Ep13_Dancing for Freedom_Dr. Malik Boykin.mp3
Ep13_Dancing for Freedom_Dr. Malik Boykin.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Ep13_Dancing for Freedom_Dr. Malik Boykin.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Emily:
Hey there. A quick warning before we start. Today's episode touches on fatal and racist violence in the U.S. Please be mindful if you continue to listen and reach out for support if you need it. Today's guest, Dr Malik Boykin, opens up about how dancing, writing Hip-Hop rhymes and challenging his self-doubt in the mirror keeps him going with a challenging life and career.
Malik:
The one thing that I did all the way through graduate school that was the most helpful was dance, however cheesy that sounds, it was like I had to find time to get to a place that was playing Hip-Hop music or Afrobeat music or electronic dance music or something, and just sweat it out and really just leave it there and like dance into my legs, retired and dance until, you know, I just was almost meditatively just in the groove in the music in the moment. And I think that that was my best strategy to recharge. It was my best strategy to release. And I had just a consistent practice of that.
Emily:
Malik is a psychology professor who opened up previously in episode 12 about early life experiences and challenges he faces as a Black man and professor. I highly recommend going back to have a listen to the first part of his story before jumping in here.
Emily:
Welcome to Voices of Academia with Emily King. It's a podcast where researchers from around the world open up about their mental health. They might laugh, cry or say things you disagree with, but this has lived experience, not professional advice. We cover some sensitive material, but it's worth it to normalize difficult conversations, reduce stigma and help people feel less alone. Let's get into it.
Emily:
As I mentioned in the last episode, your assistant, Duaa Malik, came forward to our team and sort of presented you as a potential guest for our podcast, and I'm so glad she did, because I found in the last episode just I, I'm really interested in hearing your story. And it's, it's one that I don't have a lot of personal experience with. And I think it's really important, you know, for our listeners to to hear from someone in your position with your experiences to maybe help, you know, them find a bit of a role model for themselves as well. So I just want to thank you again. I know you're a busy professor and also a musician, so thank you for giving up your Friday night. This is probably like prime time for you as a musician.
Malik:
Oh, no, it's fine. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Emily:
Thank you. So we learned a bit about your life in the last episode before you opened up about your story. And similarly today, I guess I have a few questions before we get into some of your support systems. So in your downtime is there and you're going to have a great answer for this, I'm sure, being an artist. But is there anything you're particularly watching or listening to or reading that you're particularly enjoying that you'd like to share with the audience?
Malik:
You know, from a media standpoint? There's only two shows I watch. One of them is Decis and Marro, which I think is hilarious. It comes on Showtime and the other is Instagram live show called The Blairism is featuring my buddy from college, Blair Dotan Haley and his husband, Brandon Dotan Haley. And it's interview style show. It's wildly entertaining, and I am absolutely enjoying it in terms of things that I'm consuming music wise. I'm still listening to the classic spoke a lot of the world. When I think of the classic, I spent a lot of the day today with the souls of mischief listening in the hieroglyphics Double Homosapien, as well as A Tribe Called Quest to see good all classic 90s hip hop. Beyond that, I'm also Jackal's got some new stuff out and I'm degrease.
Emily:
My partner's obsessed with the Jackal. Fantastic.
Malik:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jackal is phenomenal. And that's that's about what I'm what I'm consuming. I think in terms of things that I'm reading, I'm really just reading things that are informing my research more so that I'm reading for entertainment.
Emily:
And I will admit in the break just now, you didn't me yourself. So I definitely heard you rapping in the background.
Malik:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's I would do that. I love it.
Emily:
And this one. Do you I guess, do you have a bucket list? And what's the top thing that is on there?
Malik:
Holy smokes. Bucket list. Yeah. So one thing that's on my bucket list, which is it's very specifically you want to take multiple trips to Africa, west, south central east, you know, but I really want to perform on the continent if there is like some kind of music festival or something where I can bring my brand of positive hip hop to a stage there and connect with people there, that is just on my bucket list, which is not just a thing, but it's also an experience like I want to connect with a large audience on the continent of Africa. So that's one thing that that is on my bucket list. I want to publish a paper in nature that is on my bucket list. You know, that is so that will be a thing that I will work towards in my career. And, you know, the last thing on the bucket list really is full professorship.
Emily:
What does that mean in America, so you're currently a professor, which is full professorship mean? Is that in terms of tenure, track stability?
Malik:
Totally, yeah. And so there's three tiers here. There's assistant professor and the assistant professors typically are new junior faculty. Once you get tenure the very next year, an associate professor in most universities in America, tenure at associate professor, but associate professors who have to mean a further bar to differentiate themselves, the field to become full professors and get a full professor. Here is, you know, when you retire, you're emeritus. You're your pictures up on that wall. Right. And so it's one thing to be, you know, breaking the color barrier in my particular department at Brown. But I think it would be another thing entirely to, you know, graffiti on the wall with my ameritas portrait. Yeah, that'd be that'd be my my cool disco dance grey tag on the wall. Just let him know that I was here for forever and ever, you know, shout out to D.C. graffiti legend of cool disco dare.
Emily:
Well, I wish you all the best of all of those girls like. So if anyone would like to get in contact with Milich based on what he talks about in this episode, I'll just do a quick social media shout out at the start of this episode, too, so you can contact him on Instagram at Stocks Malique also at his website, which Mike, would you mind just quickly running over what what those two websites are?
Malik:
Yep, for my music its Malikstarx.com and for my research its, boykinlab.com. Either one of those are the best ways that you can you can find your way to me.
Emily:
Perfect. Thank you. So you mentioned in the last episode that you you have a number of different ways that you sort of manage some of your challenges. And, you know, some of those challenges for you have included quite significant losses quite early on in your life. Depression burn out through your career and also the threat of violence as a black man. So for you, I guess today we try and talk about some of these creative outlets, because that's something that doesn't really come up on the podcast before. And I'm really intrigued to learn more about sort of how you use those. So the music, the dance, the writing. And you also mentioned in the last episode Merel Work, which I'm interested to learn a little bit more about. And prior to speaking, you mentioned that you also try to actively practice gratitude and serving others as a method of cultivating positive emotion. So a lot to try and Covid today. We'll see how we go with time. But I guess the first thing I wanted to touch on, if you're willing, is going back to that first week of graduate school for you and learning that most of your belongings had burned up with your car and you then needed to make this rental claim on your new insurance and were then under audit for that while, you know, having to perform at graduate school and I guess building all the new relationships there, because you'd moved to California for this. And you mentioned that, you know, you were pushed to still consider all of these deadlines that you had. So I'm interested to know, I guess, what the response from academia was when you were going through some of this. You know, did you receive support? You know, what what was that sort of response like for you?
Malik:
Yeah, I mean, there was a swell of people who, you know, who expressed emotional empathy and they were very sorry for what happened and who outwardly expressed concern. But there was no give in terms of deadlines and things of that nature. Right. So it's like, you know, the first stats exam is still on the date that it is. And conference submissions are still do when they're due. And the IAB that was put on my plate still had to be written in time to collect data for the timeliness of this particular project. So it was definitely a you know, you're here to produce kind of ethic with displays of empathy that were, you know, a part of it. So, you know, I can't necessarily say that it was cold. I can say that the response was cold. You know, people did, you know, give me the hand on the shoulder and, you know, the sadness and so on and so forth. And I did feel like from that level, people cared about me. I also knew that that had no implications for what was expected of me, right. Like in academia, you know, it's a place of high and sometimes even unrealistic expectations. And, you know, you are forced to meet those or to face the consequences of that. And so it was, you know, a it was a tough it was a tough semester. I mean, really it really was. And, you know, I just don't think that I had come into the program with enough statistics, knowledge to really be prepared for what was being asked of me.
Malik:
So it was a lot of long hours to even, you know, stay afloat in statistics and, you know, with everything else. Certainly, you know, sleeping in the in the lab was a part of what I was doing. I also had people asking me things like, why do you wear so many UC Berkeley T-shirts? And it really was like, well, they were on sale three for twenty one dollars. And I didn't have no clothes because all my clothes burned up. So, you know, I went down to the stores about campus that would sell, you know, a number of kaow T-shirts, any kind of cheap thing. And we made teachers that they did really bad in the wash. That's my whole damn wardrobe. But all my all my clothes was gone, you know. And yeah. And it was like, you know, I mean, like people inquire from me on this one. But, you know, I was very used to having a car and this was like, you know, navigating the bus system and in this new place. So this is a it was a lot of radical change. It was a lot of dislike. I got to deal with this. There were many cycle like my accumulation of psychology books to that time, just my whole book, Cracking Up in smoke. And then many of my keepsakes, my degrees, my photos also up in smoke. So I just didn't even get time to process in that. It was just like, man, this sucks.
Malik:
I'm sorry. And I feel so bad for you. And, you know, this shit's due on Friday and we got an exam on, you know, so it was. Yeah, and I figured that out quit. I was like, oh, man, I got to just get this stuff done, you know. And, you know, I acclimated to it and it just kind of never stopped like it is in overdrive. You know, the whole way. Now, I will say that this particular period, that was my toughest semester, I think, of my two years doing my master's program or two years where I worked either two or three jobs while maintaining a 4.0, while being present in the honor society, which was a period of my time where, you know, loss of sleep was normal, where, you know, if I had to work two or three hours out of a 24 hour day, that was, you know, what had to be done. So I was also coming to Berkeley on the heels of that. So I knew what it was like to stretch beyond the limit. But it was definitely a a moment where. I, I didn't even feel like selfcare was an option. Like I just felt my produce was the option and, you know, get over it and or don't process it, process it on your own time after the semester is over. Was the option as opposed to really trying to take time to figure out what it is that I needed for my own care?
Emily:
Well, so I guess I have two questions from that. The first is, do you think there's anything? So I'm really glad to hear that you received emotional support because that's not always forthcoming in academia. Do you think there's anything that could have been done to better support you in that period? And the second question is around that, you know, the constant push and sometimes the inability to focus on on self care. Do you feel like that has shifted as you've become more senior in your career or or have you learned to manage that?
Malik:
Yeah, I can tell you that the one thing that I did all the way through graduate school that was the most helpful from Masters through PGD was dance. And, you know, however cheesy that sounds, it was like I had to find time to get to a place that was playing the hip hop music or Afrobeat music or electronic dance music or something, and just sweat it out and really just leave it there and like dance into my legs, retired, tired and dance until I just was almost meditatively just in the groove in the music in the moment. And I think that that was my best strategy to recharge. It was my best strategy to release. And I had just a consistent practice of that. You know, there was a Afrobeat club in New York City called the Shrine. They know me. They know me, you know, and then there were a number of places. It was like a hole in the wall place called like the Mazari Lounge or something in Berkeley. You catch me up in there, as in there. And they're getting it, you know? So that was one thing. Now, in terms of what people could have done to have supported me, and I will take a moment to say that my my man, Dan Cordeiro, who is an upright Europeanized, is still asked me about, you know, what does one book of the book collection that you lost that you don't think you'll be able to replace? And I told him I had a first run copy, an Alfred Adler's understanding human nature.
Malik:
It's one of my books that was lost in the fire. And by some way, he found this book and bought it and gave it to me. And I, I will just cherish that forever. That was just such an amazing act of kindness. And that and I appreciate it so much. But, you know, I mean, I don't know what could have been done. You know, I feel like the when it came to Statts, it's like you got to put the time in to learn it or it's going to pass you by. And I wanted to buy. And so what what was available at Berkeley, which, you know, might not have been available everywhere, but I went to my professors office hours every week. I went to the Teias Office hours every week, and there was also a student in class who just seemed to know everything he was taking the classes and easy a while he was teaching for physics while he was doing a master's in public policy psychology stats just to pad the stats. And so while we're all in this struggle and this guy was in there just killing it, and I met with him on Saturdays. And so, you know, the intervention for me was like I knew that I was struggling.
Malik:
I knew that I needed help. And sometimes when, you know, that's the hardest part about getting help is admitting that you need it. And I knew that I needed it. And so I just actively practiced that by help me like, you know, where where they were opportunities to get help. And, you know, that doesn't necessarily you know, the only thing that really does for my own self care is just give me the space to not feel like I'm falling behind and give me an opportunity to scratch and claw, to stay up, up to speed. And I did that. And, you know, with when it came to writing, I irees, you know, I had very fortunate acts of kindness from a four year graduate student to share protocols with me and or taught me two things and or, you know, show me the ropes. So it was a supportive community. You know, if you asked and I asked and I got support and I got those kind of support. So maybe maybe that was in part due to the fact that people knew family was having a particularly tough time, given what was going on with me. It was pretty widely known, like, you know, you don't have one of the first year graduate students show up and all his shit blows up. Not everybody
Emily:
Not knowing. Yeah.
Malik:
Clearly, everybody knew about it, you know. So, yeah. So, you know, I think that there is an ethic in the psychology department at Berkeley, especially among the graduate students, that it is a village where we take care of each other. And I do feel like that particular group did tend to me for the things that I needed in terms of my deliverables, because where we're all in the fight, they're struggling. And it was not a cutthroat you know, I'm going to try to get ahead and make everybody else look bad down at the. As I know that there are departments out there that are like that. Luckily for me, I wasn't in one of them.
Emily:
Ok, so I'm going to ask I mean, was was quitting ever an option?
Malik:
No. No, I wasn't. And yeah, I mean. And it's not to that's not to stigmatize quitting. Some people quit and it's the best decision for them, right? Absolutely. But yeah, but, you know, for me, I had maybe even to a foolhardy level, had my sights set on becoming a professional. That's just when it was called me. Right. And so there were components of it that were just so much bigger than me. And, you know, even the fact that, like, you know, social psych at Berkeley, two black males have finished that program in history. Right. The one before me was nineteen seventy seven. It was forty one year gap. And so I just felt like what it meant to finish was so important and so much bigger than me. It wasn't even a thing that crossed my mind. And I think the other thing is that because I have also this added pressure, but source of support from the fact that my father is a professor. And I had this vision that I'm going to cross that stage and my father is going to be on stage to help me. And that's exactly what happened. My dad doesn't like to be the center of attention, but he he went to he was just like, you know, I don't want to do this, you know, that I like being the center of attention, but I'm a do this for you. And my dad came out on the stage in full regalia, his piece de regalia, and he and my advisor cohosted me. And that image at the finish line off, often the distance was also just kind of enough to keep me in it.
Emily:
And I'm just like I'm almost hearing off with that image. Like, I can just imagine that would have been such a moment for you. I'd been in your shoes. I would have been a mess. Would have been pulling my eyes out.
Malik:
Yeah. Yeah, it was heavy. Wade Witkin Jr. My dad, he doesn't get choked up too much, but that was one of those moments where he he got a little choked up, you know. And yeah, he handed me a big hug on stage. And certainly some people in the audience cried in those photos. I look at them so often. They're just so. Yeah, I think of it to this point as probably the greatest moment of my life.
Emily:
Yeah. And and I'm so glad that you brought up the stigma about quitting, because that's part of the reason why I asked you. We actually had an episode previously with Tonya. Right, about withdrawing from her Ph.D. And I specifically used the language withdrawing rather than quitting, because I know there is a lot of negative stigma about quitting or, you know, seeing it as a failure. And and I just don't you know, I've done a lot of personal work, I guess, to come to terms with that, because I have very strongly considered leaving a number of times. And I was just interested, you know, to hear your your ideas on that, because I guess I want to make the point here that for some people, when you're experiencing all of these challenges, it still feels worth it to continue with the program and continue with that career trajectory. And for others, it doesn't. And that's fine. And it really depends what your motivations are and what your aspirations are and how strongly you feel linked to that. So if you're not feeling and it doesn't feel worth it, then I think that's something that's worth acknowledging in the moment as well. But yeah, definitely interesting to hear you kind of I guess it's almost like the universe was kind of like pushing you forward to to get to where you you needed to go.
Malik:
I feel that very deeply. The way that you have to describe it is the way that I think about it, and it's the way that I continue to think about it, you know, as I reach for, you know, subsequent my milestones. But, you know, for many people who reach out to me to talk to me about the peace process and whether or not they should go into it, you know, I really try to start with what their reasons are. And if they give me reasons that sound like nonsense or reasons that just that are not going to be fed by the process, really, then I tell them they should do it. It is trying. There's a lot of self-inflicted wounds of the pressure that people put on themselves to day after day. The guilt of spending any time not working towards your that's real. And then learning how to manage critical feedback and negative feedback is hard. And it is that on repeat. And so you just you write drafts and you really care about them. And it's a repeated cycle of getting these drafts sent back to you. Some of the track changes that you can't even see your words anymore. Right. And it's it is hard, you know, that emails in your box that you want to avoid it. I know what that's like. And I describe that to people on the front. And it's just like you got to get comfortable with that process. You got to recognize that that feedback is the pathway to improvement and be appreciative of it as opposed to being scared of it. And if that does not sound like a thing that you are prepared to put yourself through, because you are the person who's going to have to keep approaching and not avoiding that, then don't do it.
Malik:
And it's not it's like I describe it that way to some people and they say that sounds like it sucks and I'm going to do a master's degree and I applaud them for it. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. This is really for everybody. It's not and it's not like, you know, getting on the other side of it is the pathway to a million dollars. Right. Like I mean, my master's degree is in organizational psychology. I certainly am making less money than some of the people I was in a master's program with who, you know, took the same degree I have into the private sector. Right. And so it's like that. Why has to keep you in that particular cycle of almost potentially torturous, critical feedback for years. Yeah. And so My Lai was enough for me to think of that as like secondary, as like we keep approaching it and we keep approaching it because. Because who gives a shit? Right. But for people who's wise or, you know, things like I want to do so people will respect me. You're setting yourself up for failure. I want to peasley because, you know, I want to be a fancy doctor and travel and be cool like that. That's that is your sense of a failure. And if that's what you want to do, then just travel and go do something else, because that y is not strong enough. Yeah, that's my thoughts on that.
Emily:
Yeah. And I really appreciate you have that approach with potential new students, because I've sort of heard that some potential supervisors do that, and I really wish that I'd had those conversations before I started. My motivations have shifted a lot. But at the start, definitely my my reasons weren't good enough. And I think it's really important for people to be aware of how crucial that is to whether you kind of make it or not. So we with the dancing. I guess so. I mean, sleeping in a lab, you know, working six, seven days a week, where do you you know, I know a lot of these management strategies can provide extra energy to help you keep going. But, you know, trying to push past those exhaustion barriers that you have from working so hard to get yourself to go and dance. Like how did you did you sort of struggle with that at all? Like how did you manage that?
Malik:
Well, no, the dancing is not a thing that I need a lot of cognitive resources to do. So I can work to the point where my brain is mush. And I can't think and I can't make sense out of what's on the page, and I can't produce words and I can't do the science right. But at that point in time, I could go dance. And it feels good. It feels fantastic. So, you know, especially during the time that I was in New York City where dance floors Iraq until four a.m., sometimes six a.m.. Right. I could study till two and then go get two hours of deejay whomever or some band and just sweat it out and then walk back to my apartment and feel like I was rejuvenated. And I was going to get a good night's long sleep because I sufficiently tuckered myself out and was going to wake up ready to face the next day because I had ended my day with a catharsis. And, you know, it would be able to begin the next day, having both felt like I put the sweat equity into my work and then I sweated it out. So, yeah, so that was huge for me. A bit more challenging in California, where dance was close at 2:00 in the morning. But, you know, I just you know, sometimes it just would be like, man, I'm feeling anxious or I'm feeling like I just need to go get it in.
Malik:
And I would go and get my dance on. That's the thing. You know, I made time for dancing. I made time for concerts and hip hop. And that was important for me. The other thing that really got me through, especially during the days, I spent a lot of time in the city of Pacifica, in the Bay Area, just south of San Francisco, a little cafe on a cliff that had cheap sandwiches and free Wi-Fi that overlook the ocean. And you could see whales from the windows. And there would be many times where I would force myself out of bed, like I need to do four hours of lighting today. And I would go to this cafe and I would just write. And if I wasn't feeling it or if I was feeling really anxious by the page, I would walk out to the cliff and see the whales. And they would just bring me so much joy. And just the vastness of the ocean just brought me a lot of balance. It was very meditative and awe inspiring. And I could walk back into the café and do two hours of writing and maybe take a break, take a whale break. And so maybe you maybe had spent eight hours there, maybe four of those hours was riding in on task. But I could at the end of the day, feel like I did four hours and I could go dance.
Emily:
Yeah. And I can totally relate to that. Nature is extremely healing when you're feeling very anxious. And whales are like my number one, like passion.
Malik:
Yeah. Yeah. I certainly had the good fortune of tapping for Dacher Keltner IPA and of course, on human emotion. And he does a lot of research on the emotion of all. And I talked about how art inspires creativity. And if that was something that I really took to heart and, you know, infuse this almost whale therapy in in into my into my practice during graduate school. And luckily, that was a period of time where there was a lot of crill off the coast of the Bay Area. So the whales were coming pretty close to shore. And I, I saw them probably 85 percent of the time that I went out to go see them. I could actually just see them from the shore.
Emily:
So, I mean, I guess that's potentially even something to think about for people that are starting a day like where they do it as well, and whether they'll have access to some of these things that bring them energy and bring them, you know, joy with the dancing and the music for you. Do you use that as, I guess, a preventative measure or do you use it kind of in response to whether you're having sort of an acute difficult periods out of interest?
Malik:
I think it's both. Yeah, I think that there is a meditative component to writing songs that I think is been a coping strategy for me since I was young. And so in the time that I'm falling in love with hip hop and beginning to make hip hop is also the time where I'm trying to figure out how to regulate my emotions given these changes in my mother's health. Right. And so it is a strategy that is just has been with me since since early. And in that time, you know, I was writing a lot of rap songs and engaging with language to the detriment of my academic performance. And in this. Time where I have just bit better skills and more responsibilities, more experience with being accountable. I'm still get to make songs, but it is is a meditative practice that supplements all of the rest of things that I do. You know, the beginning of the lockdown and the pandemic for us here in the States, when many of the protests were happening around the murders of George Floyd and Taylor and the the incident with Sandy Cooper and Chris Cooper in Central Park. Know I wrote my feelings about these. And really, just because I'm you know, I live alone in isolation and more or less. And I was able to connect with another professor here at Brown University.
Malik:
Stephon Alexander is a theoretical physics professor who also makes music. And he was playing me some instrumentals that he had worked on. And I was like an animal like it is. And, you know, just trying to go into a trance and or, you know, go for a long drive. And where I could just really think to listen to these beats and play with words and think about my feelings and my thoughts and go through that. Wow. The jinga of fitting words and thoughts and feelings together to the rhythms, which is, you know, it's something that I take very seriously. It's a very intricate process. And maybe over complicated or maybe I complicate it to the exact level that I need to meditate. One of the songs that's on this forthcoming project, Hot Science, called Hip Hop found me. And there's a lyric in that tune you out that if you don't mind. You know the verse there is. I'm from Hyattsville, Maryland. Hyattsville, Maryland. Prince George's County is the Hip-Hop Fountain, like the Mandalorian deliverin. The Bounty. When I was a baby, Yeldham in my neighborhood was probably the, you know, the Catahoula. Everything around me crack in my black heart of the day, the clouds, the days. Big Cloud Hip-Hop was there for me.
Malik:
It was my therapy all before it starts. Almost blew up in Shiraki check the Mullard. We all know the story, you know. And so. Yeah, yeah. Plus, check the pedigree. It's a hard road to glory. I've never been a gangster, but Guru and Premal got me through some tough days with my mama's chemo. Malique stocks invested with the mighty power to be the lava's rapper in the ivory tower. Peridot defiant, demystifying this. You can write BRA's Plus be a flight scientists. And so all of those lyrics are super personal to me. And, you know, just getting that out on the page was important. And there are other songs where, you know, I very specifically talk about my experience with police harassment and other songs where I talk very intimately about how, you know, so much of the history of science has been leveraged to demonize black people. Right. Like that is also a story to be told. And I write it in the song. Some of this stuff is good for the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, but some of it is stories to be told with them to be communicated in art. And that is it's also part of my. Yeah, really maintaining my mental health with meditative practice of engaging with words. Hip hop.
Emily:
I'm fascinated by the amount of talent that goes into Hip-Hop because, you know, I haven't listened to a huge amount of it. I think it's funny that I'm talking to you now because my partner has been on like a deep dive into hip hop for like the last three or four weeks. And he's been you know, we've been watching all these documentaries and he's been showing me all these clips. And, yeah, like I said, he's, you know, really impressed by Jay Cole. And he showed me one of the clips recently where Jayckal was doing what's called free rap.
Malik:
I guess its like freestyle.
Emily:
Freestyle, yeah. And it's so impressive. I guess as you were just rapping then I was thinking about, yeah, it really is an art to it. It's very emotional. But like how you put those words together and particularly in freestyle to be able to get that level of connection with your audience, but in a way that is still musical and it all fits together and it's just like straight from your brain to your mouth, like at such speed as well. It's a truly impressive skill.
Malik:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the pioneers of freestyle rapping. Is a rapper named Mike A9, who was a part of a Hip-Hop group called The Freestyle Fellowship. They had an album in the early 90s in ninety one city Grinnell's. But I actually have a song on upcoming project with him on Mike Night, and I did a record together about Marcus Garvey. It's just such an important record to me. And Marcus Garvey has been such an important part of my trajectory. But it's like, wow, you know, really one of the pioneers of freestyle rap. Did a song with this this Randall professor at play that is making her pop music and bringing science to the people, to hip hop.
Emily:
That must be a great feeling for you. Absolutely. So I'm wary where we're pretty much run out of time. So there are some more things that I wanted to cover, but I might just get you to to choose one of these three and tell us a little bit more about that as we wrap up this episode. So Mirel work was one thing that you'd mentioned in the previous episode. Practicing gratitude was another thing that you've mentioned you've done. And the other one was that you actively try to serve others. So I'm sure they all have their own benefits to you. And, you know, we could probably spend another half an hour talking about how you got into those things and how you do them and why you believe they're important. But could you possibly for us, you know, choose one of those and tell us a little bit about how you got into it and how you feel it benefits your mental health?
Malik:
Yeah, I mean, I think that mirror work is just such a powerful practice for me because you know, that there's so many places where especially in peace process and the academic pathway, but also in many places in life where one of the biggest hindrances to us being able to do the things that we would otherwise be capable of self doubt. And for me, Mira, work is the literal process of taking self-doubt head on, face to face with myself in the mirror and convincing myself and talking that person up, coaching that person. Many times we coach up our friends or people outside of us to say, hey, now you really can do this, or, you know, like you're capable of this thing and you're you're worthy of this achievement that you want to reach for. Really just try. But we don't often do that for ourselves. And I think that getting into the habit of doing that for myself and being that for myself is one of the secret sources for my having been able to navigate through so much adversity and achieve some of the things that I've tried. You know, as my father tells me, you'll never have an undefeated season, but, you know, the coach is still going to be in the locker room on the days he lost and that, you know, that it's not the end of it, but that is something that you can do for yourself. And that is what the mirror work practices for me is convincing the man in the mirror, picking them up off the floor, letting them know that they're worthy and, you know, convincing them to try hard things and to really reach and maximize what I am capable of.
Emily:
And for any listeners that would be interested to maybe try that, do you, were you taught to do that or did you read about it all?
Malik:
Nope, I didn't. You know, it's ultimately it just it became just a thing, you know, because like I moved to New York City by myself. I moved to the Bay Area by myself. You know, it's not like I ever did any of it by myself, but there are plenty of times where I was by myself or where that doubt is creeping in late at night or early in the morning, where I don't really have the opportunity to call people. And so it was just developed out of necessity. I needed it. I started doing it because I needed to be done. There were times when nobody was going to do it for me. And so I could either listen to negative self talk, which I think many of us have had to contend with. I mean, I think it's one of the most human things. But if you are susceptible and vulnerable to negative self taught. Then you're probably also susceptible and vulnerable to positive, soft on. And so I just try to turn that on its head as a practice. And that has been that has been life changing for me.
Emily:
Thank you, sir. We will wrap up there. I think that's probably a pretty good place to wrap up unless there's anything else you'd like to quickly add, Mike.
Malik:
Oh, I mean, if you don't do that, if you are face that that person in America, be prepared to cry about it. Yeah, it definitely hurts. So, I mean, I don't want folks to think that it is, you know, in in there or say some positive words and is going to be OK. I see it as hard. You know, just be prepared for it to be hard. But hang on in there. Good advice.
Emily:
Yes. So, yeah, I just want to thank you again for sharing a final reminder, I guess, for all listeners that would love to get in touch with Malachy's available on Instagram at Stocks Malique and also his two websites that are linked in the episode description. And yeah, I guess I wish you all the best. Mortlake, with your future nature paper and with your fading the wall as an emeritus professor and with connecting with the community all across Africa to bring them, you know, the joys of your work. And I have listened to your song Dancing for Freedom, but I haven't listened to any of your other work. I'm not sure if it's available out there yet, but I'm sure, you know, there'll be many people that will be able to benefit from your your music as well as your psychology research. So thanks again for coming on, giving up some of your Friday at a really, really interesting and open story. You know, I always feel weird saying that I've enjoyed these talks because it sounds like I'm enjoying hearing about someone else's pain, which is not the way. It's just I just really appreciate people opening up. You know, to me, it's it's I love that human connection. So I really appreciate that.
Malik:
Don, thank you. I mean, I think that mutual self disclosure is an important way of building closeness and navigating the world. So thank you for the things that you have shared with me. And I am also happy that I get to share some of myself to an audience.
Emily:
So that brings us close to the end of today's episode of Voices of Academia to you guys listening. Thank you for choosing to share some of your time with us. I'd love to know your takeaway from Malakia story. Let me know on Twitter at Achieng. Underscore SJI for science. Otherwise, I look forward to having you with me for another academic mental health story in a couple of weeks. Bye for now.
Emily:
Before you go, we have some support, resources and information for how you can share your own story.
Emily:
If this episode brought anything up for you, there are mental health resources and emergency numbers available for various countries at www.dot checkpointorg.com/global. For information found in this episode, refer to the episode description or visit the podcast section of our website www.voicesofacademia.com. There you can also access the full transcript of this episode made available by our lovely voices of academia and team member Daniel Ranson. This podcast was written, hosted and produced by me, Emily, with support from some very special people in my life. You can find me on Twitter @eking_sci for science, but I'm part of the larger voices of academia team. We have a website, a Twitter account @academicvoices and also share stories in blog form. With the option of them being anonymous. If you like this podcast and want to hear more stories, please leave a review. Subscribe. Tell me what you think on Twitter and tell your friends. The podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and most other major listening platforms. You can also follow the voices of academia blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Just head to our Web site, www.voicesofacademia.com to sign up if you have a mental health or wellness story to share. We absolutely want to hear from me. Whether you're a team leader, research assistant postdoc, student X academic or any other type of researcher falher at Academic Voices on Twitter. Visit the link in the episode description or visit our Web site www.voicesofacademia.com for details on how to share your story. It's time someone gave you a voice.
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