, like unless you’re pretty aggressive, right, it’s hard to change lanes sometimes.

: You can’t. It’s hard to be Satnam. It’s hard to be Namaste here in LA.

: 是的。

: 如果你想在圣塔莫尼卡大道上打到......。

: I mean, you’ve got to be a little pushy.

: You’ve got to be a little pushy, yeah.

: 在高速公路上。

: 特别是在你生气的时候。

: 是的。

: If you’re a little angry, they don’t want you, and they speed up.

: Sometimes, yeah, I think, people like overall are pretty nice on the highway, even in LA, but sometimes they’re not.

: 你认为Neuralink会帮助这么快吗？

: 可能是这样。

: 每个人都会被锁在一起，这个蜂巢式思维。

: Tunnels will help it. We wouldn’t have traffic.

: 这将有很大的帮助。

: 是的。

: 你能在里面放多少个？

: 隧道的好处是-

: 你是在为大家考虑吗？

: 隧道的好处是你可以走3D。

: 哦，对了。

: 所以，你可以走很多层次。

: 对。

: 所以-

: 直到你击中。

: 是的，但你去--你可以有100层的与炸弹。

: Jesus Christ. I don’t want to be on 99. That would be a negative 99 floors.

: This is one of the fundamental things people don’t appreciate about tunnels is that it’s not like roads. The fundamental issue with roads is that you have a 2D transport system and a 3D living and workspace environment. So, you’ve got all these tall buildings or concentrated work environments. And then, you want to go into those like 2D transport system with-

: 效率极低。

: … pretty low density because cars are spaced out pretty far. And so, that, obviously, is not going to work. You’re going to have traffic guaranteed. But if you can go 3D on your transport system, then you can solve all traffic. And you can either go 3D up with a flying car, or you can go 3D down with tunnels. You can have as many tunnel levels as you want, and you can arbitrarily relieve any amount of traffic. You can go further down with tunnels than you can go up with buildings. You’re 10,000 feet down if you want. I wouldn’t recommended it, but-.

: What was that movie with — What’s his face? Bradley — Not Bradley Cooper, Christian? No. What the fuck is his name? Batman. Who is Batman?

: 克里斯蒂安-贝尔。

: 克里斯蒂安-贝尔，他们在那里与龙战斗。他和马修-麦康纳。他深入到地底下。你能走多深？

: I don’t think that was Batman.

: 是的，它是。是的，它是。

: Batman fought dragons? I don’t-

: No, it wasn’t Batman but it’s Christian Bale.

: 火之雨》。

: 火之雨。

: 好的。

: 没见过？

: 没有。

: 太可怕了。可怕但很好。我想过一段时间再看一下。

: I wouldn’t recommend drilling super far down but the earth is a big-

: Yeah, but you can’t drill deep. It gets hot, right?

: ...熔化的

: 是的。

: The earth is a giant ball of lava with a thin crust on the top, which we think of as like the surface, this thin crust. And it’s mostly just a big bowl of lava. That’s earth, but 10,000 feet is not a big deal.

: 你有没有考虑过平地运动呢？

: That’s a troll situation.

: Oh, it’s not. No, it’s not. You would like to think that-

: 好的。

: … because you’re super genius. But I, as a normal person, I know these people are way dumber than me. And they really, really believe. They watch YouTube videos, which go on uninterrupted, and spew out a bunch of fucking fake facts very eloquently and articulately. And they really believe. These people really believe.

: 我的意思是，如果这对他们有用，当然。好吧。

: It’s weird though, right, that in this age where, you know, there’s ludicrous mode in your car, goes 1.9 seconds, 060.

: That’s 2.2.

: 2.2. Which one’s 1.9? The Coaster.

: 下一代跑车。

: 好的。

: 标准版。

: Yeah, I’m on top of this shit.

: That’s just without-

: 标准版。

: Yeah. So, it’s not the performance package.

: 什么性能包？

: 是的。

: 你他妈的需要什么？

: 我们在里面装了一个火箭推进器。

: 是真的吗？

: 是的。

: 他们要烧什么？

: 没有什么。超高压压缩空气。

: 哇。只是空气？

: 就叫气体推进器。

: 那么，你是否有空气罐或...

: 是的。

: 吸气，好。

: 是的，它有一个电动泵。

: 哇哦。

: 把它抽得像10,000 PSI。

: 我们说的是多快？从零到60。

: 你想开多快？

: 我想去...

: 我们可以让这东西飞起来。

: 我想回到过去。

: 我可以让它飞起来。

: 你让它飞？

: 当然。

: Do you anticipate that as being — I mean, you’re talking about the tunnels and then flying cars. Do you really think that’s going to be real?

: Too noisy, and there’s too much airflow. So, the final issue with flying cars, I mean, if you get like one of those like toy drones, think of how loud those are and how much air they blow. Now, imagine if that’s like a thousand times heavier. This is not going to make your neighbors happy. Your neighbors are not going to be happy if you land a flying car in your backyard.

: 它将非常像直升飞机。

: Or on your roof. It’s just really going to be like, “What the hell. That was annoying.”

: 是的。

: You can’t even — Like, if you want a flying car, just put some wheels on a helicopter.

: Is there a way around that? Like what if they figure out some sort of magnetic technology, like all those Bob Lazar type characters who were thinking that was a part of the UFO technology they were doing at Area 51? Remember, didn’t they have some thoughts about magnetics? Nope.

: 没有？胡说八道？

: 是的。

: 真的吗？

: Yeah. There’s a fundamental momentum exchange with the air. So, you must accelerate. There’s like this — There’s a sudden — You have a mass, and you have gravitational acceleration. And mass times — Your mass times gravity must equal the mass of airflow times acceleration of that airflow to have a neutral force. MG=MA

: So, it’s impossible to go around-

: And then you won’t move.

: 好的。

: If MG is greater than MA, you will go down. And if MA is greater than MG, you will go up. That’s how it works.

: There’s just no way around that?

: 这绝对是没有办法的事。

: There’s no way to create some sort of a magnetic something or another that allows you to float?

: 从技术上讲，是的。你可以有一个足够强的磁铁，但这个磁铁会非常强，你会产生很多麻烦。

: 它就会把汽车吸到你的车里？就这样捡起车轴来做？

: I mean, it should have to repel off of either material on the ground or in a really nutty situation off of Earth’s gravitational field, and somehow make that incredibly light, but that magnet would cause so much destruction. You’d be better off with a helicopter.

: 那么，如果有某种磁石路，就像你有两块磁铁，它们互相排斥，如果你有某种磁石路，在你下面，你可以在那条磁石路上行驶，那就可以了？

: 是的，是的，你可以有一条磁路。

: 一条磁石路。这是不是太可笑了？

: 不，它可以工作。所以，你可以这样做。

: That’s ridiculous too, right?

: 我不会推荐它。

: There’s a lot of things you don’t recommend.

: 我超级不建议这样做。不太好。我想，这不是明智之举。

: 不是吗？

: 没有。

: 磁性道路？

: 不，不，不，绝对不行。绝对不行。是的，这将引起很多麻烦。

: 所以，你在这方面花了一些时间和考虑，而不是--你知道，反而像我愚蠢的渲染的想法。所以，你认为隧道是做这件事的方法？

: 哦，这肯定会起作用的。

: That’ll work?

: 是的。

: And these tunnels that you’re building right now, these are basically just like test versions of this ultimate idea that you have?

: You know, it’s just a hole in the ground.

: 对。我们播放了它的视频，其中你的想法-

: It’s just a hole in the ground.

: … that you drop that hole in the ground. There’s a sled on it, and the sled goes very fast, like 100 miles an hour plus.

: Yeah, it can go real fast. You can go as fast as you want. And then, if you want to go long distances, you can just draw the air out of the tunnel, make sure it’s real straight.

: 把空气从隧道里抽出来？

: Yeah, it’s sort of vacuum tunnel because the — And then, depending on how fast you want to go, you’re going to take these wheels, or you could use air bearings depending upon the ambient pressure in the tunnel, or you could mag lev it if you want to go super fast.

: 那么，磁路？

: 是的，地下磁路。

: 地下磁石路？

: Yeah. Otherwise, you’re going to really create a lot of trouble because of those metal things.

: 哦。所以，磁石路才是出路，只是在地下。

: 如果你想在地下走得非常快，你就会在真空隧道里做mag lev。

: 在真空隧道中的磁力。

: 真空隧道发射器中的磁悬浮。有趣吗？

: 用火箭发射器？

: 不，我不建议把任何

: 来吧。

: ... 隧道内的废气。

: Oh, okay. I see what you’re saying because then the air will be gone.

: 因为，那样的话，空气会把它抽出来。

: 对。你必须把它抽出来，而且你的空气量可能首先是有限的。比如你能呼吸多少？你必须把氧气抽到这些隔间里，这些管道里吗？

: No. We have a pressurized pod. It’d be like a little tiny underground spaceship basically.

: Like an airplane because you have air on airplanes. It’s not getting new air in.

: 它是。

: 它是什么？

: 是的。

: 你有像一个小洞吗？

: 是的，他们有一个泵。

: 真的吗？

: 是的。

: 那么，它是从外面得到的？

: 是的。

: Wow, I didn’t know that.

: It’s like the air’s — Airplanes have it easy because, essentially, you can — they’re pretty leaky, but-

: 天啊。

: Yeah, but as long as the air pump is working at a distance. I mean, they have backup pumps, sort of like, you know, three pumps, or four pumps, or something. And then, there’s like — It exhausts through the outflow valve and through whatever seals are not sealing quite right. Usually, the door doesn’t seal quite right on the plane. So, there’s a bit of leakage around the door. But the pumps exceed the outflow rate. And then, that sets the pressure in the cabin.

: Now, have you ever looked at planes and gone, “I can fix this.”

: 是的。

: “I just don’t have the time.”

: 我有一个飞机的设计。

: 是吗？

: 是的。

: 一个更好的设计？

: 我的意思是，可能。我认为是这样的，是的。

: 你和谁谈过这个问题？

: I’ve talked to friends.

: 朋友？

: 朋友和-

: I’m your friend.

: 女朋友和-

: You can tell me. What you got? What’s going on?

: 嗯，我的意思是，令人兴奋的事情将是某种电动垂直起飞和降落，某种超音速喷气机。

: 垂直起飞和降落意味着不需要跑道。只需在空中直射。

: 是的。

: 你会怎么做呢？我的意思是，他们在一些军用飞机上这样做，对吗？

: 是的，诀窍是，你必须过渡到平飞。然后，你用于垂直起飞和降落的东西不适合高速飞行。

: 那么，你有两个不同的系统？垂直起飞是一个系统？

: I’ve thought about this quite a lot. I’ve thought about this quite a lot.

: 好的。

: I guess, thinking about an electric plane is that you want to go as high as possible, but you need a certain energy density in the battery pack because you have to overcome gravitational potential energy. Once you’ve overcome gravitational potential energy, and you’re out at a high altitude, the energy use in cruise is very low. And then, you can recapture a large part of the gravitational potential energy on the way down. So, you really don’t need any kind of reserve fuel, if you will, because you have the energy of height, gravitational potential energy. This is a lot of energy.

: So, once you can get high, like the way to think about a plane is it’s a force balance. So, the force balance — So, a plane that is not accelerating is a neutral force balance. You have the force of gravity, you have the lift force, you have the wings. Then, you’ve got the force of the whatever thrusting device, so the propeller, or turbine, or whatever it is. And you’ve got the resistance force of the air.

: Now, the higher you go, the lower the air resistance is. Air density drops exponentially, but drag increases with the square, and exponential beats the square. The higher you go, the faster you will go for the same amount of energy. And at a certain altitude, you can go supersonic with less energy per mile, quite a lot less energy per mile than an aircraft at 35,000 feet because it’s just a force balance.

: I’m too stupid for this conversation.

: 但这是有道理的。

: No, I’m sure it does. Now, when you think about this new idea of of design, when you have this idea about improving planes, are you going to bring this to somebody and check this one out?

: 嗯，我有很多事情要做。

: Right. That’s what I’m saying. I don’t know how you do what you do now, but if you keep coming up with these. But it’s got to be hard to pawn this off on someone else either, like, “Hey, go do a good job with this vertical takeoff and landing system that I want to implement to regular planes.”.

: The airplane, electric airplane isn’t necessarily right now. Electric cars are important. We need-

: 我们需要某种...

: Solar energy is important. Stationary storage of energy is important. These things are much more important than creating electric supersonic futile. Also, the plane’s naturally — You really want that gravitational energy density for an aircraft, and this improving over time. So, you know, it’s important that we accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. That’s why electric cars, it matters whether electric cars happen sooner or later. You know, we’re really playing a crazy game here with the atmosphere or the oceans.

: 是的。

: We’re taking vast amounts of carbon from deep underground and putting this in the atmosphere. It’s just crazy. We should not do this. It’s very dangerous. So, we should accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. I mean, the bizarre thing is that, obviously, we’re going to run out of oil in the long term. You know, we’re going to — There’s only so much oil we can mine and burn. It’s totally logical. We must have a sustainable energy transport and energy infrastructure in the long term.

: So, we know that’s the endpoint. We know that. So, why run this crazy experiment where we take trillions of tons of carbon from underground and put it in the atmosphere and oceans? This is an insane experiment. It’s the dumbest experiment in human history. Why are we doing this? It’s crazy.

: Do you think this is a product of momentum that we started off doing this when it was just a few engines, a few hundred million gallons of fuel over the whole world, not that big of a deal? And then, slowly but surely over a century, it got out of control. And now, it’s not just our fuel, but it’s also, I mean, fossil fuels are involved in so many different electronics, so many different items that people buy. It’s just this constant desire for fossil fuels, constant need for oil-

: 是的。

: 没有考虑到可持续性。

: You know, the things like oil, oil, coal, gas, it’s easy money.

: 对。

: It’s easy money. So-

: Have you heard about clean coal? The president’s been tweeting about it. It’s got to be real. CLEAN COAL, all caps. Did you see? He used all caps. Clean coal.

: Well, you know, it’s very difficult to put that CO2 back in the ground. It doesn’t like being in solid form.

: 你有没有想过这样的事情？

: 这需要大量的能量。

: 就像某种过滤器，巨大的建筑物大小的过滤器将大气中的碳吸走？这有可能吗？

: No, no, it doesn’t. It’s not possible.

: 不是吗？

: 没有。

: 不是吗？

: 不，绝对不是。

: So, we’re fucked?

: No, we’re not fucked. I mean, this is quite a complex question.

: 对。

: You know, we’re really just — When we — The more carbon we take out of the ground and add to the atmosphere, and a lot of it gets permeated into the oceans, the more dangerous it is. Like I don’t think right — I think we’re okay right now. We can probably even add some more but the momentum towards sustainable energy is too slow.

: Like there’s a vast base of industry, vast transportation system. Like there’s Two and a half billion cars and trucks in the world. And the new car and truck production, if it was a 100% electric, that’s only about 100 million per year. So, it would take — If you could snap your fingers and instantly turn all cars and trucks electric, it would still take 25 years to change the transport base to electric. It makes sense because how long does a car and truck last before it goes into the junkyard and gets crushed? About 20 to 25 years.

: 是否有办法加快这一进程，比如说政府在财政上提供某种补贴或一些鼓励？

: Well, the thing that is going on right now is that there is an inherent subsidy in any oil-burning device. Any power plant or car is fundamentally consuming the carbon capacity of the oceans and atmosphere, or just the atmosphere for short. So, like, you can say, okay, there’s a certain probability of something bad happening past a certain carbon concentration in the atmosphere.

: And so, there’s some uncertain number where if we put too much carbon into the atmosphere, things overheat, oceans warm up, ice caps melt, ocean real estate becomes a lot less valuable, you know, if something’s underwater, but it’s not clear what that number is. But, definitely, scientists, it’s really quite — The scientific consensus is overwhelming. Overwhelming.

: I mean, I don’t know any serious scientist, actually zero, literally zero who don’t think, you know, that we have quite a serious climate risk that we’re facing. And so, that’s fundamentally a subsidy occurring with every fossil fuel burning thing, power plants, aircraft, car frankly even rockets. I mean, rockets use up — you know, they burn. They burn fuel. But there’s just — you know, with rockets, there’s just no other way to get to orbit unfortunately. So, it’s the only way.

: But with cars, there’s definitely a better way with electric cars. And to generate the energy, do so with photovoltaics because we’ve got a giant nuclear reactor in the sky called the sun. It’s great. It sort of shows up every day, very reliable. So, if you can generate energy from solar panels, store up with batteries, you can have energy 24 hours a day.

: 然后，你知道，你可以用，你知道，高压线发送到投票站或在空中发送到北方。世界上的大多数北方地区往往也有很多水电。但是，无论如何，所有以化石燃料为动力的东西都有一个固有的补贴，那就是它们对大气和海洋的碳容量的消耗。

: So, people tend to think like why should electric vehicles have a subsidy, but they’re not taking into account that all fossil fuel-burning vehicles fundamentally are subsidized by the cost, the environmental cost to earth, but nobody’s paying for it. We are going to pay for it, obviously. In the future, we’ll pay for it. It’s just not paid for now.

: 关于电动汽车和卡车，以及诸如此类的东西，瓶颈是什么？是电池容量问题吗？

: 是的。你必须扩大生产规模。你必须使汽车令人信服，使它比汽油或柴油车更好。

: Make it more efficient in terms of, like, the distance it can travel? You’re going to be fueling-

: Yeah, you’re going to be able to go far enough, recharge fast.

: And your Roadster, you’re anticipating 600 miles. Is that correct?

: 是的，是的。

: 它是什么？那是什么？

: 是的，600英里。

: 那是现在吗？比如说你现在开了一个600英里？

: No. We could totally make one right now that would do 600 miles, but the thing is too expensive. So, like the car’s got to-

: 有多大呢？

: Well, you know, just have a chartered kilowatt hour battery pack, and you can go 600 miles as long as you’re-

: 对，与你现在的情况相比，你有什么？

: 330-mile range. That’s plenty for most people.

: 330英里的范围。而以千瓦为单位，这意味着什么？

: 那么，这将是对于Model S来说，100千瓦时的电池组将做大约330英里。也许是335，因为有些人把它超温和到每英里500英里。

: 超温和吧。那是什么意思？

: 是的，就像这样去...

: 时速45英里还是什么？

: Yeah, like 30 miles an hour or so. It’s like on level ground with — You pump the tires up really well, and go on a smooth surface, and you can go for a long time. But, you know, like definitely comfortably do 300 miles.

: 是否有任何-

: This is fine for most people. Usually, 200 or 250 miles is fine. 300 miles is — You don’t even think about it really.

: Is there any possibility that you could use solar power, solar-powered one day, especially in Los Angeles? I mean, as you said about that giant nuclear reactor, a million times bigger than Earth just floating in the sky. Is it possible that one day, you’ll be able to just power all these cars just on solar power? I mean, we don’t ever have cloudy days if we do just three of them.

: 好吧，汽车的表面积是在不使汽车看起来真的是块状或有一些--的情况下。

: 像G型货车。

: 是的，就像如果它看起来有很大的表面积，或者像也许像太阳能电池板折叠出来，或一些--

: Like your E class. That’s what it needed.

: 那个E型？

: 是的，捷豹E型车有一个巨大的长引擎盖，那可能是一个巨大的太阳能板。

: Well, at the beginning of Tesla, I did want to have this like unfolding solar panel thing. They’d press a button, and it would just like unfold these solar panels, and like charge/recharge your car in the parking lot. Yeah, we could do that, but I think it’s probably better to just put that on your roof.

: 对，是的。

: And then, it’s going to — It should be facing the sun all the time because like-

: 什么车的车顶上有这个？

: 否则，你的车可能是在阴凉处。你知道，它可能在阴凉处，可能在车库里，或类似的东西。

: 对。

: 是的。

: Didn’t the Fisker have that on the roof? The Fisker Karma New Generation for — I believe, it was only for the radio. Is that correct?

: 是的，我的意思是，但我认为它可以像一天两英里或其他东西一样充电。

: 当他们被水击中时开始爆炸，你笑了吗？你还记得发生了什么吗？

: 他们得到了什么？

: 是的，他们有一个经销商或-

: 哦，是的。

: 菲斯克-卡玛斯被停放在......。

: 泽西岛的洪水也是这样吗？

: 是的，是的。

: 是的。

: When the hurricane came in, they got overwhelmed with water, and they all started exploding. There’s a fucking great video of it. Did you watch the video?

: I didn’t watch the video, but I did see — It’s like some picture of the aftermath.

: If I was you, I’d be naked, lubed up, watch that video, laugh my 屁股 off. They all blow up. They got wet, and they blew up. That’s not good.

: Yeah, we made our battery waterproof, so that doesn’t happen. Actually-

: 聪明之举。

: 是的，在哈萨克斯坦有一个人--我想是哈萨克斯坦，他只是划船通过一个隧道，一个水下隧道，就像一个被淹没的隧道，只是转动车轮来转向，并按下油门，它只是漂浮在隧道里。

: 哇。

: 他绕过其他车辆。我的意思是，像...

: That’s amazing.

: It’s on the internet.

: What happens if your car gets a little sideways, like if you’re driving in snow? Like what if you’re driving, if you’re autopilot is on, and you’re in like Denver, and it snows out, and your car gets a little sideways, does it correct itself? Does that-

: Oh yeah. It’s got great traction control.

: 但它知道如何喜欢正确吗？你知道如何，比如，当你的Ascend-

: 哦，是的，当然。

: ...踢，你知道如何反转向吗？

: Oh, yeah. No, it’s really good.

: 它知道怎么做吗？

: 是的。

: 哇哦。

: It’s pretty crazy.

: That’s pretty crazy.

: 是的。

: So, like if you’re going sideways, it knows how to correct itself?

: It generally won’t go sideways.

: It won’t?

: 没有。

: 为什么不呢？

: 它将在横盘前自我纠正。

: 即使是在黑眼睛里？

: Yeah. There’s videos where you could see the car, the traction-

: 并不孤单。

: Traction control system is very good. It makes you feel like Superman. It’s great. You like feel like you can — Like it’s — It will make you feel like this incredible driver.

: 我相信它。

: 是的。

: 现在，你是如何编程的？

: 我们确实在像瑞典的一个冰湖上进行了测试。

: 哦，真的吗？

: 是的。还有像挪威、加拿大，以及其他一些地方。

: 保时捷也做了很多这样的事情？他们...

: 他们也是这样做的？

: They do a lot of their — They do some of their driver training school on these frozen surfaces. So, you’re just — The car is going sideways whether you like it or not. And you have to learn how to slide into corners, and how do we test.

: 是的。电动汽车有非常好的牵引力控制，因为反应时间非常快。

: 对。

: Sort of like where you’re gassing a car, you’ve got a lot of latency. It takes a while for the engine to react, but for electric motors, incredibly precise. That’s why you’re like — You imagine like if you had like a printer or something, you wouldn’t have a gasoline engine printer. That would be pretty weird or like a surgical device. It’s going to be an electric motor on the surgical device on the printer. Gasoline engine’s going to be just chugging away. It’s not going to have the reaction time.

: But to an electric motor, it’s operating at the most second level. So, it can turn on and off traction within, like, inches of getting on the onus. Like, let’s say, you’re driving on a patch of ice, it will turn traction off, and then turn it on a couple inches right after the ice, like a little patch of ice because in the frame of the electric motor, you’re moving incredibly slowly. You’re like a — You’re a snail. You’re just moving so slowly because it can see at a thousand frames a second. And so, it’s like, say, one Mississippi. It just thought about it things a thousand times.

: So, it’s to realize that your wheels are not getting traction. It understands there’s some slippery surface that you’re driving on.

: 是的。

: 而且它能实时进行调整。

: 是的，以毫秒计。

: 这将比普通汽车安全得多。

: 是的，它是。

: Just that alone, for loved ones, you’d want them to be driving your car.

: 是的。

: 或在船上。去他妈的马达。老兄，去他妈的普通马达。

: 在美国政府测试的所有汽车中，S、X和3的受伤概率最低。

: 哇哦。

: So, this — Yeah, but it’s pretty fun. It’s pretty crazy. Like we — You know, people still sue us like they’ll have like some accident at 60 miles an hour where they’d like twisted an ankle, and they slipped. Like they will be dead in another car, they still sue us.

: But that’s to be expected, isn’t it?

: 这也是意料之中的事。

: Do you take that into account with like the same sort of fatalistic, you know, undertones to sort of just go, “You’ve got to just let it go. This is what people do.”

: I tell you I’ve got-

: 这就是它的本质。

: … Quite a lot of respect for the justice system. Judges are very smart. And they see — they’ve — as like I haven’t. So far, I’ve found judges to be very good at justice because like what — and juries are good too. Like, they’re actually quite good. You know, people — You know, you read about like occasional errors in the justice system. Let me tell you, most the time, they’re very good.

: 就像另一个人提到的，他在车里睡着了，他骑车撞倒了一个骑自行车的人。而这也是鼓励我尽快把自动驾驶系统弄出来的原因。那个人起诉了我们。

: 他因为你睡着了而起诉你？

: Yes. I’m not kidding. He blamed it on the new car smell.

: 什么？

: 是的。

: He blamed him falling asleep on your new car smell. Does someone that’s a lawyer-

: 这是一件真实发生的事情。

: Someone that’s a lawyer that thought that through in front of his laptop before he wrote that up.

: Yes, he got a lawyer, and he sued us, and the judge was like, “This is crazy. Stop bothering me. No.”

: 感谢上帝。

: 是的。

: Thank God. Thank God there’s a judge out there with a brain.

: 我告诉你，法官是非常好的。

: 其中一些。

: 我有很多...

: 那个在宾夕法尼亚州把所有这些男孩送上河的法官怎么样了，他把这些孩子卖了？你知道那个故事吗？

: 不对。

: 法官将年轻男孩卖给监狱。他就像字面上的---

: 什么？

: 是的，从字面上看，在贿赂下，他是...

: 这是一位当选的法官还是--

: 他是--

: Because sometimes you have a judge that’s like actually a politician.

: 不，他是一个当选的法官。这是一个非常著名的故事。

: 好的。

: He’s in jail right now, I think, for the rest of his life. And he put away — He would take like a young boy who would do something like steal something from a store, and he would put them in detention for, you know, five years. Something ridiculous egregious. And they investigated his history. And they found out that he was literally being paid off. Was it by private prisons? Is that what the the deal was? There was some sort of — But, anyway, this judge is-

: 实际上，是两位法官。

: 两个法官？

: Two judges. Kids for cash scandals, let’s call them.

: 是的。

: 2008年，是的。普通法院的法官。所以，我认为他们是选举出来的。

: And who was paying them? Someone — It proven to the point where they’re in jail now that someone was paying them to put more asses in the seats in these private prisons.

: It’s like a million-dollar payment to put them in a youth center builder.

: 一百万美元的付款？

: 是的。

: 我确实认为这些私人监狱的事情是...

: 有人做生意。

: ......造成不良的激励。

: It’s dark.

: 对，是的。但是，我的意思是，那个法官在监狱里。

: 感谢上帝。

: 是的，但对于那些认为也许司法系统完全由这样的法官组成的人，我想向你保证--

: 没有。

: ...情况并非如此。绝大多数法官都非常优秀。

: 我同意。

: And they care about justice, and they could have made a lot more money if they wanted to be a trial lawyer. And instead, they cared about justice, and they made less money because they care about justice. And that’s why they’re judges.

: 我对警察也有这种感觉。

: 是的。

: I feel like there’s so many interactions with so many different people with police officers that the very few that stand out that are horrific, we tend to look at that like, “This is evidence that police are all corrupt.” And I think that’s crazy.

: 不，大多数警察都非常诚实。

: 是的。

: 而像军事-

: 就像他们有一个疯狂的...

: ...我所知道的人员-

: 是的。

: ...是非常可敬的、有道德的人。

: 是的。

: And much more honorable and ethical than the average person. That’s my impression.

: I agree. That’s my impression as well.

: And that’s not to suggest that we be complacent and assume everyone is honest and ethical. And, obviously, if somebody is given a trusted place in society, such as being a police officer or a judge, and they are corrupt, then we must be extra vigilant against such situations-

: 是的。

: ...并采取行动。但我们不应该认为这在某种程度上是对该行业的人的广泛描述。

: I couldn’t agree more. I think there’s also an issue with one of the things that happens with police officers, prosecutors, and anyone that’s trying to convict someone or arrest someone is that it becomes a game. And in games, people want to win.

: 是的。

: 而有时，人们会作弊。

: Yes, yes. I mean, you know, if you’re a prosecutor, you should not always want to win. There are times when you should like, “Okay. I just should not want to win this case.” And then, you know, like just pass on that case. Sometimes, people want to win too much. That is true.

: I think, also, it becomes tough. If you’re like a district attorney, you know, you tend to sort of see a lot of criminals. And then, your view of the world can get negatively.

: 是的。

: You know, have a negative — You know, you can have a negative view of the world because, you know, you’re just interacting with a lot of criminals. But, actually, most of society is not to consist of criminals.

: 对。

: And I, actually, had this conversation at dinner several years ago with, I guess, it’s Tony. I was like, “Man, it must, sometimes, seem pretty, pretty dark because, you know, man, there’s some terrible human beings out there. And he was like, “Yup.” And he was like dealing with some case, which consisted of a couple of old ladies that would run people over somehow for insurance money. It was rough. Like, “Wow, that’s pretty rough.” It’s like hard to maintain faith in humanity if you’re a district attorney, but, you know, it’s only a few percent of society that are actually bad.

: 然后如果你去找最差的，比如说社会上有0.1%的人是最差的，千分之一，百万分之一，你知道。就像美国最差的一百万人有多坏？相当该死的坏。就像该死的邪恶。

: 是的。

: Like the millionth, well, one in a million of evil is so evil, people cannot even conceive of it. But there’s 330 million people in the United States. So, that’s 330 people out there somewhere. But by the same token, there’s also 330 people who are incredible angels and unbelievably good human beings.

: 是的。

: 在另一边。

: 但是由于我们对危险的恐惧，我们倾向于--我们的想法倾向于向最坏的情况倾斜。

: 是的。

: And we want to frame that. And that’s one of the real problems with prejudice, whether it’s prejudice towards different minorities, or prejudice towards police officers, or anything, it’s like we want to look at the worst-case scenario and say, “This is an example of what this is all about.”.

: And you see that even with people, how they frame genders. Some men frame women like that. They get ripped off by a few women, and they said, “All women are evil.” Some women get fucked over by a few men, “All men are shit.” And this is very toxic.

: 它是。

: And it’s also — It’s a very unbalanced way of viewing the world, and it’s very emotionally-based, and it’s based on your own experience, your own anecdotal experience. And it can be very influential to the people around you, and it’s just it’s a dangerous way. It’s a dangerous thought process and pattern to promote.

: It is. It is a very dangerous, but I really think, you know, people should give other people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are good until proven otherwise. And, I think, really, most people are actually pretty good people. Nobody’s perfect.

: 他们必须是。

: 是的。

: 如果你想一想，我们当中有大量的人在不断地相互交流

: 是的。

: ......我们必须比我们认为的更好。

: 是的，我的意思是，像...

: There’s no other way.

: I mean, here are these weapons but how many times, like, nobody’s presumably try to murder you and you’re-

: 还没有人。

: Yes, nobody. It’s like the sword right there.

: 不是喷火器，是这里的假喷火器--。

: 正是如此。

: It’s not a flamethrower. Now, we’ve got a real problem, I’m going to put it on that side to him and leave it for the guests.

: 是的。

: I’m like, “Look, man, if I say something that fucked up, it’s right there.”

: It will liven things up for sure. It’s guaranteed to make any party better.

: Yeah. Well, that’s — I mean, that’s the armed civilization theory, right. An armed community is safe and polite community.

: You know, in Texas, it’s kind of true. Yeah. I mean-

: People in Texas are super polite. Therefore, they’ve got a gun.

: Yes. Don’t make somebody angry.

: 是的。

: We don’t know what’s going to happen.

: Yeah, it’s a good move.

: 是的。

: 把人惹急了，每个人都会有一把枪。

: 是的。

: You’re off to just let that guy get in your lane.

: 是的，是的。你知道，我们在德克萨斯州中部的韦科附近有一个大的试验场。

: 哦，是吗？很漂亮。

: Yes, Space X in McGregor. It’s about 15 minutes away from Waco.

: That’s close to where Ted Nugent lives.

: 它是什么？

: 向泰德-纽吉特喊话。

: 好的，很好。

: 是的。

: Yeah, there’s — You know, we have lots of fire, and loud explosions, and things, and people-

: 我打赌。

: ......他们对这个问题很感冒。

: They don’t give a fuck out there.

: They’re very supportive.

: 是的。你可以在你的孩子上学的地方买烟花，你知道，你的孩子上学的地方。

: Yeah. You know, it’s dangerous.

: Yeah, but it’s free.

: It’s free.

: There’s something about Texas-

: 正是如此。

: … that’s very enticing because of that. It is dangerous, but it’s also free.

: 对。

: 是的。

: 是的，实际上我有点喜欢德克萨斯。

: I prefer it over places that are more restrictive but more liberal because you could always be liberal. Like just because things are free and just because you have a certain amount of, you know, right wing type characters, it doesn’t mean you have to be that way, you know.

: 没有。

: And, honestly, there’s a lot of those people that are pretty fucking open minded and let you do whatever you want to do.

: 对。

: As long as you don’t bother them.

: 是的，没错。

: That’s my hope right now with the way we’re able to communicate with each other today and how radically different it is than generations past because we all — Just, the dust settles. We all realize, like what you’re saying that most people are good.

: 大多数人是好的。

: 绝大多数？

: 是的，我认为如果你给人们以怀疑的好处，肯定是这样。

: I think you’re right. You know who could help with that? Mushrooms.

: 蘑菇。

: Don’t you think?

: They’re delicious.

: 是的，没错。

: 是的。

: They’re good for you too.

: 是的。

: 所有的人。所有种类的都有。你看到的是什么，比如，当你思考你们公司的未来时，你看到的是什么，比如瓶颈？想再来点这个吗？

: 当然，谢谢你。

: What do you see in terms of like bottlenecks of things that are holding back innovation? Is it regulatory commissions and people that don’t understand the technology that are influencing policy? Like what could potentially be holding you guys back right now? Is there anything that you would change?

: Yeah, that’s a good question. You know, I wish politicians were better at science. That would help a lot.

: That’s a problem.

: 是的。

: There’s no incentive for them to be good at science.

: There isn’t. Actually, you know, they’re pretty good at science in China, I have to say.

: 是吗？

: Yeah. The mayor of Beijing has, I believe, an environmental engineering degree, and the deputy mayor has a physics degree. I met them, And Mayor says, “Shanghai is really smart and-“.

: You’re up on technology. What do you think about this government policy of stopping use of Huawei phones? And there’s something about the the worry about spying. I mean, from what I understand from real tech people, they think it’s horseshit.

: 哦，我--。

: 比如电话。

: I don’t know. I don’t know.

: Like the government say, “Don’t you buy Huawei phones.” Are you up on that at all? No? Should we just abandon this idea?

: 好吧，我想，就像，我猜，如果你有像最高机密的东西，那么你要相当小心地对待你使用的硬件。但是，你知道，像大多数人没有最高机密的东西。

: 对。

: 而且，没有人真正关心你看什么色情片，你知道。

: 对，是的。

: It’s like nobody actually cares, you know. So-.

: If they do, that’s kind of them.

: 是的。

: It’s just like-

: National spy agencies do not give a rat’s ass which porn you watch. They do not care. So, like, what secrets does a national spy agency have to learn from the average citizen? Nothing.

: Well, that’s the argument against the narrative. And the argument by a lot of these tech people is that the real concern is that these companies, like Huawei, are innovating at a radical pace, and they’re trying to stop them from integrating into our culture and letting this. Like right now, they’re the number two cell phone manufacturer in the world.

: 好的。

: Samsung is number one. Huawei is number two. Apple is now number three. They surpassed Apple as number two. And the idea is that this is all taking place without them having any foothold whatsoever in America. There’s no carriers that have their phones. You have to buy their phones unlocked through some sort of a third party, and then put-

: 好的。

: And the worry is, you know, that these are somehow another controlled by the Chinese government. The Communist Chinese government is going to distribute these phones. And I don’t know if the worry’s economic influence or they’ll have too much power. I don’t know what it is. Are you paying attention on any of this?

: 并非如此。

: 不是吗？

: I don’t think we should worry too much about Huawei phones, you know. Maybe, you know, a national security agency shouldn’t have Huawei phones. Maybe that’s a question mark. But I think for the average citizen, this doesn’t matter. Just like no, they’re not. I’m pretty sure the Chinese government does not care about the goings of the average American citizen.

: Is there a time where you think that there will be no security, it will be impossible to hold back information that whatever bottleneck we’ll let go, we’re going to give in? That whatever bottleneck between privacy and ultimate innovation will have to be bridged in order for us to achieve the next level of technological proficiency that we’re just going to abandon it, and there’ll be no security, no privacy?

: 人们想要隐私吗？因为他们似乎把一切都放在互联网上。实际上-。

: Well, right now, they are confused, but when you’re talking about your Neuralink, and this this idea that one day, we’re going to be able to share information, and we’re going to be some sort of a thing that’s symbiotically connected?

: 是的，我认为在这种情况下，我们真的担心安全问题

: 而当-

: For sure. That’s like security will be paramount.

: 当然。

: 是的。

: But, also, what we will be. This will be so much different. Our concerns about money, about status, about where all of these things will seemingly go by the wayside if we really become enlightened, if we really become artificially enlightened by some sort of an AI interface where we have this symbiotic relationship with some new internet type connection to information? But, you know, what happens then? What is important? What is not important? Is privacy important when we’re all gods?

: 我的意思是，我认为现在我们认为重要的事情是要保密的----。

: 对。

: ......我们可能不会再想下去了。

: 耻辱，对吗？信息，对吗？隐藏的是什么？情感？我们在隐藏什么？

: I mean, I think, like, I don’t know. Maybe it’s like embarrassing stuff.

: 对，尴尬的东西。

: But there’s actually — Like, I think, people, there’s like not that much that’s kept private that people — that is actually relevant.

: 对。

: That other people would actually care about. When you think other people care about it, but they don’t really care about it. And, certainly, governments don’t.

: 嗯，有些人关心它。但是，当它被曝光时，就会变得很奇怪。就像詹妮弗-劳伦斯，当那些裸体照片被曝光时，就像，我认为，在某些方面，人们更喜欢她。

: 是的。

: They realized like she’s just a person. It’s just a girl who likes sex, and is just alive, and has a boyfriend, and sends him messages. And, now, you get to look into it, and you probably shouldn’t have, but somebody let it go, and they put it online, and all right.

: 她似乎做得很好。

: She’s a person. She’s just you, and me, and it’s the same thing. She’s just in some weird place where she’s on a 35-foot tall screen with music playing every time she talks.

: Yeah. I mean, I’m sure like not-

: No, but she’s fine.

: She’s not happy about it, but she’s-

: 没有。

: But she’s clearly doing fine.

: But once this interface is fully realized where we really do become something far more powerful in terms of our cognitive ability, our ability to understand irrational thoughts, and mitigate them, and that we’re all connected in some sort of an insane way. I mean, what are our thoughts on wealth, our thoughts on social status? Like how many of those just evaporate? And our need for privacy, maybe our need for privacy will be the ultimate bottleneck that we’ll have to surpass.

: I think, the things that we think are important now will probably not be important in the future, but there will be things that are important. It’s just, like, different things.

: 什么会更重要？

: I don’t know. There might be some more of ideas potentially. I don’t think Darwin’s going away.

: 对。

: Darwin’s going to be there.

: 就是这样，是的。

: 达尔文将永远存在于那里。

: 永远，是的。

: 这将只是一个不同的竞技场。不同的竞技场。

: 一个数字竞技场。

: 不同的竞技场。达尔文是不会消失的。

: 是什么让你夜不能寐？

: Well, it’s quite hard to run companies.

: 是的。

: Especially car companies, I would say. It’s quite challenging.

: 汽车业务是你所做的所有事情中最难的一个？

: Yes, because it’s a consumer-oriented business as opposed to like SpaceX and-

: Not that SpaceX because SpaceX is no walk in the park, but a car company, it’s very difficult to keep a car company alive. It’s very difficult. You know, there’s only two companies in the history of American car companies that haven’t gone bankrupt, and that’s Ford and Tesla. That’s it.

: Yeah, Ford rode out that crazy storm, huh? They’re the only one.

: 靠的是他们的皮毛。

: 射出到野马号。

: 是的。

: 是的，靠的是他们的皮毛。这很有趣，对吗？

: 特斯拉也一样，我们勉强活了下来。

: 你离折叠有多远？

: 非常接近。我的意思是，2008年不是一个做汽车公司的好时机，特别是一个初创的汽车公司，尤其是一个电动汽车公司。这就像愚蠢的平方。

: 这就是你有那些带T型车顶的酷炫跑车的时候？

: 是的。

: 有了目标顶？

: 是的。我们有一个--那是高度改装的Elise底盘。车身是完全不同的。

: What’s dumb?

: It was based on two false premises. One false premise was that we would be able to cheaply convert the Lotus Elise, and use that as a car platform, and that we’ll be able to use technology from this little company called AC Propulsion for the electric drive train on the battery. Premise, the AC propulsion technology did not work in production, and we ended up using none of it in long-term. None of it. We had to resign everything.

: 然后一旦你在车上添加电池组和电动马达，它就变得更重了。它得到了30%的重量。它使整个结构失效了，所有的碰撞结构。一切都必须重新做。什么都没有。就像，我想，它有不到7%的零件是与任何其他设备包括汽车或任何东西共同的。

: 7%?

: 是的。

: 所有的东西？包括轮胎，和车轮，螺栓，刹车？

: 是的，即使是每...

: 方向盘？座椅？

: 方向盘是--我想，方向盘几乎是一样的。是的，挡风玻璃。挡风玻璃。

: 不同？

: 不，我认为，挡风玻璃是一样的。

: 一样吗？

: 是的，我想，我们能够保留挡风玻璃。

: But the last was 7%. So, that’s basically-

: Every body panel is different. The entire structure was different. We couldn’t use the, like, the HVAC system, the air conditioner. It was belt-driven air conditioner. So, now, we needed something that was electrically driven. We need a new AC compressor.

: 而这一切也会影响到电池寿命，对吗？

: 是的。我们需要一个小型的、高效的空调系统，能装在一辆小汽车里，而且是电动的，不是皮带驱动的。这是很困难的。

: 那些重量，那些车，Roadster的重量是多少？

: 我想它是2700磅。

: That’s still very light.

: 27.取决于哪个版本，2650到2750磅，类似这样的东西。

: 那么重量分布是怎样的呢？

: It was about 50 — Well, there were different versions of the car. So, it’s about 55 on the rear.

: That’s not bad.

: 这是后方的偏向。

: 对，但不坏。考虑到像911，这就像有史以来最受欢迎的跑车之一。严重的后端偏向。

: Well, I mean, yeah. The 911, I’m not going to joke, is like the master despite Newton not being on their side.

: 是的。

: I guess, fighting Newton, it’s very difficult.

: 好吧-

: It’s like you’ve got those — The moments of inertia on a 911 don’t make any sense.

: 一旦你理解他们，他们就会这样做。一旦你理解-

: You don’t want to hang the engine off the ass. This is not a wise move.

: You don’t want to let up on the gas when you’re in a corner.

: The problem with something where the engine is mounted over the rear axle or off the rear axle towards the rear is that your polar moment of inertia is fundamentally screwed. You cannot solve this. It’s unsolvable. You’re screwed. Polar moment of inertia, you’re screwed.

: 对。

: Like, essentially, if you spawn the car like a top, that’s your polar moment of inertia. You’re just — I promise I wouldn’t swear on this show, by the way.

: 真的吗？

: 是的。

: 谁说的？

: 这是给一个朋友的。

: 告诉那个朋友，让他自己去吧。谁告诉你不要说脏话？

: 一个朋友。

: He’s not a good friend.

: 是的。

: 那个朋友需要...

: I said I wouldn’t swear.

: … realize you’re fucking Elon Musk. You can do whatever you want, man. If you ever get confused, call me.

: I’ll swear in private. Swear up a storm.

: Okay, just say freaking. It’s a fun way. It’s like old house moms. Wives and shit that have children, “Oh, this freaking thing.”

: Yeah. But, anyway, like the Portia, it’s kind of incredible how well Porsche handles given that it’s the physics-.

: 是的。

: 惯性矩是如此的混乱。居然还能让它运转良好，真是不可思议。

: Well, if you know how to turn into the corner once you get used to the feeling of it, there’s actual benefits to it. You know, there are some benefits.

: 我很喜欢。我之前的车，特斯拉是一辆911。

: 好的。

: 那是--

: 997还是6？

: 是的。

: 997?

: 是的。

: 是的。伟大的汽车，伙计。

: Yeah. I mean, particularly, the Porsche wouldn’t have the variable veins on the turbo, and it didn’t have the turbo lag. That was great.

: 是的。

: 那真的很好。涡轮滞后是，比如，你知道，如果你调情，比如打电话回家，给你妈妈打电话。

: 老一点的那个，对吗？

: It’s like about an hour later-

: 是的。

: ...汽车加速。

: 也是超级危险的，因为它将开始旋转和...

: 是的。

: Yeah. There’s something fun about it though like feeling that rear weight kicking around, you know. And again-

: No, it’s great.

: … it’s not efficient.

: 它有一种良好的感觉。

: 是的。

: 是的，我同意。

: But that’s what I was talking about earlier about that little car that I have, the ’93 911. It’s not fast. It’s not the best handling car, but it’s more satisfying than any other car I have because it’s so mechanical. It’s like everything about it, like crack holes, and bumps, and it gives you all this feedback. And I take it to the comic store because when I get there, I feel like my brain is just popping, and it’s on fire. It’s like a strategy for me now that I really stop driving other cars there. I drive that car there just for the brain juice, just for the-

: 是的。

: 的互动。

: 我的意思是，你应该试试Model S P100D。

: I’ll try it.

: It will blow your mind-

: 好的。

: ...和你的头骨。

: 好的。

: 是的。

: Tell me what to order, I’ll order it.

: Model S P100D。

: 好的。杰米，把它写下来。

: That’s the car that I drive.

: Okay. Okay, I’ll get the car you drive. Okay.

: It will blow your mind-

: 我可以开多远？

: ...从你的头骨里出来。

: 我相信你。

: 是的。

: 我可以开多远？我可以开多远？

: 大约300英里。

: That’s good. For LA regular days, that’s good.

: 你永远不会注意到电池的存在。

: 从来没有？

: 从来没有。

: 在你的房子里安装一个这样的疯狂插头有多难？有那么难吗？

: No, it’s super easy. It’s like, yeah.

: 你是否...

: It’s like a dryer plug. It’s like a dryer outlet.

: Didn’t you come up with some crazy tiles for your roof that are solar paneled?

: Yeah, yeah. I have it on my roof right now actually. I’m just trying it out. The thing is it takes a while to test roof stuff because roofs have to last a long time.

: 对。

: 所以，你希望你的屋顶能持续30年左右。

: 你能把它放在一个普通的屋顶上吗？

: No. So, there’s two versions. It’s like the solar panels you put on a roof. So, like, it depends on whether your roofs new or old. So, if your roofs new, you don’t want to replace the roof. You want to put like solar panels on the roof.

: 对。

: So, that’s like retrofit, you know. And they were trying to make the retrofit panels look real nice. But then, the new product were coming out with it is if you have a roof that’s either you’re building a house or you’re going to replace your roof anyway, then you make the tiles have solar cells embedded in the tiles.

: And then, it’s quite a tricky thing because you want to not see the solar cell behind the glass tile. So, you have to really work with the glass, and the various coatings, and the layers, so that you don’t see the solar cells behind the glass. Otherwise, it doesn’t look right.

: 对。

: So, it’s really tricky.

: 就在那里。詹姆，把它放在上面。

: 是的。

: 伙计，这看起来不错。是否有一个...

: See, like, if you look closely, you can see. If you zoom in, like, you can see the cell. But if you zoom out, you don’t see the cell.

: 对，但它看起来虽然。

: 看到了吗？

: 是的。

: Like that’s hard.

: That’s invisible solar cells.

: It’s really hard because you have to get the sunlight go through.

: 对。

: But when it gets reflected back out, it doesn’t — it hides the fact that there’s a cell there.

: 现在，这些东西现在可以提供给消费者吗？

: Well, we have — I think, that’s-

: 屋顶上的那些人就在那里？

: 是的。

: That’s amazing. Oh, that looks good.

: 是的。

: 哦，我喜欢这样。

: 这个是很难的。

: 哦。所以，你得到了那种看起来像西班牙人的假东西。我喜欢这样。

: That’s French slate.

: That’s why people in Connecticut are smoking pipes. Look at that one.

: 是的。

: That’s badass, dude. So, now-

: 这实际上会起作用。

: 我相信你。那么，我们刚才看的那所房子上的太阳能电池板，是否足以为整个家庭供电？

: 这取决于你的能量有多大的效率-

: 支出？

: 是的，是的。

: 对。

: So, generally, yes. I would say it’s probably for most. It’s going to vary, but anywhere from more than you need to maybe half. Like call it half to 1.5 of the energy that you need, depending on how much roof you have relative to living space.

: 还有，你的电视是多么的可笑。

: 电视机没问题。空调。

: 空调。

: Air conditioning is the problem. If you have an efficient air conditioner, and you don’t — and depending on how — like, are you air conditioning rooms when they don’t need to be air conditioned, which is very common-

: 对。

: … because it’s a pain in the neck, you know. It’s like programming a VCR. It’s like-

: 对。

: Now, it’s just blinking 12:00. So, people are just like, “The hell with that. I’m just going to make it this temperature all day long.”.

: Right. You know how a smart home where if you’re in the room, then it stays cool, right?

: Yeah, it should predict when you’re going to be home, and then cool the rooms that you’re likely to use with a little bit of intelligence. We’re not talking about like genius home here. We’re talking like elementary basic stuff.

: 对。

: You know, like if you could hook that into the car, like manage you coming home. Like there’s no point cooling the home-

: 对。

: … keeping the home really cool when you’re not there.

: 对。

: But it can tell that you’re coming home, it’s just going to cool it to the right temperature right when you get there.

: 你有一个与你的太阳能电池板或类似的应用程序吗？

: 是的。是的，我们这样做。

: 而且--。

: 但我们需要把它与空调连接起来，使空调真正发挥作用。

: 你想过创建一个空调系统吗？我知道你有。骗人的问题。

: 不能回答有关潜在产品的未来问题。

: Okay. Let’s just let it go. We’ll move on to the next thing.

: 这将是一个有趣的想法。

: 是的，我会说辐射加热和所有这些，好主意。现在，当你考虑到这些房屋的效率，并考虑到实施太阳能和电池供电时，还有什么是人们所忽略的吗？有没有其他的--比如，我刚刚看到一个智能手表，它是由人体的热量提供动力的，还有一些新技术。

: It’s able to fully power that way?

: I don’t know-

: 好的。

: … if it’s fully or if it’s — Like this watch right here, this is a Casio.

: 好的。

: It’s called a Pro Trek. And it’s like an outdoors watch, and it’s solar-powered.

: 好的。

: 因此，它有能力依靠太阳能运行一定的时间。

: 是的。

: 因此，如果你让它暴露在外面，它可以在太阳能上运行一定的时间。

: Yeah. Well, you know, like there’s self-weighting watches where-

: 是的。

: … you know, it’s just got a weight in the watch. And as you move your wrist, the way it moves from one side to the other, and it winds the watch up. That’s a pretty cool thing.

: 是的，是的。

: 是的。

: Well, it’s amazing that like Rolexes that it’s all done mechanically.

: 是的。

: There’s no batteries in there. There is no nothing.

: Yeah. You could do the same thing. You create a little charger that’s based on wrist movement. It really depends on how much energy your watch uses.

: You know what’s fucked up about that though? We accept a certain amount of like fuckery with those watches. Like I brought my watch. I have a Rolex that my friend, Lorenzo, gave me, and I brought it to the watch store, and I said, “This thing’s always fast.” I said, “It’s always like after a couple of months, it’s like five minutes fast.” And they go, “Yup.” They go, “Yeah.”

: 真的吗？

: “It’s just what it does.”

: 好的。

: I go, “Hold on.” I go, “So, you’re telling me that it just is always going to be fast?” They’re like, “Yeah. It’s just like every few months, you get like reset it.”

: 看起来他们应该重新校准那个东西。

: They can’t. They tried. They say, every few months, whether it’s four months, or five months, or six months, it’s going to be a couple of minutes fast.

: 好吧，看来他们真的应该重新校准，因为......。

: 你应该搞清楚那件事。

: … if it’s always fast, you can just-

: 对。

: ......你知道的，删除这些记录。

: You need to fucking kick down the door at Rolex and go, “You bitches are lazy.”

: It’s kind of amazing that you can keep time mechanically on a wristwatch with these tiny little gears.

: 这很惊人。

: 是的。

: I mean, the whole luxury watch market is fascinating. I’m not that involved in terms — Like I don’t buy them. I’ve bought them as gifts. I don’t buy them for myself. But when I look at them online, there’s a million dollar watches out there now that are like they have like a little rotating moons and stars.

: 是的。

: 而他们的生活--比如说看看这个东西，詹姆时多少钱？

: I don’t know. I just picked one.

: 这些都是他妈的荒唐的猜测。我喜欢齿轮。我爱它们。我爱他们。

: 是的，我认为这很美。

: But there’s some of these people that are just taking it right in the ass. They’re buying these watches for like $750,000 . Like, “Yeah, that’s a Timex, son.” Nobody knows. It’s not any better than some Casio that you could just buy on — Like, look at that though.

: Well, here’s the thing. If you’re a person that doesn’t just want to know the time, you want craftsmanship, you want some artisan’s touch, you want innovation in terms of like a person figuring out how gears and cogs all line up perfectly, to every time it turns over, it’s basically a second. I mean, that’s just — There’s this art to that.

: 是的，我同意。

: Yeah, it’s not just telling time. Yeah, I like this watch a lot, but if it got hit by a rock, I wouldn’t be sad.

: 是的。

: It’s just to watch. It’s a mass-produced thing that runs on some quartz battery. But those things, there’s art to that.

: Yeah. No, I agree. It’s beautiful.

: 是的。

: 是的。喜爱它。

: Yeah. There’s something amazing about it. It’s-

: 对。

: Because it represents the human creativity. It’s not just electronic innovation. There’s something. It’s a person’s work in that.

: 是的。

: You don’t have a watch on.

: 没有。

: 曾经？

: 我以前有一块手表。

: 发生了什么事？

: 我的手机会显示时间。所以...

: That’s a good point. Well, if you lose your phone? Do you — Wait, hold on.

: It’s true.

: 让我猜猜看，你是一个没有案子的人。

: That’s correct. Living on the edge. Living on the edge without a case.

: Neil deGrasse Tyson. Neil deGrasse Tyson was in here last week. I’m marveled at his ability to get through life without a case.

: 这就对了。

: 你知道，他拿着他的手机，在他的手指间翻转，就像一个士兵拿着他的步枪一样。

: 对。

: 他只是在他的手指间卷起了那些狗屎。

: 好的。

: It’s marvelous.

: 哇。

: He says that’s the reason why they do it. He said, “Would you look at someone who has a rifle, why would they do that? Why would they flip it around like that?”

: 对。

: It’s like, it goes to drop, they have it in their hand. They catch it quickly.

: 是的。

: So, that’s what he does with his phone. He’s just flipping his phone around all the time. I got that in Mexico. I was hoping it holds joint.

: 它有什么作用吗？它提示可以打开。

: 没有。

: 只是一个洞？

: It’s just a hole.

: 你可以在里面储存东西。

: Yeah. But like try it. Put a joint in there. Close it. You put like one blunt. One, that seems pretentious. You know, that’s the idea behind it. I bought it when I was in Mexico because I figured it would be a good size to hold joints, or it’s not.

: 那么，那是大麻还是雪茄？

: 没有。

: 好的。

: It’s marijuana inside of a tobacco.

: Okay. So, it’s like posh, part tobacco a pot.

: 是的。你从来没有过这种情况？

: 是的，我想我试过一次。

: Come on, man. You probably can’t because of stockholders, right?

: I mean, it’s legal, right?

: 完全合法。

: 好的。

: How does that work? Do people get upset at you if you do certain things? It’s just tobacco and marijuana in there. That’s all it is. The combination of tobacco and marijuana is wonderful. First turned on to it by Charlie Murphy, and then reignited by Dave Chappelle. There you go.

: 加上威士忌。

: 正是如此。

: 完美。它平衡了。

: Alcohol is a drug that’s been grandfathered in.

: Well, it’s not just a drug. It’s a drug that gets a bad rep because you just have a little, it’s great.

: 很好。

: Yeah, little sip here and there, and your inhibitions are relaxed, and it shows your true self. And, hopefully, you’re more joyous, and friendly, and happy, and everything. The real worry is the people that can’t handle it. Like the real worry about people who can’t handle cars and go 016 in 1.9 seconds or anything.

: Have you ever considered something that — Like, imagine if one day, everyone has a car that’s on the same, at least, technological standard as one of your cars, and everyone agrees that the smart thing to do is not just to have bumpers but to perhaps have some sort of a magnetic repellent device, something, some electromagnetic field around the cars that as cars come close to each other, they automatically radically decelerate because of magnets or something.

: 嗯，我是说，我们的汽车会自动刹车。

: 刹车？

: 是的。

: 是的。当他们看到东西时？

: 是的。

: 但就像一个物理屏障，就像--

: 嗯，轮子的工作很好。

: 轮子是这样的。

: 是的，是的。他们工作得很好。减速，你知道，1.1到1.2 Gs，诸如此类的事情。

: Is your concern that one day all your cars will be on the road, and then, there’ll still be regular people with regular cars 20-30 years from now that will get in the mix and be the main problem?

: Yeah. I think, it’d be sort of like, you know, there was a time of transition where there were horses and gasoline cars on the road at the same time. It’s been pretty weird.

: 这将是最奇怪的。

: Yeah. I mean, horses were tricky. You know, back when Manhattan had like 300.000 horses, then figure out like if a horse lives 15 years, you got 20,000 horses dropping dead every day or every year, I should say. Every year, it’s 20,000 horses. If there’s 300,000 horses in a 15-year lifespan.

: 早在《纽约黑帮》时代，那部电影。

: 是的。

: 是的。

: It’s a lot of dead horses. You needed a horse to move the horse.

: 对。

: They’ll probably get pretty freaked out if they have to move our dead horse.

: Do you think they know what’s going on?

: 是的。

: Do you think it’s as hard?

: I mean, it’s got to be like pretty weird.

: 不，我可以想象。

: Like, in my mind, dragging this dead, you know, horse around, and I’m a horse.

: 你是否...

: 他们可能不喜欢这样。

: Do you ever stop and think about your role in civilization? Do you ever stop and think about your role in the culture? Because me, as a person, who never met you until today, when I think of you, you know, I’ve always thought of you as being this weirdo super inventor dude who just somehow or another keeps coming up with new shit, but there’s not a lot of you out there. Like everybody else seems to be — I mean, obviously, you make a lot of money, and there’s a lot of people that make a lot of money. You like that clock?

: 是的。

: 很棒，对吗？

: 这是一个伟大的时钟。

: You want one? I’ll get you one.

: 当然。

: 好的，完成了。

: 我喜欢这样的怪事。

: Oh, this is the coolest. It’s TGT Promotion. What is this? TGT Studios? TGT Studios.

: 是的。

: Yeah. So, a gentleman who makes all this by hand. Yeah, it’s really cool.

: 我的书房里到处都是奇怪的装置。

: 好吧，准备好迎接另一个人吧。

: 好的。

: I’m sending it your way.

: 酷。

: You want a werewolf too? I’ll hook you up.

: All right. I’ll take one.

: Okay. You want a werewolf and one clock coming up. Do you think about your role in the culture? Because me, as a person, who never met you until today, I’ve always looked at you and like, “Wow.” Like, “How does this guy just keep inventing shit?” Like, how do you how do you keep coming up with all these new devices? And do you ever consider how unusual — Like I had a dream once that there was a million Teslas. Instead of like one Tesla, there was a million Teslas.

: 好的。

: 不仅仅是汽车，还有尼古拉。

: 哦，是的，当然。

: 而在他的时代，有一百万个像他一样的人在进行彻底的创新。

: 哇。

: It was a weird dream, man. It was so strange. And I’ve had it more than once.

: That would result in a very rapid technology innovation. That’s for sure.

: It’s one of the only dreams of my life I’ve had more than one time.

: 好吧，哇。

: Like where I’ve woken up, and it’s in the same dream. I’m in the same dream. And in this dream, it’s 1940s, 1950s, but everyone is severely advanced. There’s flying blimps with like LCD screens in the side of them. And everything is bizarre and strange. And it stuck with me for whatever — Obviously, this is just a stupid dream. But for whatever reason, all these years, that stuck with being. Like it takes one man, like Nikola Tesla, to have more than a hundred inventions that were patents, right. I mean, he had some-

: He’s pretty great.

: ...相当他妈的惊人的想法。

: 是的。

: 但有...

: 绝对的。

: 在他的时代，像他这样的人非常少。

: 是的，那是真的。

: 如果有一百万呢？像什么在经历-

: 事情会进展得非常快。

: Right, but there’s not a million Elon Musks. There’s one motherfucker. Do you think about that or you just try to not?

: I don’t think. I don’t think you’d necessarily want to be me. That’d be good.

: Well, what’s the worst part about you?

: 我应该。我从未想过人们会那么喜欢它。

: Well, most people would, but they can’t be. So, that’s like some superhero type shit. You know, we wouldn’t want to be Spiderman. I’d rather just sleep tight in Gotham City and hope he’s out there doing his job.

: It’s very hard to turn it off.

: Yeah. What’s the hardest part?

: It might sound great if it’s turned on, but what if it doesn’t turn off?

: Now, I showed you the isolation tank, and you’ve never experienced that before.

: 没有。

: 我认为这可以帮助你把它关掉一点，只是为了晚上。

: 好的。

: Yeah. Just give you a little bit of sleep, a little bit of perspective. It’s magnesium that you get from the water as well that makes you sleep easier because the water has Epsom salts in it. But may be some sort of strategy for sacrificing your — or not sacrificing but enhancing your biological recovery time by figuring out a way whether it’s through meditation or some other ways to shut off that thing at night. Like you must have like a constant stream of ideas that’s running through your head all the time. You’re getting text messages from chicks.

: No. I’m getting text messages from a friend saying, “What the hell are you doing smoking weed?”.

: Is that bad for you? It’s legal.

: 是的。

: 我的意思是-

: It’s government approved.

: It’s not — You know, I’m not a regular smoker of weed.

: 你多长时间抽一次？

: Almost never. I mean, it’s-

: 感觉如何？

: I don’t actually notice any effect.

: 好吧，你去那里。有一段时间，我认为是斋月，因为有人给了一些佛教僧侣一束酸。

: 好的。

: 他吃了之后，对他没有任何影响。

: 我对此表示怀疑。

: I would say that too, but I’ve never meditated to the level that some of these people have where they’re constantly meditating all day. They don’t have any material possessions. And all of their energy is spent trying to achieve a certain mindset. I would like to cynically deny that. I’d like to cynically say, “Hey, just fuck and think the same way I do.” They’re just hanging out with flip flops on and make weird noises, but maybe no.

: You know, I know a lot of people like weed, and that’s fine, but I don’t find that it is very good for productivity.

: 给你的。

: 对我来说不是。

: Yeah. I mean, I would imagine that for someone like you, it’s not. For someone like you, it would be more like a cup of coffee, right. You want to have a latte.

: Yeah. It’s more like the opposite of a cup of coffee.

: 那是什么？

: It’s like a cup of coffee in reverse.

: 杂草是？

: 是的。

: No, I’m saying you would like more. More like will be beneficial to you. It would be like coffee.

: 我喜欢把事情做好。我喜欢成为有用的人。这是最难做到的事情之一，就是成为有用的人。

: 当你说你喜欢把事情做完---------。

: 是的。

: ...就像，就像什么 --

: 我应该把事情做好。

: ...让你感到满意？当你完成一个项目，当你发明的东西取得成果，你看到人们喜欢它，这种感觉。

: 是的，做一些我喜欢做的对别人有用的事情。

: That’s interesting for other people.

: 是的。

: 所以，你认为这也许是你认识到你在文化中拥有这种不寻常的地位的方式，你可以因为这个而独特地影响某些事情？我的意思是，你本质上有一种天赋，对吧。

: 当然。

: I mean, you would think it was a curse, but I’m sure it’s been fueled by many, many years of discipline and learning. But you, essentially, have a gift and that you have this radical sort of creativity engine when it comes to innovation and technology. It’s like you’re just you’re going at very high RPMs.

: All the time. That doesn’t stop.

: 那是什么样子的？

: I don’t know what would happen if I got into a sensory deprivation tank.

: Let’s try it.

: 这听起来有点令人担忧。

: 但为什么呢？

: It’s like running the engine with no resistance. That is-

: Is that what it is though? Maybe it’s not.

: Maybe it’s fine. I don’t know.

: 多少钱-

: I’ll try it. I’ll try it.

: 你是否曾经--

: It’s fine.

: ...试验过冥想或什么？

: 是的。

: 你是做什么的，或者你做过什么而？

: I mean, just sort of sit there, and be quiet, and then repeat some mantra, which acts as a focal point. It does still the mind. It does still the mind, but I don’t find myself drawn to it frequently.

: Do you think that perhaps productivity is maybe more attractive to you than enlightenment or even the concept of whatever enlightenment means. Like, what are you trying to achieve when you’re meditating all the time? With you, it seems like almost like there’s a franticness to your creativity that comes out of this burning furnace. And in order for you to like calm that thing down, you might have to throw too much water on it.

: It’s like a never-ending explosion.

: Like what is it like? Try to explain it to a dumb person like me. What’s going on?

: 永无止境的爆炸。

: It’s just constant ideas just bouncing around.

: 是的。

: 该死的。

: 是的。

: So, when everybody leaves, it’s just Elon sitting at home brushing his teeth, just bunch ideas bouncing around your head.

: 是的，所有的时间。

: When did you realize that that’s not the case with most people?

: I think, when I was, I don’t know, five or six or something. I thought I was insane.

: 为什么你认为自己是疯子？

: Because it is clear that other people do not. Their mind wasn’t exploding with ideas all the time.

: So, they weren’t expressing it. They weren’t talking about it all day. And you realized by the time you were five or six like, “Oh, they’re probably not even getting this thing that I’m getting.”

: No. It was just strange. It was like, “Hmm, kind of strange.” That was my conclusion, kind of strange.

: But did you feel diminished by it in any way? Like knowing that this is a weird thing that you really probably couldn’t commiserate with other people, they wouldn’t understand you.

: I hope they wouldn’t find out because they might like put me away or something.

: 你是这样想的？

: 有那么一瞬间，是的。

: 在你小的时候？

: 是的。他们把人关起来。如果他们把我关起来呢？

: 就像你小的时候，你是这样想的？

: 是的。

: Wow. Well, you thought, “This is so radically different than the people that are around me if they find out I got this stream coming in.”

: 是的。

: 哇哦。

: 但是，你知道，我当时大概只有五、六岁的样子。

: Do you think this is like — I mean, there’s outliers biologically. You mean, there’s people that are 7 foot 9, there’s people that have giant hands, there’s people that have eyes that are 20/15 vision. There’s always the outliers. Do you feel like you like caught this, like you have got some — you’re like on some weird innovation creativity sort of wave that’s very unusual? Like you tapped into — I mean, just think of the various things you may have accomplished in a very short amount of time, and you’re constantly doing this. That’s a weird — You’re a weird person, right.

: 对，我同意。

: Yeah. Like what if there’s a million Elon Musks?

: 那么，这将是非常、非常奇怪的。

: 哇哦。

: 是的，这将是相当奇怪的。我同意。

: 真的很奇怪。

: 绝对的。

: 是的。

: 如果有一百万个乔-罗根呢？

: There probably is. There’s probably two million. I mean, I think that’s the case with a lot of folks.

: Yeah. I mean, but, like, you know, my goal is like try to do useful things, try to maximize the probability for the future’s good, make the future exciting, something you look forward to, you know. You know, with Tesla, I want to try to make things that people love. Like, how do you think you could buy that you really love, that really give you joy? So rare, so rare. I wish there were more things. That’s what we try to do. Just make things that somebody loves.

: 当你-

: That’s so difficult.

: When you think about things that someone loves, like, do you specifically think about like what things would improve people’s experience, like what would change the way people interface with life that would make them more relaxed or more happy? You really think, like, when you’re thinking about things like that, is that like one of your considerations? Like what could I do that would help people-

: 是的。

: … that maybe they wouldn’t be able to figure out?

: 是的。比如说，有哪些事情可以做，以使未来变得更好？就像，你知道，就像这样，我想，在未来，我们是一个航天文明，在星星之间。这是非常令人兴奋的。这让我对未来充满期待。这让我想要那个未来。你知道，这些东西，需要有让你期待早上醒来的东西。

: You wake up in the morning, you look forward to the day, you look forward to the future. And a future where we are a space-faring civilization and out there among the stars, I think, that’s very exciting. That is a thing we want; whereas, if we knew we would not be a space-faring civilization but forever confined to Earth, this would not be a good future. That would be very sad, I think.

: 这将是非常可悲的，因为...

: Like I don’t want a sad future.

: ......只是地球本身的有限寿命------。

: 是的。

: … and the solar system itself. But even though it’s possibly — You know, I mean, how long do they feel like the sun and the solar system is going to exist? How many hundreds of millions of years?

: Well, it’s probably, if you’re saying when does the sun boil the oceans-

: 对。

: 大约5亿年。

: So, is it sad that we never leave because in 500 million years, that happens? Is that what you’re saying?

: No. I just think like if there are two futures, and one future us we’re out there among the stars, and the things we read about and see in science fiction movies, the good ones are true, and we have these starships, and we’re going see what other planets are like, and we’re a multi-planet species, and the scope and scale of consciousness is expanded across many civilizations, and many planets, and many star systems, this is a great future. This is a wonderful thing to me. And that’s what we should strive for.

: But that’s biological travel. That’s cells traveling physically to another location.

: 是的。

: Do you think that’s definitely where we’re going?

: 没有。

: Yeah, I don’t think so either. I used to think so. And, now, I’m thinking more likely less than ever. Like almost every day less likely.

: 我们肯定可以去月球和火星。

: 是的。你认为我们会殖民化吗？

: 我认为我们会去小行星带。我们还可以去木星、土星的卫星，甚至去冥王星。

: That’d be the craziest place ever if we colonize Mars, and reform it, and turn it into like a big Jamaica. Just oceans and-

: 我认为，我们应该。我认为这将是伟大的。

: 我的意思是，想象一下，有-

: 这将是伟大的。令人惊叹。

: It’s possible, right?

: 是的。

: 我们可以把整个事情变成坎昆。

: 好吧-

: 我的意思是，随着时间的推移。

: It wouldn’t be easy but yes.

: 对。

: 你可以只是温暖 - 你可以温暖它。

: 是的，你可以给它加温。你可以加入空气。你在那里得到一些水。我的意思是，随着时间的推移，数亿年或任何需要的东西。

: We’ll be a multi-planet species.

: 是的，这将是惊人的。

: We’re a multi-planet species.

: 如果我们能-

: That’s what we want to be-

: ...... 合法地喜欢空调-

: 很好。

: ...土星。

: I’m pro-human.

: 我也是。是的，我也是。

: I love humanity. I think it’s great.

: We’re glad as a robot that you love humans because we love you too, and we don’t want you to kill us and eat us. And-

: I mean, you know, strangely, I think a lot of people don’t like humanity and see it as a blight, but I do not.

: Well, I think one of those — I think, part of that is just they’ve been — you know, they’ve been struggling. When people struggle, they associate their struggle with other people. They never internalize their problems. They look to other people as holding them back, and people suck, and fuck people, and it’s just — You know, it’s a never ending cycle. But not always. Again, most people are really good. Most people, the vast majority.

: 这听起来可能很老套。

: 这听起来确实很老套。

: 但爱是答案。

: 这是你的答案。

: 是的。

: Yeah, it is. It sounds corny because we’re all scared. You know, we’re all scared of trying to love people, being rejected, or someone taking advantage of you because you’re trying to be loving.

: 当然。

: 如果我们都能放松，彼此相爱呢？

: It wouldn’t hurt to have more love in the world.

: It definitely wouldn’t hurt.

: 是的。

: 这将是很好的。

: 是的，我们应该这样做。

: 是的，我同意，伙计。

: 就像真的一样。

: How are you going to fix that? Do you have a love machine you’re working on?

: 没有，但可能会花更多的时间和朋友在一起，减少社交媒体的时间。

: 现在，从你的应用程序中、从你的手机中删除社交媒体，会给你带来10%的幸福提升吗？你认为这个百分比是多少？

: 我想大概是这样的，是的。

: 是的，一个好的10%。

: Yeah, I mean, the only thing I’ve kept is Twitter because I kind of like meet some means of getting a message out, you know.

: 对。

: Well, that’s about it. So far so good.

: Well, what’s interesting with you, you actually occasionally engage with people on Twitter.

: Yeah, that’s-

: 这其中有多大比例是个好主意？

: 好问题。

: Probably 10%, right? It’s hard.

: It’s mostly — I think, it’s on balance, more good than bad, but there’s definitely some bad. So-.

: 你是否曾经...

: 希望好的方面多于坏的方面。

: Do you ever think about how odd it is, the weird feeling that you get when someone says something shitty to you on Twitter, and you read it? That weird feeling. This weird little negative jolt. It’s like a subjective negative jolt of energy that you don’t really need to absorb, but you do anyway. Like, “I want to fuck this guy. Fuck him.”

: I mean, there’s a lot of negativity on Twitter.

: It is, but it’s a weird in it’s form. Like the way, if you ingest it as if you’re like — you try to be like a little scientist as you’re ingesting it, you’re like, “How weird is this?” And I’m even getting upset at some strange person saying something mean to me. It’s not even accurate.

: 我的意思是，大量的负面评论，对于绝大部分，我只是忽略它们，绝大部分。

: 是的。

: 每隔一段时间，你就会抽到一些不好的东西。

: It’s not good.

: 你会犯错。

: 是的，你可以犯错误。

: 我们可以犯一些错误。

: We’re all human. We can make mistakes. Yeah, it’s hard. And people love it when you say something, and you take it back, and they’re like, “Fuck you. We saved it forever. I’ll fucking screenshot that shit, bitch. You had that thought. You had that thought.” I’m like, “Well, I deleted it.” “Not good enough. You had the thought. I’m better than you. I never had that thought. You had that thought, you piece of shit. Look, I saved it. I put it on my blog. Bad thought.”

: Yeah. I’m not sure why people think that anyone would think that deleting a tweet makes them go away. It’s like, “Hello, been on the internet for a while.”

: Yeah. Well it’s even like-

: 任何事情都是永恒的。

: And the thing is they don’t want you to be able to delete it because the problem is if you don’t delete it, and you don’t believe it anymore, it’s really hard to say, “Hey, that thing above, I don’t really believe that anymore. I changed the way I view things.”

: 是的。

: Because people would go, “Well, fuck you. I have that over there. I’m going to just take that. I’m not going to pay attention to that shit you wrote underneath it.”

: It’s on your permanent record.

: Yeah. It’s forever like a tattoo.

: Like high school, “We’ll put this on your permanent record.”

: Yeah. It’s like a tattoo. You keep it.

: 是的。

: Yeah. Well, it’s this thing where there’s a lack of compassion. It’s a lack of compassion issue. People are just like intentionally shitty to each other all the time online, and trying to catch-

: 是的。

: They’re more trying to catch people doing something that’s arrestable, like a cop trying to, like, get, you know, arrests on his record. It’s like they’re trying to catch you for something, more than they’re logically looking at it thinking it’s a bad thing that you’ve done, or that it’s an idea they don’t agree with so much, they needed to insult you. They’re trying to catch you.

: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s way easier to be mean on social media than it is to be mean in person.

: 是的。

: 更加容易。

: 是的。

: 是的。

: It’s weird. It’s not a normal way of human interacting. It’s cheating.

: 确实如此。

: You’re not supposed to be able to interact so easily when the people are not looking at.

: 是的。

: You would never do that. Don’t be so mean when somebody looking in their eyes. If you did, you’d feel like shit.

: 大多数人。

: Yeah, unless you’re a sociopath, you’d feel terrible.

: 是的。

: 埃隆-马斯克，这是我的荣幸。

: 是的，同样如此。

: 真的是这样。

: It’s been an honor. Thank you for having me.

: Thanks for doing this because I know you don’t do a lot of long form stuff like this. I hope I didn’t weird you out, and I hope you don’t get mad that you smoked weed.

: 我的意思是-

: It’s not bad. It’s legal. We’re in California. This is just as legal as this whiskey we’ve been drinking.

: 正是如此。

: 这都是好事，对吗？

: 干杯。

: 干杯。谢谢你。除了爱是答案之外，你还有什么想说的吗，因为我认为你真的把它钉在了那里。

: No. I think, you know, I think people should be nicer to each other, and give more credit to others, and don’t assume that they’re mean until you know they’re actually mean. You know, just, it’s easy to demonize people. You’re usually wrong about it. People are nicer than you think. Give people more credit.

: I couldn’t agree more. And I want to thank you not just for all the crazy innovations you’ve come up with and your constant flow of ideas but that you choose to spread that idea, which is very vulnerable, but it’s very honest, and it resonates with me.

: It’s true.

: 而且我相信它。

: It’s true.

: I believe it’s true too. So, thank you.

: You’re welcome.

: 所有你们这些混蛋在那里，友好点。乖一点，婊子。好的。谢谢你，各位。谢谢你，埃隆。

: 好的，谢谢你。

: 晚安，各位。

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