JZC_100120_CompPlanDiscussion_Environment.m4a

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Jeremy Stoff:
So I'm just going to go over here, the changes that we made involving this principal chapter, which is centered around promoting sustainable development and protecting natural resources. And so, again, these changes were informed by the comments before the committee and also from the memo that we got from Newtown's Environmental Advisory Committee. And as we go through, you know, I think we continue to welcome any any further comments and any recommendations from any.

Jeremy Stoff:
So first. Around climate change, the existing plan is really silent on climate change. There's there's really no reference to it pretty much at all. So we want to make sure that we address that. And so in order to do that, we added a line of administration actions to develop a climate resiliency plan to prepare for extreme weather events and utility and other disruptions. This was an admission from the Newtown EAC.

Mary Eberle:
I think you're going to have a better chance of getting it through all three municipalities if you go with climate change and that climate emergency.

Dennis Fisher:
I like the climate resiliency plan.

Jeremy Stoff:
So just in nomenclature of emergency, you're you're thinking should be changed to climate change?

Mary Eberle:
Oh, yeah. Carrot and stick.

Jeremy Stoff:
OK, and so in addition to this line item for the strategies actions there, there was some language that we added just acknowledging climate change as you know, as an existential threat to our communities and our planet. And we just noted that the policy is contained within the plan should maintain an eye towards their relationship with climate change and its impacts.

Tim Thomas:
Jeremy, can I ask... I personally certainly believe in the theory of climate change, etc., but obviously it needs a lot more study, like is there any doubt that you guys have access to a model to make predictions or is this just something ...What you do now is something that could happen down the road and we're going to be prepared for it. I mean, is there any way to model like the average temperatures might be for these claims? I have no idea. Just curious.

Jeremy Stoff:
Yeah. So when it comes to the plant itself, our view was that we would do two things. We would acknowledge climate change as as a threat and and, you know, kind of kind of tie it to the policies that are that are contained within the plan, saying that it's important to assess their relationship to climate change. And then we we wanted to put this strategies in action item. So, I mean, we didn't really we didn't get too much into data around climate change. We just kind of wanted to acknowledge this threat and kind of go from there.

Mary Eberle:
The Comprehensive Plan is the basis of your regulatory scheme. What legal authority do we have to regulate land uses based on climate change?

Thomas Cino:
And that was my question, I'm concerned about how we're using this language.

Mary Eberle:
I actually think the answer is none. So we just want to be careful that we're not setting unrealistic expectations that we should be able to deny a plan because we think that it might have an adverse impact on climate change. I think there's legislative work that needs to be done before we're able to do that.

Jeremy Stoff:
Yeah. Ok.

Tim Thomas:
I mean, I can sense, hey, somebody's looking at me. Well, prove to me that this is going to be an issue in the future. You know, I mean, personally, I think it's very prudent to do this and think about it and plan for whatever, but I'm certain people out there who don't believe in climate science at all. Whatever. I'm just wondering. I don't know if there's any doubt we can point to.

Jeremy Stoff:
Yeah, I hear your point. I'm just not sure if providing data would do anything to, you know, to fix that issue necessarily.

Chester Pogonowski:
Just as an example. I realize you have to be careful about not setting up expectations for land use. But I'm thinking about, you know, one of the complaints that I always get is that it seems like a 100 year storm happens, you know, every other year or several times a year as opposed to a hundred year storm. So when we at least recognize this as a potential threat to recommend maybe changes to our stormwater management control systems, maybe we need to plan for instead of a 100 year storm, maybe we need to plan for 150 or 200 years now. So that might be one way we could use the climate change strategy, even though we may not have any authorization to regulate the number of houses we have right now.

Mary Eberle:
But our stormwater management ordinances are drafted by the state and kind of imposed on us. Lisa of the Bucks County Planning Commission has a role in that. I'm not making a value judgment when I say imposed on us. They send us the regulation and they say, here's your stormwater management ordinance and then we fight back and say it goes too far, doesn't go far enough, and we pursue the changes that we can push through. So we're not as much in control of stormwater management as we think we are except when it comes to granting waivers.

Jeremy Stoff:
Yeah, mean, I guess when when it comes to climate change, our thinking wasn't necessarily to create something binding where where, you know, climate change had to be something considered in each and every landowner policy or something. Really, the spirit of what we were trying to say was, was any any policy contained within the comprehensive plan should at least be thinking about, you know, what, if any, are the impacts like before, before a policy is furthered, there should be some thought behind... Does it have an adverse impact on on the climate? So I don't know from a legal perspective, I don't know if that's problematic, but that that was the spirit of what we were trying to do.

Lisa Wolff:
I just think I don't know in terms of putting specifics in, but there are and there's a lot there are a lot of studies there. There are things that I think we probably could add it's if we want to sort of at least keep this in this idea, in this plan and I can check Lower Makefield, because when they updated their comprehensive plan, they really expanded... When I say expanded, you know, from a sentence to maybe a couple pages or two pages, but they've done a lot... They signed on with different, like climate cities. And so I think, you know, if that's we could look into maybe put some of that in and see think that would be worthwhile. But like Jeremy said, I do think it's sort of like... Principle, more or less in terms of not only for development, but even municipal actions.

Tim Thomas:
Yeah, I think the critics are right because you know, who who has it in? They're modeling. The people really, really know what's going to happen in the future. Insurance companies are actuaries are absolutely modeling for climate change.

Dennis Fisher:
And I think we want to keep the principle global warming and climate resiliency plan to prepare our communities for extreme weather events. But what we call it or what the name is. We can rethink that a little bit ...

Thomas Cino:
I think Dennis's comments are a good. I think we all get the spirit of this, but people are concerned about how we're using it. So it's a bigger picture and a lot of unanswered questions. And I'm not sure how we use it for planning. But that should be the defined.

Jeremy Stoff:
Well, that's helpful feedback. I mean, I kind of figured that this is a topic that would have to be workshopped a little bit. But, you know, I think it's important one. And I'm glad to hear that. There's sounds like there's some consensus, including in the plans. So native plants, this is something that we've we've heard a few times from from the folks in Newtown to include in a comprehensive plan. So we have a few items here and certain actions to establish a goal in ensuring that all community properties use native plants and new plantings and also establish a goal of transitioning at least 50 percent of private properties to include no less than 20 percent native plants. And alongside that, the removal of noxious weeds and invasive plants on community property.

Jeremy Stoff:
So the third topic is water, watersheds and stormwater. This we do have other things that we wanted to add surrounding water, but we kind of hold off on some of them for right now because in principle five in the plan, livable communities is really where more of the water issues gets discussed. And so when we get to that, well, we'll have to kind of rethink if they fit better in this section or in where they currently are in in the global community section. But we'll kind of we'll go over those when we get to that chapter of the plan. So the ones that we did include were a recommendation to increase recurring buffer protection in areas lacking sufficient vegetation buffers. And we also recommend it to promote use of vegetated buffers around the EMPs and ponds to discourage use, because there was a section in this chapter about populations that felt like an appropriate place to have this recommendation.

Jeremy Stoff:
Ok, moving on to trees, we added a couple of recommendations, one to adopt planning zoning provisions that require that any variance granted involves the elimination of existing trees, require a two for one replacement in lieu of payment for offsite replacement. Also, to explore the possibility of adopting ordinances providing for the protection of native trees. ... This kind of goes along with the native plants recommendations.

Mary Eberle:
Two for one, is that per inch?

Jeremy Stoff:
No, my interpretation was that if there was one tree taken it out and to have two replanted.

Mary Eberle:
I think most of our ordinances require that you have to replace the number of inches that the diameter ... So if you have a 12 inch tree, you have to plant four three inch trees. So that's going backwards.

Lisa Wolff:
I think yeah. I think we have to look at that.

Jeremy Stoff:
Yeah. This was I think this we took this right from something that the Newtown EAC had recommended. So yeah, we'll take another look at that.

Dennis Fisher:
You talk about the size of trees?

Mary Eberle:
Yeah, I think the the majority of the municipalities I represent, it's not just one for one or even two for two be they got a 12 inch tree, your planting four three inch ones. So we want to make sure that we don't lose that protection.

Jeremy Stoff:
Well, we'll we'll take a closer look at that.

Allen Fidler:
Jeremy, any any thoughts as to whether the tree that was removed was done for land development, for management of a threat to property or disease characteristics? I mean, if if you got a tree that's threatening your home and you have to take it down to comply with your insurance policy, are you going to have to comply with replacing that with four three inch trees?

Jeremy Stoff:
I think we're we're just talking about anything that goes through land development process.

Lisa Wolff:
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Jeremy Stoff:
So another recommendation was to enact more stringent requirements for reforestation and afforestation by developers. So, yeah, I mean, a lot of these are kind of in the same general theme. So we might have to think about if it makes sense to include all of them or certain ones, get more specific or taken out or consolidated. But these these were, you know, from the EAC. Require removal of noxious invasive plants that compete with native trees and other plants before landscaping begins as a part of planting plan for new development. Prohibit the ... Of noxious weeds and invasive plants and trees. Establish Community Tree Management program to include an inventory of other trees and wooded areas and a maintenance schedule prioritizing replacement of native trees... Herbaceous plants. To prioritize selected areas for tree management and reforestation and the removal of invasive plants, especially those that threaten the viability and regeneration of native trees and shrubs.

Jeremy Stoff:
Next, consult the DCNR, Climate Change Mitigation and Adaptation Plan to determine how best to practice stewardship of species threatened by interacting stressors of climate change.

Mary Eberle:
What does that mean?

Jeremy Stoff:
I mean, I think this this is something that could be grouped with whatever the discussion ends up being on on climate change.

Mary Eberle:
I was asking a question not challenging the statement. What does that mean?

Lisa Wolff:
I guess DCNR has plans and recommendations I'm not familiar with. We have to go back and check. But the way I interpret that, it's really recommending that the communities check that plan to sort of see how to move forward.

Mary Eberle:
Move forward with what?

Lisa Wolff:
I think basically to practice stewardship of species, how best to practice stewardship of species threatened. So maybe that's plans for certain certain species that are threatened. What are the the recommendations and how to eliminate or reduce the the stressors? I mean, I think we have to look into it, but I guess that's how how I would read that. ...

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Chester Pogonowski:
So I did this specifically come from Newtown EAC?

Jeremy Stoff:
It did. Yeah.

Chester Pogonowski:
I mean, I'm looking at Jeremy to just touch base with them and just ask them for, you know, what they actually mean by that recommendation that might actually help us out.

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Thomas Cino:
So just to follow up on Chuck's question, and I hope this this line of momentum is all of this came from the Newtown EAC or this came from the results of the survey?

Jeremy Stoff:
No, part of it came from the Newtown EAC and part of it came from this committee's feedback on the strategy and actions from the last plan and what should be kept or removed or revised.

Thomas Cino:
Ok, but but it's safe to say that most of these recommendation additions all came from the Newtown EAC.

Jeremy Stoff:
Yeah, I would say it was three quarters of them.

Mary Eberle:
Did all the EAC's review this?

Lisa Wolff:
I mean, I don't believe so.

Thomas Cino:
No, I don't think Upper Makefield EAC reviewed it.

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Lisa Wolff:
I think I mean, nobody we this wouldn't have been released to anybody else before in terms of the draft for you guys did.

Chester Pogonowski:
But I think the Newtown EAC was being proactive to try to make sure knowing that we were working on the comprehensive plan makes them make some recommendations and they've gotten themselves to us now. At some point, you know, all of the other EACs are going to have to take a look at this as they would the whole plan. When we get a draft that we're ready to start circulating the planning commissions and EACs. There'll be additional time to look at that, make changes, you know, and or subtract.

Dennis Fisher:
They were definitely trying to be proactive. Did they talk to the Planning Commission too?

Allen Fidler:
They have not made a presentation in front of the planning commission. And basically, I think we've been so preoccupied with the E30 use that and I tried to convey to the EAC in Newtown that once that is behind us, then, you know, the EACs of the respective municipalities can start to jump into it because, you know, they they're not a special interest group, but they all have a passion for the environment. And, you know, some of that passion maybe is needs to be tempered by, you know, the people that make the decisions or the supervisors and the recommendations coming from the planning commissions. But we're focused primarily on updating the SALDO to take a look at making sure that the recommended plans that are moving forward, you know, in the next comprehensive plan are reflective of what really works in the community. So, you know, I know I sat in on a couple of their meetings and, you know, they're they're very passionate about the verbiage that they're, you know, promoting in their recommendations.

Jeremy Stoff:
Yeah. One other thing that I think is important to to acknowledge is that, you know, this is the natural resources section of the plan. So right now it feels like, you know, the bulk of the comments are coming from the EAC, which grew. But it's also most of their comments were relevant, you know, particularly relevant to this chapter that we're going over right now. So, you know, the comments that as we continue to plan, there aren't as many that are applicable ....

Kathleen Pisauro:
You think we need a statement about the type of trees that would be susceptible to infestation by the lantern fly?

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Jeremy Stoff:
All right, so just a couple more items in the trees section or just one more, I guess, was to develop a plan for species diversity, stormwater mitigation, increase shade, extended green corridors and other benefits of trees.

Jeremy Stoff:
There was some concern that the EAC voiced over Styrofoam and plastic containers. So this is the recommendation that came from that was to support voluntary programs, to drastically reduce the use of non-recyclable and single-use plastics, including carry bags, styrofoam, beverage containers, plastic straws and stirrers, and other disposable items with the eventual goal of total elimination.

Jeremy Stoff:
OK, so this section is on renewable energy, so this was one of the shifts that this section had in the earlier plan, much of the conversation at the time of that plan was around energy conservation. So since then, the shift has been kind of more towards renewable energy. So we wanted that to be reflected in the plan, too. So first, we we wanted to highlight the Jointure's 2013 adoption of the solar panel ordinance provision and Chester they mentioned something around windmills, too. I'm not familiar with with the windmill provision in the ordinance, but maybe somebody has some more context background on that.

We did adopt something around windmills. I guess it's something we should probably include in here... And and and, you know, we're starting to see a lot more push about windmills in general. I sit on the executive board for the Bucks County Association of Township Officials, and there is some discussion amongst different townships within Bucks County talking a lot more about windmills and solar. So, you know, it's something we need to keep ahead of.

Mary Eberle:
Yeah, there's a little there's a little municipality that I represent that's going to go on solar for their township building and traffic signals. And they're they're doing a great job. What I'm concerned about as the solicitor to the Jointure is.. A comprehensive plan is a planning tool. It is the basis upon which your land use ordinances are drafted. How is the use of plastics fold into that? And I mean, I don't want to use plastic. I cut down on my personal plastic use. This is not a philosophical discussion on whether all of those things aren't great for the environment and for the community and something we should all be doing. But from a legal standpoint there's a list in the MPC of the things you're supposed to have in a comprehensive plan. And I don't know what category that would fit under.

Thomas Cino:
So so from that point, I agree with the thinking of that Mary. As we're reading through this and we're going from one to the next item, I almost feel like we are agreeing to add this to all of our ordinances. I'm not sure how we are going to use this information. I think that we should kind of footnote that this discussion about these inputs as recommended inputs and we'll have to have to define how we are going to use that.

Mary Eberle:
I think it's noble and laudable to recommend that we ought to reduce our plastic ... straws and all the things that are just terrible for the environment in the world that we live in. But like my job when I sit here is to make sure you're staying within the goal posts, within the end lines of the law. And I'm struggling. And I would take another look at it when we are done ... And I don't know what category in the comprehensive plan section of the MPC any of this would fall under.

Jeremy Stoff:
So, I mean, I would say that the way that I look at it is there are certain areas of comprehensive plans that, while not legally binding, still kind of are statements of priorities of the community. And, you know, I don't think I mean, I'll take a look at it too, but I think I mean, I think there are areas that can be expanded from what the MPC says. And there, again, are not legal consequences ...you know if we put a recommendation to support voluntary program suggested that we wouldn't be legally binding the jointure to do that. But I think I think we would just be saying this is a priority, something that, you know, the Jointure is concerned about.

Joseph Conroy:
If I can comment on this. You know, I see all these and I agree with some of these points, but this is really a comprehensive plan and this is more tactical. Instead of being a strategic one, you're down into the weeds. And I think this plan is more a strategic plan and you need to develop a tactical plan from that.

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Chester Pogonowski:
Unless unless if you start, you might be able to use this for, like if you were doing ... If you had some sort of application that required a conditional use. Let's say a fast food restaurant is an example. You might work it in a conditional use that they not use plastic containers or that they use, you know, recyclable type materials for serving food. It might be, you know, one way to to work it into the into the the planning stage for, you know, for for development.

Joseph Conroy:
Well, I agree with that ... I still can't wrap my head around it.

Thomas Cino:
So just so let's follow up Joe's comments that said so, for example, number five says Plastics and I'm assuming it says we're going to try to eliminate the use of a plastics or styrofoam. What does that mean? Are we saying that the Jointure now eliminates plastic and Styrofoam?

Jeremy Stoff:
No, I think I think it's just a statement that this is a policy direction that the Jointure is in favor of pursuing, supporting voluntary programs to to do it.

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Thomas Cino:
So that's that's the hard part, is that is that I think Mary said it good ... This is all good stuff and I'm not disagreeing with it.. Just a question. How do we do that? I think that's the disconnect.

Mary Eberle:
This is a planning document. This is a land use planning document. What... How does using plastic straws affect a land use planning document?

Jeremy Stoff:
Well, so yeah, I guess then it's a philosophical question here, because to me this is more than a land use planning document, you know. A comprehensive plan to me, the way I look at as a planner is land-use planning is obviously a primary component of the comprehensive plan But there are there are more things that, you know, that it can do.

Mary Eberle:
Well, I don't know where you went to school, and I'm sure that maybe if you went to school out of state the general planning courses that your experience with ... The comprehensive plan is a specific document authorized under the municipality's planning code as the basis upon which your land use ordinance will be based. It isn't as broad as you're saying.

Jeremy Stoff:
Well, I mean, I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I think that's that's true, obviously. But I think that, you know, there are instances where it can it can be broader, not from a legal perspective, you know, not from a legally binding perspective, but it is an opportunity for a community to voice support or priority for certain policies that they want to, you know, that they want to explicitly outline.

Mary Eberle:
I agree with you completely. I think this is a great tool for a municipality to articulate policies and goals that it wants to achieve through land use. And a lot of those policies and goals can address things, especially environmental things. And some of the things that you talked about, about protecting our waterways and making sure that there's no encroachments within 50 feet or yards or whatever of the stream, creating no ... zones along stream beds. Those are all planning tools. And I think that those things are wonderful tools for municipalities to insert in in a comprehensive plan.

Lisa Wolff:
We can certainly look at this again. We do want to try to consider all the input we get from the various committees and agencies. But it is you know, it has to sort of be vetted with everybody. So, you know, it's a good discussion. And we can go back and look at this again and see how we can maybe refit it in or else maybe modify it. It doesn't have to stay in the way it is. And if the committee chooses not to include it, that that is fine.

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Lisa Wolff:
Just because we have it in this draft, there's good discussion that maybe it shouldn't be or maybe maybe there's ways to modify it.

Dennis Fisher:
I agree with that approach. This is seen for the first time here.

Thomas Cino:
And so for the sake of discussion, why don't we just agree that at this point, this is input that we received and we'll figure out what to do with it going forward? Let's just keep on going.

Good.

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