Historic Preservation Commission - January 27,2021
Historic Preservation Commission - January 27,2021: Video automatically transcribed by Sonix
All right. Happy New Year, I'm playing off of Ron's gracious lead with that.
And welcome to the January 27th, twenty twenty one meeting of the Lake Forest Historic Preservation Commission. Once again, tonight's meeting is being conducted remotely in accordance with state statutes. I've made a determination that it was not practical nor prudent to schedule an in-person meeting of the commission in the midst of the pandemic. I realize that these remote meetings can be cumbersome, so we ask that you bear with us as we work through it. Each petitioner will have the opportunity to make a presentation to the commission and the presentation will be visible on the screen to all viewers, members of the public who wish to speak during the public comment. Portion of the meeting can do so by calling this number eight four seven eight one zero three six four three. And that number will be repeated throughout the meeting. This commission was formed in nineteen ninety eight to provide a more rigorous, open and principally driven process to guide and protect the development and redevelopment of historically significant properties and open spaces throughout lake forest properties located within a local historic district and properties that are designated as local landmarks while under the purview of this commission. And the commission is bound to evaluate each petition against 17 standards that are outlined in the Lake Forest Code of Ordinances.
The Historic Preservation Commission, along with city staff this evening, are here to ensure that all interests and concerns of property owners, neighbors, architects, historians and the community at large are heard and considered. City of Lake Forest is committed to conducting open and democratic meetings, and in order to achieve this goal, meeting procedures have been adopted by the commission and are available on the city's website as well as with each meeting agenda.
The ultimate goal of this commission is to work in collaboration with city staff and the entire community to preserve the unique and widely recognized historic nature of Lake Forest. While we consistently strive to move each petition forward as efficiently and expeditiously as possible. That objective will always be balanced against the obligation of each commission member to honor and uphold the traditions, standards and guidelines that have guided this community for many decades, again due to the covid pandemic. This meeting is being conducted remotely and in conformance with the Open Meetings Act. The meeting is available online through the link that's provided on the meeting agenda. Public testimony may be offered once again by calling eight four seven eight one zero three six four three. And members of the public calling in when they do so will be placed on hold until the public testimony portion of the meeting. You'll join a queue and then you'll be asked to participate.
So at this time, we will I will ask that the commission members and the city staff introduce themselves. We'll start with city staff and do our best to work around the Zoome.
Given political sparring, often it. OK.
Hello, Steve, welcome. And Ron, I'm sorry, I think you were talking about Ron Levitsky.
All right. Thank you. And Bruce Greive. All right. We will start the meeting this evening with consideration of the minutes of event September twenty three, twenty twenty meeting of the commission and the minutes of the October ten, twenty twenty commission work session.
I will be accessible as written.
So in other questions or comments from anybody.
None great, do I hear a second? OK. All right, all in favor, I, I.
All right, so moved. Thank you very much.
Next on the List this evening is consideration of a request for approval of a certificate of appropriateness to approve the addition of a proscenium entry, signage and enhancements of the existing patio for a new restaurant. La Colonia is planned and to go into the existing building at six fifty five Forrest Avenue, if I'm pronouncing correctly. Mark Knoller will be making the presentation this evening. And before we begin, I'll ask if there are any complex or expert context.
Right. Hearing none. We welcome the petitioner and look forward to hearing the presentation.
Mark and Craig, if when you're ready, if you could please share your screen and you may begin your presentation, it looks like you're both on mute.
Jerry, did you say boots? I think it is right, and you see my screen. Yes.
Starts right now. You know, no pun intended, I'm not starting a video. Hi, I'm Mark Knauer.
So let's start with first of all, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I'm a thirty five year Lake Forest resident, and I've teamed up with Craig on another small project in Lake Forest called The Deer Path Pathet. I think we did a pretty good job there. At least everyone tells us they like it. So it's a good starting point. So you know who we are.
Mark, do you want to give it a shot and see if you can go to full screen? Unless it's just my screen. There you go. Thank you.
Ok, so the so the operators of Love Colonial and the owners of Market House on the Square have been talking and are looking at reopening with a new restaurant concept like Colonial. Lochlyn has a few restaurants around the country. It is a Vietnamese Asian restaurant with French architecture. As the city of Vietnam has evolved over the years, the French culture and the Vietnamese culture have merged together and today ordinary place. And this concept celebrates that, especially the cuisine. The team is Rick Wall St. And Joe came along with their chef, who is Vietnamese. They have restaurants in downtown Chicago. Many of you have probably been there. Houston, Atlanta. The restaurant in Atlanta is the was voted the most beautiful restaurant in the world. We're going to do a better job here. I just want you to know. So we we we didn't get the top three, so we're going to work even harder this time. The team, as I mentioned, is Knauer and Burgmann. And this is that team and many of you know who we are.
So what's really interesting here is to try to fit that French colonial Vietnamese architecture of Le Colonial into the English revival architecture of Market Square and in particular here, the old police and fire station. So our goal was to be respectful of both architectures and not necessarily have one more dominant than the other. And so what we've tried to do is not in any way infringe on the existing English revival architecture of the police station and then the subsequent additions over the years. But what we're proposing to do are have two small elements here and treat what we're calling a proscenium. And then Tonette toenails to Tindall's in the patio area that Tinnell is just French word for pergola. So you've seen all of that in this presentation, the LA Colonial Brand Identity you can see here, it's steel windows and doors, a canopy over the entrance, the blue LEDs sign that's illuminated and it can be dimmed. The white stucco. In this particular case, it was St. and Houston in Atlanta, Chicago, Naples, where there's also one in Delray Beach that we're working on right now, as well as in Scottsdale. And you can see the architecture is very, very consistent. It's very important to maintain this brand identity. The site you all have, I'm sure at some point in time been there, is Market Square or the south west corner of Market Square, the corner of Southgate Forest. And basically what I'm showing you here is the overall plan. And in blue are the the entrance and the two tunnels, essentially. That's really all that we're doing other than maintaining the building, replacing the awnings and painting, painting the trim and just essentially some repair and maintenance as well as the. Do landscaping and patio finishes.
So let's take a look at what.
The finished product and or potentially would look like here, the proscenium that we're proposing would stand away from the existing building, we're looking at replacing the awnings to the right. We are proposing blue awnings, which is there, which is the colonial brand. And as I go through this, you can see how the two relate to each other. So the proscenium would stand away from the building approximately eight feet, and it would the anything that would tie it together would be fully transparent. And also, at some point in time, we know that the restaurant tendency may not be forever. So we're respectful of that as well. And we have devised a system that this could easily be removed in the future, God forbid.
And these images will show you. We hope.
All of the details, Mark, just for your information, we are at five minutes at the halfway point.
Ok, so here are the dimensions as it relates to it. So we tried to keep it to minimise, but at least create some of French colonial presence at the entrance. As we want to we want to transport that guest to a nother place in time. And here, all of the dimensions as it relates to the term so you can see from Market Square. And with lighting, so the diners, the guests can eat new landscaping, boxwood, hedge and perennials around the.
Patio area, new finish on the patio, and I'm going through this quickly, a water feature. Crushed limestone. New seating, tables, chairs. Linen, blue awnings over the windows, the existing windows to market house and the paint trim new painting.
We tried to keep this as low as possible, keep it with the head of the doors. New stairs and entrance and also an exit leveling the whole area, so there are not two tiers to the patio like there is today and an umbrella over a large table.
The plan inside.
And Jen, I'm keeping this quickly, I'm going through this as fast as I can so everyone can get a quick glimpse of what a luck colonial looks like if you've never been there. This happens to be the one in Chicago with the dining room porch area, a service bar, main bar and lounge and private dining rooms. Essentially, this is the brand and trade dress that would be implemented in the interior of the existing market house space. And I am escaping now. So you can and I'll start sharing. And if anyone has any questions, I can go back and.
Answer them, appreciate you sticking with the schedule as well, in part, we have a full agenda this evening.
So I asked you and really keep an eye on the clock. So thank you. And we'll have a chance for questions momentarily. So Jen or Kathy, I'll turn it over to you for your your report and then we'll go from there.
Thank you, Chairman Greive. This is an opportunity to carry on the tradition of adaptive adaptively, reusing the structure. The structure has been a restaurant for a number of years.
Importantly, the changes that are proposed here do not impact the historic material on the building. As Mr. Miller said. What is proposed here? We hope it is not removed, but but it certainly could be removed. Restoring the building to its original form.
The proscenium entry, as he said, steps away from the building is transparent, does not do damage to the materials. We've already had a discussion about how the of the entry element would be connected to the building through the mortar, preserving the integrity of the bricks. The signage proposed is certainly different than what we've seen in Lake Forest, but it is understated. We do have a condition recommending that after installation that the staff review the intensity. The LED lighting in the signage is dimmable, so that can be adjusted. The signage would be turned off after business hours. Certainly Forest Avenue is not a high trafficked street. So after hours, really not a need to leave that on. The awnings are proposed. A single awning is proposed to replace the two awnings that currently exist on the southern part of the west facing facade. Again, the blue is different from the green awnings in Market Square. This building steps away a bit from Market Square certainly is connected. Certainly form the corner. There are instances of the Historic Preservation Commission approving. Awnings that have been other than green. This building is distinct, this use will be distinct. This restaurant carries with it a very unique brand.
So we do believe that in this case, the distinct awnings are appropriate. The changes proposed to the patio are certainly an upgrade.
Again, all removable, but really enhancing through landscaping, through some hardscape elements, through the tunnels, really enhancing and creating a very unique and inviting corner to market square. There is some painting proposed on the building, a bit of a change in color overall. This project is a very exciting project and one that really does exactly what the city continues to hear, continues to build the vitality of market square, respond to the interests of many of our new home buyers, response to the increased density that is occurring around the central business district, creating a very walkable downtown. You do have a recommendation in the staff report in support of approval of this petition. And I would be happy to answer any questions for you, Kathy.
Thank you very much. And I will go to the commission. And just to be here, strictly to our protocol, I'll ask that at this juncture, only talk about questions for clarification. We'll have a chance to have to go through comments and reviews and and discussion momentarily. But right now, 20 questions for clarification. So with that, we'll just start with Commissioner Gale. Any questions?
Kevin, I'm sorry. I'm still seeing the screen. I'm still seeing this during our screenings. Are we just not sharing so we can see one another?
It's great. Thank you.
I wanted everyone to see it. That was wonderful. Thank you. All right, Commissioner.
Gail, are you now or has several times repeated the notion that this is the new colonial brand? Was there any discussion of adjusting that to make the brand of Lake Forest?
Absolutely. That's why we are fully respecting the English revival architecture and the design within the that otherwise used within the community, understand that. My responsibility, though, is also to try to create a successful restaurant that merges that brand within the Lake Forest community so that both can work together. And I believe that we've done that very, very well with complete respect for both.
Was there any consideration of adopting the green that we use for awnings, which is not that different from blue?
Well, they are absolutely different colors and the colonial brand is blue and. Part of what we're trying to achieve here is a successful restaurant and work within the fabric of the community. So, yeah, we we did consider green and it is not it is while it may be the lake, forest and brand is probably not a good word for a community, but it is for a business. So and I and I in my opinion, I believe that the blue or.
Well, within the community.
That's all for now. Thank you very much, Commissioner Levitsky, any questions?
Thanks to Mr. Dale already asked a question about the design, which I suppose will get to discussion later in the package.
It was mentioned that the president does not in any way impede the public way.
And I just want to confirm that, that I mean, what will it be possible that people be waiting outside the door or is there plenty of room? So that walkway will always be cleared for thinking of seniors, elderly people walking by.
Yet there is plenty of room, we are also within the property line and I could pull up the plan again, if that's OK.
Yeah, and this is dimensioned so that we're probably within the property line, I'm guessing seven feet and the sidewalk that's in front has the valet drop off as well as a very large or very wide sidewalk. I think it's in excess of six feet.
Thank you. And then my last question, I'm trying to to grasp the nature of the proscenium in the sense that in the packet in some in some parts of the packet, it discusses the proscenium setting itself apart from the building. And I'm quoting that. And that design is unique. The entry is unique. So you get a sense of separateness, uniqueness. But then there are other terminology saying that it blends and is compatible with the building.
So could you explain how compatible, how unique the different is?
At the same, what what seems to be more likely?
So we're we're utilizing similar materials that are part of the building, certainly the stucco and the limestone cap, but the detailing of it beyond materials is to separate it. So while we're we're trying to. Make it compatible.
We are also trying to create a separation between the English revival architecture and the French colonial architecture.
Does that make sense to you? I want to get between the two and trying to be respectful of both.
Mark, if I could interject that, I think there is something that's very pleasing about. Separating the dissenting from the west side of the building by that connection, and right now it's very dark and one can't even see the the side of the building where the doors are, the way Martin House is, awnings are set right now. So the idea of having the facade of the building basically being placed at the entrance was almost a green house, really helps separate the the colonial wall that's required for the proscenium and to support the canopy and the separation. So you see how that the whole market house thing, it's almost it's sad when you walk in there. It's dark and it's it's overpowering the structure. Yes. The proscenium is is tall and it's a change. But having that glass link between the present and the whole building will actually out of the building more than the way it's been in the past.
Thank you very much. Commissioner, contain any questions.
Yes, thank you, Chairman. A couple of things, the the wood tunnels are noted as wood. Are are they what's what type of what is it, cedar?
I'm not what is what ceder, I'm sorry, the canals of the tunnels are a combination of steel posts and the the pergola structure on the top, the beams and Pearlman's wood would probably be ceder and painted wanted black to match. The trim is stained black. Yes.
And then second question I had was just related to some of the landscaping which we didn't cover. But are there any large specimens that are being removed throughout the the circulation of this property?
Well, I think that the key main plants that everybody questions are the big elephant in the backyard and then around the corner and we actually designed for Carly Lescott for America and new carrots, and they were talking about the health of that tree. So I know the house very well. And it's it's it's tied together with cables and there's some cement in it. And it's been treated for Dutch disease. And this entire thing, it's an old tree. We all would love to keep it going in the footprint of the patio. It's not.
Affecting the root zone any differently than what the existing patio is now, so those two large trees you see in this photograph are the two trees that we're planning on keeping both of those things, that tree on the corner of forest and the let's just say the northwest corner of the property that sheared. I think it's the Japanese tree on the corner that would come down. There's there's a tree on that corner just to have a little bit more vegetation on the on the west side of the building in a fresher way than what's there now. Those are really the big elements that are on the property.
Thank you. And then the last question I have with. The patio area being resurfaced.
Will any of the accessibility challenges be addressed with that as well? I do believe for accessibility someone has to go through the restaurant to access the. The patio.
That's the intent today as well, I'm pulling this up, try to pull this up. Yeah, that everyone accesses the restaurant or accesses the patio through the restaurant and the host will see you today, there's a ramp out of this door and we're looking at regrading this so that it is all one level. There is no proposed ramp from the outside into the patio area. It's everything is through the restaurant. And the operator wants to maintain control over the the patio. This stair is essentially an exit stair.
So the finished floor elevation for the restaurant will now be will be leveled with the patio. That's correct.
So there needs to be and right now there's a bit of a retaining wall around here that is railroad ties, we're proposing to get rid of the railroad ties and use a land in stone retaining wall.
Ok, thank you. Know the questions, commissioner spirit questions.
Sir, I'm sorry, could I just see the commission? I appreciate the screen share, I just I would love to see my fellow peers. Thank you very much.
So, again, I don't know if this is a question for staff or if this is a question for the petitioners, but would someone give us an example of where a lead light is being used in the stock market square?
Mr. Sperry, I can't give you an exact example, but I can tell you that LED lights are used more and more and more frequently, so I am certain they are used somewhere.
I don't know if they were used at all in the deer pantheon, but we certainly could get back to you. LED lighting is is something we're seeing more and more of now.
I don't I don't think there is any is my point. I thought perhaps I was incorrect.
And fellow commissioners, please feel free to step in and illuminate me, no pun intended, if indeed I am not speaking correctly. But I don't believe we've ever seen anything.
That's a bright blue neon sign. So that's my first concern. My second concern is, is the coloring. I understand this is a brand and I appreciate it.
And by the way, I hear wonderful things about this restaurant.
That being said, we just moved with being called the bankability immediately north of this location and knowing the 17 standards for historic preservation. Baker's colors are blue and we made sure that we adhered to that classic lake forest market, square green in every detail in our awnings, right down to the font that we used because everything was to code. And I'm a little concerned here, whether it's the the proscenium, which is a whole nother front facade that's frankly incongruous with the existing structure, whether it's the proscenium, whether it's the lighting, whether it's the blue awnings, that we're really deviating from that. So my question is, what other ways can we select this such that we can have a win win situation, had a wonderful first class restaurant, but really honor what's there as as my friend did when we moved in five weeks ago. And if the petitioner would like to address that, I would appreciate it.
I your microphone is a bit muffled, but as I understand it, your question to me, is there another solution?
To the design, to putting the two brands together, and I'm using Commissioner Gael's term for Lake Forest, but the brand of Lake Forest and the brand of of of low colonial, is that what you're asking me?
So there were three elements that I brought it.
Number one was the fact that by putting on that proscenium, you're basically introducing a brand new front facade to an existing iconic historic structure. Right. Our firehouse.
So that's number one. And you're doing elements that are not compatible with the elements or you're but you're not asking me a question.
You're giving me your opinion. So I'm sorry. I'm not.
And I really hard to understand what you're saying. I apologize.
Can I ask my fellow commissioners, I hear and you are breaking up a little bit, but maybe I can speak to some of that. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Certainly what is being proposed is different. But again, many of the reasons that we've already spoken about am I echoing to.
Yeah, it's bad. Not as bad.
Kim, can you work on our sound quality?
And I would compare this to some of the work done for dear Pappin. Keep in mind that the deer path in the entrance to the bar is different. The Historic Preservation Commission approved a unique entrance on the east side of the deer path in along with a very different patio. That area before was very different than what exists today. And yet the the compatibility really comes through that work being done at a very high quality, high quality materials. I think historically in Lake Forest, we have not prevented change, but have really looked to uses and adaptive reuse of buildings in ways that do not impact the historic integrity. We've already heard that everything proposed here can be removed. And I will also say that throughout the discussions to date and at some point, there were more extensive changes proposed. And what we have seen this petitioner do is really scaled back their their interest in really making sure that they can be successful at this site and doing it in a way that that is certainly different than what we've seen in Lake Forest.
So a question here, because I think we're we're debating here. We're not much to the and I want to talk about the existant structure.
So maybe the petitioner could share with us why the need is for the proscenium. Can you help us understand why that what that facade needs to be put on the structure? And that would be helpful.
Then there we go. First of all, we're not putting anything on the existing structure, we're building a proscenium in front of the existing structure to be completely respectful of the existing architecture. And in no way we change it.
That's no way to look.
I think it does it does not change the look of the existing building at all. What it does is it separates.
And the reason that we're doing it is that it's very important for the operator.
The restaurant tour to take that client and transport them to another place and time to create the best possible dining experience, the key to their success everywhere that they've been is that when you walk in the front door, you have left where you are today.
You've left all of everything else behind, and you're walking in and you're transported to their environment. And it's been a very successful.
Transformation for them.
Ok, and colors the blue, because, as you can, Commissioner Gale, as mentioned, I'm sure you're going to hear this echo throughout, I think surely respect the existing color palette.
I can start my square pretty well aware of how I've looked at Lake Forest.
Thirty five years, and I think it's about time.
Time for a change from all green awnings everywhere.
To having some create a different fabric within the community. So that's, by the way, that's my opinion, so you can have your opinion and there are certainly.
Green is not right and blue is not wrong.
So I think at this pretty clear that my understanding is we have some historic standards, but we're not certain suggestions, they're not 17 historic recommendations, either they're standards or they're revised at any time. So, again, I don't want to take too much airtime here. I'm going to defer now to the rest of the commission. But I have several concerns with this proposal as it's as it's being represented.
I did you ask a question?
I'm not sure I didn't hear no, I just said this is. Commissioner, the chairman, GREAVE, just asking Commissioner Gibson to speak with any questions.
Thank you. Of course, this question is for Craig. You know, we have those two trees and the patio with the resurfacing. Could I just clarify would you clarify it that they will not be hurt any more than they would be today? I know that they're old. I know that they're probably hanging in there with any construction of the surface or anything hurt them at all.
New. You're on mute. You're going to be a.
And then they muted us all sorry for any change to an old tree is potential damage to that tree. The reason the market house did not adjust their tariffs was because they couldn't afford the repair. OK. There is no rule that a patio in a public space can't be replaced, resurfaced or whatever. And what I'm saying is this group is very responsive to all of the care that it would take to get that tree to those trees. The best shot. OK, you know, we certainly will get an arborist report on. What the hell out of the trees are? And we would have an arborist do any type of protection, pruning, super thriving, the existing root structure, all that kind of thing, preconstruction, because that's why I'm part of the team, is to hug whatever is alive there. And but I can't I can't guarantee that that plant wouldn't be. Stressed and we won't know for probably four or five years old, trees take a long time to show signs of stress and by then it could be that that gets it. You know what I mean? So, I mean, obviously, younger trees, like younger humans, seem to be resilient and things like that.
So I would like to point out that the planted area that we're proposing is larger than the planted area is today. There's much more surface for right and everything. Right. So and the the screenings that we're proposing, the lines to the screenings are and are not an impervious they will allow water to drain through to the existing root structure. So every selection that we've made in terms of design have been to with to be as thoughtful as possible towards the saving those trees.
Is just very fine.
We're actually using nine nine limestone screening now, not limestones screening.
Ok, that's it. Thank you. See, that's why we have an expert.
Of course, we back the way back to the branding, in my opinion.
My equably now.
No, OK, going back to the branding of your of the restaurant and by the way, welcome to Lake Forest. We're so excited this whole town is going crazy in terms of having you come in. OK, and thank you for getting late Colonial in here.
You mentioned, and I'm kind of quoting you on this, it wasn't just being at the front proscenium, but once you walk into the front door, in other words, that front door you are, you are experiencing their environment.
And from the look of the beautiful rooms that you showed us of the Chicago location, and I am assuming some of these other locations, I'm sure once you get into that restaurant, it's going to be dynamite.
Is it that important to have a modern structure, a proscenium? And I come from the theater. OK, so it basically is it that important to have that proscenium with glass on the side?
Is there a way and I went back to Paul Bergman's book today on page forty forty seven, where he talks about the English Village and Stanley Anderson designed, even though our notes, our notes don't say that, but that? S end. He designed that part, it says for us. But it was Anderson that really redid it and connected everything.
Is it important enough to have it as a modern structure or could it be more of a tutor type of structure or a Mediterranean structure that is not connected to the building, as you said, but as an entrance in? Would there be another way to do that? So it really connects with our brand.
All right, so I'm going to share my screen, if I may, again, and I apologize to those who preferred that I don't serve the.
We are trying to recreate the experience that the guest has in every other colonial restaurant walking into the main entrance, so all of them are slightly different because they're all different buildings and some are existing. Some are new. So but what we've what the the the key components are the canopy, the signage, the lighting, the doors and the neutral background for that that we're proposing is the stuccoed proscenium. So the the more we change that from the neutral background, sort of the the neutral white entrance, the less impactful. Those components that I just mentioned prior to that are so.
Was to do the same here, maintain that very neutral, arch the proscenium and apply to that these components.
So you go back to not screaming, OK, you can dispense with the screen. OK, so the second question is, does it have to be that high?
That is really I can't remember the dimensions on the thing, but that's a pretty high proscenium. That's a pretty imposing proscenium.
It's 13 feet across.
I mean, it's quite a bit smaller than the building and not as high as the roofline. I think it needs to be in proportion to the entrance with the canopy, the signage, the lighting and all of those. I think the proportion is is is right on. I mean, again, we can all have different opinions, but I think it's then let me move on.
I want to talk about ask a question, some questions in relation to. I know I'm explaining again.
In terms of the difference between a neon light and a fluorescent leidy's. They both are very intense, the color rendering is supposedly soft to very white bright, often they're in a range of thirty three thousand or so. I mean, they're the ranges are really high, bright, white. How are you what what are you planning on? And rather than just demain, what is the rendering that you have on that you're thinking about on this light that's really the fluorescent led.
Have you thought that through obviously the plan, so we we've used this elsewhere. Years ago it used to be neon. Neon is not very controllable, doesn't last as long today with light emitting diodes led, which is not fluorescent. This is quite a bit different. It is. It is LEDs that we can control the color temperature as well as the the output very, very easily, if at any. If people look at this and go, it's too bright that it's so easily changeable with the controller, that also controls the color of that. So there is a mix and I sit here today, I cannot tell you the exact color temperature of of of what it is in order to get that blue that we've used in the past. But it is very, very easily dimmable.
Ok, how does that relate to our brand of our city?
I don't have to.
I think it relates to. Relates to here. Here's how it relates to the. If you want a restaurant like LA Colonial, then part of their brand that works within the fabric of your community. Is as a sign and is this entrance sign so that that certainly your decision made OK? I believe it does. I'll go there.
And I had a little I'm a little wet for the lighting in general.
I'm sorry if I'm interrupting your thought process.
I was really startled when Lululemon interior lights went on Market Square on a cloudy day. It's as if there's something inside illuminating this intense light, particularly when it gets dark early in the wintertime. I got used to it.
And I'm really happy that the brand of Lululemon is on Market Square, just like, you know, the way we are, all the things like that. Yeah. And I feel like we have to give them a chance to then tone down what they did. They they toned down those lights and it's much less abrasive. But change is just that.
Well, wherever we happen to be an historic district. I know.
I know. I'm trying to we're trying to be a representative. You know, we have the prettiest downtown in any North Shore suburb. Right. Mark and I are completely trying to keep up. Well, that the idea of the idea of.
Potentially losing such a good tenant to Market Square when we're having trouble keeping tenants in Market Square because of how expensive it is.
We need to think about what we can do when these things are temporary, if, well, if it to the colonial leaves, once it's been there, while those lights go away, the same goes away. It was just part of doing business with Colonial and Margaret Square.
I agree. I am a complete hugger of historic architecture and that I feel like there has to be some flexibility in our thinking or we're going to have a lot more empty stores.
Well, you know, and I think you Lululemon lights are inside, too. That's the other thing. I even thought maybe asking you a question about putting the blue light of colonial inside so that we still come in. People are experiencing that that wonderful environment inside. It's still doesn't. It still is not flashing the colonial blue outside that that was the other question I was going to ask. Steve took over. Commissioner Lamontagne took over my Ayda Ramp question. And since there are stairs there and I'm just asking this, it's an exit point for the restaurant, the guests, should there be a ramp there or somewhere from that tarah, from that patio, maybe even on to backplane?
Yes, there can be.
Ok, I mean, I just I in Europe to bank lane to to the bank, late entrance to the building. Yeah, yeah, there can be a ramp there. I mean, I'm just and I actually I think it's and Commissioner Commentated brought it up and I've been sitting here thinking about it and I'm glad you brought it's actually a really good idea of it.
I'm speaking from someone whose mother well, I was here when I became an architect. They would have designed the ramp to the entrance of the whole chapel.
We were this is when I was just on the Awards Committee for Preservation Foundation. And I said, David, why did you put it right there, front center? And he said, we didn't want to diminish what people really needed. And so he built a sensitive ramp into that into the whole chapel.
And I'm thinking with the age group of our restauranteurs and of our population and or whatever, you know, people who have broken legs or whatever it is. Is this something that you might consider?
You're on mute. Yes, I I think we have so I think it's a great suggestion and I think we should we should do it when we rebuild the patio. It's going to wrap it. Yeah.
Last I think last question.
I went and looked at the I sat in front of Market House on Sunday, Saturday or Sunday and just looked up and down all the way to Midwest Bank all the way, all the way around, looked at Venz rails, woodwork, awnings and so forth.
Blue happens to be my favorite color, even though I'm wearing green tonight. But I love blue to death.
But I counted 13 places with green and green is even in our name forest. And I'm looking at that and also remembering and I had written an article about our color palette of the market square at one point for Preservation Foundation and Howard Dean Shaw selected, I think it was Essex Green for the best for the market square. And since then it changed to a RPM's color that Shirley Paddock knows. And I can't remember what the number is. But since everything is that and I know part of the branding of the Colonial would like is the blue, but would you be willing to go back to your owners and adjust that to a dark green with white lettering?
Oh, I have. OK.
Ok, their answer is that the blue awning is their brand, that that they absolutely will. We're talking about an awning in the end and they completely respect that.
The other awnings are green in Market Square, but they're honest.
What about napkins and blue cushions and blue tablecloths or whatever outside? I mean, giving that blue and blue and green are my two favorite colors together. There you go. Basically working around the blue in other ways.
How about green cushions?
How about that one? You know, we're we're actually showing green cushions in our rendering. I don't want to go again. I'll get everyone up. But I have a question for the staff also.
And this may incorporate marks that may be helpful here. Kathy, can you give us justification why the lettering is now nine inches rather than five inches that we normally have?
On and on the awning specifically, right?
We haven't discussed that we again, I think it's a matter of proportions. And Mark, I don't know if you've looked at is the balance longer that warrants the nine inches?
I think that's something we can certainly talk about.
Yeah, and it's got to the valances are 12 inches and those loose balances so that they blow in the breeze and the nine inch proportion seem to work or the nine inches within the 12 inches seem to work well to us. You know, could it be less sure?
Well, I think we have a guideline and I'm mentioning that, OK, I think that's it for now.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
And Commissioner Pettit, any questions? Clarifications.
No more statement, I want to reiterate the desire for any access to the patio. I think it's it's really, really important that we.
Make things as easy for people to get to as possible, and it's not always easy to maneuver through a restaurant in a wheelchair.
I wanted to thank you for not writing out that colonial on the earnings.
I appreciate the. Understated nature of the L.C and on the other question. Any questions for clarification on.
On this in the Scotsdale.
Restaurant, the signage was placed before and off to the side of the entrance and wondered if that was explored at all and maybe what you thought about that.
Yes, so in on the Scotsdale one, the sign is 20 feet long and relates to the traffic pattern at the intersection to the right, I'm not sure that that's a place we really would like to go here. The we thought it redundant to have the large sign and then a sign on the canopy.
So the combination of the two in that particular location seemed inappropriate to us. And we went back to the standard or and here we're proposing to go back to the standard that we've used everywhere else in Chicago, Atlanta and Naples, Delray, so on and so forth.
So which is a much smaller sign. That we're proposing than we were then more than in Scottsdale.
All right, so many questions have been asked, I don't have any ones to add, so at this point we will wait and see if there are any folks that are viewing want to call in.
Chairman Graves, we don't have any callers, let me that number is on the screen.
I'll also read it eight four seven eight one zero. Thirty six, forty three. We do not have any comments or questions in the Q&A log. And no callers.
So we wait one minute or just proceed.
Sure, we could give it a few seconds here. Sounds good.
Chairman Gref, no collars and no comments, just as you said, just a moment, yeah.
Chairman Greive, I directed.
I do have a caller on the line from.
Pauline, please go ahead. OK.
She needs to mute her computer.
If you also have your computer on polling.
All right. Is that better?
We're going to try again. More go ahead. That sounds great. Thank you.
First of all, I'm really excited about this restaurant. I welcome you very much into the community.
However, I have some reservations about the design that's been presented. It's beautiful. So it's very seductive. The blue is a very attractive. But all of this steps away from our guidelines and our standards. And that concerns me.
We've always and preservation have been concerned about destruction in an established neighborhood and that it should be compatible.
And this colonial, as attractive as it is, really is not, in my mind, compatible with either Market Square or the surrounding architecture.
So. And now those are my comments.
Thank you, Pauline.
Mr. Chairman, we do also have a comment.
And the question is.
Does look colonial have restaurants and other historic districts at any of their other locations, Mr. Now where I don't know whether you know the answer to that or not.
Yeah, sort of racking my brain here, New York, downtown is probably not a historic building.
I don't believe so and and I would just add if if this restaurant isn't present in other historic districts, then that would be an important first for tourists and again, a way to create a mess and draw people in to square.
Is that it for any other?
Chairman, grab hold on one moment, it appears we do have another comment. OK.
Kathy, are you referring to the Q&A comment that we can see by clicking on our Q&A tab at the base of our screen from Romolo?
We do have another comment. And let me read that into the record. This is from Romello. Pat, as was the earlier question about the historic district, in twenty thirteen, she photographed all the shops and they all had turquoise trim. When the new market square owners came, they worked with the Historic Preservation Commission and Dark Green came back, threw out, and that is the comment.
I don't see any other comments or other colors, Chairman.
I think I can respond to that because that's either the PM's color or the color. I they that's that was the bridge. I mean, surely we need to really panic here because she can explain that whole thing, so. All right, they're both of the green shades, Chairman.
Back to you. We don't have any Colusa comments.
Thanks very much. So it does come back to all of us. And this is our chance for comments and discussion. And in this one in particular, I would encourage everybody to add the discussion piece to it. So as we go around, feel free to share any any thoughts you have beyond how you're feeling about this particular petition. But but how it fits in the context of some of the questions that have been brought up as it relates to other structures and and properties and in Market Square.
So with that, Steve, you want to start us off with any comments or discussions for all of us to weigh in on?
Sure, I have one last question just before I throw comments out that the the Birdcage lanterns are illuminated as well, and I'm assuming that those are also tunable LEDs that would be incorporated.
Well, this this is an interesting one, right, and I think about our responsibility on the commission and to the standards, and I think a lot of this comes down to interpretation, in my view, simply within my view. And the one really that stands out that I keep coming back to is around compatibility. And and I do think. Right, because within within those standards, there's nothing that I can read that says Green as a standard within the historic district. And if that's something, quite frankly, that we believe as a city and as a commission, then quite frankly, then maybe we need to update our standards. Otherwise, it's difficult to hold. I think some of these petitioners accountable to that.
And while I think we all would have loved to have had a world class restaurant which happens to have and a green brand show up within Lake Forest, I think we should be happy at the fact that at least blue and green sit next to each other on the color wheel and that we don't have a brand that's showing up with purple or red who feels very, very strongly that that's where they need to go. So I'm a bit, quite frankly, in Mr. nowas camp that we have to be open to be thinking about these things in these times. And something that Cathy said at her opening remarks, which was her view that this is another example of what we would consider to be adaptive reuse of a facility that has a long standing history within our community. But moving to a world class brand, which is exactly what we're trying to preserve and attract for this community. And I think the fact that the petitioners have. Feel very, very strongly about their brand and represent those those examples to us. They've also, I think, respectfully looked at this existing facility and have made a proposal that, quite frankly, any of that existing historic structure would have 18 bolts penetrated within that existing facility with a plan to replenish that should they leave six months from now, six years or hopefully 60 years from now. So I'm quite frankly, supportive of this proposal as it comes in. I do feel very strongly about the ABA access to the patio. So glad to hear that the petitioner is willing to consider that and bring that back to the owners. And that's that's really that's that's all from my comments at this point.
Very helpful. Thank you very much, Commissioner PAETEC.
Anything add for discussion of your comments now, just that I think Commissioner Lamontagne said it beautifully and expressed all my same feelings so appreciate.
Thanks very much, Commissioner Gibson.
This has been quite difficult. The compatability portion of our standards is obvious is the obvious one, and actually I don't know whether all of you recall when Target came in to Market Square. I know it was on the square, but they wanted, I believe, a red awning and they didn't get it. They got the red door. OK, I believe you mean Talbert's. I'm sorry. What did I say? Delbert's. That target started with a T anyway. Talbert's came in the compatability. If if the owners would consider three things somehow not having the blue light, the leidy's or move it smaller, whatever, inside the experience going into the restaurant is once somebody, then they're going to experience it. They're going to have the food, they're going to have the whole the whole thing. It's going to be wonderful. The outside is still to me, market square. Even on Forrest Avenue, you have the the city hall right. Right up the street. You have other buildings on the north end. So I really think that the blue light is wrong. I think that the findings are wrong. They they need to be green. They need to be whatever Shaw wanted at the time. They needed to be compatible in that way. The proscenium, I could probably get around because I know Craig Bergman is going to design something in front and define, although to tell you the truth, I'm probably the only one here who thinks this. But I always thought that the market house and also the south gate, when you walked into that canopy, which was big, it was like an inglenook.
There were people sitting there before they even went into the vestibule. They were sitting there after they came out and waited for cars. So to me, it was a it was a Soul Lake forest of casual in going into something that then once they got in, of course, it wouldn't be as grand as if they went into a lot of colonial, but it was a very compatible area of an inglenook then. That's how I read it. And certainly, you know, I it's it wasn't modern. It wasn't wasn't gorgeous. It may have hit the the front door, but it was very much like forest. So I, I think the Pacific is kind of bulky. I think it's very modern. I understand it's not connected to the to the police station, to the actual building or maybe eighteen bolts or whatever. But I'm, I'm very concerned about that. I think that the patio will be beautiful. I don't I think the tunnel is the two tunnels sound great. I think even the little Japanese lanterns. That's fine. Yes. They can be led, they're within they probably won't be as bright as they look as if they were colored in some form. But they're not as they're not as sharply bright as a blue light looking like a neon portion is going to be hanging off on Forest Avenue. So I really want the restaurant here. I do not want those that don't want the awnings or the or the blue lights. Other than that, I'm fine with it. But those two, I think we need to discuss. Thank you.
Thanks very much, Commissioner Sperry Echo, Commissioner Gibson Sediments.
I think we can have it all. I think we can have it both. I think we can have a wonderful first class restaurant, which nobody on the commission is arguing with, is going to be a welcome division to our community.
And I also think we can have some CLECs, hopefully from the petitioner that will allow us to address these points that continue to come up, that the color palette, which is in opposition to the surrounding structures, the neon signage, which is going nowhere else in the square, and of course, the facade, the the proscenium, which is I was I was looking at your brand and our expecting to see high, so.
Surely there is a way for us to come together and look at another option or options that would enable us to make this Win-Win, not only for the communities as far as eatery is concerned, but from the aesthetic, then I don't want to belabor the point, but we are your neighbors immediately to North Coldwell Banker Reality, a global company which is blue.
We are Coldwell Banker Blue. And my company worked hand in hand with the city to adhere to the color standards, the font right down to the size to ensure that we were in full compliance with iconic and historic market square.
And I would ask you as our newest tenant and hopefully one of our brightest stars to do the same.
Thank you, Commissioner Levitsky A..
Earlier, the first round, Commissioner Spiri asked Power, you know, the presidium change, look at the building and he replied, No. And she said, yes, it does, and kind of went back and forth. And I can understand the disagreement. And I would have to agree with Commissioner Spiri that it looks different. Yes, you could take it away. You could rule. But I'm not saying it's that beautiful, but it looks different. And then when you have the green awnings and then when you have the blue light, it looks it looks very different. And I guess I worry it's always a slippery slope that, you know, this is OK and maybe we'll wind up having to accede. But if this is OK, then if a candy shop comes in and says, well, you know, we we have bubble gum colored awnings and that's what we would like to do. And how do you say no then? So then how consistent are you throughout the area? So I want the restaurant, I think would be wonderful. I share concerns that Commissioner Spearin Gibson here.
Thank you. Thanks very much. Let's see. Commissioner Gail.
Well, I would like to join all my fellow commissioners in saying that we think that the restaurant coming to Lake Forest is a wonderful idea, that we think that much of the not much much of the design is very appealing, particularly the patio, the canals, all that. I think that that's beautiful. I'd love to be able to spend an evening there. I know.
But I do think that we have the sense that that the company is not open to talking to us.
And that may be what has led us to be pushing on you, that you the the peace that that your your presentation to us emphasize is this is a brand and that it is unchangeable and that it's really necessary to look colonial to to have this and stresses it again and again, almost perhaps as if you yourself were aware that it was not.
It does not that that it did not seem to take into account any of the the unique qualities of like force that we like to think of them as unique. The interesting thing is that in your own presentation, there appears to be evidence that there is flexibility. Look, Colonial's notion I'm thinking of the very first pictures where you say architectural styles working together. It's essentially your second page, the two examples from outside of Lake Forest. I think that you use both show variability on the very things that you're saying are are non-negotiable.
And I don't know that it's not that we want to to design it and change everything, but I think we do have honestly, on an honest basis, we have some reservations about some of the characteristics of the design.
When I point out these two, one of them, I don't know where they are, but one of them shows awnings that are that look either grey or very navy, blue, grey, blue or something. That's the top one. And then the next one, which shows the colonial sign not over the entrance way, but to the side.
So there is flexibility, it looks like. I think we think of this building as one of our.
Special pieces in our historic area designed by architects who are had much to do with the early shaping of the look of Lake Forest, and it's actually quite a beautiful building and.
The I am my own belief is with Commissioner Spearin and I think some of the others that the proscenium pulled away from the building as it is, is clearly a separate piece. It doesn't look like the building doesn't refer to the building.
I think that you have a tremendous challenge, although you've shown your great talents and working on the Dare path where you were immensely successful.
And we welcome your coming back and doing this. But is there not some way that we can. Talk and I guess you've been talking also to staff, and so for us, we come in late, but you've been talking to staff, but.
I think that there is genuine sympathy and support for you in the restaurant that you are designing for you to as a team, it's good to have both of you a man of the locality. But we would we would love to discuss more.
I think the entrance and maybe the the blue or the green, I it's it's a separate thing, but it's it's part of this whole notion that there are there is not that there's no negotiable, no negotiating. And I think that that's what has led.
Perhaps some of us maybe need to start out feeling, gee, I wish I want to try to get his attention and see if we can talk about it. So I want you to come. I want to find a way to do it. But it does seem to me that there are problems when we ask others to do things like Coldwell Banker or others, and we have not. We're not if we ask you, is that is that so much of a deal breaker that you can't find a way to persuade your people that it might be in their own interests? To negotiate on this and that we the people of Lake Forest, I'm sure will come in droves to this very wonderful restaurant.
All right, thank you very much. A little different than process, but before I throw out my comments and I'll just put out some discussion points, the petition, or do you want to respond to any of these?
And the one I'd ask specifically is you've spoken very clearly about color and and the branding and so forth.
And I'm very clear on all of those things of the different areas where some commissioners have talked about degrees of flexibility.
Are there any areas where you believe you, where there is some flexibility? I think it would just be and maybe I should have asked this earlier, if you can at least provide some some clarity on where you think there might be some areas to revisit things. Anything would be helpful.
Sure. First of all, flexibility works both ways. And I need everyone to understand that. We're proposing a blue awning and you're and there is and seems to be an inflexibility to accept a blue on it. So with that said, we are willing to be flexible. And someone did point out that we've used different color awnings in the past. The old the original colonial in Chicago, on State Street had gray onyx. And Gray is a color that works with the with that little colonial color palette. And a gray awning would absolutely work. A green awning will not work. So we are willing to be flexible for it.
All right. Thank you, Adam. Oh, sure. Everyone else. Yes. Understood. Understood. So just for everybody else. And I would kind of reveal my direction on this.
And I'll start off by saying that nobody disagrees, that we would love to have your restaurant here.
But I have to be honest and say I don't think that's helpful to the petitioner only because what we're asked to review here isn't whether or not it's a wonderful restaurant and beautiful design and menu and so forth. We're here to talk about the kind of the architectural elements and the design elements that they're asking us to review. So I'm keeping my comments specific to that.
And as I thought about this petition, I tried to think of where there are cases where you have other cultural elements, because that's the big the big brand theme here, Vietnamese. How do you blend Vietnamese in a downtown area that essentially doesn't bring any of those cultural influences in its design palette? They're just not anywhere. So then I think back and I'd say, well, could you say, well, don't make it Vietnamese? Could you kind of make it more European? Because we have European architecture and I know where that that would go. It would be a non-starter. So I try to think of cases where and we're all very aware of other cultural influences that came into this country around the time that that Lake Forest Pickett's architectural theme. And in my years living in Manhattan, the one example that I can think of was Trader Vic's and Trader Vic's. There's the one restaurant, and hopefully I'm remembering this correctly, was in the plaza and they had to figure out a way to bring you into a whole different cultural world in a structure that had nothing to do design wise with the whole feeling of Trader Vic's. And they had tiki huts and all sorts of stuff in the entranceway. And it was a whole different atmosphere. And there it was on a side entrance to the Plaza Hotel. And I can't imagine how I could be transformed into that environment if they told them it had to be the same kind of architectural and entrance way that they had in the formal structure of the plaza.
So that's where I struggle with this one. And I have to say, I, I lean with comments from a few commissioners that lean in the direction of this is evolutionary and it's been put together very thoughtfully. And there are elements of it that fortunately it's not a screaming orange or some other things that I think would be easy to say. That's such a departure. And I use that word of departure because the question is, is this really an evolution or bending of a direction that we've been pushing for market square or is it a breach? And I don't know if it really qualifies as a breach and more of an evolution. All that said, and again, I'm I'm sharing my leaning. Then the question is and I and I'm thinking of Commissioner Sperry's comment, we all know that there have been petitioners who have asked for color schemes and approaches and things, and we've held fairly firmly that I think you're going to have to adapt. So then it gets down to the question that Kathy wants to weigh in on this. And this term comes up a lot in our discussions. Is, does this create a precedent?
And I'm never a big fan of that being an argument that it creates a precedent only because I think that every single petition is always looked at its own singular merits. So when somebody uses that as an argument, I'll say here you did it here. That doesn't resonate with me because every condition is so separate and different. At the same time, if there are some other people, though, who look at this and say, wait a minute, it was so important for us that we wanted Blue as an example or some other color color palette that could be compatible and not be a complete breach of our sense of market square, but more of a nuance, a variation on that theme that we would be willing to revisit. Does this open ourselves up to that? And I'd say it probably does. And so then I have to go down that path further and say, so if those things did come back to me and as Commissioner Lamontagne said, maybe then it would force us to revisit some of these things. Is that such a bad thing?
And then I fall back on.
So does that make us evolutionary or does that just say we're hard and fast to some specific rules? And I would just say I think that allows us to be evolutionary. And maybe there are some cases where we held more firmly and maybe it's important that we revisit some of those things and we may stay where we are or we may decide that that's a fair request.
Bright orange is too much of a breach, but blue is not in the world of color palettes, as we know, there are certain colors that fall within certain groupings and others that fall further from them.
So all that being said, I and I asked the question on flexibility, because I do think there are probably some areas that could be revisited based on these comments. Maybe something could be softened, maybe a massing could be diminished, a small amount, but all within the direction that the petitioner's looking for, but not basically say instead of blue. It needs to be it has to be green instead of a soft blue. And we ask that the LEDs be to enough. So it's very, very soft. So would it look like the neon light certainly would just look like a very soft, almost like an uplifting. We'd say that we're hoping it'll work with us such that it's not too gleaming and doesn't stick out too much. And I think that probably would be an accommodation that we could we could work on. So that's my leaning and everybody else's is weighed in. And it's I can kind of do the, you know, look across the the commissioners and see that there are some some that are less in the fence, some a little on the fence, some not on the fence. So I just share those as those are my thoughts.
And I think we're at a point now, unless anybody has anything else to add, that that I would ask if someone wants to.
Put out emotion and just see where it goes, but understanding that regardless, regardless of the direction, I think we have to make sure that we're very clear with the petitioner what would need to be reviewed to come back such that we would see something that would work for both parties.
Chairman, can I offer just a couple of thoughts that would be great. Thank you.
I do agree that each petition that comes before the commission should be considered on its own merits. And this petition does have some very unique merits. This building stands alone. It is not part of Market Square.
This particular user presents an extraordinary opportunity for the community and and presents a proposal that is completely reversible, yet allows us to step forward and create some real distinction and let people know that Lake Forest is moving forward and that although we're carefully considering this petition, we are open to allowing some flexibility and something that really catches the eye and lets people know that this community, as it always has been, is forward thinking, adaptive reuse, being creative. This is really a hallmark. We all know that Market Square would not have happened if this community stood still. Second, I do hear perhaps some flexibility with respect to the exact color of the awning.
We could certainly work with the petitioner to explore some alternatives. No commitment that there would be a change and perhaps the opportunity to study a little bit more the massing of the presidium and looking at some of the other precedents for the colonial restaurants. So I would just offer those thoughts. Thank you.
Very helpful. Thank you very much.
All right, so with that, hold on, hold on that additional comments this.
Also, what about the light?
What about the can we see maybe maybe we can see the light as a group or two people from the commission can look at it and sample. It doesn't have to be written out, but it could be just the light itself. Could this be something that we observed before we discussed this again? Seriously, I mean, that this is a big step to do this kind of life on a front of a building, even though it's not in Market Square, but it is you know, it is connected to Market Square. We've never had this before.
My inclination is if we and I don't even know if you could do this, if we just as we would with a material sample, put something up against a wall or bring it into the office, that light that sign is not going to read as it would in the installation. So I don't know, Mr. Knauer, if you have anything to offer, but certainly as a condition, what we've heard is that this light is very dimmable and that the tone of the rendering is the rendering.
That is the problem. Can I ask a question?
Yeah, this is the is the lighting that's proposed for this, the same that is on the facility in Chicago, meaning the same light source, the same thickness of the tube. And the same tunable aspect for the levees.
May I respond, yes, please. Yeah, it is it is on the restaurant on Oak Street in Chicago, it's both high on the building and at the entrance, and anyone could go and take a look at it. We could have some of it.
The we can also send you a sample of the color to Cathy's point, though, and you can plug it into the wall. It it really I agree that it needs to be in reference to the rest of it. The color is the color. It is blue.
The brightness is maybe. Maybe.
The issue, so it is a it is a very distinct blue that's not going to change, but the brightness absolutely can change.
So and that's something that we're willing to work with everyone on, willing to be flexible there as well.
And I would make the point that the the brightness of the installation on Oak Street is likely to be very different than what would be here.
So if if you observe that, I think you also need to be careful, but more important, more in context than if you have a lit building, for example.
I'm I'm actually talking about the Genessee theater we had we had antique lights, we had all kinds of lights and we had the color rendering on these lights. The color rendering was so critical because of the softer white. We'll think about it incandescent that we had might have in our homes to the bright lights. I mean, we're all at Home Depot looking for the right kind of light for our homes right now. You put a light bulb is called. Oh, my gosh, way too bright. And it's not the intensity of it. It might be a 15 watt bulb, but it's a it's an LED 15. But it's the color rendering is the it's the coolness of it, the whiteness of it that actually take about think about your headlights. Think about meeting somebody on the road with headlights right now in all different kinds of you almost want to shave your eyes. That's what I'm talking about. It's not that harsh. It's not. It's the harshness of it. The rendering of it.
Yeah. The one the wonderful thing now about the new LEDs, Jan, is that they're completely tunable. And I'm using the word tunable so you can tune it down to twenty seven hundred Kelvin and all the way up to five thousand Kelvin.
Five thousand is like the right and it could be the eighteen twenty seven hundred can be pretty bright, you know. I mean you try to get below that and it's hard.
Oh Chairman, I would, I would ask you this.
I think there are just a number of very significant issues here and deviations from the surrounding structures that I think deserve further consideration, whether whether it's a color palette that that the petitioner can can offer at the next meeting. You know, I was thinking, Mark, the more we thought about this, why not a little green? Why not a color palette that merges and actually complements Savi? The current Hallett's are in and around you, I think is a lovely option as well. And I know you mentioned that. I think we should also be addressing the massing of the the facade, the proscenium, as well as the the LED lighting. You know, I know everyone keeps saying, gosh, we can take this off if and when the colonial leaves us. We're setting a precedent here. And as someone who has been charged to preserve the visual character and integrity of our town, we're at hallowed ground here. Guys, this is Market Square. I would really ask that we be thoughtful and contemplative. And, you know, when in Rome, do as the Romans, you guys are not making this restaurant on the west side where we will be having this conversation. You are coming into the heart of Market Square. And I would ask, as four of my petitioners have, I think, articulated beautifully, that we see some flats, we see some give here so that it's going well for everybody. I just we have as a commission, broken precedent of war. And it's between us what we're dealing with the situation right now where we don't we don't know the structure that was existing. And the proposed structure has been denied by multiple committees and is causing a bit of a firestorm in our community. I just want to ensure that if this is done, it is done right. So everybody is just delighted and I think we can do that.
Well, the only way this can move forward is I can't put up a motion. So somebody has to put up the motion and the commission has to vote.
So that's how this moves forward. So I'm not I'm not in a position to continue or not continue. I'm just a vote.
So if somebody can't, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how this has to move forward one way or the other. Somebody has to put up a motion. Correct.
So does anyone want to put up a motion that we vote on and and just whatever that motion is, it has to be specific to? Whatever direction you want to go, that what needs to be included in that motion.
It's a tough one, anyone?
Jim, well, it if I move to grant a conceptual approval with certain conditions that we discuss at a later time, would that be enough or should I just grant?
So I ask for a continuance of of the motion.
For a next meeting to to cover lighting, proscenium colors, maybe a.d.a something with that, that for discussion.
Kathy, I look to you, but would that work?
Well, it needs to go.
You can either have a motion to continue, right? And then you have to be specific to say if the petitioner is going to with that request to continue. In other words, the petitioner says, do I want to come back or not, but come back and give us your thoughts and suggestions on how you might address the following and be specific about what those elements might be. So there's something that that they can work on and come back and say, this is where we can give and this is where we can't. And this is what we think is a is a good accommodation. The other is, you can say motion to approve, as we've done before, with very specific conditions and things that they need to work on, specifically with city staff, meaning that they just can't march forward and and disagree with things with the city because the conditions are they need to do these various things.
Kathy, is that I won't do that one now that there's too much here that is needs further consideration. Shannon.
May I offer something sure of the ADA ramp the petitioner is absolutely willing to do, it's the right thing to do.
The color of the awnings. Other than the green. And so the two choices are gray or blue are on the table. OK, the InDesign. Is not something that the petitioner is willing to negotiate on, it is it is their brand creating the entrance sequence through a proscenium.
The size of that, whether it is 13 feet high, 12 feet high, anything less than 12 is going to be difficult.
And here, let me see how wide it is I have to look here. Oh, it's on the plan. Give me a second.
I'm looking at time and I consider different materials on the proscenium because, again, at that point, stop start inspection.
Yeah, I think it has to be a neutral material in the white stucco, which is on the building is the appropriate material. So that that's that's not negotiable. What you're how wide is it's 11 six. Why could it come down possibly to ten by 12. Yes. Other than that, the I really think that we'd like to take this to a vote. And if with those three items, the ADA Ram. Blue or gray awnings and reducing the size of the proscenium, we are being flexible here. And so we would we would ask for it to be taken to a vote with those three considerations of our.
Can I ask a question about the audience? Yeah, please. Within the packet that we have, it's a page noted architectural styles working together.
And there's four four photos on there. One is the existing market house canopy, which is essentially a dark teal green, essentially green. But that top photo, which shows the the colonial brand against an awning that looks identical in color to that of the existing market house, is that, in fact, not the navy blue that you're proposing?
I'm sorry, you're on the mark.
The top photo that you're looking at is Houston, and it is navy blue that we are proposing. If it may be in the reproduction, I'm on my screen and if you would like, I can share it, it will show.
It's going to go on forever.
It is. A navy blue on.
In Houston, and I'll show you, here it is again, this is the exact same oops, sorry I went past it. This is the exact same morning that's in the previous photo.
And so on on the blog post.
Which sometimes shows up as a as the brighter blue, a slightly different tone, but it is, in fact, navy blue.
So there it is, it is son barella, navy blue. It's called it's five, four, three, nine. One three seven, so I can send you a sample of that if you'd like.
But they all needed to correct all the warnings are exactly the same color.
And Mark, just to clarify one more time, the color you're proposing is closer.
That's shown on that top image on the page that says architectural styles working together. That is the same color as you're proposing at the Lake Forest location.
So is exactly that color.
It is the blue navy blue guys, by the way, we also do work for Ralph Lauren.
It is exactly the same color that Ralph Lauren uses on all of his stores and all of his buildings.
So the the color is reflected in the carpet, maybe appearing a bit more royal blue than it actually is.
That's that's a function of our reproductions in computers.
I have a question, how do we explain to a business that has just gone in five weeks ago that they had to use green? Yeah, and now we're giving allowances. I don't get this to be clear.
There was never a proposal to use a different color for Coldwell Banker. The prior tenant, Megan Winters, did have awnings of, I believe, a grayish color.
So we stopped sharing screens. I'm sorry.
I just I'd like to see the evicted no share or get back to sharing screens. Right.
I'm still saying the proposal, Mark.
The one thing we also haven't discussed at all time is the color on the building itself, the colors, I mean, it's the existing structure as it looks now, as it remain that way, are there going to be different color palettes that are going to be initiated on the building? Because it looks a little more whitewashed to me and some of the buildings and some of the drawings that were proposed. Again, I think there's a lot of there there that does warrant further consideration. I'd love to get this right. I don't want it to be a building that is in opposition. And are you arguing with the structures on either side? And I think that you're some brings a great point, which is. It is setting a standard for those of us that did adhere to what we thought was the existing historic standard in Market Square and adhered to that despite the fact that we had a brand, a corporate brand that had different colors.
Kathy, any comment on that?
As I said, if I don't know how it gets worked into the record, but I certainly wouldn't have a problem if this if there are some other properties that as a result of this being gray or blue, feel very strongly that they should be able to ask us to revisit some decision. I don't know if I'd have a big problem with that because it made US forces to step back and revisit where we're we feel firmly about certain colors and where we're more flexible, depending on where they are in the downtown area or not.
Just to be clear, that's not where I'm going with this at all.
I'm not arguing or asking to repetition for a different variance in the color. I'm simply stating that we took the position we did in Market Square and adhered to the colors and conformity of Market Square as good corporate tenants because we recognized how special the area was and wanted to keep it.
That that was the point of the illustration.
And I hope I've clarified to be clear, Chairman Greive, where the standards for Market Square, Market Square were recently updated. There was a commitment to green, that is for Market Square. There is no requirement that awnings outside of Market Square be green. Certainly there has been a trend, but there is this this project you are looking at is being very distinct.
It's a unique project in a one of a kind building at a location that actually has some frontage on the market square but has some frontage to the west.
This is the specifics of this particular petition are different than anything else that will come before you. If you choose to do so. You could certainly appoint a subcommittee to deal with some of the issues that were identified. As you noted, you do need a motion on the table, whether it's approval subject to review by a subcommittee of the items identified, whether it's denial or whether it's continuance. You do need a motion on the table to move this forward.
All right, Cathy, just to clarify, I'm sorry, just one question. So what you just stated is, I think an important point and is what you're saying is also true for anything that's proposed along Western so people could choose to propose green or black. Or blue.
Along Western people have proposed along western different colours. Again, the market square area. There are specific guidelines that were actually endorsed and put in place by the property owner with the working with the Historic Preservation Commission. But there is nothing in the code that says awnings in this location or up and down Western Avenue need to be green question.
Then the awnings could be any colour in the in the patio versus a different colour on the street on the west side of the building. I mean, could that be interpreted that way?
This building is not part of Market Square. This building was a city building at one time. OK.
For clarity, may I address Commissioner Sperry's questions about painting the building, because we went through this very, very quickly and I don't. This is also a very important part of what we're doing is sure.
Now I know what I want to be sensitive. I know we have a number of petitioners and we feel really this is what I feel like. Continue is critical. I just do not think we have the time tonight to get all the nuances of this project.
It is so special. It is so special. And I would really like to continue this so we can do so. But you're sharing your screen, so I guess we're going to look at the colors of.
I don't hear any audio, guys.
And there we go. So I'm showing you a photo of the existing buildings, so you have a relationship to the existing colors, to what we're proposing. Today, the doors and the trim of the windows is painted green. Though the split timber framing on the building is sort of it is gray here, it appears to be a yellow gray, but it's a thousand different shades of gray. And the stucco is white. It's just dirty white. What we're proposing to do is paint all the green. Trim on the windows black. The the timber, the split timber framing gray and the stucco white and all those colors are in the packet that we sent.
So I don't want there anyone to have any misunderstanding of what we're proposing. We've tried to be as clear as possible of what we're proposing to do.
And I'll stop sharing them, thanks.
I don't excuse me, I don't have the language, but I would like to make a motion if we could get into a language that we're sorry, everybody, that we approve.
The petition subject to a meeting between the petitioner and a committee of this board to members. Plus, Kathy. Discussing the proscenium, the lighting and the color of the awnings.
We will include that pink color.
Yes, thank you. Whatever else, Jim.
In the paint color, you've got to be specific, guys.
In the review of Ron, in the review of the presidium, could we also could that include the.
The width and the length of the presidium, the mast, as you mentioned, the and yes, proportionally. All right, do we have a second on that motion? I'll second that.
Ok, once we have a second, it goes up for a vote, so, Jen, you want to take us around? Yes.
And again, just to confirm that, that includes the subcommittee.
And how many are on the subcommittee?
Usually, as a rule to board to commissioners, we need to have to think carefully.
And I'm just going to ask staff, is that Cathy, is that normally what a subcommittee is comprised of is just two or four more?
It cannot be more than two. And there are the mayors, the chairman, they promoted you, the chairman after the meeting will determine who should be on that subcommittee.
Ok, thank you for clarifying. It's not really a subcommittee or is it a committee?
Well, they say subject because it's less than the full commission, OK?
And so we have a second. So, Jen, do you want to take us around, please?
Sure. And just to clarify, this is a motion for approval with subcommittee review, along with staff and the chairman. So starting with Commissioner Gibson.
Nay. Commissioner Pettitt.
Commissioner Gail I. Commissioner Sperry nhé. Commissioner Lamontagne.
Sorry to do this to you, Jen, but before I go, can you say again what you just said the motion was to approve with a subcommittee of two members of the commission, along with staff and approval? I think I said that wrong.
So this would be approval or Cathy, did I hear the motion? Right.
A subcommittee is appointed as to so it would be two members appointed by the chairman, along with staff working with the petitioner. So it's two members.
It cannot be more than two members to do outline, though, what what the various points are that need to be covered by the committee.
I just want to make sure that's enumerate.
The subcommittee should review the proscenium, the mass of the proscenium, the materials, the lighting, the color of the awning and color of the paint. Those are the items that I have down from Commissioner Lewinsky's motion.
So are we, in effect, approving, conditioned upon approval of the subcommittee, conditioned upon approval of the subcommittee?
Would it be that they would come back?
The subcommittee would give its opinion in the full board, would vote to vote no on this is going down from the entire committee now to just go with your motion. I want to make sure everybody understands what this doesn't come back to.
Oh, no, I'm sorry. I missed a motion on the table.
So we have to finish this motion. Yeah.
So continuing with Commissioner Lamontagne. Yes, approved. And. Then Chairman Greive. I right.
Because I just don't think that was done fairly. I'm sorry, the the very the person that made the motion didn't understand what he was motioning and thought and thought very clearly with what he just conveyed to the entire commission was determined that it was coming back to the entire commission, our approval.
So I think we need to revisit this. This is a little incongruent in terms of policy and procedure.
Someone could you can help a little bit. You can't change the motion, you just can. We can we can redo the vote.
Does it make sense, Kathy, one can make a motion to reconsider?
Well, it sounds like, Mr. Levitsky, if I'm wrong and Ron, you step in, but I don't think he would have made this motion. He understood it wasn't coming back to the entire commission.
I thought that I thought that it added that at the end, apparently not, which I should have been a continuance.
This needs to be a continuance.
So someone can make a motion to reconsider the motion that was just voted on, that would be the appropriate process.
Ok. All right.
So we need a second to that motion to reconsider. Correct.
And I can't make the motion someone needs to make. I mean, I know that we reconsider the motion.
In order to create another motion after this, OK, this second, the second. All right, Jennifer.
Ok, and this is a motion to continue the petition for partisan reasons that are that this is first a motion and whether you want to reconsider the vote that was just taken, if if the vote is no, then the motion stands as voted on. If the vote is yes, then someone would need to make a new motion to rescind the previous motion and put another motion on the table.
This is so that we can set it up. So we then have it come back to the entire commission rather than just rely on two people from our commission to make those decisions.
The question for the commission, based on the motion right now is do you want to reconsider the vote that was just taken? That is the only question before you. Then please do it.
Ok, Commissioner Gail. OK. Hi. Commissioner Lamontagne.
Your muted Mr..
Commissioner Sperry, High Commissioner Gibson, High Commissioner Pettit Nhé.
Commissioner Levitsky I. And Chairman Greive. I know.
All right, so now we need emotion is, as Kathy said to.
Basically clear that earlier when correct, Kathy?
Correct, rescind the previous vote and whatever else you want to put in that motion.
So we need someone to put up a motion to rescind and then somebody the second and then will vote and then we'll get a new motion needs to be presented. So someone might have put up a motion to rescind.
I'm Wolf, we we said, all right, second, second. All right, Jennifer.
Ok. Commissioner Lamontagne. Commissioner Gail.
This is the motion to rescind, correct? Correct. I'm not going to like the.
No. Commissioner Petitt de.
Commissioner Gibson, I. Commissioner Levitsky, right? Commissioner Sperry, I.
And Chairman Gref, I'll be consistent. No, but it is so moved, so now we go to a new motion.
I just I just want to bring to the commission's attention. I see a comment from the petitioner and I would like it.
Kathy, I don't know if you want to enter this into the record, but there is a comment from the IT the public hearing portion is closed.
So it is the chairman's discretion on whether to take at this point, it can be seen by clicking on your Q&A tab at the base for those of us.
And would like to see it.
Chairman of the motion to rescind the previous motion failed, so that motion stands.
So you are could to walk me through that again, then, could you mark the different people? Because that's not what I saw. I sure I have.
Commissioner Commissioners', Gibson, Levitsky and Sperry, who voted yes, and commissioners it Gale Lamontagne.
And chairman group that voted nay.
Is that the people who voted?
Is that their understanding that what they voted just to be clear, his vote to rescind was basically to say, I want to I want to, in a sense, negate that motion. I want to I want to be off the table so a new motion can be present. So by saying no, you're saying I want that motion to stay. And the motion that out there, the motion that was put out, there was a motion to approve with a subcommittee not coming back. So it's not a question of what his intention was. He commissioned Levitsky wanted to modify his vote based on his understanding. And so that's what was that's the whole process we just went through. So. The vote to rescind was basically for those who voted, misunderstanding what the motion was. If they said, yes, I want to rescind, that means that motion would end. If they said no, it means I want that motion to stand.
Was everybody clear on that?
So if you wanted the motion to stand, meaning the motion is, I want to I want to approve it, it goes forward, does not come back to the full commission, but it does go through a subcommittee and it has to be approved through the subcommittee working with those subcommittee members representing HPC and city staff and the petitioner.
I didn't I didn't. I have a motion in there between that right before Mr. Jones.
Yes. And that allowed reconsideration, I believe, based on the vote at this point.
The commission has.
Procedurally completed its work on this petition, I suggest that the vote stand as the last votes stand, which would allow which would grant approval subject to those items identified review, subject to approval by the by a subcommittee subcommittee, always has the opportunity to remans something back to the full commission. That is the final action that that's been taken. So I would encourage you to move on to your other agenda items at this point.
All right. So so move and we will move on to the next one. The next item is consideration of a request for approval of a statement of appropriateness for a single story addition to the front of the garage located on the east side of the home properties located at the address of 85 East Westminster building. Scary scale variance is also required. And I've asked Cathy I'm sure she'll weigh in on to help us better understand the history of that original variance.
And I think Mr. Degan is presenting this one this evening. So before we go into that, I'll ask if there are any conflicts or.
X Party interest, six party context. So right here, Mr. Degan, welcome and your team, please proceed.
Good evening. Before we get started on the presentation, I'd like to produce Tony and Danielle and they are they are present. And I would like to just have them give a quick introduction. So Tony and Diane, with that jump in, please.
Hello, everybody. Yes, I'm Tony. And this is Diane Menno. We've been residents of Lake Forest for thirty one years and in our house here on Westminster for 30, 30 years. And if we make it another thirty one years in Lake Forest, which we hope to with this addition, we will celebrate our 100th birthday. So we love the location. It's a fabulous community and we've raised our three daughters who all went to Lake Forest High School. We have three grandchildren two miles away. So I'll turn it over to Ed Henry to answer any questions. But we're looking forward to reviewing this and hopefully getting approval.
Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Thank you, Tony. Thanks.
So just to give you all, I'm sure you all had a chance to drive by it, but the context is obviously in the corner of Westminster and Green Bay Road, as indicated here on the site plan are the aerial view on the area of concern is is kind of straddled between the two courtyards right now, the the existing entry motor court and what is now the private sort of garage entry. Again, here's another aerial shot of the house. And again, the additions that we're proposing is going to be right in front of the existing garage. I'll move through this quickly, but it's a classical revival home. It was designed by Alfred Fraser in nineteen twenty nine. It has just fabulous lines and very neoclassical in nature. However, somewhat restrained, it's got a stucco field and there was an addition done some years ago. And this is the area of the the subject addition to the existing garage. And again, just to the left, you can see on the entry to the sort of the private part of the house in the mudroom area, this is a shot of the existing motor courts and the back side of the garage. And this is, again, where we're planning to add the additions off the front. This is taking a look at the the side entry off the the private motor court. And this really illustrates the style that we're mimicking. You have these beautiful Doric masters with the what's mimicking a Tripplehorn, but there are a fixed TransAm and a double bungalow. And then the use of the standing scheme, copper, which is the typical materiality on the entire roof.
Taking a look again further at the existing details. And then this is the entry motor court that at some point during the iteration was closed off. But the curved cut on East Westminster does exist and we plan on reinstituting that. And the main reason for doing that is once we do the additions off the front of the garage, it really pinches down on the drive. And so we felt like it would be a better use to have a guest entry and then in every day entry for the homeowners. And again, you can take a look at the existing site plan here. This is the existing motor court as it stands today. This is the drive that takes you into the private motor court in the entry into the garage. And you can see this existing stucco wall is a feature that we're going to continue all the way across the entire front face and then reinstitute a smaller sort of architectural and a landscape feature that connects the the main motor court or the guest motor court to the private motor court. And then you can see the addition of the proposed exercise room, multipurpose space. I won't spend much time on the plans on. I'll quickly cycle through to the elevations. But again, this is the existing front elevation right now. And this is the proposed. And again, you can see very clearly the architecture here is is imitating and mimicking the existing architecture that is on the home right now. We're not in any way reinventing the wheel. All the materiality is going to be the same.
This is the existing rotch right now and then this is the proposed. So, again, architecturally, we're we're just. Working off the kit of parts that currently exists on the home. And this is the motor court side and then the proposed. And we've just got some run elevation's just indicate materiality again, they're very artistic in nature, but they do illustrate the point of where we're doing the Dowrick Blasters and working off that existing parts for the for the new structure. And again, this is the garage elevation and then the record or the guest for elevation. And then this is just showing the the section detail. And we have a volume space proposed in the new structure. And this is just the existing writing plans. We've got proposed writing plans. And again, this is what I can quickly cycle to a really nice rendering by Rocco Furi and his team, just showing me the two different motorcoach and this very clever transition space where there's a paver walkway and then on either side of it, sort of a grass lined and granite mix that really ties these two cords together and a hedge. And we're not we're introducing an additional hedge beyond the existing everybody hedge that is already in place today. And then these are just a couple of three days of use. This would be as you pull in to the reinstituted curb cut on the private MOTOCORP side. And then this is what it would look like from the main entry cork. And that is it. I'm happy to answer any questions.
Thank you very much, Jennifer or Kathy Rose.
Thank you, Chairman. So I think Mr. Deegan gave a good overview of the design of the additions, but I just wanted to speak to the building skill variance that is requested as part of this petition. So the original residents on the property was built in nineteen twenty nine after the property was subdivided, which occurred in nineteen twenty five. The original residence was built many years before the city's building scale ordinance was established. And based on the city's current calculation method, the existing residence is over the maximum allowable square footage by twenty five percent.
And it's important to note that many existing historic structures exceed the maximum allowable square footage based on the current calculation method that is used with the proposed additions. The total square footage of the home would be twenty nine percent over the maximum allowable square footage. And while that percentage may seem high, it is not unusual or inconsistent with other building scale variance requests that have been presented and approved by the commission in the past. And with the approval of the building scale variance, it would allow the home to be modified to meet the property owners needs without significantly impacting the appearance or character of the historic property. The criteria for building scale variance are included in the staff report and the criteria speak to the macing and the height and scale of the additions in relation to the existing residents and in relation to surrounding properties. And the additions as proposed is much smaller in size and scale and is subordinate to the existing residents and to surrounding homes. The criteria also speaks to mature trees and vegetation that will help to mitigate the appearance of height and mass from the streetscape. And in this case, there is sufficient vegetation at the front of the property that will effectively mitigate views of the addition from the street. So based on staff evaluation, the criteria for building skill variance are satisfied. And the staff report provides findings in support of the overall petition. And those are all my comments.
Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you very much. All right. We are again only going to focus on any questions. So just anything you want to bring up for clarification, clarity, whatever it may be at this point. And we'll have plenty of time for comments and discussion. So starting with Commissioner Lamontagne, any questions?
No, Chairman, I, I don't be reviewing the landscape plan to answer the questions that I did have. Thank you.
Thanks very much, Commissioner Gibson.
Just one, is this an exercise or is it a garage?
Well, the the the the point of the space initially was to have it become an exercise recreation room, but it is a multipurpose space so it can function in numerous ways.
All right. OK, now, that's a very much commissioner spirit.
And just echoing Mr. Gibson. Can it be a garage? Is designing appropriate for garage?
I mean, this isn't it, yeah, that's not a problem. Yes, that's it. Thank you. Thanks very much, Commissioner Levitsky.
Thanks, Jen. When you hear reports room for standard to do to have the sighting of the addition and its small size, it does not significantly impact the proportions of the front facade. Well, when you say not significantly, what do you mean? When I looked at the building, I envisioned the addition. It seemed very nicely hidden. But at the same time, it does kind of stretch out the right side versus the left.
So can you comment on that?
Sure, so you're correct that this edition does project on the front of the house, the front facade, but in regard to the second standard, the proportion of the front facade because of the scale and the low profile of this edition, it really does not impact the already very strong front facade of the original residence. And for that reason, staff feels that this second standard is met with the design of the addition.
Thanks. That's all I have.
Thanks very much, Commissioner Petitt. Question.
My questions have been answered.
Thank you, Commissioner Gale. Any questions? Your questions?
And I don't have any questions. I had a very straightforward. I appreciate it. Now, we wait if there's any public testimony, anybody calling in or writing in.
Chairman, grief, we do not have any callers. The number is on the screen, eight four seven eight one zero thirty six forty three I, I do not see any comments or raised hands. Maybe give it a moment or two.
We'll do that. Thank you.
No callers, chairman, grief, thank you.
Thanks very much. All right. Comments and discussions will start with the commissioner, Gail.
Thoughts. Questions. Comments, discussion.
Supportive, it is a lovely classical house I admire very much it. I mean, if what they the architect and others say that it will not significantly affect the mass of the of the of the major house, if it will not be a major intrusion into the basic design, it seems to me a reasonable proposal, and I have no objection to it.
Thank you very much, Commissioner Gibson.
With the I like the landscape and I now understand that, and at first when I looked at it, I looked at the large percentage over Max allowed, and I thought, oh, my, I realize the Walter Frazier home right up front.
I realized also in an older home, I'm glad Jen mentioned the fact that in older homes, the percentage is going to fluctuate like that in terms of how it's done. So I'm I'm comfortable with it. You know, it's a large house. We all know that. It's a it's a brand. And I think having this addition as one story, it is subservient to the rest of the house. I think it's fine. And it's a nice. Nicely done.
Appreciate it. Thank you, Commissioner Pettitt.
And no, I think it's it's nicely done and there's no parking, I understand it, correct.
There's parking allowed on that side of the street. So the second curb cut should not interfere with what other people are doing there. So that was my only comment.
Appreciate it, Commissioner Spirit.
No, no. For your comments, I endorse this.
Thank you. OK, thank you very much. All right. Commissioner Levitsky, thanks.
I think it's fine. Thank you.
And Commissioner Lamington.
Not quite quite supportive and in agreement with some of the detailing that's being added above the Gracia's as well.
Thank you. I'm equally supportive. I think it's great that you were obviously very attentive to all of the the details throughout. And I and I do appreciate the just the overall massing up. But obviously, you needed to be big enough to be useful. But rather than take too many liberties, you were very thoughtful about that. So I think it's great. So with that, I'll ask if someone wants to put up a motion.
I'm happy to do that. Yes, thank you.
I move to recommend the approval at eighty five East Westminster for the Certificate of Appropriateness to allow construction of the single story edition on the north side of the existing garage, including the approval of a building scale variants, including modifications to the driveway, restoration of the cut on the east side of the property and landscaping into.
Second, I you have a second. All right, Jennifer. All right, Commissioner Pettit, a.
Commissioner Gibson, I.
Commissioner Gail High Commissioner is very high Commissioner Lamontagne, High Commissioner Levitsky, yes, and Chairman Greif with that, the motion passes.
And so thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Enjoy. Thanks. We are two and a half hours into this, so I'm going to make an easy executive decision that ask for a show of hands. And as the next petitioner is getting ready, if anybody wants to take a quick one or two minute break, I encourage you to do so. All right. When a two minute break and then we'll start, I believe the same.
They are. Are you able to share your screen?
Ok, I just want to make sure that we're OK. Thank you.
And a. The.
Nate, will I do I need to bring. Bill in will he be doing an introduction or.
Nate, you're on mute. Thank you.
He won't but bring him in just in case he wants to answer any questions during the Q&A period. OK, I'll do that.
Sarah Ferland should be on as well. And she's available to answer questions for about landscape.
Ok. And Melissa Sulkin, I see you've already added she's just going to introduce the FILKINS' really quickly. OK, great. Thank you.
Wait another minute and then we'll start up.
Jennifer, does it look like we have a full house? I think we're still missing. So, Commissioner Gail.
Yes, it looks like and Commissioner Spirits will just wait one more minute. Yes, and thank you to the petitioners for bearing with us this evening's can get long.
Absolutely no problem.
Chairman, I'm here.
Thank you. I think we're just waiting for Commissioner Gale and we'll start with their families.
Here are your back. OK, wonderful. All right.
Next on the list this evening is consideration of a request for approval of a certificate of appropriateness for a single story excuse me, authorizing the demolition of the existing single family residence in construction of a replacement residence at the address of nine ninety nine Rosemary Road. The commission will also consider the associated site plan and landscape plan in presenting this evening is night representing this evening. That's right. Welcome. Thank you very much. I'll just ask any conflicts with the commission members or ex party contacts.
Hearing and seeing none, please proceed and welcome.
Wonderful. Thank you very much. My name is Nate Lazarus. I'm a senior architect of North Works Architects. I'm very excited to present this project to the board today at nine nine nine Rosemary, we're working with Adam and Melissa Filkin to design this forever home for their family. Melissa is just going to take a quick minute and introduce the Filkins' to you guys.
Hello, everybody. Nice to meet all of you. I'm Melissa. About this is very exciting. My husband, Adam, I think is also on the call. And we have two small children. Tabitha is 11 and our son Alex is eight. And we are extremely excited about this project and making the move to Lake Forest. It's a it's a beautiful piece of land and we are extremely excited to work with North Works and building this dream home. And I mean, it's a great place for our kids to grow up and have a pool and a backyard. And I know our labradoodle will be just as excited to make the move as well.
Very much nice to meet you and welcome to Lake Forest. Thank you very much.
So what we've been working with Adam and Melissa on as a single family home for their home, for their residence in Lake Forest. You're seeing a rendering of it on the screen.
Right now. We're looking at a contemporary design, but really rooted in traditional forms and using materials that you find in the historic district. We really want a tailored look. We're not looking to do a stark house. The materials are very textural. We're looking at a soft white or light gray stucco with a sand finish. You'll have an integral color that'll give it some depth with some highlights and lowlights. We're looking at honed Indiana limestone trim around the windows and doors and cubicles. We're looking at a standing seam aluminum roof in the back of the house with the main volume in the front will have a slate roof, laxly grills looking at aluminum clad windows and doors, dark gray downspouts and gutters. And then the connecting elements are a elapsing deciding that we'll create some nice shadow lines and texture to the house. Here's a kind of quick overview of the materials. I'm not going to address the existing house on the site. I've been told we don't need to spend time talking about that today. I think you've all received the historic analysis that we have presented. So I'm just going to talk about a couple of the items that we've been working on with Mission. Here's the rear of the house. We are planning a pool and we're also the lot is very beautifully landscaped. We'd like to open it up just a little bit, make some little adjustments to create more cohesive lawn space and play area for the filkins' kids. You can see the existing lot here with the existing home, which is the single family ranch that is there now. Our new house, as you can see on the civil plan, it's centrally located on the lot. We have a pool on the East Side garage last.
And here you can see that with a little bit better color, the house is really made for indoor outdoor living on the first floor, the meeting rooms really wrapped the owl on the back of the house and really correspond to the exterior spaces. Like many of the houses in the neighborhood, there's full windows and doors that allow access and views out into the lawn.
It's really a gorgeous, gorgeous piece of property. One of the items on the site that we really loved, but we felt we could not save it. But we want to replicate it is the hedge along the property line. We do want to relocate with the where the driveway is located. And that would necessitate cutting a opening in the hedge. The existing driveway on the west side also leaves a gap in the hedge in consultation with Mariani because the landscape design, we didn't feel that hedge would really do well with that kind of modification. And even just the general construction traffic coming from the front of the loft would really stress it. So we are proposing to remove that hedge, but we also are planning to plant a new hedge in its location. We have a few tree removals on the site. We've tried to be very careful in the trees that we are removing. The tree removal is really fall into three groups. There are trees that conflict with the house, footprint in the hardscape. There are trees that have condition or structural issues. And there are then there are trees where we really want to open up the back of the house and create a little bit more of a cohesive yard space. The most of the trees are not that significant. You probably saw a list of the trees we're planning to remove in our report. The two that were really sad to lose are the two honeylocust. They're right in front and right behind the house. We had work to try to save the one of the rear yard, but the proximity of construction, even with different configurations, didn't leave a lot of flexibility other than the two honeylocust. There are some trees that have some structural issues on the front of the lot, even though their health is fine, they're leaning and we're Marijana believes they may be a forest. And then there's to Norway spruce is in the front yard that we'd like to relocate to the backyard and add that to the backyard screening as well.
Nate, for your information, we are at five minutes.
Thank you. You can see the landscape plan here. You can see that the the family that lived in this lot previously was really passionate. Landscaping in the lot is heavily landscape. And you can see that we really preserved a lot of existing landscaping and are enhancing it. But there are areas where we just want to make that grass area a little more cohesive so those kids can really run around and have a good time out there as well as the pool.
The new house is going to increase impervious surfaces on the lot. And there's really two major drivers for that. That would be the new driveway space is greater than existing and the the terrace space of the rear is greater than existing. The footprint of the house is actually smaller than the existing house. As far as the driveway goes, the increase of the drive was really driven by the fact that the drive the garage has pushed far back in the what the existing house had a driveway closer to the front, lot of face to face, Rosemary. And so pushing it back, obviously, Nessus necessitated this additional section of driveway to get to that garage. As far as we are Terrace's, the existing house did not have a pool. Once you add that pool, that's basically where our increase in previous surfaces come from. With two young kids moving from Chicago to the suburbs, the pool is very high on the list of desires. One of the big reasons for moving to lake for us, Mr. Cruise, is really fast. You'll see that the main living spaces are oriented around the L, the backhouse corresponding to the Rio Terraces second floor. The corridor runs along exterior wall. So as you pass to that space, I have experience with the yard window openings themselves on the front. We really can compose them in a magical and a formal arrangement with the greater composition of wall to window on the back. We got much more classy. We wanted to open things up this. Pretty consistent with the way buildings express the interior arrangement of rooms, and we'll show that some of the neighbor houses the east elevation as well. One of the staff comments was about all space on the East delegation.
Some of this is driven from interior considerations, practical considerations like no work for kitchen cabinets, but also we need exterior wall space for things like the electrical gasmier and things like that that we don't like to talk about. But every house has to have them. Here's the view from the front central opening and hedge nicely screens from the street. You'll see in a bit of that from the street.
I want to talk about this house in context with the neighboring properties really quickly. This house here is actually the house next door just to the last of the house.
It has a stucco exterior with some limestone details. It has the light coloring with no windows and gutters and downspouts that we really, really like. Obviously, this house is very different than our house, but we think that there's some comparables between the two. You'll also notice that.
At the back of the house is more glazing and there's clusters of windows creating bigger openings that really relate to that backyard, some other houses in the neighborhood. We've been looking at this one by Lake Road, similar house that's using a similar material palette that's really based on some of those traditional forms, but really treating the materials and the details in a in a more modern way. This doesn't Thornleigh is not in the historic district. The historic district kind of wraps around Fort Wayne. But I show it because it's very visible from Rose-Marie, the north side of Rosemarie's, a ravine, and this is right across the ravine. This is a little maybe a little more modern than our house, but it shows that sort of clean consideration of vernacular forms and using really textural materials that give you Shadowlands in depth.
Some of the other houses that we see in the neighborhood, 30 Lake Road, has another sort of traditional mass with these modern materials.
And Hesser come and we love the textural quality of the roof and the sounds around the doors and windows. We think this is something that we could we could achieve.
Is that is that a danger that is the 10 minute time. All right, great. I'm happy to answer any questions.
Thank you. We'll turn it over to Jennifer. Appreciate it.
All right. So this property is located in the East Lake Forest historic district, and the existing residents on the property was built in nineteen fifty five. And it is identified as a contributing structure to the historic district based on its age. The existing residence was built as a modest ranch style home, and it really is not particularly unique or distinctive to the historic district. And when viewed in comparison to the surrounding historic homes in the neighborhood, such as the home, the home directly west and across the street, it becomes clear that the existing residence does not reflect much significance architecturally. The petitioner did submit a historic resource evaluation that provides the history of the property and more detailed information about the existing residents, and that report is included in the commission's packet.
The report also recognises that the house is not historically significant and its demolition would not negatively impact the overall character of the historic district. And based on the information provided in the report and staff's own evaluation of the existing residents, staff finds that the criteria for demolition are satisfied and findings in support of the of the demolition are provided in the staff report.
The proposed replacement residence, as described by the petitioner, is designed in a contemporary style and reflects clean and simple forms and architectural detailing.
And although the residence is designed in a contemporary style, the proposed macing informs seen in the replacement. Residents do relate to the more traditional architectural styles found in the surrounding neighborhood. The proposed exterior materials consist of high quality natural materials that are consistent with the character of the neighborhood. And the home also features architectural detailing, like the gable, parapet, walls and limestone surrounds that are similar to elements found on the historic home directly to the West. Staff does offer a few recommendations in the report that speak to the proportions of openings in the rhythm of solids to void's as currently proposed. The residence reflects a variety of opening sizes, and staff suggest further study of the size and proportions of the different openings in an effort to present a more consistent appearance across all the elevations of the home. And when looking at the rear elevation of the residence, there are some large expanses of openings that are proposed to take advantage of views of the rear yard. And staff recommends that some refinement to the large expanses of openings to some extent in order to more closely follow the rhythm of solids to voids reflected on the other elevations of the home. But recognizing that it is important to allow views from the home to the rear yard and given the distance from the rear of the home to the rear property line along with the existing and proposed vegetation, it appears that impacts on neighbouring properties from light spillover will be minimal. Based on information submitted by the petitioner, the total amount of impervious surface on the site equals 30 percent. And in an effort to lower the overall amount of impervious surface on the site, staff recommends further study of the width of the driveway to see if that can be reduced. And also consideration should be given to the use of pavers or another hardscape treatment for all or a portion of the driveway and motor court as an alternate to asphalt to allow for some increased pervious surface on the site. And those are all my comments. But if there's any questions, I'd be happy to answer those. Thank you, Jennifer.
Thank you very much. To the commission for questions, and just so you're all aware, the it was at my request that they not go into a deep review of the other particular submitted in the packages as relate to the demolition. I thought it was very thorough. And I'm sure a lot of you remember times when we looked at demolitions and we spent a considerable amount of time going over some things that actually might have been interesting historically, but they really didn't relate to whether or not conditions were met or not met as it related to demolition. So I ask that we just let our Q&A period that we were starting with now address any questions that anybody might have had as they reviewed those submissions as it relates to demolition. And then certainly any other questions you have as it relates to the the replacement structure? This is the time to do that as well. So we could start with Commissioner Petitt.
Any questions on either topic?
Yes, I think that there was concern by a neighbor about.
They're fencing being used as your pool fencing and just wanted to ask that question and see that you were going to provide fencing around the backyard.
The existing backyard is fenced in with a with an existing cedar fence. We plan to maintain that fence, repair, repair it and keep it in place. We're not sure of the ownership of that fence between us and the neighbor.
We understand they they sent a letter in, would be happy to provide a fence along that property line to touch on another some other items in that letter. They were kind of questioning the location of the pool on that side of the lot in the pool equipment as well.
We're actually planning to keep to keep the pool quiting on the other side of the lot. We're sort of creating a corral at the end of the garage for a lot of the equipment. So they'll be happy to know that the equipment is planned to be on the opposite side of the lot from their house.
So you so will you be moving that door from the garage that open central out into that proposed area? Will you be?
I think we'll have a walkway at the back of the garage and then the crowd will be right past that.
So we'll have to pool equipment and the generator. We have to we'll see what kind of fits with the clearances, OK.
I'm just going to weigh and say I there is an awful lot of glass on the back and an awful lot of doors on the back, I think 11 different.
That's, of course, going out and there's a few areas where.
The proportion of the windows seem a little bit off, and I would suggest that I don't know if that answers the question, you said that they're based upon the interior needs versus let's say there's a lot of glazing at the rear of the house because the main living spaces are sort of wrapped around that al oriented to the backyard.
And so we want a lot of permeability for that indoor outdoor living as far as the actual glazing proportions. There's actually a pretty limited number of of different window types on the project. And all those types were chosen to have pane sizes that are that are the same proportions or really kind of finding a unit of the window and then using that to to develop the different window types.
Ok, thank you. Thank you for me, Commissioner Gibson. Questions.
Yes, is there a can I ask about the I would ask about the impervious part, but also is there a sport coat the sport caught dead on this? That is how deep is that in the basement?
The sport courts about twenty one feet deep below grade. And that is underneath the garage. Yeah, we have done a soils analysis in the soils on the site are fairly favorable. So we are not anticipating concerns with with soil and excavation.
Ok, I'm always concerned about runoff, water runoff and where it goes. And I'm not quite sure on this one where where things go. I think you did give us a grading plan.
So on the lot slopes, basically the high point of the lot is the southwest corner and the low point a lot is the front of the lot. So there's a pretty good slope from the back to the front of the lot, the house being l shaped.
We want to drain that out as well. So the yard is going to drain south for a bit, but there's a swale along the property line for surface runoff.
One of the things we really wanted to avoid was having kind of a pit with a drain in the backyard. So it's been graded so everything can grade by surface drainage.
So I'm sorry, you say the high point in the southwest and it goes then to northeast. That's correct. But it also flows south. Did you say water flows southeast?
So so if you don't think about the the platform of the houses, the lot's pretty evenly.
But then once you put the house, you kind of need to drain out that back. So just that portion will drain you kind of around the pool.
And there's a swell on the east side, on the Israeli side or all the windows clear. Yes.
We're going through what I call the covid houses. Every house that I've seen is white with black trim for the year. And I just wanted to make certain that we didn't have tinted windows and tinted windows. No, no arctic white stucco, OK, like you might be leaning toward maybe even a light like gray, maybe a light gray is definitely within the realm of possibility.
But also think in terms of the where else have you have you looked at obviously with the steps that maybe narrow the driveway to get rid of the 30 percent impervious parts. Have you looked at anything else, like maybe making the drive for the fourth quarter a little smaller or maybe maybe the width of the driveway on the west side, a little more narrow, anything?
Yeah, we did originally have a larger drive caught. We have we have shrunk that truck that down a bit. Part of the consideration is there's no parking.
Right. It's not a Sheridan. So we want at least some parking on site for some incidental visits. We're happy to include pavers in the in the driveway area. We're happy to work with staff on that to do some paper detailing either in the parking court orders. And then also currently all terraces are counted as impervious.
But we do imagine some of that going to be sand set and more pervious. But but for the purposes of calculation, they're all candidates impervious of them. All right.
Ok, and have you thought of that? Because this is such a contemporary home? I understand demonstrations still can be a problem by not having that deep enough or detailed enough. Are you planning on having how are you doing the detailing around the the windows?
So we we want a modern house, but we don't want to start cause we're very concerned about textural qualities. So those limestone surrounds around the windows will provide shadow lines to the glazing.
So that's one strategy for that.
Ok, and how about it? Looks like you just have one lantern in the front.
Have you thought about two or maybe we thought about you. We sort of liked the one on top, just compositionally explored the different options.
Ok, and I think that's it. I think that's just for now. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you very much, Commissioner Levitsky, questions, I have no questions.
We've already been asked and I have no question the demolition.
I'm sorry. No questions. I have no questions. OK, great. Thank you very much, Commissioner Spirit.
I guess I'm looking at your tree list. Trees are highlighted.
Can you just go over for the group? What's what? It's not because there's a lot of trees on your lawn.
Yes, there are a ton of trees and just are tree surveyor Nilles Johnsson was very well above and beyond and listed trees that are down to an inch in diameter.
So there's tons of trees on there. So I'll go through them briefly. So there's two Norway spruce is in the front yard that are being removed. Those are actually being replanted to the backyard or planted to add those to the screening in the back. We definitely want a lot of privacy for ourselves, but also for the neighbors. The two, I would say the most significant trees are the two honeylocust. They're fairly sturdy trees. We we love them.
We definitely tried different ways of arranging the house to save save the trees. But they're so central to the lot it's hard to develop without without losing those. There are some there's two trees and in the front yard on the east side that are fair health, but they're actually leaning in in consultation with Mariani. The structure is not stable and we think that those are a risk going to the backyard.
There is a river birch that's sort of kind of central in some of the land area.
It's a very manicured river birch. It looks like a like a gum drop on a stick right now. And so that is one of the trees being removed. There's a cluster of urb vidi in the back. We plan to keep most of that. But there's actually one urb very that's a different cultivar that also stands sort of separate from that cluster. And so we want to remove that tree as well.
Going further back, there is a black walnut tree that's in poor, poor health.
And the two in the front of the Scotch pines that are leaning.
And I think that's that's the tree removal, so we're planning.
Ok, so now that you've gone through it, my understanding is when you see that list, it's pretty daunting and it's a big list.
The other question I had is she's using aluminum for the windows that we want to have aluminum clad windows.
We would do a putty profile on the exterior, which is the kind of traditional profile, because normally in the historic district, we use natural materials, as I'm sure you know.
So that had been explained.
And then as far as the surface and the massing of solids to wait. Have you considered at all actually lessening the glass on the back side of the home? So it is a bit it's a lot.
There's a lot I wouldn't say there's a crazy amount, actually. If you look at the house next door, it has big clusters of big openings as well.
Looking into the backyard. I think that indoor outdoor living is what people love about Lake Forest and so such a beautiful place.
You really want to be in your yard all the time. We definitely looked at different arrangements of of windows and doors throughout the project. There's some center lines and views through the house that we really want to maintain plan wise, which I'm I'm happy to to point out.
But we really did study the arrangement and the sort of access inside and outside of the house.
Ok, no further questions. And I'm supporting the dam. Thank you.
Ok, thank you. Commissioner Lymington questions.
I've got a few questions. Thank you. The no questions related to the demolition of the just to get back to the tree with the Japanese maple, which is in great condition back there. What is that? Is that being relocated? I couldn't quite see that in the park.
I did miss that one that is being relocated. Sarah, let me know if I'm misspeaking, but I think that one is going to be moved to the backyard.
That's our hope. Yes, great. So you'll be able to say that I'm great.
I was very close to the house if he's seen the photos. It's right there. It's a beautiful tree. It's a beautiful tree.
The the the existing fence that's on the west side of the property.
Just looking at the siting of the stake in that fence, sort of over onto the property a bit, it it didn't seem like they were 17 feet as my point from where the state was to where the. The property line is.
Our civil plan shows that roughly along the property line.
And we were planning to to maintain it, if it's in pretty good condition, has a really nice patina and it's also planted over, there's kind of plants like hanging over it as well. So the fear was that if we removed it and rebuilt it, we really be getting into the planting beds.
But there's plenty of clearance to get the dried 13 foot drive in four foot of landscapes. There is OK, and then the garage caught. Just curious, does that allow for proper circulation for a car to be able to back out of the driveway without backing onto the lawn?
It does. You would be pulling in and pulling, you know, pulling out. You can obviously do a. U-turn there. It would require kind of flying in and out of the garage.
Ok, and last two questions. The on your proposed work elevation. There's one window which caught my eye, and I think it may just be a drawing thing, but I just want to be clear. I think it's a window that's in the upper stairway that doesn't show any dividing writes. Is that close to drawing here?
Let me just open up that drawing real fast.
So you're talking about the small window off to.
The right, yes, so that's a small that would be pretty far back from the front of the house, that elevation sort of flattened.
It does have a division in the middle. It's a casement window. And so there's one division in the middle, but no vertical division. And that's the reason for that is really looking at the patterns of the individual panes and finding the relationship between those individual panes, between the different window types.
But sort of a split at the paint would be too narrow, but on your it rendering it, showing a window.
And I'm like, that's the same window. Correct. That one looks wider and it does have the vertical divided light.
You're right, you have it a little larger there, but only by only thinking is because of the the proportions of the hole.
If there's one element that sticks out a bit as people are coming in that motor corridor, I think it's going to be visible. And I think you just take a look at that is my point.
I think we could I think we could make that big enough to have the vertical. And I personally do love the rendering.
So, yeah, let's do it. And then the last question I have is I know you're using a couple of different materials, the Vermont slate, as well as metal standing Zeine and other Tenga for 12 on the on the shed dormers, which I can understand why you want to introduce a different material.
Why not use more of the Vermont slate on this property?
I think we really like the metal roof material itself, we think it's beautiful. The fans have the Shadowline. We like the idea of elevating that front volume of the house with the slate as well as the wings.
So I think it's really an aesthetic aesthetic decision to go with a grey metal roof.
Anything else? Nope, that's it. Thank you. Thanks very much, Commissioner Gail.
I think most of my questions have been raised by other commissioners, but I would just say that I am concerned about the permeable surface trying to diminish the impermeable surface by various devices. And I support you in that. I hate to see some of those trees perfectly healthy trees go. All along, it seems to me there's there's lots of room, and if you can think there are a lot of trees coming down, so that's the second area.
And then on the windows, I lose track of them.
But I do think that there are a variety of windows and there might be some virtue in simplifying the styles and perhaps diminishing some of the. Some of the width of the windows in the back, even though I understand the notion of wanting to maximize natural light and bringing in the the indoors and keeping the indoors in the outdoors at the interchange between them, good.
But I essentially have no questions that have not been asked.
Great. Thank you. It's probably in the presentation somewhere. But just a quick question. The facade of the replacement structure, you have set it back further from the original. How far back is that? What's that? Do you have a rough sense of how far that is?
Give me a minute and I can figure that out and it just just an estimate, I mean, I can see it marked marked on one of the the plan pages.
It it's probably, I'd say a roughly one hundred feet back, let's say, OK, we definitely wanted to not come forward from where the existing structure is or sort of that nice set back quality of the existing house.
Yeah, no, it was just a question for clarification because actually I think that's the right way to go. I think you you have plenty of land to do that. I think setting the tone back further to the artist is a good idea. I just wanted to get a sense of how far that was outside of that, no other questions.
So we will wait and see if anybody wants to either send in a question or call in.
So we'll wait for Kathy.
Chairman Grieve, we currently do not have any callers.
The number is back up on the screen, eight four seven eight one zero thirty six forty three do not see any comments. Or raised hands, so, Mr. Chairman, I think you can proceed.
Great, great. All right. So it comes back to us for discussion and and review. So we'll start with Commissioner Gibson. What are your what are your thoughts?
Well, welcome to the neighborhood. The first and I think I think you might want to take a look. I didn't mention this in my questioning, but make might take a look, relook at the windows on the south.
I think simplification would be better. It has a lot of windows, and I know it doesn't shine in people's windows and that's fine. But it's the south end. It's going to you're going to have a lot of light coming into that. I you didn't hear me go on my rant about metal roofs, but I do not care for them. And I certainly if I had a choice between Vermont Slate or metal, a sheet metal roof, I choose the former. So I think that I would I would rethink that one, too, because it's such a beautiful, such a beautiful texture, the impervious part. I think you really need to take a look at it, narrowing some of your driveways a bit and obviously using pavers and some of the things that you can do. And also, I think that's it. Congratulations.
Thank you very much, Commissioner Levitsky.
Thank you. I would support staff and some of the other commissioners comments about the windows, both the proportion of front versus rear and the number of windows sounds void in the rear rear part of the home. I was really impressed with the attempts, successful attempts to make your home compatible with other homes. And I've been to enough of these where people talk about it, but they don't really go into depth and show how they did it. And you did not. I was very impressed by that. So thank you. And that's all I.
Thank you very much.
Let's see, Commissioner Spiri, no further questions or comments.
Thank you, Commissioner Pettit.
I have no further comments.
Let's see, Commissioner Gail.
I guess I said everything in the previous comment, so I support it and welcome to the neighborhood, to the Filkins'.
Ok, Greg, thanks very much. I don't believe I missed anyone if I did speak up, but I don't believe so. Steve. Oh, Steve, I'm sorry. Please proceed. I have no real further questions.
Again, I would ask other commissions had mentioned I urge you to just look at some of the window styles and it's more not only amount of glass, but some of the mullion styles. Right. So where you're being forced to only have horizontal divided lights versus the vertical, that some of the vertical consistency of them, that quite supportive.
Thank you very much.
I just want to clarify, there's no glazed, no glazed windows. Right. We did clarify that the windows are clear. They're not correct.
Thank you. Yes. That question came up and confirmed. Yes. Thank you for bringing that up. All right. I am equally supportive and we thank you for all the good work and and the homework that was done. I'll kind of recap the comments that were made.
And these are what we put out is we don't put them as conditions of approval by any means, but basically we put them out there for the record. So as if indeed we the commission votes to approve, there will be a number of excuse me, suggestions on here of things that you work with city staff on to revisit and refine. So the ones that came out consistently basically had to do with the windows. And just to revisit looking at the windows, not only the quantity of windows, but the flow of the windows and also just the sizing of them to to try and manage more consistency in the rear. As a commission, we're always more forgiving towards the rear of the home because we understand that people want more visibility and views of their backyards when we respect it and understand it. But at the same time, we do look for kind of continuity and flow and consistency of the various facades. And so to the degree that you can revisit the amount of windows that were there or the sizing in the rear, that would be helpful.
The driveway overall and how you can reduce the the impervious surface, I think would be helpful. You already had some good suggestions and I think we would be very supportive of you following up in that direction. A comment that I would put out is I think it's great that you're very thoughtful, being very thoughtful about the fact that you don't want to look stark. But you've been around Winters' here in Illinois. And when you have nothing but snow in your yard, even if the home itself goes a little bit gray, if you have nothing to snow, that creates a lot of contrast in the summer. If you have a black asphalt driveway leading to a home that's white or off white, it also exaggerates that contrast. So if you're trying to get away from that to the degree that you can come up with some driveway materials that aren't so dark approaching the home, that will help for the summer months. And also, I encourage you to, as you think of elements of the home, because it's it's very clean lines and we understand that. And the thought is to be contemporary at the same time. You want to make sure that you have some. Lack of a better term, I don't want to call it character, but some of that other detailing that you talked about, they play a much bigger role when you basically just have a stuccoed front, flat, front and and window and set. So to the degree that you can drop some other elements and that has to do with how far the windows are in set, what materials you put around the windows and so forth, I think that can be very helpful and it's good to think about that. The other comment was, I think it was more consistency, the roofline, because I think it was slight in the front and then the the metal roof towards the rear. And so to the degree that you could revisit doing that, we understand there's certainly a cost element to slight sensitive to that. But if you can revisit that and I think we talked about the fence pool sensitivity to trees.
So I think everything else was covered. Anybody want to add anything that I did not bring up?
Ok, so with that, someone want to put up a motion, I will. Should it be a combination of the demolition and we vote on that.
And then if you want to do it separately, we certainly can do them separately, Jan, or you can just say you approve both approve of the demolition and.
Ok, all right, I'll do that. OK, I move to recommend the approval of demolishing the demolition of nine nine nine Rosemary Road as it exists. And also with that move to recommend the approval of the new nine nine nine Roseberry Road property with certain conditions that might be revisited.
The first is the revisiting the number of windows and the sizing second is the driveway overall.
Third is the review of the colors used and of the fourth, the details of the detailing of the house and also the detailing or the types of materials used in the roof.
And also, any other comments that would have been included in any other comments about a second? I see a second with Commissioner Gail, all right, with that, Jennifer.
All right, Commissioner Sperry, I'm Commissioner Gail.
Commissioner Lamontagne. Commissioner Levitsky, yes. Commissioner Gibson by Commissioner Pettitte and Chairman Greif. I with that, the motion passes. Thank you.
Wonderful welcome again and thank you for the terrible presentation and good luck with everything from.
All right, out of the next, so consideration of a request for approval of a certificate of appropriateness, approving a new single family resident that is now in a vacant lot located at the address of to ninety five Robinson Drive Commission, will also consider the associated site plan and the landscape plan.
And presenting again this evening is Mr. Degan. So welcome again, Mr. Degan.
And before you begin, I'll ask if there are any conflicts or expert contacts.
Hearing and seeing none of them again and proceed.
And you want to start do you want us to jump in first? For sure. Why don't you guys quickly jump in and then. That's all right.
Hello, everyone, and thank you very much for all your diligence. Chris and I and Tony, my wife, Liz, we live in Lake Forest today. We have four kids. We've been in the area for about six years. But Liz is fifth generation, I believe. One hundred eighteen years her family has been here. Her father owns GGO, the realty company here. And we look forward to presenting our house in the woods, a colonial revival and having the conversation this evening.
So thank you. Fantastic. Thank you. We look forward to it. All right.
Yep. Thank you. Just. I'm going to quickly walk you through the architecture and feel Rossborough is going to jump in and talk about landscape. So with that, I'm just going to give you guys some quick context. The house is off the Green Bay Road as you head towards Lake Bluff. It's a very large lot. It's almost two acres. It's set well back from Green Bay Road. So there is no visibility from Green Bay currently. You can see as highlighted in red right now, it kind of wraps around the property and heads back towards the tracks. This is the entrance gate of Green Bay Road.
We don't we don't see your screen. I'm sorry.
That's the screen of Green Party. I don't know what you're doing wrong here.
Hang on. I need the visuals right here. It sounded good, though.
It said we're not seeing what's being described here.
We appreciate that. We talked about that. There you go. Can you see it now?
Sorry about that. I just cycle through here really quick. Again, here's the context. You guys can see me in red, right? That's the proposed site for the Green Bay Road. And then this is the entry gate, which you know well. And if you went to the site today and we're brave enough to tromp around the stakeout site, this is what you would see at the entry point. And this is the Robinson drive as it wraps around the site. Again, it's a heavily wooded site right now. One thing to note from the tree survey that was generated the last time it was updated was twenty thirteen.
Ok, so I think a number of trees have fallen since twenty thirteen. So it is something that we're in process of updating, but we're unable to do so prior to this meeting. So that is something that we plan on updating. Just for the record. Again, these are just more context sites. And then here's the site. I'm going to quickly talk about the orientation of the home, but you can see the building setbacks on the property. There's a couple of conservation areas that we're not allowed to build in. So the only area that we can put a footprint of the home in is the area that is called out here, that the topography of the site really slopes from north to south on as you go across the site. One of the higher points is the entry point that we have in the goal really was to have some orientation to the existing state structure, which is to the north. And we wanted to travel past the home to get a glimpse of the home and then come into the property and I can talk more about it. We have designed a courtyard style home. It is of the colonial revival style and the goal being that as the front of the home graces Robinson Drive and it's the public realm, the private realm is created by a courtyard with a three three season logo and spring run and then an L shape for the four season living. About that, you take taking a look at the plans. I'm not going to spend a lot of time on these, but the main floor plan you have to flanking main forms with a front porch, which is what you see first when you pull in to the home. And again, the wraparound courtyard, which creates a really great private area for the pool and outdoor entertainment.
Additionally, I'm just going to quickly cycle through these. Here's the elevation, the front elevation, and we've had a little bit of debate and I could use maybe some input from the commission on this. We've had some discussion about the front elevation and the fact that we have a bad design on the left gable side, but not on the right. And so we certainly would appreciate the commission's input on what if we went this. Route to base, so we've had to wait internally, but we'd certainly like some feedback when you guys get to it, the materiality of the home is a mix of clapboard and fieldstone. We have a water table that wraps all the way around the house and we've got Fieldstone either climbing up on walls and wrapping enclosures in certain areas to highlight and really sort of engage with the landscape. Again, this is the East view and you can get a view of the MOTOCORP back here, which is completely private from Robinson Drive as you go through a share to get to it. Again, that's a view shot of the port here. Here's the rear elevation of the courtyard elevation. And again, you can see on this side is is really where the motor court is. You move to the private backyard courtyard and then this is the screen room structure, which really attaches to the main house by way of a Beaujon. And again, another view shot as you cut through the Lúcia, looking at the rear elevation of the home.
Again, this is the West elevation. We were looking at the backside of the fieldstone screen from the logia and then the Four Seasons room, which gets that nice, robust exposure and a section cut through the house, just really articulating how you move from the front porch through the home, into the private courtyard in the back. And again, this is a shot of the interior courtyard looking at the screen room structure and the connecting Lúcia. So this really is an artistic rendering, but it really gives you an idea of the the different materiality that we're expressing on the front facade. And the mix of fieldstone and clapboard really provides a really nice texture with the cedar roof, again, will be used in copper gutters and downspouts. The only metal on the house would be the introduction of that on the radio or on the on that angle base on everywhere else. The material is just as articulated. And I'll quickly walking around the house again. This is the motocorp side of the home and the cut through the logia and then again the rear elevation. And you can see we have managed the on the fencing about the pool, not around the whole property, but just around that immediate courtyard. So you can see the the wrought iron fencing that we have to maintain the code that is needed.
And again, the West elevation. And I'm quickly going through these so that I can turn here some proposed perspectives that you would come up to the front of the home and then this is a shot of the back courtyard. And again, this is the materiality that we are expressing on the home copper gutters, Pennsylvania field, stone, cedar, cedar siding and cedar roofing. And then with that, I'll turn it over to Phil Rossborough.
All right, everybody hear me good. Great, thanks, Ed and commissioners, we're excited to talk about the landscape proposed solution for this wonderful new home. We're going to share this. We're going to jump in and share the site plan. And I think that the I think the important thing to jump in on this is the orientation of the home allows for this, for it to be nestled behind the conservation area. And by locating the driveway entrance to the west and sort of past the house, that combined with this uninterrupted woodland border in front, really allows this house to be feel like it's completely surrounded by the woods and nestled in the woods. And that was something we really were working towards. It also keeps a strong visual connection to the original estate without it being focused directly on the estate original estate home. But coming into the west and the higher part of the site allows for the entry experience, which is flanked by two stone piers that sort of hearken to that stone wall on Robbins. And you kind of you you slide down towards the gravel court, which just again further accentuates being nestled down in the woods.
And the dry circle sort of allows for a nice arrival. It's surrounded by a low evergreen hedge and a mixed group of plantings which allow some views to the house, but again, reinforce that sort of nestled feeling, but keeping the foundation low so that the water table and stone on the houses is left exposed. The driveway then connects around the side to the east to the service court, which connects all garage bays and surrounded by some just simple little plantings and then connects to the backyard and really jumi the West Side. The West Side is almost undeveloped. We've got a few subtle stepping paths through it to connect to the screen porch for service or cool equipment and a few understory and plantings installed. So the back of the house is really the jewel, if you will, and the focus of the site development plan. The pool garden is aligned architecturally with the great room and crosswise with both that extension of the garage and the screen porch. And so with that intertwined with the terraces in the garden area is really sort of creates a real casual but lovely family entertaining place.
The stone borders around with brick inlays and then, as Ed mentioned, the wrought iron railings, so. The overall concept sort of depicts the respects, the nature, a natural feel of the site and takes its cues from the colonial revival architectural style, allowing for some subtle axial alignment within the context of that natural sight, and then just an open line in the back for family fun. So we're going to jump in. We have just limestone steppers and then either granite or reclaimed brick as sort of our carbos for our driveway definition, for the pool garden, both the field stone railing and simple wrought iron detailing for enclosure. And then you get a sense of kind of the brick and limestone building combination and the idea of the limestone border here. So all keeping with the style and aesthetics, this slide shows the proposed conceptual planting plan, followed by a series of images that are some of the specimens that we're thinking of at this point, all keeping both nature and architectural. So we're excited about it. And we're looking forward to your comments and fielding questions. Thanks.
Thank you, Jennifer.
Thank you. Thank you, Chairman.
So this property is located on the south side of Robertson Drive, a private road that is off of Green Bay Road on the east side. The property is located in the Thorpdale subdivision, which created six building blocks on the original Thawne Dale Manor estate. This property will be the second newly constructed residence in the subdivision. The first lot that was developed is located on the corner of Green Bay Road and Robinson Drive, and that was built in twenty fifteen. The site is not.
The site that is now proposed for development is approximately one point eight acres, and like other sites in the subdivision, is protected through a combination of easements and buffer areas that were established as part of the subdivision process to protect the wooded character of this area. The residence that is proposed is designed in the colonial revival style and the proposed macing of the home rule forms and various design elements are consistent with the colonial revival architectural style as currently proposed. Most of the windows on the home are double hung windows that are vertically oriented with narrow proportions. Although there are some areas that have different window sizes that do not seem to follow the vertical and narrow proportions of the majority of the windows found on the home. So staff does recommend some refinement of the size and proportions of the windows and an effort to present a more consistent appearance across all the elevations and to more closely follow the style of windows found in the colonial revival architectural style. The proposed rear elevation, as currently proposed, does present some large expanses of openings, and staff understands that large areas of windows are desirable to provide more natural light and to also take advantage of views to the rear yard. But in an effort to more closely follow the rhythm of solids to voids found on the other elevations of the home, staff suggests that some adjustments are made to the size and the groupings of windows on the rear elevation.
The existing site is heavily wooded and as currently proposed, a total of thirty four trees are proposed are proposed for removal. The trees proposed for removal include oak species, shagbark hickory and cottonwood trees, and many of the trees are over 18 inches in size and are defined as heritage trees. At this time, the tree survey information, like Mr Degan explained, was dates back to twenty thirteen. And prior to submitting plans for a permit and up to date tree survey will be needed to verify the total number of replacement inches that will be required to be planted on site. And if the total number of replacement inches cannot be fully planted on the site, a payment in lieu of the remaining replacement inches will be required to support plantings in the area. Overall, based on staff review, the proposed residence is consistent with the standards of the commission, and something to point out is that throughout the design process, the petitioner was very responsive to input from staff and made some significant changes to the design that really improved and enhanced the appearance of the home. And those changes allowed for staff to move forward with findings in support of this petition and offer a positive recommendation to the commission for approval. And those are all my comments. If there's any questions, I'd be happy to answer those. Thank you.
Thank you, Jen.
So two questions, if we could start with Commissioner Petitt questions on the petition.
And. I don't really have any questions, I think you answered it. I had a problem with the front.
The lack of the symmetry from the front door, I.
I personally love cemetery and would go with matching the veins on both sides.
I agree with the staff on the. Some of the rhythm of the windows. But I thought the presentation was very clear and I have no outstanding questions.
Great, thank you very much, Commissioner.
Real, real simple question that the shutters that are proposed for the House are intended to be wood and the color is what is that correct?
The artistic rendering, we really didn't develop the color necessarily, so in the rendering, they're shown as white, but we honestly haven't defined that yet. But they would be would.
Yes, thank you.
No other questions, Commissioner Gibson.
And what color is the house again?
But the color that the majority of the color of the House from the front elevation is really defined by the fieldstone because the whole front main facade is going to be that FIELDSTONE And then we have a clapperboard that is going on. We haven't discerned it's going to be an off-White or a subtle white. But like I said, I think the really the majority of the field, the front facade of the home really is going to be driven by the fieldstone, OK? And we don't have we're using a Pennsylvania field stone in here, but we don't actually have real samples as of yet and not soon, so.
Ok, I have a question about how are you going to detail out your dormers?
You have dormers in the front?
That's correct, yeah, so they are able to armor and there to be detailed out similarly to what's with the the large cables are on the front facade. So they do have a, you know, a cornice and eve condition that would be in keeping but scaled appropriately for those donors.
Ok, let me see.
Oh, Transoms, you have there are a lot of transoms in this house. Have you thought about not having transoms? I mean, there's a lot of light that's going to be admitted in and out both.
Sure. You know, I mean, we we went back and forth, but being that the house is in the woods and we really wanted to try to, you know, take advantage of the fact that that there really isn't anybody else around. And so that would really provide them an opportunity to engage with the landscape around them. So that was really what was driving that.
Ok, well, we we looked at this property before with another petitioner and the house this house, actually, the south portion of this house faces fourteen ninety even even with all the cottonwoods that are probably going to come down, which probably should. But there was there's still a house back there that probably see quite a bit of light coming from your the south view of the house. That's why I'm thinking would you consider maybe removing some of the transoms because you're still going to have a lot of opening onto the pool and the and the and the main area of the working area of the house. Would that be something that you might consider?
Well, I could certainly discuss that with my clients. I do know that that Phil had had somewhat of a plan to make sure that we were going to be screened appropriately as well. And and maybe he could jump in and illustrate that also from a landscape perspective, to be sure that we're being respectful to the neighbor to the south.
All right. OK, well, thank you. I think that was it.
Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Gil.
I don't have any particular question that always have my my usual, but I want to compliment you on a low amount of impervious surface, although I realize that you have a large a large property nonetheless. That is very good. I hate to see so many trees come down, but I realize it's a serious way. I don't think that I have any particular questions.
Thank you, Commissioner Spiri.
So, yeah, wow, guys, I tell you, it's such an amazing improvement on this block, so thank you.
This is a beauty. I know you asked us to weigh in on the bay window in the front to today or not to be right.
But I think a bay window addition would add amazing symmetry. And it's going to give you some pop definition inside and just make whatever room that is a lot more interesting. So I would give a double thumbs up for that. I think what Chairman Green said to a previous architecture will also have a lot of lights on the House floor in front and the back is remember and take a look right now, with all the snow on the ground at what the White House is look like, we may want to consider a palette that is not white or an off-White or a soft tint, because right about now my house is white, which is why I say this. The House looks kind of wonky and gray and almost slightly dirty. And, you know, we don't have short winters here. So it's just something considered heavily static. I love the use of stone and I love the cedar roof. I'm trying to get my arms around that hole. That's between it. And it's not the garage. I'm looking at the front facade right now at the French artistic rendering. Is that a pass through that I'm looking at?
Yes. Yeah, that's that's a stone pasture. So we've created essentially a forecast here that you would drive through to get into the motor court.
And the rationale really was just to try to hide the garages in that area of the home as best as possible from from the main entry corner and the street.
Yeah, the only thing I was thinking of was, I mean, doesn't really need to be a connecting or share there. Could it just be a separate entity detached in and of itself? Would that perhaps give the House itself a little more character?
Because it looks just a little awkward, but that's just a design. You could take it or leave it backwards. There are so many windows. I mean, there really are a lot of points, as we say. So I would just echo of Commissioner Gibson's sentiments that work just your neighbors makes your views on the screen, I think a lot. Well, it's completely what I did. I'm sure you'll take care of it this time.
That's it for me.
Thank you, Mr. Sperry. Mr. Levitsky, thank you.
Just have two questions. One of the the garage, the three car garage, the one that has the two cars together. Is that a is it a true single, the garage doors or a double?
It's it's it's a double door designed to look like two individual carriage doors.
Ok, yes. And then Jen, standard 15 about this wall that needs to be maintained, can you can you explain it? Because you have this very strong sentence of almost know, like John F. Kennedy or somebody talking to the wall must be maintained and preserved.
How is that working? Is there a codicil in the contract that they have to keep the wall going?
So this so the wall is on the lower the southeast corner of the site, and that's actually located in the conservation easement.
So construction in the conservation easement would not be permitted.
So but that is a historic stone wall that that would need to be maintained as on the site as it exists.
Ok, so the owners of the home are bound to maintain that wall.
That is that is Jeff's understanding, Kathy, if you have anything to add to that.
There is a covenant on the planet of subdivision that requires that wall to be maintained.
Ok, thank you.
Forgive me if this question came up before, but what's the reasoning behind not censoring the the front door?
That it really has the relationship to the floor plan and allowing the views when you walk in the front door to be able to see all the way through the home. That's really the main driver. We felt like that the most important aspect was to have this central front porch be centered. And we were less concerned about the front door being centered as that architecture. The door would be a door. So that would pop when you when you actually hit the steps of the front porch.
Ok, now I'll I'll throw in comments related to the comment section, but you asking my question. Thank you very much. And I don't have any other additional questions. So everybody's been very thorough in their questioning.
So with that, we will wait and see if any questions come in on the phone or in writing.
Airman Greive, we have no callers, and I believe there's the number eight four seven.
Eight one zero thirty six. Forty three.
I see no hands raised and no comments. We'll give it a moment or two.
Chairman Greive, I think you can proceed, no comments.
Thank you, Cathy. All right. With that, it comes back to our discussion commentary. So let's start off with Commissioner Gibson.
Ok, wonderful. Congratulations. Welcome to our town. We love to have you. And be nice to have somebody live on this property. I love the Chinese Chippendale pattern on the second floor. The I think I would I would eliminate the transoms only because I don't think they fit. I would actually I would I would eliminate the bag. I would have colonial revival, very balanced. I would just eliminate the bay. And actually, bay windows are tough to maintain.
They always give you problems at some point. The S.
S windows, I think the sizes I would make certain that you keep your in keeping with the narrow windows there and you do have a lot of windows. That's why you really don't need transoms. I would watch out for the fourteen ninety homeowner to make certain in terms of vegetation that they are protected and because there's going to be a lot of activity around the backyard and I can understand the historic wall. Thorpdale is an important part of our lives here. And welcome to the neighborhood. Good luck.
Ok, thank you, Commissioner Levinsky.
Not much that I would support staff's view of the windows, otherwise, it's a beautiful home. Best of luck in it.
Thanks very much, Commissioner Pettitt.
I'm going to just follow along with my other commissioners, I think.
Oh, but look at the windows to make sure that there's the consistency and I again, like the cemetery attitude, the front, and I think it's a beautifully designed home. And welcome to the neighborhood.
Thank you, Commissioner Gale.
Well, I want to support all the things that have been said. I gather you've already got roots here, but welcome back to Lake Forest or welcome to this new neighborhood. I think the house is a lovely house. I would I would agree with the theme of white in a snow covered field issue. You might look at that again, but it's a very, very lovely house. I think the staff's comment on the windows is to be I support your reconsideration of that and also finding consistency on the windows. And I would on the bay window issue, I would say I go for symmetry, but I like Jan, Commissioner Gibson. I would be happy with no bay window.
So but with we're seeking the goal of symmetry. Thanks very much, Commissioner Sperry.
And no, for their parents, just echoing my fellow commissioners sentiments were thrilled that you bought this a lot of information and I can't wait to see it.
Thank you, Commissioner.
And a lot of comments were already made. I I love so many things about this. This is my proposal and thank you for working with the city staff and being open to some of the new ideas, because I'm sure that's what got you to a great place today. Love the Pennsylvania Field Stone. I tend to agree with a couple of the commissioners on the balance with the bay. I would my first thought for consideration is considered losing the bag for the spirit of symmetry. I personally love the light because of the contrast and the shadow lines that you're going to get with the Pennsylvania field stone. And I also think because this lot is so heavily wooded that you can handle, quite frankly, that white and you'll get that contrast against the greenery in the summer. And so I think it's just just fantastic love the crosshairs of so many things about it. Just to comment on the transoms, I do. You know, Commissioner Gibson mentioned consider using the transoms. I do wonder if you start to lose some of the vertical effect of what you have going on here with the porch light, if that's going to force you to want to pull the porch down, which I think then throws off the proportion of the overall home. So I just think you've got to be careful. I think you should consider both ways. But I love the the proportions that you have for the vertical and horizontal, as it's designed today, quite supportive of this this proposal.
Thanks very much. Well, this one's an easy summary. Clearly, everyone is supported and you've done a wonderful job in the design. I'll just do a combination of recap and some of my comments. You've heard a lot about the windows. And on the front, I think the best way I can summarize it is just revisit the the use of the transoms. But in coordination with the comment that was just made from Commissioner Lamontagne about the verticality that you have there now, which is a nice line, and it does compliment the design of the home. So the question is, how do you best accomplish that? Do you want to separate that or is there some way to run a compromise and just have a longer, narrower window space there? The other and also the amount of windows in the back just to take a look at that again. The other is in terms of symmetry, I'm far from an expert on colonial revival, but of all the homework that I can do, if there's one thing that ran through everywhere, and it's not that you have to be a thousand percent true to the exact way it was done or mostly done in the day, so to speak. But symmetry really is kind of the hallmark of colonial revival and you have it there. So I would just say that whether you have the bump out, I didn't see many examples of bump outs at all with and colonial revival, but that doesn't mean you can't do it. I think it's it's probably a nice feature from the interior. So it's certainly something that if you really like it, then I would match it on the other side.
But the comment made in terms of simplicity and it's just a wonderful clean design because you have so many other wonderful design elements in the home, I don't think it makes the house look plain by any means by not having it. So I just think it's something that you might want to revisit and decide. But it seems as though everybody's encouraging the symmetry there. And the only other thing is it's definitely not a make it or break it. But again, back to the cemetery. And I understand your point about the door being offset. And maybe it's not a big deal because what you've done is you've centered the entranceway. But again, if you go online and look at a lot of colonial revivals, they go the other direction that they put extra emphasis on that centre, even if it's a larger entryway. So an example would be like you do the the double columns on the far side, they would actually double column in the centre and make sure the centre seemed a little more prominent of the entire space to draw extra attention to the centre in the door. And the other thing to think about is when people come to visit, you're going to light up their front door. So dusk to dawn, to the degree that you light up that space, you're going to draw attention to that asymmetry. So I understand what you're saying is that you think it's softened because it's that the door and you don't notice it much in a day, you'll notice it much more so. But there's always a balance there. And I know you have interior considerations that you've brought up, but I you might want to just, again, revisit that. Beyond that, everybody loves the materials.
I don't think there are any special comments there and impervious surfaces.
I think you're in good shape there. So I don't have anything to add to that. So if I missed something, somebody can bring it up. But I think we're ready for emotion.
Anyone I know late? Did I see your hand, Commissioner Gail?
You're on your unmuted. It's OK, we all do it, myself included, plenty of times. So I can't hear you try again.
Sorry about that. No problem.
So I move that we get a certificate of appropriateness for the new residents at ninety five Robinson Drive subject, along with the modified by the conditions indicated in the staff report, which specifies a review of windows and several points about Windows and makes other conditions on pages five and six of the staff report.
I think I'm done great and including comments that were made during the summary remarks and comments made during the discussion as well.
Great, wonderful. Wait a second. All right. Plenty of those. All right, Jennifer.
All right. Starting with Commissioner Gibson, I.
Commissioner Petitt, High Commissioner Sperry, I.
Commissioner Gail I, Commissioner Lamontagne I, Commissioner Levitsky, yes, and Chairman grief and the motion passes. Thank you.
All right. Congratulations again. Welcome. It's going to be very much. All right. Have a good night with that, general. Ask if there are any. Well, if the public wants to address any other issues or, Jennifer, any other agenda items before we motion to adjourn, there are no other agenda items and great motion.
I have a question. Yes, sir.
Do you not have to up the committee subcommittee?
Oh, we don't have to do that now. OK, all right. That'll definitely happen. OK. All right, thanks. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye second. And I thank you all and thank you very much. All right.
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