us vs freedom final.mp3

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Speaker1:
Sonic boom.

Nick Capodice:
You know that music, Hannah?

Hannah McCarthy:
I do.

Nick Capodice:
That is Guile's Theme from Street Fighter 2 which a clever listener pointed out I misidentified in an earlier episode as the character selection music.

Hannah McCarthy:
Wow, this listener really knows their street fighter.

Nick Capodice:
You might say it's in their ken Hannah. So if we are indeed flying around the globe battling a green mutant from Brazil and a masked bullfighter from Spain, you know it is time for another us versus or us versus where we see how United Staters measure up to the rest of the world. You're listening to Civics 101, by the way. I'm Nick Capodice.

Hannah McCarthy:
I'm Hannah McCarthy.

Nick Capodice:
And today we are measuring something that seems immeasurable. Freedom.

Speaker4:
Freedom and fear. Justice and cruelty have always been at war. Let's not forget.

Speaker5:
That freedom is more powerful than fear.

Ian Vasquez:
One of those constructive forces is the enhancement of individual human freedoms. I've always liked George Orwell's blunt and unadorned statement. He said. Freedom is the right to say no.

Hannah McCarthy:
Now, Nick, how do you propose we measure freedom?

Nick Capodice:
An excellent question. Now we have done many episodes on to whom freedoms do or do not apply throughout our long history. I'm talking the Declaration Revisited, the 19th Amendment. The Bill of Rights, links to all of those in the show notes. This episode being a US versus, a series that we do from time to time, I'm just going to focus on the state of freedom right now, and my game plan is I'm going to do sort of like a 30,000 foot view of freedom generally. And then in the second half, I'm going to dive into one freedom in particular, specifically the freedom of the press, because, you know, that's us. But to your question, how can we assess freedom?

Ian Vasquez:
We measure 83 distinct indicators and in broad categories of freedom in the 165 countries.

Nick Capodice:
That is Ian Vasquez, vice president for international studies at the Cato Institute and coauthor of the Human Freedom Index.

Hannah McCarthy:
The Cato Institute is a think tank in D.C., though, right? Can you just give a quick summary of what think tanks are, what they do?

Nick Capodice:
Sure. Think tanks are research institutes that hire experts to study certain topics. And this is the important part. Advocate for policy. We're talking like the RAND Corporation, the Brookings Institution and the Heritage Foundation, for example. Some think tanks are nonpartisan and others promote particular political positions. And the Cato Institute creates a presence for and promotes libertarian ideas in policy debates.

Hannah McCarthy:
Small l, libertarian, so generally less government. So they do have a point of view?

Nick Capodice:
Absolutely.

Hannah McCarthy:
Okay. So what is the Human Freedom Index?

Nick Capodice:
It's a report. It's about 500 pages. It comes out every year. And what it does is it measures specific indicators of a nation's freedom. This report is the source for the annual news pieces that come out, seeing how one country or another has climbed or slipped in the rankings around the world.

Speaker8:
Round the world, we hear cries for freedom. Some nations have a lot of it, some do not. Now, when it comes to freedom, where does Canada rank? Joining me now from Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Ian Vasquez:
The Human Freedom Index is a global measurement of of personal, civil and economic freedoms. What we look at are things like the rule of law or safety and security or freedom of expression or freedom of association or freedom to trade internationally. Whether a country has sound money or not, that's a that's an economic freedom. And so when we put together the data that we get from third parties, whether it be the World Bank or the United Nations or universities and reputable third party sources, and put them together, we create this this index of human freedom that we believe gives a reasonably accurate picture of the state of global freedom and the state of freedom within countries.

Hannah McCarthy:
They take data from third parties measuring 83 indicators of freedoms, and they turn that into a score. Exactly. Before you tell me that score, do Ian and the people who make this index have a working definition of what freedom itself is?

Ian Vasquez:
That's a very good question because of course everybody has their own definition of freedom. George Bush had his definition of freedom. Al Qaeda has his definition of freedom. Hugo Chavez has his definition of freedom. Ours is a very simple definition, and it's the absence of coercive constraint. The idea that you can lead your life the way that you want as long as you respect the equal rights of others. And so that's the working definition that we use when we look at things like freedom of religion or freedom of the press and so on.

Hannah McCarthy:
So don't bury the lead here Capodice, how did the US do in the latest rankings?

Nick Capodice:
Well, we did okay, but to be honest, we have done better.

Ian Vasquez:
In the year 2000, the United States ranked number six out of 165 countries. In our latest index, which comes which covers the year 2020, it ranks 23.

Hannah McCarthy:
23rd place.

Nick Capodice:
I don't even know if they give you a ribbon for 23rd.

Hannah McCarthy:
Who does score higher than us? Which countries do allow people to live their lives as they wish as long as they respect the rights of others?

Ian Vasquez:
Well, I mean, the top performers do have high scores across the board in in in personal and economic freedoms so that you just name the top ten so that you have a sense of them. That's Switzerland, New Zealand, Estonia, Denmark, Ireland, Sweden, Iceland, Finland, the Netherlands and and Luxembourg.

Nick Capodice:
One thing you might notice about the current top ten, Hannah, nine out of these ten are European countries. However, if you go just a little further down the list.

Ian Vasquez:
If you look at the top quartile, you start to get a little bit more of a of a variety. It's not just some of the countries you would suspect would be the freest. It includes former socialist countries. I mean, the top ten already includes one Estonia, which is really a top performer, but it includes also Asian countries like Taiwan and Japan. Korea, of course, it includes a couple of Latin American countries like Chile at 32, Uruguay at 36. It shows what I think is world progress over the long run of freedom spreading.

Hannah McCarthy:
So given that this report ranks us at 23rd, what does that mean for us? The word freedom is in our national anthem. It's in our Bill of Rights. It's used in just about every State of the Union address. And so many aspirational messages like political ads. Should we pump the brakes a little? Should we change how we talk about ourselves?

Nick Capodice:
Ian says yes and no so.

Ian Vasquez:
We can say that it's still among the freest nations in the world, certainly in the top quartile. But I don't think that we can say that the United States is a bastion of liberty, as a lot of Americans would like to think of the United States in those terms. And I think a lot of the world has traditionally thought of the United States in those terms. I don't think we can say that anymore. And so, in a way, the United States parallels what's gone on in the world. But but as one of the most important nations, certainly with a big impact in the rest of the world, the loss of freedom in the United States is very worrisome.

Hannah McCarthy:
Does Ian say what has caused this decline? Which of those 83 indicators are lowering our score?

Ian Vasquez:
The area that deteriorates most significantly during this period of time is the rule of law.

Nick Capodice:
The rule of law being that laws are stable and they apply equally to everyone.

Ian Vasquez:
And that's particularly worrisome because of course so many freedoms depend on a good rule of law and that deterioration in the United States is more pronounced than in other countries. And what we think is going on there over the past couple of decades is, is that that's a result of the war on terror, the wars that are going that had been going on or were initiated during that time period abroad, the war on drugs, the weakening of property rights in the United States.

Nick Capodice:
We've talked a lot about property recently on the show, Hannah, But to recap, if you're a person experiencing poverty, you are significantly more likely to be affected by a government construction project, for example.

Hannah McCarthy:
Right. The use of things like eminent domain. This is where the government can claim private property to promote economic or social development. It's got critics on both sides of the aisle. The person who owns an apartment building is compensated, but not the people who live in it. They just have to find somewhere else to live.

Ian Vasquez:
The financial crisis also weakened people's confidence in the rule of law, partially because of the way that the government responded in so many ad hoc and arbitrary ways, seemingly favoring some well connected industries and and even companies. There was this perception, which I think is correct, of the sort of the rise of cronyism, which of course, is absolutely contrary to the rule of law. And that coincides with the rise of populism in the United States with the rise of Trump and populism and the Democratic Party, where the the the narrative is, hey, guys, the rules of the game are rigged. You can't trust them. You can only trust me. You know, this is only a strong man can can, can fix things in the system. The institutions aren't good. Look at this judge with his first name and his last name. And look at this journalist. He's he's also look at all of the media. It's all corrupt. I mean, I myself have serious criticisms of some of the media and so on. But you can't just undermine facts or an entire set of institutions because you disagree with something or you have legitimate criticisms.

Nick Capodice:
Ian says that one category in the index has dramatically lowered in the last two years not just in the US but worldwide. And it is freedom of movement.

Hannah McCarthy:
Now, is this tied to the COVID 19 pandemic?

Nick Capodice:
Absolutely. Directly tied.

Ian Vasquez:
There were severe restrictions at the local level. At the national level. I mean, international travel just came to a stop. It was basically forbidden international movement of people. So much economic activity was basically forbidden. People in many parts of the world were essentially prohibited from even leaving their houses for long periods of time. So this was a severe limitation on freedom.

Nick Capodice:
And to be clear, Hannah, this report is not a criticism or an endorsement of specific COVID protocols. This is just an assessment.

Ian Vasquez:
We're just measuring what's happening. We're not saying that under certain conditions and and during certain times this measure or that measure is justified or not justified. I mean, certainly the the autocratic regimes of the world used COVID restrictions or COVID as a as a pretext to crack down on their opponents and on their own citizens in ways that would have been harder for them to get away with had it not been for COVID.

Speaker10:
Rights groups accuse Mr. Erdogan of using the crisis to tighten his grip on power, critics say. Another example of the pandemic giving the government more control in a series of moves that could lead to instability.

Hannah McCarthy:
This report, Nick. Honestly, to me, it's a little bit bleak. Are there any areas where we are doing well freedom wise?

Nick Capodice:
Yeah, there are. And I don't want to be all doom and gloom today. There is an area we most certainly could improve on, but comparatively is quite strong and that is the freedom of the press. But before we talk about it, we've got to take a quick break.

Hannah McCarthy:
And before that break, just a reminder that Nick and I write a fun filled grab bag newsletter every other week. I imagine Nick will put a link to the full Human Freedoms Index in the next one. That newsletter is called Extra Credit, and you can sign up at our website, civics101podcast.org.

Nick Capodice:
And while you're there, please consider making a donation to support the show. It means an awful lot to us.

Hannah McCarthy:
We're back. We're talking comparative freedom. And before the break, Nick, you said that you were going to get into the freedom that's near and dear to my heart. The Fourth Estate.

Nick Capodice:
That's right. Me too. Hannah Now that we've done sort of a general freedom overview, I'm going to focus just on this one. A deep dive into the freedom of the press.

Speaker8:
Freedom of information. Is a fundamental human right and the touchstone of all the freedoms to which the United Nations is consecrated.

Hannah McCarthy:
How do we measure that?

Jenifer Whitten-Woodring:
I'm glad you asked that, because as someone you used to teach a lot of research methods, courses, I always tell my students, you cannot use a measure unless you understand how you've defined what it is the measure purports to be measuring.

Nick Capodice:
This is Jenifer Whitten-Woodring, political scientist and dean of the Honors College at UMass Lowell. She is also the coauthor of The Historical Guide to World Media Freedom, a country by Country Analysis.

Jenifer Whitten-Woodring:
We were gathering data for every available country going back to 1948. So it was a huge project, and we needed a measure that was a measure and a definition that was simple. So the way that we define it is the ability of journalists to criticize the government about issues that really matter, issues that if people were to become aware of them, people would become so upset potentially that they would call for the leader to be overthrown. So think along the lines of the Watergate scandal and President Nixon

Speaker1:
Nixon again and again last week, observers in the courtroom were heard to say, you know, the White House could be telling the truth, but nobody will ever believe it. Fred Graham, CBS News, Washington.

Hannah McCarthy:
If that's Jenifer's metric for measuring press freedom, how did the United States do?

Jenifer Whitten-Woodring:
So using that definition, I would say the US hasn't budged very much over time. And that's that might come as a surprise to people. But when you think about it, journalists in the US have been able to criticize government about issues that really matter, and that hasn't really gone away even under Donald Trump when there was this quite a bit of well, he described it as a media war, right? But journalists were critical of him and he was critical of them.

Speaker1:
You know, you're a fake. You know that your whole network, the way you cover it, is fake. And most of you and not all of you, but the people are wise to you. That's why you have a lower a lower approval rating than.

Jenifer Whitten-Woodring:
But even so, journalists were able to criticize President Trump and they are able to criticize President Biden about issues that really mattered. Now, the degree to which they do so is contested. They don't have to do it in order for the press to be considered free, but they have to have the potential to do it. So it's all about the potential to criticize government about issues that really matter.

Nick Capodice:
I just want to jump in here, Hannah, with a quick grain of salt because not everyone agrees with Jenifer's assessment. Reporters Without Borders, which is a non-governmental organization that aims to maintain freedom of information around the world, ranks the US 42nd in press freedom.

Jenifer Whitten-Woodring:
42 below Burkina Faso and Moldova and the Ivory Coast and South Africa. I don't agree with that assessment. I don't agree that the US should be below Burkina Faso or Moldova for that matter. I think it's somewhat political with Reporters Without Borders. They are one of those agencies that really focuses on media infractions. So there's a lot of coverage of nasty things that happen in the US and, you know, things that political leaders are saying that are that might discredit the media a little too much. So I think that's that's kind of what we're seeing there.

Hannah McCarthy:
Jenifer disagrees with that low ranking from Reporters Without Borders, but that's because she measures different things than them.

Nick Capodice:
Yeah, the index from Reporters Without Borders measures infractions more than, you know, successes. But it cites information, chaos and severe polarization, both weakening the freedom of the press and both objectively on the rise over the last few years.

Hannah McCarthy:
Okay. Do you have an example of a country that's maybe similar to us in terms of political structure, but does press freedom differently?

Nick Capodice:
Sure do.

Jenifer Whitten-Woodring:
Let's look of India, right? So like the US, a large democracy, but unlike the US, there are substantial limitations on media freedom. First of all, in India you cannot get news on the radio unless it's from the government controlled radio.

Speaker1:
This is all in. Radio giving you the news for quick news updates round the clock. Follow us on our Twitter handle at EIR news alerts.

Jenifer Whitten-Woodring:
Now, newspapers are fairly free to print whatever they want, Television also reasonably free to broadcast whatever they want. But there is this limitation on radio, which I think is fascinating. But radio, if you think about it, is the most accessible form of media. You don't have to read. You don't have to afford a computer. You don't have to you know, you don't have to have a television. You don't necessarily have to have a television signal. Radio signals easier to get.

Nick Capodice:
And Jenifer said that India is not alone, that in those countries where the government controls some aspects of the media and not others, radio is typically the first one they try to regulate. Because if you live in a rural area, radio is more accessible than television. And there are so many jobs where you can listen to the radio while you work, but you can't look at a TV or stare at your phone.

Hannah McCarthy:
All right. Speaking of government controlled radio, I didn't think we'd have to get into it, Nick, but I now think we got to get into it. Yeah.

Speaker1:
Wednesday, the Twitter owner targeting National Public Radio via his social media giant. He likens NPR with state controlled media similar to Russia Today or Xinhua in China.

Nick Capodice:
Early April 2023, Elon Musk added the label state affiliated media to the Twitter account label of NPR, National Public Radio. Hannah, you and I work for NPR, New Hampshire Public Radio, which is not a part of NPR.It's what's called a member station, meaning we air NPR content on our station, along with local news and programs like us. Musk has since said that label, quote, might not be accurate, end quote. And as of this recording, April 17th, 2023, that label has been changed to government funded media. In response, NPR is no longer providing content on Twitter and many public radio stations around the country, including ours, NHPR, have followed suit. But I got to say, regardless of how you feel about public radio, the fact is that funding comes from grants. And to throw a number out at you in 2020, these grants accounted for less than 0.1% of NPR's total revenue. And while we're at it, while we're talking government funding, it might be worth mentioning here that, like a lot of American corporations, Elon Musk's companies have received many billions of dollars in government subsidies over the last 20 years.

Hannah McCarthy:
All right. Thank you for getting that out of the way.

Nick Capodice:
Yep.

Nick Capodice:
If anybody wants to learn more about that, get something off your chest, ask some questions, drop us a line [email protected]. Because while the government has no say whatsoever in what we do here You listener, your questions do define what topics we cover on the show. You don't even have to make a donation.

Hannah McCarthy:
Okay. I'm glad that Jenifer feels that freedom of the press is strong in the US. Specifically according to her metric that we are able to criticize the government, But that ranking from Reporters Without Borders is worrisome. How could we do better when it comes to freedom of the press?

Jenifer Whitten-Woodring:
It's touchy, though, right? Because media journalists are very dependent on political and economic and powerful people. Generally speaking, those leaders, we need them as journalists to get our information for our stories. I'm using the Wii because I used to be a journalist, so I'm very well aware of what it's like to try to interview a public official. And they won't talk to you. Or what if your public official just doesn't hold any news briefings or news conferences? And we've seen that in the US, right? So access to information is always going to be a challenge. So we could improve journalists access to information for sure.

Nick Capodice:
The other concerning issue we have with journalism in the US is something I think all of our listeners are aware of. It is a combination of a very polarized audience and commercial pressures.

Jenifer Whitten-Woodring:
News organizations have to make money. That's how they survive. Npr needs donations. Npr also gets donations from big benefactors too, right? You have to get an audience or you're not going to get the donations. Commercial radio, television, Internet sites. If you're a commercial, you have to get advertising revenue, and you can't get that if you don't have an audience. So the problem is now how do you get audience? That's what leads to a lot of sensational coverage. That's what leads to a lot of, I think, politicized coverage that we have. We've got Fox News demonizing Democrats. And frankly, MSNBC News is doing the same thing to Republicans. And, you know, there are some cases where the reporting on from MSNBC has been a little sloppy, quick to run with a story rather than check the facts as long as it makes a Republican leader look bad. And then we see Fox News now with the the case about the the elections and the contested elections and the results possibly just blatantly reporting information that they knew to be false. I think this is the commercial pressures are probably the biggest problem and the biggest threat to the quality of the news media that we have in the US.

Hannah McCarthy:
Nick, after talking to Jenifer and Ian, do you think there's any way the US could climb back up in the Freedom charts?

Nick Capodice:
I honestly don't have an answer to that, Hannah. Doing this episode left me with more questions than answers. All these indexes measure different things and freedom, which means so much to us, to our national identity. It's such a nebulous thing. Freedom for who, exactly? Your freedoms in the US vary depending on what year it is, what state you're in, the amount of money you have, your gender, the color of your skin, whether you're LGBTQ+ or not. And all we do here at Civics 101 is try to keep an eye on it all. Maybe I should just close all this out with some Aaron Sorkin. Hannah, a little clip from one of those shows that had a lot going for it and a lot against it. The Newsroom.

Ian Vasquez:
A straight face you're going to tell students that America is so star spangled awesome that we're the only ones in the world who have freedom. Canada has freedom. Japan has freedom. The UK, France, Italy, Germany, Spain, Australia, Belgium has freedom. So 207 sovereign states in the world, like 180 of them have freedom...

Nick Capodice:
That’s a little bit on freedom today, this episode was made my me Nick Capodice with you Hannah McCarthy. Christina Phillips is our senior producer, Rebecca Lavoie our Executive Producer, Jacqui Fulton our producer. Music in this episode by ryan kilkenny, timothy infinite, flux vortex, sven lindvall, xavy rusan, lobo loco, howard harper barnes, patrick patrikios, yung kartzx, twin musicom, yoko shimamura, and that makes the good music free, chris zabriskie. Civics101 is a production of NHPR, New Hampshire Public Radio.

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