Ep27 Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD) and a PhD | Elana Gloger.mp3
Ep27 Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD) and a PhD | Elana Gloger.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Ep27 Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD) and a PhD | Elana Gloger.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Emily:
Hey there. A quick warning before we start. Today's episode touches on suicidal ideation and there's a little bit of swearing. Please be mindful if you continue to listen and reach out for support if you need it. Today we travel to Lexington, Kentucky in the US to meet Elana Gloger, a fifth year health psychology PhD candidate and creator of the Dear Grad Student podcast. A lot of research, just interaction between psychology and the immune system through aging. I feel like we're kindered spirits, able to tear down the walls and just speak candidly, even about the hard stuff. Some people might call it oversharing, but I believe it creates a strong level of connection to hear someone speak so freely. During our discussion, Elana opens up about how premenstrual dysphoric disorder PMDD impacted her life and PhD before it was well managed.
Elana:
I hit a day during the month when I just get so frustrated and anxious. I get super anxious about my health. I start feeling my thyroid. I do not have a thyroid problem, but I like will be convinced that my thyroid isn't large. Taking pictures in the mirror. Googling symptoms. And when COVID hit, of course it switched to a focus on that. I would once a month be convincing myself that the person I've been dating for seven years is not the right one for me. For all these reasons, he wouldn't do anything differently, but I would find all of these things and be like, This isn't the one. What are you doing? I mean, it's all of that. Like, negative thoughts. Spirals would just go. I would also bloat like crazy. Like 5 to £10 of water weight, which would kind of affect my body image. I would find myself typing and doing work for school and just like, crying at my keyboard. I've eventually learned to just stop working on those days. All of that would be intense and then it would magically disappear.
Emily:
Welcome to Voices of Academia with Emily King. It's a podcast where researchers from around the world open up about their mental health. They might laugh, cry or say things you disagree with, but this is lived experience, not professional advice. We cover some sensitive material, but it's worth it to normalize difficult conversations, reduce stigma, and help people feel less alone. Let's get into it.
Emily:
Hi, Elana.
Elana:
Hello. So excited to be here.
Emily:
I'm so excited to have you. And I actually can't believe this is the first time we've spoken. It kind of feels like I already know you a little bit.
Elana:
You know, I feel the same way. This happens often with folks, especially that I've spoken to on dear grad student, regularly on Twitter or other podcasters, or I've heard their voice and I'm like, Oh yeah. What's.Up? And then I'm like, Oh yeah, you've never met them. They've never met you. Like, act normal. Be don't just start assuming you know everything about them. Like its a very, very regular occurrence for me.
Emily:
Yeah. I probably need to make sure for the listeners that I don't just like make reference to stuff that I'm aware of, but they're probably unaware of.
Elana:
You know what, that's going to be great.
Emily:
So yeah. So we did meet, for you listening. Elana and I met, I guess essentially through Twitter, @AcademicTwitter, but she hosts a podcast called Dear Grad Student, which is absolutely amazing. I'm a listener of that. It talks about all things grad school. So for you guys in Australia, I guess that's anyone doing a master's or a PhD, and I found some of those episodes really relatable and really powerful. So I have retweeted some of those. I know a lot is saved, some of those when I've retweeted, I have because it makes my heart happy. I love that. I also believe she's been a writer of the Voices of Academia blog at times, but when we decided to launch this podcast, she came forward and said, You know, she prefers chatting, oversharing, and was willing to come forward with a story after our podcast was launched. And I'm yeah, really excited to have you here. You probably don't know this, but I've actually put some cheeky plugs for your podcast in here in the past, particularly on World Mental Health Day, because last year, also October of 2020, I just wanted to acknowledge some other kind of people within the academic mental health space that were doing some really great work. And as much as the grad student is about all things grad school, that does include an element of mental health.
Emily:
So there have been some really fantastic episodes in there covering a range of different mental health stories. So if you're listening and you want to have a listen to those, they're available at DearGradStudent.com/Mental/Health. I feel like this is such a long intro to how we know each other, but I'm also really excited to share that we're doing a crossover episode. Yeah, so. So this episode will air just off the new master's and PhD students have started in Australia. So if you want to get a better idea of what the next few years of your life might be like, I strongly recommend you go check out the Dear Grad Student Podcast. It's available pretty much anywhere that you can listen to your podcasts and while you're there, you can listen to a lot of interview me about my PhD studies and some life experiences that have happened along the way. So that's my little intro to how we know each other. I also actually when I was like a noob, Elana started a podcast a bit before me, so I would contact her through Twitter direct messages and be like, How do I edit my podcast episode?
Elana:
Oh my God. And I was so ready to say yes, I was like, Sorry, this is going to be the longest response. But I was like, You do this and then you do this. And then I'm like, Do you need anything else? Can I help you in any other way? Like, is there anything else? And I was so happy to help you because I feel like I'm like a kindred spirit in a way. I'm like, I love what you do with voices of academia. And similarly, I've dropped plugs as well, mostly for the blog, just because there's so, so much content on there. But I think Episode ten on my podcast that I did with Karen Tang was like my first big mental health episode, and I definitely mentioned voices of academia. It's linked in the description for that one. Like I know that off the top of my head, not to mention all of the ones listed on the page that you quoted. So I feel like we've just been shouting each other out and it's just been like a really big build up to these two episodes on this podcast and the one that's going to come out as well on Dear Grad Student. So it's just like, what an exciting I don't know, I don't want to call it a climax because I feel like it's more like the beginning of more great things to come, hopefully between our podcasts.
Emily:
Yeah, I definitely hope so. And it's been such an organic kind of relationship as well. Like that was definitely okay. This is like a little bit of a vulnerability share, but that was definitely a part of me that was kind of like, Oh, it's like competition. We're in the same space. But then I was like, No, no. Like it's so amazing that people are coming forward and speaking openly about these things, and I definitely would never want to monopolize that space. And I think it's really fantastic to have multiple different avenues that people can go to to share, but people can go to to listen because it just means and I know there are topics on your podcast that I haven't had guests talk about those things before. So. It's just another place that people can go to to maybe find a story that's a bit more similar to theirs.
Elana:
Love that. And vice versa and vice versa.
Emily:
So I wanted to know, I guess, yeah, I've heard little bits and pieces of your story through listening to your podcast, but I wanted to know why you would like to share with us today.
Elana:
Definitely so. I think that my story in general today is going to revolve a lot around a disorder called premenstrual dysphoric disorder. I wanted to like the most impactful disorder, like the most impairing disorder that I deal with. But I think that one of the biggest reasons that I'm excited to talk about it is that I don't hear people talk about it and it's sure like it is definitely less prevalent than depression or anxiety alone, but it's super debilitating for me. And I also find that because it is related to or on the cycle of my menstrual cycle, like people joke so much about PMS and like it's not a joke, like it's not fun. Like I'm not having fun, you know what I mean?
Elana:
So a little bit about like education, building awareness and sharing my story because I also think that while most people don't have these symptoms around their period for people that do, I mean, it took me a long time to figure out that my symptoms were in a pattern and what that pattern lined up with. So maybe there's someone listening who is out there like, oh, my gosh, like, I feel crazy and I'm here to tell you, you're not like this. This could potentially really be something you're noticing in you. So for lots of reasons, like I'm just I'm really excited to sort of dive into it.
Emily:
And I'm really excited to talk about this too, because I actually hadn't heard of PMDD until I listened to one of your episodes, and I ended up doing some tracking for my own personal reasons after kind of listening to some of that, because it's yeah, it's kind of crazy that, you know, as a woman that menstrates, you know, and has done for 20 years, I'd never heard of this before and like hadn't been educated around any of it. But also I did a quick bit of reading just before this episode and it does seem to be linked often to depression and anxiety as well. And I'm sure that's because it can trigger fatigue and, you know, be quite a difficult thing to manage and add sort of stress on top of everything else. So I'm really interested to sort of learn a bit more about that from your perspective. And I do want to thank you for sharing as well because we yeah, we haven't talked about that on the podcast before.
Elana:
Yeah. And you know, you bring up a good point that this can be super related to depression and anxiety. And something that I actually learned recently from a researcher of PMDD on Twitter is that there is a difference between PMDD, which is premenstrual dysphoric disorder, which is what I have, and premenstrual exacerbation. And so premenstrual exacerbation is usually for folks who have like a comorbid depression or anxiety that just gets really, really bad leading up to their period. Whereas in my case, the strange thing is that I don't have depression or anxiety except leading up to my period every month. So if it's exacerbating other symptoms, it's actually something different. And that is much more common than like what you're dealing with mental health wise is just super exacerbated leading up to menstruating, I suppose. But for me, I do not have any depression or anxiety except for those times. So it's like it's it's very strange. And again, we'll get into it here in a bit. But yeah, it's a strange feeling.
Emily:
Yeah, that's so interesting. And I learn something new already.
Elana:
I'm happy to be, you know, I know somebody as a grad student in psychology, this is like layers and layers of like happy to be here, happy to educate. Let's do it.
Emily:
I love it. So Elana is available on all the things, if anything she says is relatable for you. So she's available on Twitter @DearGradStudent. Also @Elana_Gloger. She's available on Instagram @thegradstudentpod. She's available on Facebook at Dear Grad Student. And she also has an awesome website that I'm very jealous of. It's DearGradStudent.Com. So you can go and see her anywhere there and contact her and I'll put all the links in the episode description for that as well.
Elana:
Amazing. Yeah.
Emily:
Yeah. So as much as we've had a bit of back and forth communication by email and on Twitter and I've listened to your episodes, so I probably know more about you than a lot of other guests kind of coming in. But I still want to ask some of these questions to get to know you a little bit better. And I guess for any listeners that have never heard of or listen to Dear Grad Student, for them to get to know you as well. So one of my typical questions is what's your favorite way to spend a day off?
Elana:
This is an amazing question. My favorite way to spend a day off is to play a video game called Planet Coaster for like 12 hours and watch hugely rewatch and binge watch a favorite show of mine. Right now I'm rewatching Lost for the third time, but in the past I think I've rewatched Downton Abbey five or six times. I've rewatched Outlander three or four times. I just I just need something in the background that's like a feel good or something like that. And I just veg out, I just do absolutely nothing or I'll go for a run. But typically it's just I need to totally turn off. I know, I know. But it's usually just something that is completely away from schoolwork. Like, I fully, fully, fully shut it off. I mean, I have to be like a potato or I. My head goes into school mode.
Emily:
What's Planet Coaster?
Elana:
About? Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for asking. Planet Coaster. It's like, you know how like Sims is. Like, it simulates real life and you like make people and you live their lives. I also play the Sims. Planet Coaster is like that, but a roller coaster park. So you design the entire park, you design the rides. You have to manage the business of like the money and the employees. And I just get so into like the decorating of it and running the business and growing the parks. And I just find it to be so fun. It's on Xbox, it's on Mac, it's on PC, and it's usually on sale around holiday times and random times throughout the year. But I think I got it for like $5 because it was on sale. I am obsessed. I am obsessed. But it's like it's like it hits me in the same place as Sims, you know, where it's just like an escape. And I'm just. Yeah, I have little goals unrelated to real life, and I'm just going for it.
Emily:
It's so funny because I play The Sims on computer game a lot when I was a kid and then I sort of stopped playing computer games and I didn't have video games or anything in adulthood. But now I live with my partner and he's got an Xbox One and during lockdowns. So like we've I don't know if you've heard this, but where I live in Australia, in Melbourne, we've had the longest time in lockdown in the world. So I've had to learn to really enjoy being inside, which is not a thing for me. I'm very outdoorsy, like active person and my partner is probably more like you. And so it's kind of been good like with him, like learning bits and pieces from him. But yeah, I got back into The Sims. I've also started playing my singing Monsters Playground, which is kind of like Mario Party, like little mini games, which has been really fun. But I might have to add Planet co-star because that sounds like my kind of thing you do.
Elana:
It is your kind of thing you need to and then you hit to tell me all about it. You would love it. Oh, my gosh. Just oh, my God. It's just so and like, you can literally make roller coasters like they have pre-made ones, which I use when I'm feeling lazy and I have a ton of like different themes. You can do like the fairy tale theme, you can do pirate themed, you can do like festive. I mean, they have like all these things built in, so like you can really deck it out anyways. I'm real me back because I could just, I, I have a problem.
Emily:
I love it. I pray that we don't go back into lockdown, but I've just started up again for the year with my PhD, so I am going to need some more downtime. So yeah, that could be a good one. The, the other question I have and I'm actually really interested to learn about this for me, what were you like as a kid? Oh.
Elana:
Okay. Do they have the show? Rugrats in Australia?
Emily:
Yes.
Emily:
Nickelodeon? Yes.
Elana:
Yeah. You remember the character Angelica?
Emily:
Yeah.
Elana:
That was me.
Elana:
I was bossy. I was definitely like the older sister. I had to be in charge and I like to think that that benefits me in the PhD. I don't think that I'm like that now, but I was like kind of mean and bossy. I look back, there's like a home video where I was like choosing. I was like playing dress up with my grandfather and marrying him in the living room, as one does. And I'm dressed in my grandmother's wedding dress and necklaces, and I look ridiculous. I'm six and, oh, I'm just so mean to him. You know, where I were walking down the aisle that I have created and I'm like, No walk straight.
Emily:
No like this.
Elana:
And I'm just like bossing him around. I feel like that's what I was like as a kid. Yeah, I was just a free spirit with a little bit of anger, but I don't know where the anger came from.
Emily:
It's not weird. No, I just like sometimes it's when people answer that question, it, like, gives me such a direct insight into why they've gone into the research they've gone into. But with your one, I'm a little bit of a loss.
Elana:
Oh, I know it. Let me help you there. No, no, let me help you there. I am a child of divorce. And so I'm getting a PhD in psychology.
Emily:
There we go. There it is.
Elana:
Yeah, totally, though. I mean, I think that I grew up with I mean, there were mental health things around me, just like any family, there's probably somebody dealing with something. But I think that I also just got interested in why people do what they do. I don't want to said like divorce created this interest like not really, but it was like I did go through hard times growing up and I think that I just got to the point where it was like, Why are people the way they are? And so I think that that just sparked different things. And, you know, my research now is in stress and immunity. So the way that stress in real life or the way that we handle things day to day, how that affects the way our immune system works. And we've all experienced stress. And I think that probably for my mental health reasons that we'll dive into stress was a big part of my teenage years. So that's probably where that all came from. Being like the bossy older sister. Just like a fun, fun. Add on to all the rest of that.
Emily:
Yeah. And I saw my parents divorce during my PhD a few years ago. And for me, like, that is kind of what triggered my interest in psychology because it kind of combined with a number of other factors kind of led to my rock bottom, I guess, and I've learned so much about my mind since that time, and I now really wish that I was studying psychology rather than biology. But yeah, look, later on and obviously this is a passion project for me, so I still get to learn about people and speak with people about this. But yeah, partway through a Ph.D. in molecular biology and just going to try and finish that one and then later on.
Elana:
Sure, sure. Yeah. So my parents separated when I was six, but the divorce was not final until I was 13. So there was a lot of years spent in court and it was like kind of a super messy divorce and you know, things are fine now. But yeah, definitely had some rough years with that. It was just it was just tough to watch your parents, you know, knocking along.
Emily:
Yeah, absolutely. So we will shift gears now into your mental health story. And I guess the first question around this is less related to PMDD and just more related to the landscape that we're in at the moment. So we are in the third year of a global pandemic. I mean, technically fourth, but how are you, I guess, given the pandemic and everything that's going on right now? I know it's such a loaded question, but.
Elana:
No, no, I do. I like as a as a podcaster, I'm like, no, I like this question because there's so much to talk about right now. I'm okay. In fall semester. I was about six months into medication treatment for PMDD for the first time in my life and fall semester beginning of fall semester. This year was probably the best I have ever, ever felt. Through the COVID situation, I had a lot of hope. I was regulating my mood really well. I was regularly working out, you know, things just all seemed like they were falling together. It was like I felt the best I had felt maybe in years. And then in October, my very first cat died completely unexpectedly with no warning. He was no health issues. He just started, like screaming at 2:00 in the morning, threw a clot and died in 60 seconds on our bedroom floor. It was super traumatic and shocking and so grieving that in this pandemic situation at the same time that like Omicron and a couple of the variants have been peaking where I'm like not reaching out to friends. Then to see them was really hard. And then my whole family got covered over Christmas, and so I didn't go home. So yeah, I'm now coming out of that darkness. I took a really solid break that consisted of 84 hours of Planet Coaster over two weeks. I know this because it shows me those statistics. I feel okay, things are still coming back together. I'm exercising regularly again and I'm just processing the grief. But it's been a wild ride. I want to say like every six months I feel like I'm feeling different than the six months before, but like, I'm I'm okay. And I feel like I have good perspective on where things are headed. And I'm just working really hard on, like, acceptance and self compassion.
Emily:
Mm hmm. Yeah. And it's like. So my grandpa died about this time last year. And I just say that because of the relatability with grief, it's just so weird during a pandemic because, like, I attended the funeral over Zoom, and I still haven't been able to go back to my hometown. Sure. Like where he was living. So, like, there's like still this disconnect, I think. Like, I'm not going to be able to fully, fully grieve and fully move on until I see where he was and see my grandma and see my dad. But it's yeah, it's so bizarre how the pandemic impacts everyone in such different ways.
Elana:
Yeah, I feel like being at home has been really triggering for me actually, because in the pandemic, like pets were such a source of like comfort and like joy. And I mean, like you said, your partner's like more of a homebody. I mean, there are times I stay home for five or six days at a time because I don't need to leave my house. And I feel no effect from that whatsoever. Like it literally. I don't even notice that I've stayed home for five or six straight days, which is like problematic, but it's fine. And so being home and then feeling his absence constantly and because of COVID not really being able to go anywhere else because it's winter here, that has been tough. And so it's been a lot of like, I need to approach those feelings and process them or I'm going to like be triggered every single time they come up. So I've just been trying to like allow myself to cry it out when I need to. And I have other cats. Luckily, it's not like we're completely empty household now, but just that's been really tough and like a kind of a similar way. Like I guess I haven't been able to have distance from it and that's been tough for me. Like I wish I was on campus more not because of, I mean, I don't like literally want to be on campus like COVID, but I wish I had more distance from this place that is like his. His place with me was his place with me.
Emily:
Yeah, yeah. It's such a it sounds like it was such a shock.
Elana:
Huge. It was for. Oh yeah, yeah. It was awful. I'm like, I'm like circle of life.
Emily:
So moving into PM D Day, I guess. Yeah. So before recording you indicated and you've mentioned it in this episode as well, so you were diagnosed with premenstrual dysphoric disorder and you indicated that was in high school and that it was sort of well managed with birth control. And then in 2018 you switched birth controls and slowly it started to return. Yeah. So by the time COVID hit, the stress of the global pandemic kind of really let it run wild. And you described it this way and you said you found that every two weeks you were anxious, you couldn't sleep, you were picking arguments and questioning your life choices. But then the other two weeks you were motivated and happy and content. You finally chose to start an SSRI in April of 2021 to address the PMDD. And you said it's completely changed your life.
Elana:
Yes.
Emily:
So, yeah, definitely appreciate you sharing all of that. And it kind of does give a little bit of an idea of what PMDD might be like. But could you maybe describe like what it is and how your diagnosis unfolded?
Elana:
Absolutely. So. I will say that in high school, I probably did also have depression. Like when I look back, I wasn't diagnosed. Like when I look back, I was like, yeah, I was not good. So in high school, it was I was a teenager and I was moody. But then leading up to my period, I had similar symptoms to what I have now, which I'll explain in a bit. But it was actually diagnosed by my primary care physician. It wasn't like diagnosed by a gynecologist, and I was on hormonal birth control. I think I was on the pill in high school. And because that was so systemic and it sort of stopped some hormonal changes that occur with your period, it stopped the symptoms. The change that I had mentioned in 2018 is I went from a more systemic birth control to an IUD. Still hormonal, but an IUD really just releases hormones within your uterus. I mean, it kind of goes systemic, which is why some people can have more side effects from IUDs. But in my case, it wasn't distributing hormones so much that it was stopping the full hormonal changes and cycle that happened with your period. Even though I wasn't getting a period, I was still going through the cycle hormonally. So what happens with PMDD? Let me explain the menstrual cycle, maybe just briefly to explain what's going on. So the menstrual cycle actually starts with the week that you bleed. So for about one week, your body is sloughing off, if you will, uterine lining that you're not using to store and house and grow a child.
Elana:
And so once that process stops. Your body goes through a process, sort of an exponential process of let me prepare again because, hey, maybe there will be a baby next time. And so it's sort of a slow burn that peaks about two weeks later. And we call that ovulation when the body is like, this is the best time to put a baby in me. And leading up to that, your hormones at a pretty low normal level that starts with when you bleed until you're oscillating and then after you ovulate, your body is kind of like, well, fuck this. Where is the baby? I'm just going to bleed out. And when that happens, there's some changes with estrogen, testosterone and progesterone. And it's all of those super fun hormonal changes that affect me with PMDD. And so the weird thing with PMDD is I don't have symptoms when I'm on my period. In fact, the day that my period hits is like the best day of the month because within a single day I can physically feel my body. It's like feels like it's lifting on the inside. It's kind of wild. So on a regular schedule of every four weeks, I hit a day during the month when I just get so frustrated and anxious. And when I say anxious, I mean I am convinced I have cancer.
Elana:
Like, I get super anxious about my health. I start feeling my thyroid. I do not have a thyroid problem, but I like will be convinced that my thyroid is enlarge, taking pictures in the mirror, you know, googling symptoms. And when COVID hit, of course, it switched to a focus on that. When I mentioned questioning life choices, I would once a month be convincing myself that the person I've been dating for seven years is not the right one for me. For all these reasons, he wouldn't do anything differently, but I would find all of these things and be like, This isn't the one. What are you doing? I mean, it's all of that. Like, negative thoughts, spirals would just go. I would also bloat like crazy, like 5 to £10 of water weight at that time, which would kind of affect my body image, a lot of irritability and crying. I would find myself typing and doing work for school and just like crying at my keyboard. And I've eventually learned to just stop working on those days, but just just hard. All of that would be intense and then it would magically disappear. And then I would have a week or two of normalcy, and then it would come again. And for me, I mean, I knew it was a problem, but it was still kind of a normal for me. Like when I was on systemic birth control pills, I noticed these things, but it would be more like PMS, right? We all get a little bit irritable, we all get a little bit whatever.
Elana:
And like as a female, as a woman, I feel like I live. We live cyclically the day we get our period until the day we hit menopause. We just kind of live cyclically. So it wasn't weird for me that I felt like, oh, this time of the month, this this time of a month, the month that my partner, however, a male, a a very heterosexual, cisgender male, was like, What the fuck? I love you so much, but also I am dying. Are you dying like we're dying? And I felt really bad because he was being affected by this so much more than I knew or understood. And he finally just had a conversation with me where he was like, I think you're suffering. Like as much as it was affecting him, he was like, This is really hard for me to watch for you. Like, I don't think you're okay. And he felt super powerless because I would be a whole, whole mess arguing with him, crying, being like, Are you the one for me? And then like days later for no reason whatsoever. Then a hormonal change we can't physically see. I'd be like, You're the love of my life. I would be like, I can't wait to marry you and have children and oh my God, you know, I'm feeling so good about this project now.
Elana:
And do you want to go on a date? You know, it was like whiplash for him on and on, on repeat. And so if you ever Google the symptoms for PMDD, I have all of them except for one, which was suicidal thoughts, about 40% of people. This might be the wrong statistic, but I believe that the statistic is 40% of people with PMDD have suicidal thoughts or have attempted suicide because it is so intense. It is like having a mood disorder for two weeks out of the month and then it magically goes away. It is so much whiplash and for me the whiplash was the problem. It was just a lot. And I kind of felt crazy because it's like your mind would trick you. I would be like, next month it's going to be different, right? I'm going to catch it next month. Here are the things I'm going to do. Here's how I'm going to take care of myself. And by April 20, 21, I mean, I really just got to the point where it was like, it's okay that I can't control this. Like, I just had to come down to like, this is not a moral failing. My body has a sensitivity to hormonal changes and what I'm doing isn't managing it. And that also isn't a moral failing. And maybe there are other things that can help me manage it which. Gets into eventually how I handled it.
Emily:
Thank you for being here. I kind of poured my heart out at the beginning of Episode 19, acknowledging how difficult it is for me to value my own work and what it's worth. If you heard that, you'll notice the podcast now has a donations page. I'll personally acknowledge support is the first episode of every month. This will never be a paid podcast. It's too important to me that it's accessible. But if you find value in these episodes, have some spare change and feel like you'd like to contribute to running costs. I'd sincerely appreciate you buying me a coffee. Support the podcast at Buy Me a Coffee Forward slash VOA podcast. After all, I'm a PhD student on a budget producing a podcast on the side.
Elana:
But it was just. It was confusing. I didn't know which one of me to trust. The one questioning my life choices. Or the one who was happy with them. And it affected my PhD, because for two weeks out of the month, you know, I was getting a quarter of the productivity done that I needed to and projects were getting done slower. I mean, it really, really infiltrated every aspect of my life.
Emily:
Yeah. And totally understandable. You know, that really gave an idea of what that would have been like for you and for your partner as well. And I actually love your explanations of the menstrual cycle, too. It's like quite kind of humorous at the same time as being educational. I love that. And again, like, I just it's crazy that we don't get taught this stuff as young women. And I've only really recently just started like tracking my own period. And I've been using an app called Flow, which provides a lot of education around the different stages of the menstrual cycle, and how different nutrition can impact your hormones and impacts your brain function. And there's just there's so much information. Yeah. Like the questioning your life choices like I can. That happens to me when I'm stressed. For me, I think it's anxiety that kind of like leads me into that. In, in my experience, it's, it's the same thing. It's like my partner hasn't done anything differently, but it's just like the way that I'm reacting to it and my perspective of it has just, like, totally flipped and it's, yeah, I can totally understand, like, not knowing how, like, which part of you to trust and like is it actually happened to me like in the lead up to my, my final milestones or my final talk and report and my literature review for my PhD being due at the end of last year.
Emily:
I was so stressed and working so much that it kind of like led to this spiral. And it's so frustrating that like when there's something difficult in your life, it then like bleeds out of everything else. And it was making me question our relationship and like whether I want to be with him long term and all this kind of stuff. And like I voiced it with him and I was like, I think this is happening because I'm stressed. I think it's just a temporary thing, but it was like impacting my thoughts and the way that I was like feeling about him. So then it was impacting the way that I was behaving towards him and he was noticing that and I didn't want to talk to him about it because I was like, I think this is temporary. Like, I don't think it's real. I don't want to worry him with like these thoughts of like maybe wanting to break up with him out of the blue after four years.
Elana:
So that would happen to me too, except I would keep it in and this would happen every two weeks. And then afterwards, when I wasn't going through PMDD weeks, I'd be like, lol, a couple of weeks ago, I like wanted to break up with you, but I'm so glad I didn't. And he would be like, What?
Emily:
What the fuck.
Elana:
What? And you're right, it totally comes from anxiety. Like that is it just gets so heightened and I can't focus on anything else and I obsess over it like as a, as an academic, like we analyze, right? I was like it was like treating them like hypotheses. Like I would really go through like what are the facts? Like going through the whole thing. I would overanalyze it and like so actually I learned more about this from Reddit as one does. There's a PMDD page on Reddit and the whole like, I want to break up with my boyfriend two weeks out of the month and then like I don't it's a thing for PMDD and they don't know why there's even a PMDD Partners page on Reddit for people dating people with PMDD because of how hard it is. For some people, it is really impairing on relationships and it's really tough and it's totally out of my hands. For me, it was like I felt out of control of it. Like no matter what I did, this shift was going to happen every month and it would be like I felt so let down because I'd be like, No, now I'm going to control it now.
Elana:
Like I'm looking out for it and I know it's coming. It's like when you discussed leading up to like your finals and things like that, it would be like knowing that's coming every month and being like, No, no, no, this time I'm going to handle it differently. And no matter what you did, exactly how you felt during finals happened anyways, no matter what you did, and then you would get complete 100% like euphoric relief. And then it would happen again and again and again and again, no matter what. And as somebody studying psychology and who was a therapist, I was like, Why can't I manage this? Like, What's wrong with me that I can't manage this? Like it was really a mind fuck. Like, it still kind of is. But spoiler alert to our next episode. My symptoms are completely eliminated right now, so shout out the treatment options, but super, super, super empowering for me in my personal life.
Emily:
Yeah. And that's the kicker. Like, you know, I maybe experienced a couple of times a year and for you like to have that like.
Elana:
And for two weeks out of the month. Yeah, two and two weeks. Not like three days leading up to my period. Like weeks at a time. I was a different version of myself and I couldn't do anything about it.
Emily:
So, so just to clarify, I guess so you started your PhD. Did you start that in about 2016?
Elana:
I started my PhD in 2017. Fall of 2017, yeah. August of 2017. Which is different than Australia.
Emily:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So when you switched your birth control, you were sort of still in your first. Well, it was about a year.
Elana:
Yeah, it was like beginning of my second year. I was at a practicum site doing clinical training and one of the older grad students, we had a lot of downtime and we just started talking about like birth control and she was like, I love my IUD, blah, blah, blah. And it was, I was, I had the implant, the next splint on implant in your arm and I had a lot of side effects from that, but I was like, whatever, because off birth control. Yeah. But I was like, but off birth control, I'm worse. But then I switched to an IUD because it was similarly like it's in and I don't have to worry about it. And I was like, I'm 23, 24 now. Like, I'm not going to have the same issues I did as a teenager. Like I was just a hormonal teenager. And then I was wrong.
Emily:
Yes. So I had the implant on Rod, I think. So. I actually went on birth control when I was 17 because I had really irregular periods, so mine would come every like six months. Oh wow. I was lucky. Yeah, that's happened ever since I started menstruating at 12. So at 17 I went on to birth control and that totally regulated it for me. And then I was on that for years and years and years and years, like taking the pill. And then I switched onto the rod a few years before I started my PhD, I guess because yeah, I was like so much cheaper. Like I can just have it in my arm. It's going to do its thing. I don't have to remember to take a pill every day. Like, great. And yeah, that was a lot of kind of research around that, potentially causing some mood swings. And, you know, I mean, a lot of the birth control, regardless of what it is, kind of has that because it's playing around with your hormones. Right. You know what?
Elana:
And it eliminates that in me. I actually get the opposite effect for all birth controls. It eliminates the mood problems. Whereas for most people it instigates that. Yeah.
Emily:
Yeah. Interesting. So I had some issues with that, but I, it was really difficult to tell if it was because of that or if it was because I'd just come back from living overseas and I broke up with my boyfriend and I'd started like a new job. Anyway, I actually had it taken out like a year into my PhD and funnily enough like around that time is also when I started to experience much more severe depression as well. So I've always like wondered if that was, there was so many other factors, but I've always wondered where they're coming off that. And like the hormonal shifts of that cause kind of like impacted me. I actually have not gone back on birth control.
Elana:
Oh, my gosh. You know what's so interesting about that is, like, I feel the opposite. I'm more, like, afraid to go off because, like, the other thing that I would get with my period is like, really intense cramping and, like, almost passing out, almost throwing up when I was on my period. So birth control also solves that for me. And so one thing that my partner Luke and I talk about regularly is like, what about when we want to have kids? Because as we'll talk about in a bit like the medication that I take cannot be taken when you want to get pregnant and shouldn't. Right. So it's one of those things where as I think about being an academic who will probably be on post doc applying for. Tenure track positions, God willing, being the worst that my mental health will be in my adult life trying to get pregnant. And then like, how's pregnancy going to go? Pregnancy will either do what birth control did and like just be consistent. Like that's why I'm on a consistent birth control. So I have less of the ups and downs or I'll be a huge mess and like we don't know which one and there's no way to find out beforehand to be like, is this something that we're interested in trying? But we're both like, we desperately want to be parents one day.
Elana:
Like, that's a huge thing. Like, I've always wanted to be a mom, so it's one of those things that like, I'm very sincerely going to have to like sacrifice my well being probably to get pregnant, be pregnant and have a baby. And that kind of sucks. It's one of those things that, like I know is in my future, but I haven't really faced yet because I'm trying to do this thing where like I'm in the moment and I don't worry too much about things in the future. It's going really well. But that's another thing down the line where it's like, even though I'm well managed right now. We're not it's not done right. It's not over till menopause. So we have a journey. I have a journey ahead that I'm really just at the beginning of managing. Yeah.
Emily:
Oh, my God, that sounds so tough. And I. Yeah, I would be really interested to learn about what it's like at different stages of that process.
Elana:
Yeah, me too. Yeah.
Emily:
You can. You can let me know in the future.
Elana:
Yeah. Maybe I'll start a podcast pregnant on PMDD. Pmdd and pregnant.
Emily:
It's like that. What is that? Kristen Bell. All that stuff about, like all the shitty stuff that happens when you're a mom. Like, all of I won't go into it. I'll probably.
Elana:
Yeah, I need something like that where it's like preparing to be pregnant with PMDD. Like, you know what? God, I'm so mad that I said that out loud because it's going to be like, I'm going to start post doc and be like everyone after so many years do your grad student is over and I'll be like, and now.
Emily:
I.
Elana:
Am mentally unstable and trying to get pregnant, fall along in my journey. And you know what the worst part is? People fucking.
Emily:
Would.
Elana:
So just know it's not happening. God I would be so mad if that just gave me idea this is going to fester in my.
Emily:
Mind for the next five years.
Elana:
Until I try to get pregnant and I'll blame you.
Emily:
I'm so sorry.
Elana:
And, like, that'll be the thing that I'll, like, launch my career, and I'll be like, who needs an academic career? I'm a.
Emily:
Podcaster. Oh, there you go. I mean, I claim I'm going to claim your success. It's all me.
Elana:
My mentors. Worst nightmare. But anyways.
Emily:
So how long after switching medications did you notice kind of re-emergence of some of your symptoms.
Elana:
Switching birth controls or.
Emily:
Switching? Yeah. Birth control. Yeah.
Elana:
Yeah. Years. Wow. That's the wild thing. Yes. So I was on the next plan on which is the implant and that's super systemic, right? Like that's a it's a low dose, but like it's a decent dose of hormones. And so just like when people go off the pill or go off birth control and try to get pregnant like that can take a few months for the body to get the period back and like really be in the swing of things. You can think of it like that. So I probably went from like first off, I had some next on side effects. I was more of just like spotting every day for eight months. Like that was super annoying. Like I was like, Can I stop bleeding? So once that started dwindling away, I think I felt normal for a while. I love my IUD. I cannot speak more highly of it. I saw a joke online somewhere the other day where someone's like, You know, girls who are on IUDs and love them. They're like multilevel marketers. They're like, I lift my IUD and you can too. Like, that's how I feel. But I really do love it. So I want to say I got the IUD in 2018 and October. Actually, I got it October 2nd, 2018. And I don't think that PMDD was like.
Emily:
Really.
Elana:
Really hitting me until COVID, which would have been that March, April 2020. And it was one of those things where it was like, I was probably having some issues before, but I was like, Man, I was managing it, right? I was like, Yeah, I have like a stressful week or two, but like, you know, it's fine. But the high stress of COVID, it was like whatever I was doing to keep that under wraps, it was like, Yeah, fuck that. Like, there's absolutely no way. Like, it was bubbling and it bubbled over, like, boiled over and it did that like a volcano for like six months a year. And I am terrified of medication. So it took me a very, very long time to talk to my provider about it. There's not a good reason that I'm terrified of medication. I just don't like feeling out of control of my body. I like I waited till I was 21 to drink alcohol. I never smoked weed.
Emily:
Like.
Elana:
I just don't know how things are going to affect me. And I get anxious about it like something we aren't even talking about today that is comorbid with PMDD. As I was recently diagnosed with ADHD and I was given medication that will help me and I have yet to take it because I'm scared of how it will feel, even though I know it will help me. This is a really fun game. I know it's super fun being me. Yeah, but it's like a thing. So it took a really long time for me to seek medication, but I'm super glad I did.
Emily:
And that, yeah, that was one of my questions for the next episode, whether you had hesitation to medication. Yeah, definitely so. Okay. I know you kind of indicated the impact that it was starting to, you know, the re-emergence of the symptoms was starting to have on your relationship. But I guess for people listening, probably really interested to know what kind of specific impacts it had on your academic life. So on your PhD, I know you briefly mentioned some of that, but can you kind of talk us through that a little bit more as well?
Elana:
Yeah, I think the thing that was so strange for me is I think everyone listening can probably relate to the feeling of burnout. You know, for me, burnout would feel like I would get to my computer and I just like physically could not whatever task was in front of me. Right? I would just like sit and stare at a word document or I would just get a couple of words down. But I couldn't keep thoughts in my head or or whatever. Burnout usually hits me at the end of the semester, and it was almost like I went from zero to burnout within two days. It lasted for two weeks and then it went away. And the reason I say that in relation to like academics is I would have to sort of force myself to work through my worst mental health days because at some point, like you can't take off two weeks every month. And it was frustrating because even if I was like, I need to take the rest of the day off, I could I could do that once or twice. And like everyone should do that if they need to in general. But because my symptoms happened so frequently in the way that they did, I got behind actually. It was affecting my relationship with my mentor for a bit because despite her acting like a normal mentor, I would have this like intense rejection sensitivity, which just I think can be common in depression or anxiety.
Elana:
Like things just can feel more intense or feel different than people mean them or even that other people would interpret them. Like we would have meetings. And then afterwards I'd be like, I am incompetent, I am an idiot, I am stupid, and they think I'm stupid. And like, none of that was true. And thinking back on those conversations now. Right, totally right. I was like, none of that is true. And thinking about the conversation, I was like, and they didn't mean it that way. But in the moments when I feel my very lowest, that's how I would take it. So I guess, I guess it didn't affect my relationship with my mentor. It affected the way that I thought my mentor perceived me. Totally separate from how they actually did. So it totally affected grad school. I mean, I would have this intense imposter syndrome and I would just get so mentally stuck that I, I couldn't get work done, anxiety about health, whatever it was related to COVID or thinking I had cancer or whatever it was, you know, I couldn't sit at my desk without Googling or getting obsessive over my relationship or or whatever. And it was just so distracting. It was it just got in the way of thinking.
Emily:
And it was really.
Elana:
Really tough. And then magically. I would wake up one day and all of that would be completely gone and I would get a ton of work done for like two weeks. The whiplash is hard because it literally would be in one day. All of a sudden I would start feeling hopeful. All of a sudden the conversation wouldn't feel as bad and I would reframe it and be like, No, this is what was meant. And I would look at that word document and be like, You know what? I have an idea on that now. And it'd be like all start unfolding. And then I would hit a roadblock again in two weeks. So it was hard for my work to start and stop and start and stop and start and stop. Every month all the time.
Emily:
It was really hard.
Elana:
Yeah, hard. I mean, I don't have symptoms now, but this is temporary because again, one day I'll want to have kids and have to go off all the medication that's helping me.
Emily:
So, yeah, because as I mentioned, I've like only just recently started kind of educating myself on different parts of the metro cycle. And, and that does, it has a definite impact for every woman on the kinds of tasks that we can complete and have the ability to do at different stages. And that's like natural. But then it sounds like PMDD is like that. It's on steroids like 100%.
Elana:
It's like the most extreme version. And the other thing I'll say, like for people who don't know, you know, it starts like right after you ovulate. Ovulation is usually a really tough time for people with PMDD, and ovulation is also usually the time of the month when you are. Horny, if you will. Like that's when you're like feeling most sexual desires. So the other thing that would happen is that would be like feeling great, feeling great, feeling great. I'd have like a day or two of being like, wow. Like, I'm kind of like, I feel great. Like, this would be a cool thing. And then the next day I'd be like, This is the worst day of my life. Everything is terrible. I feel terrible. The world is awful, you know, on that level where it's just so much, so much back and forth and whiplash on that. Like that can be the theme of this episode. My life was like whiplash for a while there.
Emily:
Yeah. So I mean, I have so many questions, but we are coming towards the end of, of this episode. I, I did have one thing, I guess. So if anyone is listening and they've found some of this, I guess relatable, they've maybe never heard of PMDD before, but now listening to you, they're sort of like, Oh, like that's maybe something that I would want to look into. Obviously, we're not medical professionals, but from your perspective, is there something that you would say for them to sort of look out for or first steps maybe for them to take if they think they might have PMDD? Yeah.
Elana:
Totally. I think the first thing that I'll say is just like. A lot of women will have PMS or just some mood changes around their period, but most people don't have PMDD. That is something that I have learned from researchers I follow on Twitter who are ironically in my field and studying PMDD, but also as a reminder to folks, most people don't have this. So I would look out for the patterns that do or do not emerge in your symptoms. And so if you're somebody who menstruate, who's worried about this, I would start tracking your mood symptoms and tracking your period symptoms, paying attention to when you start your period every month, and maybe seeing if that coincides with when your symptoms start or stop. So with PMDD, usually getting your period is when symptoms stop, usually two weeks before your period is when symptoms start. So for diagnosis, you usually need 3 to 6 months of consistently impairing symptoms leading up to your period. So my number one tip is get to know your body, get to know these changes and ask people in your life if you live with a significant other, ask them if they recognize it.
Elana:
Because I didn't understand how impairing it was for me until my partner sat me down and was like, You're suffering. And I was like, No, I'm fine. And he was like, You're you're not okay. And I had to listen and look at my life and realize I wasn't okay. So talk to those around you. And if you are somebody who menstruate, who has a gynecologist, you could always talk to your gynecologist and see what they say. Not everyone is super updated on PMDD. I go to a gynecologist, I go to a specialist, actually, who deals with, like, high risk pregnancies. That's my ob gyn, I should say, because I'm going to be high risk and I have mood problems. So if you know that your provider is someone you trust and who is up to date on these things, you can always have a conversation, but lots of this can be managed with changes to lifestyle, exercise and food. So not everyone has like the most extreme version of this. But yeah, track your symptoms, check in with people in your life and if you have a provider who you trust, you can talk with them as well.
Emily:
Amazing. So is there anything else you'd like to add in this part of your story for this episode before we wrap up? Eleanor Oh.
Elana:
That's a really good question. I think the biggest thing is just like the very I'm going to be super cliche, if that's all right, go for it. Just like the reminder that, like, we never know what someone's going through. Everything that I was describing was happening the first year of the podcast and being really honest, I don't think that people would know that listening back, I was super, super good at masking it, which affected no one but me at the end of the day. Right. I would come home and be even more exhausted just trying to act like I was mentally well and it wasn't always conscious, right? Again, it was just putting on a show to be like, No, I'm fine. So just a reminder that you never know what people are going through. And I would also like to give a reminder like, can we for more reasons than feminist reasons, like let's all stop joking about PMS. Yes, because it's living hell for me. Like in in high school, I did actually have suicidal thoughts surrounding it, but funny enough, like similar with being afraid of medication. I was afraid of pain. So I always used to say to my mom, like, I would go to her room and I'd be like, I really want to cut myself, but I'm afraid of pain. And she'd be like, That is fucked up. I'd be like, Yeah, that's fucked up. And then we would like talk and I would be okay. But like, it gets dark, like PMS isn't funny. Our body is going through nonconsensual hormonal changes every month. Like, we don't want this, but we have it. So I just I think that let's stop joking about PMS or even dismissing PMS as not real reason to feel poor. Yes, it's a real reason to feel like shit.
Emily:
Yes, like.
Elana:
My body is bleeding or is preparing to bleed. Like it's not a weakness. So I could go on about that, but I'm going to get off that high horse because it's going to get me hard on like social justice for women. And like, you know what? We're that's another episode for another time.
Emily:
Totally. But I'm so glad you said that. I feel very strongly about that as well. And actually using this flow app that I've started using to track my menstrual cycle and educate me about that side of things that was like this little three minute video about. So it was like it was a contemporary dance. It's so amusing. It was a contemporary dancer dancing out the different parts of the menstrual cycle, right? So it's educating, my God. But it's also like entertainment. But it was like this three minute video and it was fucked up. What happens to our bodies? And I just remember watching it and I was just like, Oh my God. And I showed it to my partner and he was like, Oh. No, it's. I kind of I'm pretty sure it's available on YouTube, so I might even try a link to it in this episode.
Elana:
Please link in an episode. Everyone go.
Emily:
Watch it. Yeah, that just wants to say, you know, all of that kind of like because you know, it happens to for me my cycle is longer than a month. So like it's not like condensed into a short period of time, but to like see it so you maybe don't notice the symptoms all that much, but to see it in like a, I think it was 3 minutes, see it in a three minute clip like all condensed together. It's like, yeah, this happens to us like all the time and I would say stress etc..
Elana:
Yeah, I do notice all of it. Personally, I, my body is really sensitive to those hormonal changes, but that is so funny. I can't. I'm actually going to go look for that video. That sounds fantastic.
Emily:
I'll find it for you. Thank you. So, yeah, I do want to thank you so much for sharing. Alana. You know, you spoke about quite some intimate kind of thoughts, I guess, and experiences that you have had over the last couple of years. And yeah, I think it's just it's so educational to sort of learn about the fact that this exists and kind of the impact that it can have on you. So I guess if people are listening and they don't experience this, these symptoms, it's possible that they might work with someone or have a friend that experiences this. And it sounds like such a tough thing to deal with. So I really liked your point as well of like, yeah, like you never know what someone else is going through. And so to have these underneath and then have a PhD and then have the pandemic and then have managing a long term relationship and a podcast, it's very.
Elana:
Very an interesting life choice.
Emily:
Yeah.
Elana:
You know, you.
Emily:
Reminded me creative outlet of you, you know.
Elana:
Yes. You remind me of one other thing I just wanted to reiterate as well before we end here, which is that it's just such a reminder of like mental health struggles that people go through. Like if you are somebody going through this or something else, like you not being able to manage it without a therapist or medication or in general is not a moral failing. I think that there is such a stigma like for such a long time it was this question that kept going around my head is like, Why can't I manage it? What is wrong with me that I can't manage it? And it's not a moral failing on my part that my body is sensitive to hormonal changes.
Emily:
Yeah.
Elana:
And so just remembering like that you have mental illness is not a failing, it just.
Emily:
Is. And you know, full stop speaks to me as well.
Elana:
Yeah, it just it just is for me. I find my failings is in denying my self wellness. My failing would be thinking I don't deserve to feel well in any way. So I'm changing my perspective and mindset around that.
Emily:
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I'm really glad to hear that you're sort of trying to work on that, I guess. And we will talk about that a bit more in the next episode. So I am really keen to hear some of the different avenues that you've used to help you manage this that might be useful for anyone listening. And just a reminder for you listening, if you'd like to get in touch with Elana, she's available on Twitter @Elana_Gloger, which will be in the episode description. She's also available in a whole bunch of other places that'll be linked. But yeah, thank you so much for listening close to the end. Stick around for details on how to share your own story. And I look forward to having you back in a couple of weeks to hear the next part of Elena's story. Elena will talk us through some of the support resources she's discovered, including birth control, SSRIs and the International Association for Premenstrual Disorders. Bye for now.
Emily:
Before you go, we have some support, resources and information for how you can share your own story. If this episode brought anything up for you, there are mental health resources and emergency numbers available for various countries at www.checkpointorg.com/global. For information found in this episode, refer to the episode description or visit the podcast section of our website.
Emily:
Ww W Dot Voices of Academia dot com. There you can also access the full transcript of this episode made available by our lovely Voices of Academia team member Daniel Ranson. This podcast was written, hosted and produced by me Emily, with support from some very special people in my life. You can find me on Twitter @EKing_Sci for science, but I'm part of the larger voices of academia team. We have a website, a Twitter account @AcademicVoices and also share stories in blog form with the option of them being anonymous. If you like this podcast and want to hear more stories, please leave a review. Subscribe. Tell me what you think on Twitter and tell your friends. The podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and most other major listening platforms. You can also follow the voices of academia, blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Just head to our website www.VoicesofAcademia.com to sign up. If you have a mental health or wellness story to share, we absolutely want to hear from you. Whether you're a team leader, research assistant, doc, student, ex-academic, or any other type of researcher, follow Academic Voices on Twitter. Visit the link in the episode description or visit our website. www.VoicesofAcademia.com. For details on how to share your story, it's time someone gave you a voice.
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