Ep 28_Preventative Care for PMDD_Elana Gloger.mp3
Ep 28_Preventative Care for PMDD_Elana Gloger.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Ep 28_Preventative Care for PMDD_Elana Gloger.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Emily:
Hello there. I'm a final year PhD candidate and your host, Emily King. Whether you're a return or new listener, thank you. And welcome to Voices of Academia, a podcast where researchers from around the world open up about lived experience of mental health and illness. This is not professional advice. We aim to normalise difficult conversations, reduce stigma and help people feel less alone. Today we return to the US with fifth year health psychology PhD candidate and creator of the Dear Grad Student Podcast, Elana Gloger. She chats about premenstrual dysphoric disorder and maintaining wellness, creating space between where you're at and your tipping point to becoming unwell. She also encourages leaning into your unique needs and remembering that you're not other people. A super helpful reminder that I keep coming back to. Just a quick warning that today's episode contains a little bit of swearing and sexual references. You might not want your kids or your parents overhear this one. Let's get into it. Helena. Welcome back.
Elana:
Thank you. I'm so glad to be back and really excited to talk about this part of my journey, which I feel like is a little bit more hopeful.
Emily:
Yeah, definitely. That's why I quite like, you know, the way that voices of academia kind of started to, I guess, frame initially the blogs. And I've kind of used a similar format for the podcast because as much as it can be really helpful and I guess relatable to hear the difficult parts of the story, I think it's really important also to learn what helps different people manage. And it's been so like eye opening to see the so many different ways that people can support themselves, like from, you know, writing hip hop songs and dancing to like writing, you know, using creative writing as an outlet to kind of like change the way that your psychological experience is and how it impacts you. And, you know, it's yeah, I'm really keen to hear, you know, what you've learned to support yourself. So we yeah, as I mentioned in the last episode, we know each other, I guess through academic Twitter, through listening to each other's podcast episodes. So again, Elana is the host of Dear Grad Student, which is a really fantastic podcast talking about sort of all things grad school. She has made, I think, 58 episodes now?
Elana:
Something like that. By the time this comes out, I'll be in the sixties.
Emily:
So true. And she's got merch and she's doing some donations for a few different causes as well. So definitely go and check that out. We're doing a crossover episode, so when this episode comes out, you can hear Elana's. Actually, when this one comes out, you will have had the first part of Elana's story, and my one will be available on her Dear Grad Student podcast as well. If you want to hear a bit about my PhD experience linked below. So yeah, thank you again for for being willing to share your story and being willing to share some of what has helped support you similarly to last episode. I would love for people to sort of get to know a bit more about Elana, the person, rather than Elana, you know, the psych student or a lot of the podcaster. So let me know in your downtime, is there anything you're particularly kind of listening to or watching or reading that you're particularly enjoying at the moment?
Elana:
Okay. I just have to say I have loved your questions about my downtime because it's like 50% of me was the first answer and the rest of the 50% is everything I'm about to say. Most of my downtime is like spent watching shows or playing Planet Coaster, as I mentioned in the last episode, or walking and running outside and listening to audiobooks. So you have captured the my entire self completely. Yes. I have recently really gotten into audiobooks. I find that with grad school I get super burnt out from reading. I have no interest in reading for pleasure. I haven't read a book in years. Isn't that. It's just ridiculous to say, but I have not pleasure read a book in years. However, I listen to audiobooks to supplement that. So I'm I'm training for a half marathon right now and I've been really getting into spending some time walking or running through my favorite park. And I listen to the Outlander audiobooks. I fell in love with Outlander after watching the show. I think it's available on Starz, it's on Netflix in the US. I don't know if it's on Netflix in Australia, but there's time travel, it's a love story, it's historical, it's like all of my favorite things in one and the books are 1200 pages long is really, really long books. The audiobooks are like 40 to 50 hours. So I have a problem, but I am on middle of book five and it is such I have to say I said this recently on a podcast I was on called Anthropology. There's just something about listening to an older British woman reading an audiobook while running through the woods. That just does it for me, but that's like a huge self-care thing for me if I can like get my ass out of the house. I love listening to audiobooks and then TV shows. Huge binge watcher. So half of me is really into reality TV shows. Incredibly ashamed to say that one of my favorite shows of all time is Love Island. I'm obsessed. I've seen every single season. I've been walking through the Australia One's.
Emily:
Mines Too Hot to Handle which is...
Elana:
Oh my God, amazing! My partner and I are on season 38 of a 40 season binge of Survivor. What else? I've watched every single episode of America's Next Top model, my first year of grad school. I'm just like really into that and then really into shows like I mentioned Downton Abbey. I'm really into Lost, Handmaid's Tale. I mean, I just really get into like the dramatic, intense TV shows a lot more than comedies. But yeah, I love that shit.
Emily:
I love it. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. During lockdown I got obsessed with that. Too hot to handle and Selling Sunsets. And my partner, just like he, he can't handle it like it was. Like you walk in and see me watching something like that, and he's just like, oh my God. Like, I don't get it. You're such an intelligent person, and you watch this like trash. And I'm just like, Yeah, you know.
Elana:
About like, it's how I switch off, like, yeah, but that's that's exactly it is like I need the extreme opposite. Like, I need to counteract all the heavy brain work I do with like, negative brain energy. And that's how I do it. And I also think it like reminds me, this doesn't sound so dramatic. It like reminds me to be human. Like, we live in such a bubble of academia, of like these rules that do not exist in this, like, bubble of a world that matters to nobody. And just like watching reality TV shows and watching people who are now my age, which is horrifying, but like watching people my age doing absolutely nothing related to what I'm doing, just like being normal 25 year olds and up, like, fucking around. I'm like. That's me, too. You know, I'm like, I also have the capacity. I'm not choosing to do that, but like, you know what? Like, I could do that to I'm not going to, but like, we are the same and I am normal still. And none of this matters and I just love it.
Emily:
The other thing from your answer was that I just had this like vivid, like, visualization of, like, running through the woods and listening to a British lady.
Elana:
Like, I just. Yeah. Oh, I could, like, really paint that picture, but it's so soothing. And I'll say, like, it is somewhat of a romance novel. Like, there's some, like, very vividly described sex scenes in the book. Not often, but like it comes up because there's a love story involved and I just laugh while I'm running because this this it's a love story between a British woman and a Scottish guy. So you have to imagine there's this old British woman narrating and even during the sex scenes is switching back and forth between accents. And it's just like, so funny. I'm like, passing children, walking their dog, and she's like. Having aggressive Scottish sex. It's just like I just like it's so entertaining. Like, it doesn't even like it's not like that. I just mean it. It really holds my attention during a run to either be laughing and be like, Oh my God, I am listening to this in a park. And other people hear my thoughts like that is so weird versus like, just like explaining the view outside the cabin on the mountain side. And I'm like, I'm in a cabin, I'm on the mountainside and it keeps my heart rate down, right? Like I'm not good at running, so I need to stay as calm and chilled out as possible or super distracted with laughing and any in between. I end the runner fails.
Emily:
I can relate like laughing out loud on public transport like on my commute for for a period I was listening to. Did you ever hear the podcast my dad wrote a porno?
Elana:
Yes. That's my mentors favorite podcast.
Emily:
So for anyone that hasn't heard of it, like this guy's dad wrote a porno. And then the son started a podcast where he would like read chapters of the porno with some of his mates and like laugh about it and like pay out different parts of it. And just like it really blew up like so many people listening to that. But it was just so funny to like listen to that on my commute on the way in and yeah, just like crack up laughing and then I would like look around and be like, Oh my God.
Elana:
It's like that when I'm running. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's written beautifully. So there are some times when there are certain scenes and I'm like, Oh, like OC. And then most of the time I'm laughing at this older woman, narrating these younger people like having sex. And I'm laughing and I've started noticing people get get like freaked out when I make faces. Like when you're running towards somebody and your face changes dramatically and you burst out in like laughter while you're running, people get really freaked out by that, but then it kind of makes me like it more so it's like, really, it's a whole it's a whole thing. But that is a huge self care for me because like I totally, totally escape mentally and physically grad school like any pent up energy, like I have to let it out. We'll talk about that more too. And we talk about, like, managing symptoms. Like, that's been huge for me. Mm hmm.
Emily:
So the other question I had is, and this one kind of sometimes throws people, but do you have a bucket list? And if so, what's what's at the top of your bucket list?
Elana:
This is such a good question. I don't have a bucket list, which kind of feels ridiculous because I'm a very like dramatic, sentimental person. I mean, if there is a brand for people having a bucket list, like I'm at the top of that list, but I don't have one. I do have some things that I like really want to do in life. Like we talked a little bit about this in the last episode, but like, I really want to be a mom. I really want to foster cats. I have really found a love for cats since I started grad school again, as we talked about, I don't know if we were recording this. You know, I lost my cat last semester. He just passed away really suddenly. But it was my first pet that was mine. And I was afraid of cats. But where we got him and totally fell in love with cats and we had found a cat outside the summer who was just the love of my life. And it really feels good to nurture something that's not your own. So I'm wanting to put some more energy into that in the years to come. Obviously do some more travel. I think that's on everyone's bucket list. And I don't know, I feel like I should have a bucket list now. I've done a lot. I've done a lot of things. I mean, once you start a podcast, I feel like most things become less ridiculous in your mind. Yeah. So I don't know. I feel like I've caused a lot of girls.
Emily:
I feel like I've caused a lot of my guests to, like, question themselves and be like, Why don't I have a bucket list? I need to have a bucket list. What am I going to put on my bucket list?
Elana:
I know. And you know.
Emily:
Because I don't have one either.
Elana:
Okay, well, it's like COVID, too. It's like anything I was planning has like gone down the drain. So it's also like I have these, like, conceptual, abstract ideas of, like, general things I want to experience, but like, I feel like anything that I materialize is going to, like, cause another pandemic to hit. So it's like, not even worth like I should have these ideas of eventually. Yeah. And like, stick with it being that vague or else I feel like I'm just jinxing myself.
Emily:
Yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. It's been so hard to, like, plan forward. Like, I bought tickets to a music festival for the first time in ages. It's. It's in. Well, it will have been by the time this episode comes out, but we're experiencing like a huge surge in cases in Australia at the moment. Like the most we've had, we're having I think about 40,000 a day in my state, which for us is like a very, very new thing like within the last couple of weeks. So I think they're going to cancel this music festival, which is going to hurt so bad. But I have some other stuff coming up to look forward to. But yeah, it's been it's been really difficult to plan ahead. So I totally get that, you know, kind of just wanting to manage your expectations a little bit.
Elana:
Yeah, I don't want to set myself up for failure, you know, I don't want to be like, this would be great. And then being let down over and over and over again, something, you know, after two years, I'm like, No. Citations. This is great.
Emily:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just a quick social media shout out for those that might be unable to listen to the end. If anything, Elana shares today really resonates with you, and you'd like to sort of learn more about it or chat with her about it. You can get in touch with her on Twitter @Elana_Gloger and there'll be a link to that in the episode description. So just like I guess a quick recap of the last episode we spoke, Elana, about your premenstrual dysphoric disorder or PMDD and how it was pretty well controlled by birth control in high school. But then a shift in medication during your PhD led to it's kind of slow, but it sounds like quite dramatic return. And before recording, you sort of indicated that your advice for others would be to not be afraid to try medication. What you're experiencing is valid and try medication isn't weakness. So I had a couple of questions around that advice, and I understand a little bit more of where you're coming from now. After the last episode where you indicated that you're quite terrified of medication, you don't really like being out of control of your body. And I believe that's something that's quite relatable. But I mean, how did you react to the idea of needing to take medication for this?
Elana:
Yeah. So for me personally, it really just came down to I just kind of felt like I didn't have another choice but to explore this option. I'm a super stubborn person to the delight of my partner, and he never encouraged, like, you need to be on meds. Like it was never like a stigmatized comment like that, but I just needed to come to a point of acceptance. And this really speaks to the very end of last episode, which I really encourage everyone. Go listen to just about my point of moral failing. Like I needed to come to the point of me not being able to manage this myself isn't failure and it's okay that I'm struggling and it's okay that I can't control this. What's not okay is allowing myself to continue suffering and not exploring options that I have. So it really just came down to like. I kind of have to because it was affecting so many things around me that like it almost wasn't fair to my partner. That's kind of how I felt. So we had a big, like long sit down conversation one day where he was just really honest about how it was affecting him. It never came down to like, I'm going to have to break up with you if you don't handle this. But it was more just like he was sad. And I was like, Oh, like, that's terrible. That's horrible. Like a sad man. Wow. But he was just, like, sad, and it made him feel distant from me.
Elana:
And he felt helpless, just like I couldn't help myself. Like, there wasn't anything he could do either. And so my decision just came down to, like, I deserve to feel well, and I don't want to hurt my partner accidentally anymore. So it was really hard, but it was kind of funny because I had seen my gynecologist, so I saw her yearly, but she had never seen me during an episode of this. And so once I finally was like, I'm just going to talk to her about options. I was in the middle of one of my PMDD weeks, and she's she's a lovely I mean, she is so wonderful. I literally think that I was hysterically crying with her for 90 minutes at my appointment, and she sat with me the whole time and she was like, right there with me. And at the end when we had decided like, yes, medication, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, she was like, I don't know if this is validating for you, but she was like, I just want you to know that I definitely do think that you still have this. Like it didn't go away after high school. And I was like, I know, I know. She's like, I just, like, really think you do. And I was like, okay, thanks. Like, I'm not crazy. She's like, No, no, no. You have this. Yeah. And I mean, it's just like. I just had to try something else.
Emily:
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Can relate to that one. So it does bring up a point. So about treatment. So I know you mentioned in the last episode that birth control, I guess can be helpful. Saris, lifestyle, exercise, nutrition. From your understanding, I guess aside from these or perhaps you can elaborate on them a bit more, what are some of the common treatments for PMDD? And I guess have you tried any of them other than what you've already mentioned?
Elana:
Yes, I have. So there's sort of like three categories, I would say, of options. And ironically, these are going to be really similar to like depression or anxiety, but they just work a little bit different and they act a little bit different, I would say. So the first one would be like the therapy option, right? Where it's sort of like you really work through cognitive behavioral therapy to like know when the pattern is arising, try to set up yourself as best you can for those two weeks you work on. I was getting really good at being like Today is a PMDD day. I'm just going to do what my body needs, unfortunately, because I had that for two weeks, I couldn't do that for two weeks. So that started to become like, Yeah, I could really just lead into self care, but like I can't work for days at a time and that wasn't realistic. So there's, there's a lot of skills you can use and especially when it's more mild, like you might expect somebody who just has PMS, right? So like some irritability, like our bodies living up to our period are going through a lot. So you might imagine like you let yourself have Chipotle on a tough night and you watch a favorite movie and you just let people around, you know, that you're struggling and things like that. That is one route for PMDD and it does work for some people. The second route is the medication route, and this is wild. Here's why. I guess, like someone assigned to this problem right now.
Emily:
This is like body language.
Elana:
Oh, my God. Literally, it's going to blow my mind. Like I'm still fascinated by it. The reason that SSRIs work for PMDD actually is not the same as why they work for depression or anxiety. We are not sure why SSRIs work for PMDD and they don't work the same. So, you know, with like depression, they say SSRI can take like 2 to 4 weeks before you feel a difference with PMDD. Ssris interact with progesterone, which is one of the hormones that they think causes a lot of the symptoms for PMDD or I should say, a sensitivity to progesterone. So I think that what my gynecologist told me is that the SSRI is bind to something that sort of blocks this like progesterone surge that we experience. And so with PMDD, you experience relief in like 6 to 12 hours because it is immediately doing that. So the first day so I take Zoloft, the recommended dose is 50 milligrams. There've been a few clinical trials, it's FDA approved. So the US that's like the Food and Drug Administration like our government has approved this for treatment and it cost me a dollar a month. So considering the US health care system, sure, I'll try it.
Emily:
It's amazing.
Elana:
I know. So super low dose of this SSRI and that's really the only medication that they know that works that is really used. In fact, other medications for depression like Wellbutrin has a totally different sort of mechanism of action, if you will, in the brain and has absolutely no effect for PMDD. So it's not like, oh, depression meds can be used for PMDD. It's something specific about SSRI is that affect symptoms and they're still learning about why just as they are for many conditions. So I'm on Zoloft, take 50 milligrams, I take it daily when I first started taking it. Here's the other thing that blew my mind. A lot of people take it cyclically, so they will take it for two weeks and then they stop taking it for two weeks and they'll take it for two weeks and stop. Because once you have your period, you literally don't need it anymore. I started that way and I loved it, but I had some side effects from SSRIs and SSRI can delay your period. So because I was already on an IUD and don't really bleed, I had a really hard time being like, Am I ovulating? Is this a period like what? Where am I in my cycle? So for that reason I now take it regularly. And so that's the medication route.
Elana:
The last route is like I want to call it like the Reddit route. And the reason I want to call it that is I have seen so many suggestions from people and they have like a whole wiki page on like different things. But like there are people that really recommend like taking magnesium and like different things that I do think there's like medical evidence for. But I never went down that route. Like I never went down the supplement route, but that's a super legitimate science backed route for PMDD. I just haven't gone down it so I know less about it, but it is readily acceptable on Reddit if you ever even just googled it. So anyone listening who was curious. So there's really those three routes but medication. For me it was a 0 to 100 difference. I got prescribed ahead of panic attack the whole day. Total mental breakdown holding this little blue pill before I could convince myself to take it. I took it and I felt immediately better in an hour and was like, I'm so mad at myself. Why did I wait to do this? And yeah, it's been a wild ride. Something I want to say about what you said earlier as well, even I know I've been talking for a very long time.
Emily:
Go for it.
Elana:
As you you mentioned, like being afraid of medication is a common experience. And like for me, it's this thing of not even just not wanting to be in control of my body, but feeling trapped. Like once you take a medication, you're going to feel those effects until your body metabolizes it. And so like I get worried of, like, if I don't like the effects, I'm stuck until my body metabolizes it. And I was just like, almost like a claustrophobic feeling, like it took me a really long time to get over that. And if that's you I see, you and I recognize and I did have side effects and I was still okay. So I just wanted to share that briefly as well.
Emily:
Yeah. Thank you. So yeah, so I guess we've talked about how switching your birth control during a PhD led to your day slowly coming back. And that was sort of exacerbated by the pandemic. The question totally understandable. The question I had was at what point did you realize you might need some help? And I know you mentioned in the last episode that your partner had noticed the impact that this was having on you and it was having an impact on him. So he approached you and indicated he noticed you really been suffering. Was that the point? You knew you needed help or was there something else in there?
Elana:
No, I really do think that was my moment. I mean, I was in denial for a really long time. You know, again, this had been controlled for like six or seven years. And I really held this belief that I was smart enough, strong enough, whatever, to manage this. And it wasn't a big deal and it's fine. And I just avoided it for so long because I just really didn't want something to be wrong with me and I really didn't want to start on this path of figuring it out, which could lead to failure. And I was like, I don't have time to deal with this. Like I'm in grad school. I just want to focus on that. Like, why do I have to put energy into this? Like, it's fine. I'm fine, it's fine. It's I'm fine. So when Luke started coming, I mean, you know, first off, it was creating arguments in our relationship that had never existed and nothing about our lives had changed. In fact, they were only improving our first two years of living where we live now. He worked a job from 3:00 in the morning to noon. He never got sleep. He was depressed. And when my PMDD was peaking, he had quit that job. He went back to nursing school and now he's working a job that he loves making like four times as much money. And that's when we were fighting. You know, it was one of those things where, like, you kind of look at like, at what point did I realize maybe this is me? So once the argument started happening that had never come up before and noticing how absolutely confused he was in those arguments, like it wasn't a mutual argument, you know what I mean? Like it was very one sided and that confused me more and it was that I don't want to call it a come to Jesus moment, but it was like that realization that this partner who is like very introverted, if anyone's listened, I have an episode with him on my podcast.
Elana:
Actually, it was my one year anniversary episode where he sat down. And. Did you listen to it? I did, yeah. He's very quiet. I mean, he's like soft spoken, like he's introverted and he just says what he needs and he's concise and I'm not. So for him to take time and be like, I really need to say this and I really mean it. Like, he doesn't waste words. I was like, Whoa. It just impacted me. Obviously, he was very kind about it, but it just became very real that like the person who like, you know, in some ways, like your partner always enables you a little bit. Right. So like if the person who is like more than anyone else going to enable bad habits is like sitting me down and being like Nothing is okay, it's time to listen. And I think what got me most, which is kind of sad, is that was most affected by how much it affected him. And I look back and I feel sad about that because I'm like, I don't know why me suffering was okay, but when he was like, I'm struggling, I was like, Wow, I don't want to hurt my partner. Which is also why I'm like kind of on this journey of self-love and why I keep repeating that people deserve to feel well, because it was it was him suffering that I was like, That's not fair, and I don't want this relationship to break down because I'm stubborn. Mm hmm.
Emily:
It seems to be a common thing. Right? And that's why I guess they have that saying of, like, treat yourself like you would treat someone you love, because a lot of us don't do that. For some reason, I don't know if it's like developmental conditioning or if it's that to do with societal, you know, kind of development. I don't know what it is, but yeah, I think a lot of us can relate to that and needing to learn to be a bit more self compassionate and look after our inner being and prioritize that. So what did that process of getting help look like? I guess, at that point? So you'd had that conversation with Luke. What happened then?
Elana:
Yeah, ironically, I was due for my next appointment with my gynecologist and I didn't have a primary care at the time because I was able to see my pediatrician until I was like 23 and I had been like two years. And I'm like, Man, it's fine. I do have one now.
Emily:
So that's like a general practitioner. Is it like a general doctor?
Elana:
Yes, yeah. Gp Yep. So I just didn't have one. And you know, they're not free here. It's like not I don't know how it is with you all, but it depends.
Emily:
It's like a whole thing.
Elana:
Yeah, it's a whole thing. I do have one now and I have high blood pressure. Love that for me. But I didn't at the time. So my gynecologist was like the only doctor I was seeing yearly. And she and I had already talked about the fact that I have PMDD, but every time I saw her, I was like, It's so well managed. Like, I'm the poster child of like it gets better. And so when I went to the appointment and I was a fucking mess, go, got it. And I feel so bad this, you know, I don't know if they have this with you all, but the university I go to has a teaching hospital and that's where my doctor is out of. And they're like, Is it okay if the resident does the like interview part and then, you know, your gynecologist will come in and like talk to you about stuff if you need to talk to us stuff. And I was like, sure. And this like first year male resident, poor, poor guy. First off, I was sitting there. I eventually I started crying because I have no emotional control. I'm like crying, I'm snotty and I'm sad educating him on PMDD as I tell him what's wrong with me. He's like, Well, have you tried birth control? And I was like, Maybe you should let her come like you're doing. So I was like, This isn't you, it's me.
Elana:
But we need to I need we need to read the chart, bro. Like, he was so nice, but he. And then it was like he walked out of the room and they were like in the sort of in between walking in to see me part. And he was sort of giving a report to her and she was educating him on PMDD. And like basically everything I had said, he would be like, Yeah, she said this and she'd be like, Yeah, that's true. Here's more detail over and over and over again. And you know, she came in and yeah, we just talked for like an hour and we talked about different medication choices and what it would be like and my options and we started with like super low dose. Let's start with the every two weeks. And I think eventually I was just like, this is really, really helpful, but I have a hard time tracking my cycle. So now I just take it consistently and it's been easy. I just needed the diagnosis. She handles my prescription and you know, I had the right provider. And I think that that's going to be key. Somebody who believes you, somebody who listens, somebody who understands and somebody who knows the science. And I was very, very lucky that I had all of that for that conversation.
Emily:
Thank you for being here. I kind of poured my heart out at the beginning of Episode 19, acknowledging how difficult it is for me to value my own work and what it's worth. If you heard that you'll noted the podcast now has a donations page. I'll personally acknowledge support is the first episode of every month. This will never be a paid podcast. It's too important to me that it's accessible, but if you find value in these episodes, have some spare change and feel like you'd like to contribute to running costs, I'd sincerely appreciate you buying me a coffee. Support the podcast at Buy Me a Coffee Shop Forward slash VOA podcast. After all, I'm a PhD student on a budget producing a podcast on the side. Hmm. Yeah, that sounds like it would have been difficult with with a male doctor. And that's not to say that there aren't male doctors that know about women's concerns. But when I was a I was actually a medical rep for a year and a half after I finished my undergrad. And one of the medications that I read was a contraceptive pill. And so it was quite interesting because I would speak with a whole range of different doctors. But yeah, generally when I would speak to the male doctors, they and totally understandable because if you're a woman who menstruate, you generally would choose to go, I guess, out of comfort to a female doctor or a doctor that also menstruate because they understand that experience. So I totally understand that in general, male doctors just wouldn't have need to educate themselves about that because the percentage of their clientele that comes to them for that is so much smaller. But yeah, it sounds like it's amazing that you already had that relationship with your specialist and you sort of had somewhere to go and someone that you could be vulnerable with, I guess as well, when it started to reemerge.
Elana:
Yeah. And I just when I was looking for providers at the very beginning, I looked through who I was covered to see. And I just picked I think, like I said in the last episode, I just picked somebody who had specialty in higher risk birth, I think, and had like I think that actually she specifically had expertise in postpartum depression. And so I was like, that set off almost like a green light for me. I was like, Ah, there's an understanding of hormonal changes leading to mood changes kind of thing. I was like, That seems like a good doctor. So, you know, I also recommend to people who maybe are looking for somebody with some more, I don't want to call it understanding or like the things that we're talking about, but for me, it did work to find somebody who like on the website it was like sees the PPD clientele.
Emily:
Yeah, yeah. And I think, yeah, you sort of just reminded me of a point. I guess we talk a lot on the podcast about how a lot of these treatment options are a bit inaccessible because of cost. So the fact that this is a teaching hospital at your university, does that sort of alleviate some of that for you? I mean, I know there are people all over the world listening to this, so the health systems are very different and that kind of thing. But could you maybe just speak very briefly about the university teaching hospital?
Elana:
Yeah. So actually it gets more complicated than that because in the US health care system and I am 100% I will misquote this, but I'm going to do as good as I can. Preventative care under most things are covered. So if I'm remembering correctly, it doesn't cost me money to see my gynecologist because it's seen as preventative visit, especially for like pap smears or different things like that is also seen as preventative. So whatever plan that my university has me under, if I remember correctly, all of that gets covered. Birth control in the US for me has also completely been covered. So my IUD was free in fact, that under Obamacare, again, I don't know exactly why. I don't know if it still stands, but one of the reasons I got the IUD that I got was because Trump was a year into his presidency and I was worried it wouldn't be free in the coming years for me. So I got an IUD. Being at a teaching hospital I don't think matters because you still see the provider. So it's not like I just saw the resident for the visit, in which case maybe it would have been cheaper. But like because I saw the provider eventually, it just it didn't really matter. But I think biggest thing for us people especially is making sure that the provider is in-network and the hospital is in-network. And if you need to have labs done, make sure the lab is in-network. How do you do that? I have no idea. All I know is that the one I go to, the whole thing is in the same network and I'm funded by the university that runs the network. So it works out for me. Mm hmm.
Emily:
Yeah. I'd be really interested to know. I don't know if that's the case for, like, in terms of preventative care being covered. I'm unsure if that happens in Australia, so I don't know what happens in other countries. I know for us, if you have a chronic condition, you can get a health care plan and you can get a certain number of like covered visits with like a physio and that kind of thing. And we yeah, we yeah. Look, I'm sorry. I was speaking to an American about health care. I'm so sorry, but, yeah, preventative health care, I'm unsure. So I guess if you're listening and that sounds intriguing to you, I guess, and something that might benefit you possibly worth looking into whether that is also a situation in your own country.
Elana:
Yeah.
Emily:
So I have a few more questions. I guess there's some of these resources that you shared with me for evidence based information about PMDD, and that is related to that International Association for Premenstrual Disorders. So there was a website here, actually Twitter. So Twitter.com, forward slash. I a PMD global and also they've got a website, HTTPS Colon, double forward slash IAP and dot org. I guess how did you come across those and how have you engaged with those resources during your own journey? And they will be in the episode description as well.
Elana:
Totally. So this is such a weird connection. A former PhD student in my lab who is now an assistant professor at the University of Illinois, I think it's University of Illinois at Chicago. Her name is Tori Ise and Laura Mull, and I may have pronounced that incorrectly, but she actually does research on PMDD and she particularly focuses on, or at least I've seen her speak on, trying to reduce suicidality in folks with PMDD around the time of their period. And so she is on the board for this International Association of Premenstrual Disorders. And so I follow her on academic Twitter, and I would just see her tweet about these things. And this was way post diagnosis. I mean, this might have even been 20, 19, 2020. So I'm post diagnosis. I know all the stuff about PMDD and it's actually where I've learned a lot about like this isn't very common. Like most people really, truly don't have this. The more common thing is premenstrual exacerbation, which is when the time before your period exacerbates mental health conditions you're already experiencing. And the website is just so wonderful. It is like an evidence based researcher run organization that is investigating this disorder, which is very, very, very understudied. I mean, women disorders like or I should say menstruating disorders are already understudied, but this is like a fully mental menstruating disorder, like it is so understudied. So I learned about it from that. And the website has treatments, it has symptoms, it has the research, how to get involved, the whole thing. It is such an amazing resource and I think it's a great place for people to go, probably to eliminate PMDD as your thing, but to learn a little bit more about either why it does or doesn't relate to you and what the science is saying. So I highly recommend it.
Emily:
Hmm. Sounds like an incredible resource. So yeah. That it will be available in the episode description. So aside from what you've already mentioned, are there any other avenues that you've used to support you with your PMDD?
Elana:
Yeah. One thing for me, I hate to give an answer of exercise, but I like physically have to because although taking Zoloft has completely eliminated, I mean 100% of my symptoms, which is wild, I still have hard days like everyone else and I find that I get somewhat nervous when I have a hard day. That's a normal hard day because it's like, is it stopping working?
Emily:
Slippery slope.
Elana:
Beginning.
Emily:
Right?
Elana:
Totally understand. Yeah, horrifying. So I find that my days and my weeks are completely transformed by exercise. And I've also learned that it almost doesn't matter what the exercise is as long as I am moving and sweating. So like if all I can do is walk for 20 minutes, then that's all I can do. And like, that's sufficient, right? I turn on my audiobook, I still go to my little park, and if you don't know what we're talking about, you need to go listen to my first episode and I still have that mental moment. Whereas now I'm training for a half marathon and I've been running. So yesterday I ran a5k, so going outside and exercising, no matter the intensity level, going out and distancing myself physically from grad school and from who I am as a grad student and creating some distance. So I physically have some mental distance and grounding myself. I think that that has been huge for just like overall wellness. And I think that when we think about like a threshold for wellness, like I like to think about when we were leading into the pandemic and I talked about this in my last episode with you, we were leading into the pandemic. Things were boiling, but they weren't boiling over.
Elana:
And so the stress of the pandemic, all of it just came to a head. So when I talk about like maintaining my wellness, I'm talking about creating more and more space from that boiling over point so that like if the Zoloft stops working or if something is changing hormonally, I have a much bigger cushion to figure that out, work that out, etc. before I boil over. Whereas like with COVID, it was like, You're done, you're done. Like it's there. So even if I'm having a good day, making sure that I continue my streak of taking care of my wellness gives me more of a shot, of catching things if they're getting bad and being able to repair them before I'm at a point of being unwell. So I think that it's really important to say, like, that's how I think about my mental health. And I think this is how you take care of your mental health when not when it's just bad. Is giving yourself the best shot for the inevitable. Because as humans, we will have downs. It's like equilibrium. It's like gravity. Like what goes up will come down. It'll come up again. But I think that thinking about spending my time, preparing myself best for when life does those things, like I think about my cat, which I also talked about in the last episode.
Elana:
I was at my very best of the pandemic right before my cat died and I was on Zoloft and I thank God for that every day because I was able to still have a successful semester and be okay despite how tragic that was because I was in a mental place where that tore me down, but it did not destroy me. And I think it's just important to set ourselves up for the best we can, whatever the best is for us, you know. And October 19, the best was really, really high. And October 20th, the best was very, very low after he died. But it wasn't in the negatives. And so I was really thankful for that. So long story short, taking care of my PMDD is not always about or not always depended on where my PMDD is taking care of. My PMDD is giving myself the best shot to handle it whenever it does. Research, which I have accepted will likely happen at some point. So take care of yourself always as best you can, whatever that looks like, and do your best to set yourself up for when life goes. Hmm. Yeah.
Emily:
And I again, from lack the perspective of anxiety and depression, I can really relate to that because like two of the things that I have determined are just like absolutely crucial for me to stay well is spending one on one time with people that I love and exercising. So I actually enjoy exercise. So that's good, but it's really tough now once you find something that like you're really into. But so I swim laps and I do yoga and I've sort of like done different things over my life. But those are sort of the two things and cycling my things. But it's can be really difficult to like defend or protect spending that time because at least for me, in my mind, I'm like, yeah, but like everyone needs exercise to stay well, like, so if I miss it, like other people are missing it and like, you know, like that's kind of fine, but I don't know if you experience this as well, but it's just like I like, I actually like it's on such a I feel like it's on such a different level. Like if I miss it, it's like dramatic, like tragic. Like it's going to have a really big, potentially much bigger impact on me than people that don't struggle with some of these conditions. I don't know if that's. Do you find it difficult to protect the time for that? Like particularly, you know, juggling podcast and PhD.
Elana:
I actually have two responses to that. I had laughed when you were doing the whole like, well, other people miss it, I can miss it. My parents had a saying growing up because I would do that comparison game all the time and now it just like repeats in my head when my parents would be like, Well, you're not other people. And that is like a line that I grew up hearing. And that's true, right? None of us are other people. We're only ourselves. So that is my first piece of I try to get myself immediately out of the if they're doing it, I can to.
Emily:
Go for it. I'll try.
Elana:
And I know.
Emily:
That talent. Thank you.
Elana:
But it's it's interesting because I think that this has really shifted because of COVID one, because I think COVID gave a little bit of everyone like the YOLO realization of like, wow, like life is fragile and the things I find normal throughout life are fragile and not taking moments for granted. So through that and also through realizing like I have tweeted this so many times, like I tweeted the other week, I was like once again here to complain about how annoying it is that exercise works. How rude. I honestly like disgusting, but it's come down to like I think about what are my bare minimum necessities every day, like brushing teeth, putting on deodorant, eating every meal, sleeping. And I try to add those to that list because those are givens. Those are like, I mean, could I skip a meal? Sure. But like, I do not do well skipping a meal. Like I get very hangry. There's also like I could skip brushing my teeth, but like, I feel gross. My partner won't want to kiss me. Like, there's things like, I don't I don't skip. And so for, like, exercise is more like a weekly basis. Like, if I skip a week, that's when I'm like, I'm bad. If I skip one day, I can like get away with that. But when I've skipped multiple days in a row, I really start to feel like it's not working out. I don't find that I have a hard time. Making time for it. I do find that I have a hard time sometimes doing it.
Elana:
So something for me, like you talked about your like prerequisites, like these are the things I have to do for me. I do find that it's some sort of walking or running and that seems to be the thing that gets me or the times that I'm a total vegetable, a total potato. Like I need to spend like 6 hours in one day, probably like a good, a good chunk of time on the weekends, sitting in front of my computer and my TV and learning to not judge myself that like that's the way I chill out and not being like, you're a lazy piece of shit instead of being like, why does like going hiking not do it for me? I don't know. But I have to have that chill out time away from people. I need to be isolated. I need to just feel as if I'm not being perceived right. Like I'm just I fully let go of all judgment. I have to have that to reset. So I find that I'll have the time. For some reason I'm able to carve out the time, but I may fill it with busy things because I can. Or instead of going for my walk or my run, I'll fill it with busy things because I can like I'll be like, I don't want to go for a run. It's going to make me tired. But then I'll just sit on my floor for 30 minutes instead of going like, Hmm, so I have the time. But it's about convincing myself to spend it, right?
Emily:
Yeah, I can totally relate to that. I like went through these period where I was like, okay, like I'm supposed to be relaxing, but like the thing that makes me relax is going in swimming laps, but actually that's like work. So am I like making myself go into work? Like, is that actually relaxing? I don't know. And then, yeah, I sit on my couch for.
Elana:
Like.
Emily:
I sit on my couch like half an hour, just like analyzing all this stuff. And then I'm like.
Elana:
Why didn't I just go for.
Emily:
The swim?
Elana:
That's. And that's why I've had to start walking, because I'm like, okay, I'm not going to run fine. Like, I accept that that's where my body is today, but I need to move my feet like I need. I need to leave the house like I need to, I don't know, be with the trees, if you will. And like, I know I need that part. Like, there have been times where I have driven to the park. I have like a favorite park, and I sit on a bench and listen to my audiobook because I'm like, That's what I can do today. But I got out, I got to the park, you know, I got in my workout clothes. Like, I like to think about those as when's because when I think about building a habit, like working out regularly, if I do every single step and I go, I get to the park in my workout gear at the right time of day. I have all my gear with me. I'm listening to my audiobook. If that's the best I can do that day, I'm still building the habit to be successful for future runs or future walks. So I try to like accept that.
Emily:
Mm. I love that. I love that because yeah. Sorry I had this like, oh, I had this really, really anxious time right before my final talk last year. Like it was, was difficult, difficult to leave the house and I like managed to get myself out of the house to like cycle to the pool. But then I was like having such a difficult time, like walking inside the premises of the pool. And it's just like, yeah, I was sort of like, okay, like I get myself there. Okay, that's like one step. Like walking inside. It's like another step. Like, actually getting in the pool is like another step. So yeah, that's, I think that's a really good point for helping to maintain some of those habits, like thinking about it in like a stepwise manner.
Elana:
Yeah, it also helps me with like getting things done when I'm having a bad mental health day. Like usually I can say like, can I put on a pair of leggings right now. Yes. Like, can I put on a workout shirt. Yes. You know, and like I'll do that with like, can I open this word document. Let me just read it through one time. You know, let me let me just edit what I already have and not add to it. So like little things like that, to just get me one step closer, like that does help me in multiple areas of life. Hmm.
Emily:
So we're pretty close to the end of this episode. I have one more question. What support have you found to be like? Absolutely. Number one, in terms of supporting your PM day and that combined with your academic journey.
Elana:
Yeah. For you, yeah. I feel like what I want to say is the medication, but I actually think the answer here is my partner. I think that first, like if he had not had that conversation with me and just been so caring but so direct that we were all just suffering, I would never have tried the medication and the day that I got the medication and I was crying on the floor for 6 hours, like, I mean, I wouldn't have taken it were it not for his support. And, you know, I am so thankful for his patience. So I have to say, my person and and the reason I worded it that way is that I don't think it's always a significant romantic partner. Like for some people it's their mom or it's their dad, or it's like that best friend who just will go through anything with you. So for me, you know, it's funny as as extroverted as I am, like, I have a very. Small group of close friends, and I kind of stick to that. Close relationships. I value more than more relationships.
Emily:
Yeah.
Elana:
So for me, it's like having that person with you to, like, cheer you on, call you out when needed, or have that tough talk when needed and just, like let you be wherever you're at on your journey, I think has been the one big support. So I encourage folks, you know, it can be really hard to find that person in life. I know it's a huge privilege that I've been with this incredible man for almost eight years. But I highly recommend, you know, when people are feeling well enough to try to put in the work with somebody in their life and start building that trust so that you have someone to lean on. Because none of us should have to handle any of this alone, nor do we need to.
Emily:
I feel like that's such a positive message to sort of end.
Elana:
On a positive. Sorry.
Emily:
No, I love it. Is there anything else you wanted to add for this episode? Elana, before we wrap up.
Elana:
I do just want to give people a brief idea about dear grad student, if that's okay.
Emily:
Yeah, go for it.
Elana:
Yeah. So, you know, I host and I produce dear grad student and this came out of the pandemic, right? Everything that we're talking about today, like loneliness, the stress. I needed a place to funnel that for grad school and thus a podcast was born. And I talked to people on the podcast about these things, never in this much detail. And if you're on this episode, because I have referenced it for the millionth time and dear grad student, as I expect to then you already know, I'm going to say, but I talk about all different kinds of topics and my goal for it is I try to do what first year mean needed, and so I have similar conversations like this, but it's typically not mental health stories, although I do have a few of those. It's just life doing life and doing grad school. And so yeah, we're 60 something episodes in when this comes out if if not more. And we'd love to have folks join me over there. So thank you for the work that you do with voices of academia and really the work your whole team does. And you know, I'm going to end with a cliche because I'm dramatic and I end with cliches.
Elana:
But really, truly, for people listening like you are not alone. I know more people with mental illness than I do without. And I just say that maybe that's just that's just who I track attract in my life. But I just mean to say, like, it's so common and there are people out there who want to support you, who want to listen. And if they're not in your life right now, that's okay. But they're out there and I love you and people love you and you deserve wellness. And I hope that if you're listening to this because you're not feeling well and maybe you need a push, this is your permission to seek help, or this is your reminder that if you have an assignment for your therapist to do something to do it. I was a former therapist, so I can say that. Or if you just need permission to do nothing to stop your day, if you're overwhelmed, this is your permission for that. So just. Yeah. Thank you so much. This has been a wonderful experience, Emily. Thank you.
Emily:
Thank you. And yeah, absolutely love that tie up. And you're so if you're listening and you do end up going and listening to Elana hosting Dear Grad Student, she is absolutely fantastic at speaking directly to you, the listener and I, when I'm listening to her podcast, I really feel like she's just like in my ear, like what she is telling you, but like it just, it feels so personalized. And I think what you've done with dear grad student is really, really incredible as well. I've listened to many of the episodes and I find all of them that I listen to very thank you. Very powerful. And yeah, it's there's so much when you start a master's or for my in my case a PhD that you just you don't know. And I think within academia, it's difficult to carve out the time to have those conversations with people that are a bit more senior because we are so strapped for time and so needing to be so productivity driven, so to have something that you can sort of listen to in your spare time, you know, you can listen to a part of it and then go back to it and whatever. But to just hear bits and pieces of what other people have gone through during their grad student journey and how they've dealt with it, it is really, really, really helpful. And so I'm yeah, like thank you for starting that up and for continuing it because I know it's been a huge amount of work.
Emily:
I, I know we will keep in contact because I'm speaking to and next week to record the crossover episode spoilers. So yeah, thank you so much for coming on for speaking in more detail than you probably ever have about Pam Day and about sort of what helped you through and how that impacted you. As a final reminder, if you're listening and you'd like to get in touch with Elana, she's available on Twitter @Elana_Gloger and I'll put a link to that in the episode description that does bring us. Pretty close to the end of today's episode of Voices of Academia. To you listening, as always, thank you so much for choosing to spend some of your time with us. I don't often get to learn who the listeners are or interact with you, so I'd really love to know what you took away from a lot of story. Let me know on Twitter at E King underscore c i for science. Otherwise, I look forward to having you with me again in a couple of weeks. But for now. Before you go, we have some support, resources and information for how you can share your own story if this episode brought anything up for you. There are mental health resources and emergency numbers available for various countries at www.checkpointorg.com/global. For information found in this episode, refer to the episode description or visit the podcast section of our website, www.VoicesofAcademia.com. There you can also access the full transcript of this episode made available by our lovely Voices of Academia team member, Daniel Ranson. This podcast was written, hosted and produced by me Emily, with support from some very special people in my life. You can find me on Twitter @EKing_Sci for science, but I'm part of the larger voices of academia team. We have a website, a Twitter account @AcademicVoices and also share stories in blog form with the option of them being anonymous. If you like this podcast and want to hear more stories, please leave a review. Subscribe. Tell me what you think on Twitter and tell your friends. The podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and most other major listening platforms. You can also follow the voices of academia, blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Just head to our website www.VoicesofAcademia.com to sign up. If you have a mental health or wellness story to share, we absolutely want to hear from you. Whether you're a team leader, research assistant, postdoc, student, ex-academic, or any other type of researcher follower @AcademicVoices on Twitter, visit the link in the episode description or visit our website www.VoicesofAcademia.com for details on how to share your story, it's time someone gave you a voice.
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