Joanne williams interview - 2020-10-26, 11.44 AM.mp3
Joanne williams interview - 2020-10-26, 11.44 AM.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Joanne williams interview - 2020-10-26, 11.44 AM.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
intro music:
Welcome to Grieve with Ease, a podcast where we talk about the many signs of loss and death. On each episode, you'll hear from a cross-section of men and women who share how they dealt with loss, found comfort and even humor during what many consider a very dark time. The show is designed to bring comfort, to answer questions and let you know you are not alone. Now, here's your host, Martika Whylly.
Martika Whylly:
Joanne Williams, LCSW has helped thousands of clients in a 30 years as a licensed mental health professional to move through fear as she shares simple and effective ways to calm anxiety, tension and worry. She is the specialist to certify clients for emotional support animals as game changing for those struggling to navigate today's daunting times with anxiety and depression. Welcome, Joanne.
Joanne Williams:
I'm excited to be here, so definitely.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah. So last time we chatted, we're going to talk about.
Martika Whylly:
You're alright there?
Joanne Williams:
Yeah, I'll just get my dog, so he's well,
Martika Whylly:
That's OK. Do what you got to do. Do what you got to do.
Joanne Williams:
I'ii just sitting him with me and then he's in his behavior.
Martika Whylly:
Oh, that's OK. That it happens. That happens now more than ever because everybody's at home working at home. And and I think I saw on the news or was it a Facebook? I can't remember where, but the kids walked in. I think Buddy was trying to give them a professional interview or report or something, and the kids came in.
Joanne Williams:
That was a while ago. That was before we were all, you know, staying at home. And this was his first time like to be on CBS News.
Joanne Williams:
And he's in this office. You know, it's got this big professional background and then these little kids. And he's trying to push them away. And then his wife comes in and tries to drag them out. And I guess he got Rave's.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah, because it's I don't know.
Martika Whylly:
It's something that we didn't know. It's a human thing.
Joanne Williams:
It's life.
Martika Whylly:
It's life. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome when that happens. Yeah. So we're here with Joanne Williams and so when you. It's Joanne. Yes. Yes. OK, and you were going to share a little bit about.
Martika Whylly:
Guilt, was it guilt? Mm hmm. Yeah, and your and your. Your perspective on guilt and how we can kind of overcome the feelings of guilt.
Joanne Williams:
Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's just one of the things in grief that I think a lot of people have issues with that I've experienced. So, you know, if I can kind of even start from the top and tell a little bit about myself and what I've done and why I think this and and you know why I feel like I could give some recommendations, because I just feel like guilt is one of those things that can go into depression and it's no longer grief anymore. And I think that's the distinction. Sometimes I like to make the difference between grief and depression, and I think the guilt has a lot to do with.
Martika Whylly:
So when did you did you experience this personally, this guilt and what happened with you?
Joanne Williams:
Well, I mean, personally, you know, I've been a licensed mental health professional for 30 years and I've worked in so many capacities. I think I was in hospice at least three times and worked as a social worker with the families and with the person that was transitioning. And I just saw it everywhere. And through these times, you know, a lot of it. I know you said you work in a skilled nursing facility. I think that's where I saw a lot of it the most when somebody felt like they could not care for their loved one the way they wanted to or the way they perceived their mother or father that they wanted them to, they just couldn't do it.
Joanne Williams:
And maybe it was just age or illness or money, lots of different reasons. They feel guilty about not being able to do it. The process of transition to death in a way they wanted to. And so is usually, you know, that kind of perfectionist personality that felt like it should be in a certain way. And they couldn't do it. They blamed themselves.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah, it's it's hard when you have to put your mother, father, aunt or uncle in the home because, you know, dementia or Alzheimer's and you can't manage anymore. And in the household, you know, hold the household and look after because it is a full time job.
Joanne Williams:
It is. And, you know, when I saw this statistic and I think it was from an Alzheimer's organization, that 80 percent, I believe it was of the caregivers succumb to an illness before the person they were caring for died. So there is a complete strain on that caregiver. And I don't know if people really recognize how difficult it is to be a caregiver.
Joanne Williams:
And the other statistic that really concerns me is that now, along with 18 to 24 year olds, but unpaid caregivers now the suicide rate has doubled. I think people are just getting so overwhelmed.
Martika Whylly:
Within within the caregiver community.
Joanne Williams:
Yeah, unpaid caregivers, along with the younger people that just kind of are all emotional and, you know, it's going to be perfect. Yeah, unpaid caregivers were that other class, let's call it, that are so overwhelmed that at this point, suicide has doubled this year, this year, not any other years.
Joanne Williams:
It's doubled this year. And the CDC reported that in June.
Martika Whylly:
Wow. I did not know that. That's a big that's a huge problem. And you know what? I could I could see it doesn't it doesn't surprise me, which is why I'm so adamant about myself, my coworkers treating each other with respect and talking to the people in a kind manner instead of, well, that's not the way it's supposed to be done in that sort of tone. And it kind of irks me because I'm thinking, well, you don't know what people are going through. And yeah, I, I, you know, experienced it.
Joanne Williams:
And paid caregivers.
Joanne Williams:
I mean,
Martika Whylly:
These are paid ones.
Joanne Williams:
Talk about that work. I mean, how much of yourself do you have to just constantly give out and you got this whole other thing going on with family or or friends or children or parents or or, you know, all kinds of financial or other things going on. I mean, to me, they're heroes, too.
Joanne Williams:
I just feel like, you know, we think about the nurses on the front lines, but I'm telling the caregivers to me right up there in that same category.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah. And they're much they're much needed and much needed. Yeah. Yeah. They were always looking for PSW's and I'm hoping that, you know, those those courses that that are available, because I heard in our area that one of the one of the colleges stopped the one course the PSW course, because there was no one interested. Yeah, no one interested in which I can understand. But at the end of the day, you know, we're all going to get older. We're all going to need care. And I thought if this continues, we're going to have to go back to how we used to do it, which is somebody is at home always looking after the pets or the elderly. You know, the kids are usually gone, you know, but there's usually somebody's always home. And in other cultures, they don't have nursing homes. They don't believe in that. But it's you know, it's a way of like, OK, you're we don't you're a burden on us. That's how it seems, isn't it? And, you know, somebody else could look after you. We have to, you know, work and pay the bills and all that. And we don't have time because it is a full time job. And I think I mean, if it doesn't improve, that's how I that's how I see it. It's it's either we're going to have to look after our elderly ourselves. I mean, hopefully, you know, there's family members that have compassion. And I've seen stories where family members do have the compassion and they make it work somehow because they don't want their loved one in a nursing home. Yeah.
Joanne Williams:
You know, something I'd like to even talk about or ask you more about, too, is like those different cultures and the way that they do grieve or the way that they do take care of their family, as you know, different than here in the U.S. Have you seen that different cultures grieve differently or.
Martika Whylly:
Well, they I'm in Canada and we still have the same nursing homes and retirement homes, but you do have families that are from other places, so people that are from other places that, you know, PSW's, for example, and see somebody from the Philippines. And and the one lady said when she gets older, she's just going to go back home. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's no care. You know, there's really not the care over here and over there. Back home, they don't have nursing homes. The they're always looked after by their family. It's not an issue. It's expected. It's part of the culture. And that's just how they live. And I'm pretty sure it works out better. And I think with the grieving process now, I'm just speaking in terms of of how I would see it. I mean, if they're there all the time and you get to spend time, there's not the guilt there, because as a family, they know that they've done everything for grandma, they've done everything for grandpa. They've had a good life. They made sure they were comfortable and had what they needed. And so I doubt very much they'd feel guilty when they passed it. Probably more of a relief. You know, they're not suffering. They're not you know, they couldn't do for themselves and now they're in a better place, that sort of feeling.
Joanne Williams:
You know, I've even seen a lot of people having kind of more complicated grief because they're even guilty that they have released. A lot of times with Alzheimer's, you know that you know how it it is very taxing on the family, but sometimes that would be a conversation would we have to have because they they do feel relief that they are released, you know, out of this mentality that, you know, is not really who they truly were or are. Yeah. You know, the other thing I've I've kind of witnessed is like in a culture like Hispanic culture, it seems like their grief is more outward and through yelling and throwing themselves or running down the street, you know, just much more exaggerated than here in the US. It seems like we're very, you know, somber and quiet and and kind of hold it in. And that's something I've seen as prolonging the grief process when somehow there is not a process to express it, talk about it. And I do feel like here in the U.S., there is so much denial about even death. It's like, is something wrong with it. Or we're not supposed to talk about it. And it's very perplexing to me that especially where I've worked with it so many times and seen the beauty in it, you know, just the the transition of it and. And had really good, I would call it we used to, in which we call them good deaths, that people could just gently move through to pass on.
Joanne Williams:
And it just always surprises me that, you know, we talk a lot about medical power of attorney, you know how important that is and have your wishes known to your family and talk about it, what your wishes are. And it was always just like, oh, I don't know if I can have that conversation or the daughter or son. I don't know if I can have that. Listen to that. I don't want to.
Joanne Williams:
Is that part of your experience, too?
Martika Whylly:
Yeah. When my when my grandmother died, it was I wasn't really privy to the funeral arrangements. I was the adults. They didn't want the children or, you know, even adolescents or teenagers to really worry about or think about because, you know, again, the death itself was, you know, sudden. So and I do find that they try to we try to protect our children from the pain, the hurt, the confusion. But I think that does more disservice than anything. I think, you know, we should be talking about death, that we're all going to die in school, grief, loss in school, a lot of things that should be talked about in school that aren't. But I think that if it was explained that we do die, this is what happens after we die, where we go, where all spirit. This is a physical realm, the physical dimension. You know, we're from the light. We're all from the same place. We're all kin and connected because no matter where you are, who you are, we are born. We're all going to die. And so with that in mind, I think that would change a lot of people's perspective on life itself. It's like, OK, well, if I'm going to die and you don't know when, because some people die at a young age and some people die of old age and you don't know. But for me, every time a relative of mine passed, it just made me want to live more. But I think part of it was just I was really reckless and I was kind of angry because, you know, they were leaving and I and I couldn't join them because I was suicidal and I couldn't kill myself. I it's not something I openly admit, but I just felt like a cartoon character.
Martika Whylly:
You know, you fall off a cliff and then you get back up after you go splat my what am I doing still in the physical realm?
Martika Whylly:
So but when you when you explain when you explain it and it's something that's taught every year, like in school, there's math, every year there's history, every year there's geography. Every year, every year you're drilled into these subjects. And if we were drilled in, you know, death and then the celebration of life with that's what that's all about, what that means, I think people would look more. Would look forward to their death as opposed to fearing it.
Joanne Williams:
But I think especially right now with covid-19 and here, you know, in the U.S., we have.
Joanne Williams:
We're going up to 200,000 in the next probably seven days,
Martika Whylly:
Probably less than, less than that.
Joanne Williams:
It'll probably be less than that to be at 200,000.
Martika Whylly:
It's only one ninety nine something.
Joanne Williams:
Oh, I thought it was 190. So, you know, it's so.
Martika Whylly:
It changes. It doesn't even matter.But there's a lot of death.
Joanne Williams:
Think of the families.
Joanne Williams:
That's just not even two hundred thousand. It's 200 times probably four or 10 of the people that are experiencing this loss. And to not have some kind of background that you're talking about or having a family discussion or even family values of beliefs about it to talk about, I think we're not doing a service to our children. Like you're saying.
Joanne Williams:
I don't think that preparation I remember the first death was my grandmother and I might have been in fourth grade. I was pretty little. And they brought us into a big church, was her Methodist church. But they, you know, they laid her out in front in that in a open casket. I'd never seen a dead body. Nobody said a word to me about any of this or, you know, explained it. And I remember just seeing her and probably screaming out, crying for sure.
Joanne Williams:
But just what you know, what is this? And crying. And they basically dragged me out of the church.
Martika Whylly:
Well, yeah, well, that's to be expected. If you have no OK, you know, you're going to see your grandmother. She's in that, you know, if it's OK, you know, let you know what's happening. And if you can't handle it, it's OK. I'll come outside with you.
Joanne Williams:
Right. And instead, it was the shush, shush, you know, like I'm doing something wrong and having no clue whatsoever. So that was probably my first death experience and you know, every since I feel like so many things in my family, I had to learn myself, I'm like, oh, that's not the way to do it. How is the way to do it? What do I need to ask? What do I need to learn?
Joanne Williams:
So it really made me more inquisitive and asked probably better questions, because whatever my family did was not the way I'm teaching my family about it.
Martika Whylly:
And they and they didn't know because their generations they didn't talk about anything. I mean, look at the pictures of the people. It no smiles. Now, they didn't talk about sex or death or anything that was taboo. That would have been taboo.
Joanne Williams:
Everything was a sin.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah.
Joanne Williams:
My grandmother that died dancing was a sin, not singing. I was surprised it wasn't singing, but it was like these things that were like normal movement, you know, no, don't do it. You know, it was it was just a real, almost puritanical way to look at things that everything was wrong to do it. And it didn't help. I don't think expression or understanding or being allowed kind of to be yourself.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah, well, and that's the thing, too, like, you know, we we shouldn't we should be able to express ourselves. But, you know, if you're if you're a young person and you're going to a funeral for the first time, I think it would you think that the parents would prepare that person or even somebody who's never been to a funeral before? You know, it might be open casket, be prepared. And if they don't know what that means, you just say, well, it means the body's in there. You'll see it the you know, their dead body. And if that bothers you and I know some people would bother. So they would skip that part of the wake and maybe just attend the funeral service, because that's usually the close, usually a closed casket. Again, it depends on the religious wishes or background of the family.
Joanne Williams:
Mm hmm. Yeah, yes. Yeah. That yeah. It you know, something that I shouldn't say old, but an older hospice nurse once told me that I thought was something interesting, that she said people die the way they lived. And I always thought that was an interesting way of looking at, you know, the way some people. Their death experience is, you know, if you're grumpy and unhappy and you're probably going to, as you go through that process, pretty grumpy and unhappy and the happy go lucky type usually can move through it a little easier. But have you ever heard anything like that? I thought that was kind of interesting.
Martika Whylly:
I might have heard that saying before, but it was a long time ago. It it does sound familiar, but I haven't heard that in a long time. And that's that's a good one. I like that. Yeah, I find that. You know, we choose we choose when to go and. Again, we do create our own reality. Some of us go kicking and screaming, I'm not ready to go yet, and some people just kind of keep it very quiet. And they they know, but they don't want anybody else to know that they're going to go and then they just go.
Martika Whylly:
And so depends, it's an individual choice,I think isn't it?
Joanne Williams:
Absolutely that's what I think to you know, something else I always found is I really don't have this time to chat either with somebody about the death process. So this is kind of interesting to me in the sense I've been with several, many people as they passed over. They even asked me to be there. And I always felt like it was such a privilege. But, you know, the same thing I saw almost every time was that even before, you know, the last brass or the, you know, rattling or the breathing part that kind of presents in the end, I would see their eyes. I always kind of looked at an experience like they're looking inward instead of outward at the world. It was just kind of a glassiness or, you know, they weren't there any longer. They were already looking in a different direction is the way I kind of experienced it. And so I knew, you know, it was it was close. But I I don't know. I guess that gave me comfort in a way that at some point, you're not this body, you know, you're not this pain, you're not this experience that's happening any more in the physical body, you're already looking. And I think that's probably when people see angels or see family or, you know, have this experience that they're going towards now instead of that physical pain or whatever they may be experiencing in their bodies.
Martika Whylly:
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's that's interesting. Well, I witnessed a a few deaths or dying's working in the nursing home, but I haven't been there for their last breath, but I kind of, you know, peeked in the room and OK, this one's going to go soon. Like usually the nurses know. They'll, this one going to go this evening. You know, they probably will make it to the morning, that sort of thing. But how do you. When it comes to, let's say especially now, if somebody you know is. In palliative care or in the nursing home, and they were. They're going to go soon and of course, their families, I think now in Canada, we're slowly starting to let families come in when somebody is about to pass, we're allowing that now. But I could just imagine and maybe you could touch on this a little bit of the guilt that some families might feel not being able to see their loved ones when they're when they're dying and they're going to pass. Do you have like do you still have connections with any nursing homes about. Like, do they call their families? Can they come in and see them before they pass? Like, what's what's that like. Do they feel guilty that they can't.
Joanne Williams:
You know, I don't have real current information right now what's going on in nursing homes, I think I've heard, you know, some states are allowing things or one person in it sounds like they're doing a little bit more of it now that it's a lot of places the covid is going down. But, you know, one thing I had seen a lot of that, you know, family would stay in the room, stay in the room before, you know, stay in the room with the family and not go take care of themselves and don't go eat. Or when they finally had to go home and get a shower or go down to eat, that is when the person chose to pass over. And that's where countless families would.
Joanne Williams:
I wasn't there. Why wasn't I there? And I should have could would should have been there. And that was another place that I just always could tell them, you know, I saw this all the time, that I believe the person did not want them there, that it made it easier for them to pass when they were not there. And it seemed like they felt better about that, that they weren't neglecting, you know, that their loved one, that truly it was the person's choice to go when they weren't there.
Martika Whylly:
Right. So how do you how do you what would you say to somebody then that's feeling guilty because they weren't there? You know, like I missed that window, what what would you say, like they went to go home and eat and take a shower and come back and a person's past, and then now they feel guilty. What sort of what sort of advice or.
Joanne Williams:
Yeah, well, and I kind of tell them that story that that's what my experience has been, that they do it on purpose. They did not want you there and made it easier on them not to be there. And I would always point out what they did do already.
Martika Whylly:
So do you think that would that would probably make them feel a little bit better? They would feel maybe less guilty when they thought, OK, well, then this was supposed to happen and the person. Yeah.
Joanne Williams:
And I always pointed out what they did do. Look how many days you were there. Look how you did care. Look how you made sure that things were done. You were here for them, you know, so was that reassurance they were looking for? I think sometimes it certainly in the American culture, I think we use guilt almost as a self abusive kind of way of saying we're bad or we we can't do things perfectly or, you know, used against us. Sometimes even in parenting, you know, the guilt, guilt can make them behave. And I and I always remind people that guilt really has a purpose. The true sense of the information given is that you are doing it is against your morals and values something that you did, you know, like when you put your hand in the cookie jar, when your mom just said, we're having dinner, don't eat that. You're supposed to hear feel a twang, you know, to not do something. But this is different. This is not true guilt. They weren't doing anything wrong. But somehow, you know, I think in our culture, a lot of times it's used against ourselves, like we're not perfect. We're not good enough. And it's I have to say, wait a minute, you got to relook at that, because everything I've seen that is just so not true. She loved you dearly or he loved you dearly and you both showed that. So I think it's reminding them of all that they did do.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah. And it's really guilt is a redundant emotion, isn't it? It's just there's no point in feeling guilty of something that has this cannot change the past. Everything is happening for a reason. We might not like what is happening, but again, we don't have to like everything that's happening. If we liked everything that's happening all the time, we wouldn't grow our move. We would know everything's great. I don't have to do anything. And just everything's done. And you could just sit here and smile away and you wouldn't you wouldn't grow if there wasn't a bit of discomfort and pain. You know, nothing. No pain, no gain,
Joanne Williams:
Absolutely contrasted everything to feel the differences in this. You know, one thing, though, I would caution people with about guilt, with grief, ongoing grief, that grief is not depression and depression is not grief. And I feel like a simplified way to talk about depression is that it's stuck. You're stuck, you're digging yourself deeper. You can't get out of the feelings. You're just in them constantly and not able to get out yourself. And I think sometimes with guilt, if you continue with that line of thinking or emotion, it can go into depression because you're just not forgiving yourself.
Joanne Williams:
You're not allowing the process to move the grief process, move through the way it's going to move through, you know, till acceptance and you even had an additional after acceptance.
Joanne Williams:
But, yeah, I think it's important we forgive ourselves. I feel it's important we don't get stuck in blaming ourselves or others. Sometimes that can blame and can go to you. Didn't do what you should have done. And I'm mad at you and you know, those kind of things. And again, it doesn't help me. What I see is moving through that grief process to acceptance.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah, well, blaming is never one. One thing I remember taking years ago personal growth seminar for a weekend, and it was all about kind of being one hundred percent responsible for your life and not blaming others. And it was really tough for a lot of us because we're so quick. And for me personally, it was I was so quick. No, it's all his fault. He's the one that, you know, screwed everything up. And now we're, you know, we're no longer together. And and and and, you know, I'd have, you know, an accountability buddy saying, OK, I get that. But I want you to look a little bit deeper, you know, without me yelling at that person. And you know what?
Martika Whylly:
I really did have to a lot of soul searching and like, yeah, that was that was me. It was all me. And I still have. Remind myself of this. This is why, you know, in school we learned the same subjects day in, day out, and I think as adults we should be learning these subjects day in, day out, you know, personal growth, how to love yourself first. And it's not you owe me and you, you know, need to give me more. Just give more to yourself. Do for yourself sometimes that you're being selfish and other people might say, hey, you're not looking after me. And I'm you know, I'll say, you know, I'm looking after me. Thanks for noticing. You know, and I'm in this move on, you know.
Joanne Williams:
Well, you know, the way I always talked about blame because I feel like that's a biggie and a lot of different arenas. But I always felt like taking full responsibility was the other side of the coin it's blame or responsibility. And I always like and I forget his name. It was a book on the 20. I think it's a 20 second miracle and which the book, the whole thing of the book is once you take full responsibility for every single solitary thing that's happened in your life. Miracles happen. I found that to be true. But I just like you. I feel like I struggled with that because it's so quick to blame, you know. Yeah. My mother, everything. Yeah. My mother always had this saying, "Establish blame first" and she said it and it kind of kidding way, but not really. I mean in situations that's what we seem to do is, you know, establish who's at fault. Who's to blame?
Martika Whylly:
Yeah. Yeah, well, we have a culture that is, I think, learning that these these old sayings and ways of being when it comes to blame or, you know, building nursing home so we can just kind of discard our elderly are soon hopefully coming to a bit of a you know, they're being scrutinized or being looked at, at least over here in Canada. There's a lot of things that have changed because of covid-19, positive changes. And I'm so grateful for that because trust me, the amount of emails and phone calls to the ministry and head office over the years, I'm pretty sure long before I came upon the scene at this nursing home probably went unheard. But now they're having to do it. They're forced to do it. And apparently our company is being investigated. Yeah, that's that's the word and, you know, in the home that it's being investigated and who knows if that's true, but I think they all should be investigated because honestly, the conditions in that nursing home were like third world country, I would expect. In a first world country it was really bad. And it's it's quite unproved sense, which I'm grateful for. But who knows what the other nursing homes look like.
Joanne Williams:
I know and I felt like that as a social worker in nursing homes, that if somebody did not have a family member that was coming in, it was almost like the accountability person for that resident that somebody needs to know. Somebody is looking over your shoulder at some point in the care that they are receiving. And and I and again, I can't blame anyone, but that's a tough job. I mean, that is just so hard. You need to do everything that's needed in so-called make money, you know, as a as a money making proposition. It's kind of like our health care in America. You know, to me, it's not to be made money on a loving way to give care somehow has to be in some kind of endeavor.
Martika Whylly:
Well, we should we shall see in the days to come how it all unfolds. But, you know, there are there are relatives that will come through the home and, you know, they see what's going on. They make comments and write letters and to head office or ministry, I'm pretty sure. And I'm sure they've noticed also the improvements, at least in our home. And but, yeah, I, I don't know. I think I think we're really backwards as a culture when it comes to looking after our young and our elderly. We need to be at home more, looking after our young and our elderly. Our young wouldn't be so crazy right now and our elderly wouldn't be neglected. So we're really out of balance and a lot of ways and and I think with all these natural disasters and covid happening and all this stuff, I'm hoping that it sheds light with people to kind of rethink about the way we live, how we interact with each other, how we do things. And just kind of move forward from there, hopefully, you know, everybody's on the same page and they agree.
Martika Whylly:
Because that's almost half the battle, isn't it, just agreeing on how to do something,
Joanne Williams:
You know, or having the intention of what it is you do want? I think sometimes, and especially with all these things that are going on, are, you know, God bless them if they even have a loss that they're also dealing with, we get so overwhelmed. And I and I think it's so important because we hear it on the media. We hear whatever. But what are you for? You know, if you are improved conditions are for more loving contact with elderly or our children to build better schools that do provide a life education. You know, just stating those intentions to me is what I have to believe makes a difference as long as we don't get like because it's so easy to just go into one of complacency.
Martika Whylly:
But complacency is it's going to bite everybody in the butt because you can't be complacent anymore. We're in the we're in an age where it's either if you're complacent, you probably won't be around to see the you know, tomorrow maybe, I don't know, but either fight or flight.
Joanne Williams:
All right. Yeah. Are you feeling, though, a progression in a positive way? You know, I, I guess that I that's my hope for sure.
Martika Whylly:
Mhm. Well, you know, sometimes things need to fall apart in order them to come together. You need to breakdown before you have a breakthrough. And this is what's happening because this whole with global warming and how we are treating, you know, our elderly, how we treat each other, how we look at death as a terrible thing. And it's not it's a it's a blessing. It's it's a gift. Death is a gift. It is a blessing. And we just we just have this backwards way of being. And it's and it's showing in how we and our society in every aspect of our society when it comes to our environment, when it comes to our physical ways of being, you know, psychological, emotional, all that kind of stuff. And this is why I'm living by myself. It's been so therapeutic because it's the world is kind of nutty. And I and I go home after, you know, being in the nursing home. And I'm surrounded by people. And it's funny because I could see the same person five times a day and they each time say hello to me when I pass by.
Martika Whylly:
And it doesn't matter for the resident or co-worker. And I'm like, I don't have to say hi to you, oh, my gosh. But, you know, it's it's an interesting place.
Martika Whylly:
It keeps me. It keeps me. Always mindful. But at the same time, when I do come home, it's like, you know, I could kind of breathe, I can kind of. Let all that stress go, because everybody is going through something, everybody needs help with something.
Joanne Williams:
And I am just saying that I could just kind of imagine the gratitude you feel or, you know, looking around, and I think that is a really important skill right now. What are you grateful for? What is it that's going on in your life that is going, well, you can look around and see other things, but, you know, it's not so bad.
Martika Whylly:
Well, and that's the thing I said to my coworkers when this Covid thing first hit, at first I thought, we're all going to have two weeks off. I'm like yahoo! Two weeks. And then my boss said, no, no, no, no, no, you don't get 2 weeks. I'm like well, I knew that.
Martika Whylly:
I knew that because he's going to look after, you know, who's right, who's going to feed them, who's going to clean the place, who's going to look after them and, you know, to care for them so that you could feel the uncertainty in the first couple of weeks when everything was shut down, you could feel it in the air. So so I'm walking through doing, you know, what I need to do. And I said to, you know, a couple of nurses and the PSW's said, "we're essential!" Guess what? We're essential. You know, all those movie actors and sports people or, you know, everybody else is on hiatus. Right. They're closed down. And but we're essential. And and you know what? That you can feel the energy lift a little bit because of that. It made me feel better, like that's why I do it, to make myself feel better. And whoever else is listening, if it makes them feel better, then that's a plus.
Joanne Williams:
That's really good because.
Martika Whylly:
For the first time, we all felt like celebrities because it was all over the news, all over the media, we had teachers and kids, the community came and, you know, I wish I had taken pictures with my phone, but, you know, drawing in chalk on the ground, we love you. You're doing a great job. We support you. We appreciate you, that sort of thing.
Martika Whylly:
And that that and of course, we were we started getting spoiled every Wednesday. Everyone did Friday at the Lions Club, donated the doughnuts and coffee and muffins and tea and all that other kind of stuff every Wednesdays and Fridays. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's fattening us up. But it was really nice. It was it was really nice.
Joanne Williams:
You deserve it. Can you and you guys felt you deserved it, you know, and. Yeah. And you got recognized. I think that's so important.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing too, because a lot of people were out of work and and we still had jobs. And that was the other thing that I was so grateful for. And my landlord was asking me, he's like, can you are you get this month? And I'm like, yeah lucky. I still hope so, I hope. But I don't think he's the type of landlord. I mean, I don't think he would be the type to really kick you out right away. Like, if he because of this covid. Of course I'm saying that. But who knows? Because some people are have more compassion than others because, you know, he's got his bills to pay.
Joanne Williams:
Right. Or. Exactly. Or he can afford to push his off or has enough to be able to you know, something that's weird that's happened here in America is.
Joanne Williams:
The ability to evict people out of the housing or rental housing or apartments kind of ended. A couple of months ago, and so there was this period of time that and they were particularly something like 40 million people, we're going to get evicted. I mean, this huge number. So just last week, because our Senate and Congress couldn't get the bill passed to extend that, our Center for Disease Control, the CDC, our kind of our health department, they put out that a mandate that nobody can be evicted right now. I was so glad to see that. And they did it because of health concerns.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah.
Joanne Williams:
Where are people going to go?
Martika Whylly:
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking if somebody doesn't step up and say something and do something, they're going to have a bigger problem on their hands. They even know what to do with that, you know, and it's it's all about human. What's it called, not even human rights, but, you know, just human.
Joanne Williams:
Humanity.
Martika Whylly:
Humanity exactly. And yeah, because it's like, why would you do something like that? Like, now you're you're creating more of a problem. I don't think people are seeing down the road. You have 40 million people out on the street, OK, there is a huge problem or a disaster waiting to happen.
Martika Whylly:
So I'm glad that...
Joanne Williams:
Or in the shelters with other people or even going into their grandma grandpa's house.
Joanne Williams:
No, they didn't. You know, somebody saw that. But our Center for Disease Control put that out. And I don't even know if people know that, but they cannot be convicted, convicted. They cannot be evicted in the United States right now. So I hope people know that. So they're not being bullied and pushed out.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah, well, I. I always pray for Americans nowadays more than.
Joanne Williams:
Oh, yeah, you have to because we're not making any sense. And that's what really scares me. I mean, where is the logic? You know, following science used to be the norm and understanding it and using it. And we got about 30 percent of our population right now that's following a leader that. Doesn't believe it thinks it's a hoax and thinks they're trying right now to have this pandemic worse because it would hurt his chance to be re-elected. Where does that kind of thinking come from? And I just don't see it helpful. And that's where sometimes I feel like for me, I have to push those kinds of things and focus really focus down my focus on. I know what's true for me. I know it's true for my gratitude, my intention and what I choose. And it's like.
Martika Whylly:
And that's why. Yeah, that's why I think covid-19 has been a blessing in a in a lot of and a lot of ways, especially with your country and what's happening there, because it's really, I think, open up the eyes of some people and really seeing what somebody is made of. Right. Like so and even our leader to like I mean, we don't have a perfect one, but at least he's not trying to kill us, you know. Yeah. At least he's not trying to kill us.
Martika Whylly:
And trust me, if he what Canadians have a lot more backbone than we give credit for. We're like very polite. But then the 180 is like, you don't want to cross that line. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. We're just the thing. I mean, just how cute too. Well, you know, it all looks aside. He has to do his job. We don't care how cute he looks. He's got to do his job. Otherwise he's out.
Joanne Williams:
His wife had covid. Right?
Martika Whylly:
I don't recall to be honest with you.
Joanne Williams:
Thought so and I thought now that's going to be interesting if a leader's family member. Has this it must change the way you look at things and not to wish that on anybody, but I would think that that would change somebody's attitude.
Martika Whylly:
Well, if they're not taking it seriously and then they know somebody personally that's affected them, that that might change their attitude, which would be helpful for everybody else. But you don't want to wish that on anybody. But it seems to be the only way people can really grasp what's happening unless they experience it firsthand.
Joanne Williams:
That they have to learn, but, you know, experience is one of our best teachers and but this is a tough teacher. And and I'm afraid, you know, the knock on the door was was kind of light and now it's pounding down the door because we have not listened. I don't believe we have not taken care of our beautiful earth. And it's talking to us.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah. Well, you know what? If Mother Nature does what she's for, which is, you know, continued, which is, you know, cleaning, she's in clean mode. Who knows? Who knows? I don't know. All I know is that. There needs to be change, there needs to be. You know, a mass a mass awareness, although there there are people waking up and realizing that maybe, maybe I'm responsible for all the stuff that's going on in the world. Of course, most people wouldn't say that because they're too small and insignificant, but that's hogwash. Now, we all we're all responsible for the condition of our planet.and I'm trying.
Joanne Williams:
Our full intentions. Our intentions are powerful.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I feel very much responsible. I'd love to leave this planet better than what I left it. I don't know if I could do that. I don't know how much time?
Joanne Williams:
You are doing it right now. You are. Because I believe with this podcast, we are sending out a vibration. We are sending out something to the world. And whether they get it or whether it's pushing them away, it's having an effect. And on the people that are meant to hear this, they're gonna hear it. And it's going to. I hope so. I intention. I think you are. Absolutely. Just look at that. Look at your intention with this podcast. Helping people grieve with ease. That is is really an important thing, especially today.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah. I never knew it'd get this bad, but this is why I'm trying to get get get going on it as much as possible, you know. So I do feel. I do feel. What's the word, grateful. I feel a sense of, you know, it's rewarding for me, like, yeah, I'm helping people. I'm not just making money helping people, but I'm I don't know. I just feel better. I always know that Spirit is always watching all the time. Like, here's a joke. I was that when I first started working in the nursing home, I was asking, you know, Spirit, why am I here? Like, I really didn't want to be there. And that little voice said, well, we're taking your learning compassion and patience and vocal projection if you want to be speaker one day. And I said, oh, yeah, that's right. Because I'm yelling at people. Right. Because, you know, not yelling, but, you know, speaking up because they have a hard time hearing. And and this one day, one of one of the residents was in his wheelchair and he's rolling along. And I was trying to trying to mop this part of the floor. And so instead of just standing there watching him slowly go by, I decided to put my things down and helped him. And he says, thank you, really kind. And they said, no, I'm not. I just know that God's watching. And he started to laugh, the lady, you know, the nurse behind the counter, started to laughed because it was true, you know, like if I just stood there and watched somebody, you know, not that he was struggling, but there's they're supposed to be able to exercise their arms and get to where they're going. But I was like, I really need to do this floor here. Let me help you out. Yeah.
Joanne Williams:
Yeah, well, absolutely. In this time, I mean, it's one of the reasons I started my podcast to Anxiety Simplified. And it's I feel like we need to share whatever we know, whatever we have for free. And it's a source, you know, like I said, I've been a therapist for 30 years. I must know something in that time that, you know, I can share. And so anxiety, you know, is the biggest mental illness that most people have. And right now, they're even showing it's 33 to 50 percent of our population here in the U.S., 33 to 50 percent. So it is so invasive in every single home. And if there's some little techniques or little ways that we can just share, you know, and kind of put them out there. To me, that's a legacy.
Martika Whylly:
That is. And so you mentioned that you have your own podcast, anxiety simplified. And do you have like a a website? I guess you just you have a website also. So they check out your website and listen to your podcast if they have anxiety, as well as wanting to help grieve with ease.
Joanne Williams:
Mm hmm. And is the website the same anxiety, simplified dot net. And I offer a free well, I don't know about Canada, though, that's interesting.
Joanne Williams:
Anybody in America? Well, I suppose I can. No, that's not true. I offer a ten minute discovery session free that we want to discuss options or directions that somebody may want to go into if it's anxiety. You know, the other thing I do, I certify people to have an emotional support animal. I have a lot of Canadians actually that fly back and forth that have anxiety. About 33 percent of people who fly have anxiety to fly. And that's one way they can have their animal on their lap the entire time.
Joanne Williams:
So it's one of the ways I found to help with, you know, people lower anxiety. And so that's there as well. I do a whole separate website for that, but I'm trying to combine them and actually working on it tomorrow to update them with a free download. So there's things there and resources. I'm able to put up food resources for every state in the United States because food insecurity is a a getting to be a bigger issue if you don't have a job, you know, so and and the other thing was that veterinary resources for lower costs for your pets, because, again, this stuff is going to just start cascading.
Martika Whylly:
Yeah. So they could so they could go on your website and under the resources and they could find food resources and pet resources. So that's awesome. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. So anxiety simplified with Joanne Williams everybody. Yeah. Check that out with the resources. Well that's great because I, I watch a little bit of the news. I try not to watch too much, but from what I've seen, the food banks are being used up even more. I can't remember what the percentage is, but they're running out of food. And so you can always check out Joanne Williams anxiety simplified website to see how the resources for food and and pet. Well, thank you so much, Joanne. I really enjoyed our talk. I figure we'll wrap it up. And is there anything else that you would like to add before we go?
Joanne Williams:
You know, the only other thing I'd like to add is that I want to make sure that everybody knows there is a depression helpline. It's one 800 and and I hope everybody would even put this in their phone. So if it's not for them, they could hand this to somebody else if needed. It's actually depression or suicide hotline 1 800 273 8255. Now, you can also text.
Martika Whylly:
One more time, say one more time.
Joanne Williams:
The number, 1 800 273 8255. Or they can also text talk TALK to 741 741. And there's somebody standing by 24/7 to talk to you and just know if you have any thoughts about suicide. There's always, always options and there's always people who care.
Martika Whylly:
Thank you so much. Thank you so much. That's so important.
Joanne Williams:
You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.
Martika Whylly:
Well, thank you for being here.
outro music:
You've been listening to the Grieve with Ease podcast with your host, Martika Whylly. We hope you found comfort with what you heard. Be sure to leave a rating and review of the Grieve with ease podcast show and visit our website at Grieve with ease dotcom.
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