Ep23_Medication and Social Media Support_Seda Batillani.mp3
Ep23_Medication and Social Media Support_Seda Batillani.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Ep23_Medication and Social Media Support_Seda Batillani.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Emily:
Hello. If you're not already aware, these are frank discussions about mental health and illness. Please be mindful if you continue to listen and reach out for support if you need it. Today, we return to Scotland with Seda Batillani, a PhD researcher in linguistics, who opened up previously in episode 22 about anxiety disorder and pursuing an ADHD diagnosis as an international student. Go check out the first part of her story before jumping in here today.
Emily:
Today, Seda shares how she juggled medication trials with work, disclosed her medication use to a supervisor and started benefiting from social media accounts for people with ADHD.
Seda:
This was my first time using anything for my mental health. There was this whole thing of not knowing what to expect. At the same time, you have to keep on top of all these papers, all these deadlines group work, which is hellish for everyone. You know, anxiety or no? Thankfully, I feel like this is common knowledge for most people, but I will say it anyway in case it isn't. Please do ask your professors, do tell them, Hey, I've just started a new medication. This is going to affect me. Can you extend my deadline? I've gotten an extension on pretty much every project I had to do. None of my professors here in the UK told me, No, you know what? That's unprofessional or anything like that. I know this isn't the case for everywhere. This wouldn't have been the same in Turkey at all. I sympathize with different contexts, but for anyone who's in a similar place like me, do tell your professors they will usually be sympathetic to your situation!
Emily:
It's the first episode of the month, so I want to thank the podcast supporters. A sincere thank you to Dr Viviana Rae, Professor Mark Reid and an anonymous donor. Your generosity helps keep the podcast going.
Emily:
If you find this episode valuable, have some spare change and also want to be a supporter, you can do that at BuyMeACoffee.com/VOApodcast. Thanks again.
Emily:
Welcome to Voices of Academia with Emily King. It's a podcast where researchers from around the world open up about their mental health. They might laugh, cry or say things you disagree with, but this is lived experience, not professional advice. We cover some sensitive material, but it's worth it, to normalise difficult conversations, reduce stigma and help people feel less alone. Let's get into it.
Emily:
All right Seda, welcome back to the podcast.
Seda:
Thank you. It's nice to be here again.
Emily:
So as I mentioned in the last episode, you were one of the very first people to sort of come forward when voices of academia mentioned that we were going to expand to a podcast. So I just want to thank you again, you know, for your patience and for sticking with me, I guess, on this learning journey of how to make a podcast. And being here today. So we learned a bit about your life before you opened up about your story in the last episode, talked a bit about your wedding and your Italian partner and your linguistic research, which I found really interesting. And so similarly, today, I've got a few questions to get to know you a little bit better sort of outside of your research before we talk more about your mental health and how you've been able to support that more recently. So in your downtime, is there anything you sort of reading or listening to or watching that you're particularly enjoying?
Seda:
You need to give me a time frame because within the last two hours and the last five days....
Emily:
Oh, OK. All right. So in the last like two days, what's like one thing, one media thing that you've really enjoyed?
Seda:
Oh, this is going to be such a millennial thing, but like just YouTube? Yes. So I've just I've just been watching a lot of oh, actually one of the things that we've been watching a lot with my partner recently is this guy on YouTube called GeoWizard. And what he does is he streams himself playing this game called GeoGuesser, which is basically a Google Maps Street View based thing. So on, you know, Google Maps has the Street View things?
Emily:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seda:
So it just sort of it has a variety of maps, and the game basically just drops you in some random street to your place. And you have to guess where in the Earth, like where in the world they are.
Emily:
Wow!
Seda:
And this guy is insanely good at that. So so that's what we've been sort of watching in the past two or three days.
Emily:
Cool.
Emily:
I'll check it out.
Seda:
Yeah.
Emily:
What about who are you closest to and why?
Seda:
Oh, I mean, that's going to be my husband, I guess! Yeah, I mean, we're really good friends. We were really good friends before dating as well, and I feel like it's just the sort of, you know, the family you choose type thing. I mean, he's the family I chose right and to to to choose that sort of thing. There's a lot of effort and communication and love that goes into building that sort of thing. I don't know. I'm just I'm just really happy with mine, to be honest. So it's just like having your best friend all the time next to you.
Emily:
I just saw you light up on the camera, and it's so beautiful to watch.
Seda:
Yeah.
Emily:
And the final one is, do you have a bucket list? And if so, what's at the top of your bucket list?
Seda:
Oh my god. See again, you need to give me a timeline because I got like a bucket list for the next year...?!
Emily:
Good point. No, it's good for you to pull me up on that because yeah, I like to learn, you know, how to interact with different people. So what is something that you would like to... What's the top thing that you would like to do in the next five years?
Seda:
Oh, well, that's my answer is so bleak to that, to be honest. What is it? It's just, it's basically just to be able to settle in a country for like longer than two years or a three year period. I'm sure some people will relate to that as academics, for sure. Yeah. So I guess that's not sort of like an all adventurous bucket list thing, but that is definitely at the top for me.
Emily:
No, but it's yes, stability like a core human needs, so.
Seda:
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.
Emily:
Well, I hope you're able to do that.
Seda:
I really hope you do.
Emily:
So just a social media shout out at the start of this episode for anyone that's unable to listen to the end when I'll do that again. If anything that Seda shares today resonates with you, you can get in touch with her on Twitter @Alassopairts, and I'll put the link to that in the episode description. So we talked a lot in the last episode, covered so many things! Really really great episode, thank you! But just to recap, we talked about some of your early memories of severe anxiety and how that, you know, it really sticks with you even now, you know, the memories are so strong from 10 years ago. So it just highlights, you know, the impact that anxiety can have on people. You moved from Turkey to Scotland for your masters and you're still there for your PhD. That was associated with, you know, isolation and some loneliness. Moving to a new country and your treatment as an international student also exacerbated anxiety to a large degree. You've had some initial negative experiences with medical professionals, which unfortunately is not uncommon and I think was a really important thing to talk about. And then you had to switch between countries and their medical systems as you were kind of navigating medication for anxiety and trying to pursue this ADHD diagnosis, which was sort of put on hold for a bit. But you're now back pursuing that again. So we covered a lot in a great episode. If you listening haven't listened to that, definitely go back and check it out.
Emily:
So today we'll talk a little bit about your medication journey. So you mentioned you started on medication for an anxiety disorder during your masters.
Emily:
And then also, I guess some of what you've learned in terms of, you know, who to surround yourself with and and how to advocate for yourself as well. So you said it's really important to let others know when things get hard for you and you don't have the capacity to do certain things because mental health needs are just as valid as your physical health needs. And I totally agree. So that's something I'm super keen to talk about. And finally, not to be too hard on yourself and to surround yourself with people who will remind you of your worth. And that's another thing that I definitely can relate to. So we'll see how we go. Probably a lot to cover again, but let's let's see how we go. Yeah. So I guess so. You mentioned in the last episode that you the first medication that you went on for anxiety was fluoxetine and you did have, I guess, some insomnia as a result of that. And it was a little bit difficult to know, you know, if it was working for you or like when you should maybe consider switching and that kind of thing. How has your sort of journey with medication developed? And also, I guess what effect do you think that's had on your studies in academia? Because as I mentioned, you know, in the last episode with my experience, I wasn't having to juggle studying and, you know, going through medication trials. At the same time, I was on intermission, and I can totally understand how trying to do those two things at once would be very challenging.
Seda:
Absolutely. So, yeah, it's been like you said, it has been very challenging and it has been certainly very like it had a lot of ups and downs to it, let's say. And I mean, we haven't really touched on this a lot, but of course, with medication therapy sort of went hand in hand as well. I mean, I'm still in therapy as well, and that's a huge part of the whole. I want to say treatment healing process. Absolutely. But as with everything, when it comes to therapy, you need to see a lot of professionals to find the right fit as well. So this whole thing like finding the right medication or finding the right dosage, switching some of the meds. So I think from 2006 end of 2016, beginning of 2017, so that would make for years, right? In the last four years, I think. I've been switched to maybe five different medications like some, you know, at the same time as each other. That type of thing. But at the moment, I'm on this one, just one medication venlafaxine, and that has been stable for, I don't know, like two years.
Seda:
I think I had been on a higher dosage up until, like five six months ago, but I just wanted to sort of lower the dosage because I wanted to see how I'm faring, because that was for my anxiety mainly, and I wanted to see if I still need this. I was taking it quite quite a high dosage and I wanted to see if it was. Better, if I had gotten maybe a little bit better at managing my anxiety and we did lower the dosage a little bit, and I am actually happier on this one, so I suppose that's one of the things that at least I don't hear as much. I hear a lot of people talking, maybe doing really abrupt things like, Oh, I quit cold turkey and I'll never go back to medication or whatever, you know, like these really strong opinions when it comes to medication. But I mean, in my own experience, I like, I see that it's more like a checks and balances type thing rather than a very rough edges. Very strong cut points.
Emily:
Yeah. And if I if I may like, that's something it's interesting that you're on venlafaxine because first of all, I've trialled that, but also as a medical rep for a year and a half. And venlafaxine was the anti-depressant that was my first line, you know, medication that I was promoting. So yeah, I learnt through that experience as a medical rep learning about depression and anxiety and how to treat it and speaking with doctors about that and also through my own personal experience that it's really not advised to come off medication, cold turkey like that. And you know, I guess it might work for some people, but in terms of the medical recommendations, it's it's not recommended. And there are lots of different reasons for that. But you know, you can experience side effects from doing that. Also, a lot of people come off medications because they feel better. And so, you know, you can think that you don't need it anymore, but then you come off it and realize that it was the medication that was actually helping support you to feel better. And then my psychiatrist has actually indicated to me that once you come off the medication and you go, if you try to go back on that same medication, it's actually not guaranteed that it's going to work in the same way for you the next time. So there are so many different considerations. So I just wanted to just sorry to interrupt there, but I just wanted to bring that up and just say, I think it is really important to, you know, consult with your medical team. When you're looking at shifts, you know, increasing decreasing doses, coming off, going on, changing medications, all that kind of stuff. It's really recommended that that being in consultation with medical professionals.
Seda:
Thank you for adding that because yes, that is very important. I mean, I wouldn't have done this on my own. I really shouldn't. My health is way too important to do that, to be honest. You know, so but we did go a little bit like on to a lower dosage, and I was happy to see that it was like the right choice to do, if that makes sense because I felt more. I don't know how to put it into words, but. I felt more at peace or like more myself once we sort of lowered the dosage a little bit and I'm not saying like, Oh yeah, I'm like at the end of the day, the goal is to, you know, completely stop all medication like because there's that sort of idea behind when you tell people that you're getting like getting some sort of like, you're getting medicated, right, they're going to be like, Oh, for how long? You know, for however long it takes, OK, like you don't. You don't ask someone, Oh, for how long are you going to take insulin for your diabetes? That's not a question you ask! So, you know...
Emily:
That's a really good point, you know...
Seda:
That's just something I really wanted to bring up in that sense. Now, Remind me of the question again. I'm just trying to remember if I missed something.
Emily:
So, yeah that's OK. So your journey, I guess, with medication. So you're obviously on something now that was working for you for a couple of years and you've now lowered the dose for that and you seem to be coping quite well, I guess. Yeah, I'd make a comment as well about how you said that you feel a bit more like yourself, and it's kind of difficult to put that into words. I think, I think I understand that my, my psychiatrist, when he was considering different medications to trial me on, he mentioned that some of them can really... They can kind of like, block your personality and make you feel kind of disconnected from yourself. And some of them can kind of dull you in a lot of different areas. And I guess the point of that is, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I guess the point of that is to, yeah, like, disconnect you from the pain. And so that can be necessary for me. He chose to go with something that was less likely to do that so that I could better engage with the therapy. And obviously, if that hadn't worked, then he he would have, you know, I did trial a few different medications before I found one that worked. But if we'd had to keep going, then he might have gone for something that, you know, did have those effects as well. But I'm sort of guessing that's maybe what you're referring to in that.
Seda:
So I mean, I don't want to like when I'm telling my story. I don't want to also invalidate some other versions of, you know, a similar story, perhaps like because I don't want to say like, of course. And you know, I was, I don't know, like the word mom gets thrown out a lot, and I don't want to say that a lot, you know, because but it's just it's hard to put into words if you haven't experienced that sort of thing, isn't it? So. Yeah. Like, I don't want to sort of offend anyone by using the wrong words, I suppose. But yeah, it's it's I did notice a change. It was kind of like. It was kind of like seeing the Sun after a long while, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. But in terms of navigating all this while doing the master's and the Ph.D., it was really hard. It still is hard, you know, because there's so many unknowns. I mean, I didn't have a history of medication beforehand, like before my masters. So maybe if you have that type of thing, maybe you know what to expect a little bit, but this was my first time using anything for my mental health. So there was again, like, like we mentioned in the previous episode, there was this whole thing of not knowing what to expect, not knowing whether it's working or not.
Seda:
You know, all these things. And at the same time, you have to keep on top of all these papers, all these deadlines group work, which is hellish for everyone, you know, anxiety or no? So there was a lot of things that you need to I need to take into consideration, but thankfully, and again, this is I feel like this is common knowledge for most people, but I will say it anyway in case it isn't. Please do ask your professors like, do tell them, Hey, I've just started a new medication and this is going to affect me. Probably. So can you extend my deadline? In none of my work like and I've gotten an extension on pretty much every project I had to do during my master's and PhD. None of my professors here in the UK specifically told me, No, you know what? That's unprofessional or anything like that, you know? And I know this isn't the case for everywhere, but I'm speaking for, like my experience in the UK. This wouldn't have been the same in Turkey at all. So I understand I sympathize with different contexts, but for anyone who's in a similar place like me, do you tell your professors they will usually be very sympathetic to your situation? So just wanted to highlight that?
Emily:
Yeah. And I guess even if you don't, you know, because I know a lot of people don't feel comfortable or feel safe about bringing up mental health with their supervisors, and that's totally valid. There's a lot of different reasons why that could be an issue. But I guess like even if you don't say what the medication is for and you don't feel comfortable about sharing, not just say I'm going on a different medication, they don't need to know what it's for. And you know, this could impact me in these different ways. I think that's another way that it could potentially be approached. That's like a little bit more private.
Seda:
Sometimes you don't even know. Like, I mean, I remember this one time I was doing a like, I had a one to one meeting with one of my professors for one of the classes during the Masters. And I told her, like, she was just like, Oh, how are you? You know, the general talk. And I think I said something like, Oh, I just started a new medication or like, I'm having terrible insomnia. And she actually told me, take an extension. I didn't know I could do that, you know? So it's really important to to again advocate for yourself in these in these situations. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Emily:
Can you remember like. You know, again, sort of any strong memories of how going through that journey with medication impacted your masters and your PhD.
Seda:
So one thing I really remember during my master's is at some point it got really bad to the point that so I was living in university accommodation. Six people in one flat. But everyone has their own sweet room, basically, and we share the kitchen. So that was the kitchen and lounge area. And it was it was at that point where my sleep cycle was completely overturned. And I remember I couldn't leave my room like I physically couldn't leave my room. I felt that bad at some point. And I remember, like a friend of mine, like I was like we were texting on WhatsApp. And she realized, like I told her, like, I can't leave my room. I feel terrible, you know? And she did actually come over and brought me some food, freshly made food and everything. And that was really nice of her, honestly. But like, there were points where I'm not even talking about doing schoolwork, right? I'm talking about leaving my room and walking to the kitchen and preparing something for me. I felt like any cereal, you know, like and I just couldn't bring myself to do it and but I couldn't take a break. I can't. I have, I have deadlines coming up. There's just no way...
Emily:
Getting goose bumps from this! Its taking me back as well.
Seda:
Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure like. And it's that was that was like a really dark point for me during my master's, and I think I took the biggest hit during our thesis part. So in the UK, you have like a three month thesis that isn't very long. It's like for us, it was like 10000 words, basically. So you're expected to do that in three months. And of course, I was terrible with project management. At that point. I'm I'm I'm much better now, so there is hope. But at that point I didn't. I didn't. I simply didn't know how to do it, and I was going through a like, really painful relationship with someone. And so I just like I couldn't do anything for like two months. I didn't talk to my supervisor. I didn't do anything. I couldn't open like a single article, and I just basically wrote my entire thesis in like two weeks. Wow. Yeah. Towards the end, and it wasn't good. I mean, I mean, it wasn't. It was. It was still good. It did get an OK grade, but it wasn't to my my standards, let's say. Yeah, that's a whole another can of worms. But yeah, yeah.
Emily:
But I mean, look, how could it be like when you're going through that? Like, it's it's yeah, it's very impressive that that you were able to even get that done and get that finished because I'm like, like I said, if I hadn't been able to take a break, there's just no way that I would still be doing my PhD. So that's it really is. It really is incredible that and I'm sure as painful.
Seda:
There's two things on this that I want to touch on when we talk about what has changed. So I don't know if you want me to talk about it right now or later on.
Emily:
So, yeah, yeah, go for it now. So yeah, so one of the questions I was going to ask was how you managed when things got hard for you, I guess, during your masters and then how that's changed for you now based on what you've learned during your day. So, yeah, go for it.
Seda:
Ok, so I think again, there's like, I mean, right now I'm going into my fourth year of my PhD. Like, as of now, and I'd like to say that a couple of strategies have worked wonders for me. Again, it's not a be all end all solution that's sadly not possible. I can't give you a quick fix about anything, but there were things that really worked for me, and one of them was This sounds very basic, but. Communication. So like I said, like just just now, I said I didn't talk to my supervisor at all during that period, you know, because I was so stressed and you know, we all go like, maybe not all of us, but we do go through these things and it's OK if you're best at that time was just not even being able to speak to your supervisor. It's OK. But I just want to remind people that just a simple email saying, I'm really struggling with this. Can I, for example, if you have a meeting coming up and I meet you in two weeks instead, you know, can I? Can I postpone this until like, I'll just update you on the time? I'm really sorry. You know, and this was partly thanks to my supervisors as well my my PhD supervisors, because they've been really helpful throughout my PhD in terms of establishing what's comfortable for me. Because like when I first met my first supervisor in the first ever meeting, I basically told her crying.
Seda:
I had anxiety and like, the stuff can be hard for me. Sometimes you basically. And she was. She has always been very, very accommodating. But now, like towards the end of my third year, we really got into a better understanding of of communication. So I would still like before that, I would still sort of sometimes ghost my supervisors so I wouldn't write to them, you know, or like I would be like, Oh my God, a meeting is coming up, but I didn't prepare the chapter or whatever, you know, and it's just. And there was always this anxiety of, of course, I'm stealing their time because I didn't prepare the chapter. Well, I mean, if you're thinking that just tell them ahead of time that you didn't prepare the chapter, so there's no need for the meeting, you know, so you don't steal the time and all that stuff. And I told them, you know, I just feel like I'm stealing your time when I reschedule things. And because like, your time is precious and there's always that sort of hierarchy that you feel right, these like professors. And then I'm just. Well, this this is my inner voice speaking, you know, the I'm just a Ph.D. student. I don't actually mean that with a conscious at a conscious level. But you know, these are things that...
Emily:
I know what you mean.
Seda:
Yeah, exactly. But I did tell them that, and that was hard. You know, just having that open conversation about, you know, I feel bad that you are two very highly accomplished scholars in this field, and I can't even bring you a chapter sometimes like you've given me two months and I have written what a subsection. I don't know, you know, and it just it just didn't work. And I just feel terrible because. It feels like it's not worth your time. And they were just like, please like be assured that that's not how we feel about this. First of all, you know? But secondly, just send us what you have at that point, and that's fine. Maybe you're stumped. Maybe we can give you some ideas about those two paragraphs that you wrote. Or even if you don't have a document, just write to us X and Y. This is what I'm thinking about nowadays. Like, this is what I've been mulling over. What do you think? Should I go over this? Even that is fine, you know? And when I went into my Ph.D., like at the beginning, if you told me that my supervisor would be like, Oh, just toss us an email, you know, like, just just send us something, you know, if if you told me that at the beginning of the PhD, I would be like that.
Seda:
That's not how a PhD works. Don't be ridiculous, you know? But no, I mean, actually, genuinely, it can be sometimes how the PhD works. It just it is a dynamic that you need to make your own. It's it's it's something that you have to figure out. There's no set way. And granted, sometimes some people might not be as lucky as I am when it comes to supervisors. I acknowledge that as well. But another thing about this whole, you know, how did I get better, I suppose, at navigating these things is I mentioned project management. Well, I didn't know the first thing about project management during my master's, and it honestly showed. But now I kind of know a lot of tricks around getting myself feel more comfortable about producing something anything. So before, before, when I was doing my masters, since I went into it, not knowing how to arrange my, you know, long term deadlines, projects and stuff. Everything was at the last minute. At the very last minute it was insanely taxing. But now, I mean, there's still don't get me wrong, there's still the ADHD element of it. Very much so. It's still very hard for me to stick to a schedule.
Seda:
At least one of the things that I can do now is OK for the next week. Realistically, you will probably maybe write a thousand words. Ok, that's fine. Just roll with it. This is just not the greatest week for you. Ok. And if you have like two or three deadlines coming up with a lot of projects, that's another problem with ADHD. We take on a lot of projects, you know, just just push them back. Tell people, you know, I can't finish this on time. Can you give me some leeway, you know, and just arranging this stuff around, not your expectations of yourself, but what you know that you might be capable of doing. You know, has has been really helpful for me. I mean, sometimes I'll sit down. I don't want to read the paper much like much less five, you know, just to write a paragraph. So what I'll do that day is I'll just open my word document and write whatever that comes to mind, you know, stream of consciousness, style, you know? And there is something in there, you know, I've done something and I still have some momentum. You know, that type of thing really kind of helps me in my journey.
Emily:
Yeah, and I think that's important to communicate to to any researcher, whether they have ADHD or not, because I can totally relate to that, you know, needing to be self compassionate and how much I've become better at doing that over the years of my PhD. I'm well, it's hard because I've become part time, but I'm I'm in my final year, I guess. And yeah, there are just there are waves. Like, there are weeks when you're super productive, super creative, like all of that complex thought is it comes quite naturally for me. And then other weeks, I'm just 7up like, I just can't do that style of work like need to shift to a different type of task. And those adjustments, I think, are really important with the supervisors and the communication. Yes, can totally relate to that as well. Like, I would absolutely go to my supervisors and I would just not rock up. So I am a lab based PhD student and I would just not rock up at the institute and just not say anything about it. And then, you know, after intermission and I'd sort of opened up to my supervisor a bit more. And he said, You know, if you can't do something, just shoot me a text like, just shoot me an email, whatever, just tell me you can't.
Emily:
You don't even need to say why. Like, just kind of let me know. And he reiterated that like again and again and again and again. And it took me so long to be able to actually do it like I would not go in and then be like, I know he told me that I should let him know, but I just I can't. And then the next day, I'd like go and see him and be like, I'm really sorry. I didn't come in yesterday and I didn't let you know, and I know that I should have, but I just couldn't do it. And and sorry, I know. So it's taken a really long time to, like, get comfortable with letting people know at the time and also not feeling this intense, intense pressure to justify it, because that was the other thing that I had like I wanted to, like, bled out. This is why I can't do it because all this stuff is impacting me and I don't know. Whereas now I feel like I can more just be like, Alright, I'm struggling a bit. Mm hmm. You know, not going to be able to do this. Like, I'll get back to, you know, like it's just takes practice. I think so. That's an important point to raise.
Seda:
And one of the things that really stresses me out very often in academia, particularly when I'm on Twitter or something, you know, is how people will sometimes bring up the hours of like how many hours a week they work for their PhD. And that's just I can't wrap my head around the numbers they give because probably I mean, everyone has their own calculation style, I guess, but I'll go out and say it like I I don't think on the most productive week I have, I don't think I can. I can work more than like. Fifteen hours writing a manuscript, I simply I simply can't, you know, and yeah, I see these like, I don't know, 35, 40, 45 these hours and I'm just like. Who is this helping, because it's not helping me?
Emily:
I think yet. No, I know there's a culture of overwork in academia and I guess that's related to this, but also kind of a separate point. But I think it's different in different fields. So like I said, I'm a lab scientist, so I need to juggle, juggle my lab work. But then I also need to juggle my rating and my note-taking and my research and my emails and my meetings and all the other stuff, whatever. But certainly, when I'm writing, I can't do more than two to three hours of that complex thought process in a day. I just similarly, I just it just like my brain, just shuts down. It's just like, nope. But as a lab scientist, you know, it means that once I lose the capacity to do that style of writing work, then I move over and I'll tackle some of the lab tasks. So depending on how much mental capacity I have left, then you know, if I don't have very much, then it means, you know, if I want to wash up duty, I'll just wash the glassware. I'll go get, you know, the milky water and fill up all the bottles for the lab. Downstairs, I'll label tubes for upcoming experiments. I'll clear out, you know, some of my storage in the minus 80 freezer to make space for other people. Some of those, you know, general kind of like mini style tasks that don't really, yeah, you know, and you normally put them off because they don't seem like a priority. But in those moments when I'm like brain dead, that's like exactly the kind of stuff that I can do. So, you know, for us, like I'm a part time, so I do 24 hours each awake, but full time lab science students, you know, will do, you know, definitely 40. And it's just because it's a different style and you can switch between different types of work. So I think that's where some...
Seda:
I suppose that's the thing. Like I it's like in my specific again context, it's very different. So I think the one thing maybe I can compare it to is when I was doing my field work. So ethnographic sort of linguistic ethnographic field work where I did have this task that I had to do x hours every day, you know, so when I when I lose that external structure, then I'm like, OK, how do I calculate how much I work? You know, it's it just gets to this really confusing gray area. And then that's where your stress starts coming in. You're like, Am I doing enough? Am I? Am I supposed to be doing more? No. And it's just like, that's where you need to sort of be like, do I think personally that I did the best for this week? Yes, it does. The best mean, maybe reading the abstract of one article and thinking about it for like 20 minutes. If the answer is yes, OK, that's that week for you. I'm sorry, it happens. Own it and move on. You know that type of thing.
Emily:
So going back to how you sort of adjusted your approach. So the other question I wanted to ask was how you've sort of managed some of your ADHD symptoms, even though you don't yet have a diagnosis. And I guess how that's sort of adjusted your approach to your PhD because my understanding is that a lot of the research around ADHD was done on males. So a lot of women, you know, get misdiagnosed or there's a delay in diagnosis and also that socially women tend to mask their symptoms a lot more readily because of the way that we're sort of socialized. So that's another reason why, you know, diagnosis can get delayed. So I think, yeah, I guess I'm not really familiar with like what some of the ADHD symptoms are for women because I think they present very differently. So maybe just could you mention what some of those are and and how you've tried to manage them through your day?
Seda:
I think it depends a lot on like it can present differently, but I think it kind of also depends on like the individual person, like it's it's it's sometimes better to not say, Oh, this is more of a female trait than the more of a male trait. I know there's like a there's a trend of like there's a trend towards that as well. Like, let's not gender the traits, it's more of a balance type thing. So for example, for me, I am very hyperactive. For example, I fidget a lot. I I mean, people who are listening to this podcast will realize that I do cut into your words a lot. You know that I can't help it, you know, because I'm just like a very hyperactive and that's that's usually seen as a very male trait, you know? Oh, like the boy who can't sit still or like, you know, intervenes with all this. So it's not a thing that you see a lot for. I suppose women. And so I feel like that kind of affects the way I might be seen by certain people. The whole, you know, is she assertive or bossy? You know, those those those types of things that we tend to gender, let's say some of them come from my my ADHD. And there's usually like the sort of stereotype of, oh, like the dreamy girl, you know, she just sort of daydreams away. And I don't find myself like the inattentive part basically is the idea there. And I don't really find myself fitting into that a lot. So there is that sort of, I suppose, a bit unconventional sort of presentation that I bring into the onto the table, I suppose.
Seda:
And I don't know. But anyway. And another thing is for me, it has a lot of emotional aspects then say for my husband, for example. So I have a lot of trouble regulating my emotions. And that's like an emotional dysregulation is part of it can be part of your ADHD symptoms. And so when I like just in the previous episode, for example, when I was talking about the whole exam thing, I was about to cry. And these bursts are really, really hard for me to manage and cope with. And this has put me in awkward situations during my academic career because you have the idea of looking quote unquote professional, and that doesn't leave a lot of room for expression in certain ways. Right. So if I start talking about something that's really hard for me, I will start clearing up. It will happen. It's not something I have control over. And that depending on the place that can deduct some points from how people view you as an academic, I feel like. And that's one of my worries going into the field, to be honest. Will I be taken? I don't want to say, will they be taken seriously, but I don't know how to put it. You know, that's one of my worries in that. Oh, like, you can't, you can't stay still. Like, whenever we talk about something sensitive, you start tearing up, what is this like? You know,
Emily:
This is something that's come up. Sorry to interrupt, but with Viviana in a previous episode as well, just talking about women and how you know some of our, you know, generally we are quite emotional and that isn't necessarily seen as a good thing within academia. And it's interesting that you say that it's sort of something that concerns you for the future because it's it's something that I've been sort of trying to manage as well is that I have recognized that I'm a I don't have ADHD, but I've recognized that I'm a very sensitive person. And in the past, that's always been framed in a negative light. I've been criticized a lot for that, and I'm only just starting to shift the narrative for myself and see the value in it and actually embrace it and just be like, You know what? Like, Yes, I'm going to get sensitive about things, but it's actually fun. And as much as it might be, it might make things harder for me in some contexts. And, you know, some people might judge me for it. I mean, actually, that's their problem, not my problem. But I know that it makes me very good at other in other environments. The fact that I'm sensitive and the fact that I can intuitively rate, you know, facial expressions and body language. And I pick up on a lot of things that a lot of other people don't. And so for me, it's a skill as well. So I've really tried to sort of shift that. But yeah, I can. I definitely understand like the challenge of having to manage, you know, emotional regulation in a field that that really doesn't value emotion in my perspective.
Seda:
Absolutely. And it's but like you said, you know, not only can it be like an actually positive thing, but the thing that we are comparing ourselves against is not something objective, right? Like being assertive is not an objective truth of the world. You know, being less emotional is not an objective truth of the world regarding how to be a successful whatever. These norms that we have are very much based on men like, Oh, you need to be more aggressive? No, I can't be aggressive. I can't do confrontation, you know, I'm like, that's not. That's not a but and that's not a problem. And maybe you shouldn't be aggressive. Maybe you should be using hedging words a lot, a lot more than you do. You know, like so flipping the narrative, I think, is really important. We don't have to put ourselves against this checklist that wasn't creating with us in the in mind to begin with. But of course, it does happen. You know, it's not something you can control. And sometimes I suppose I'm worried that in certain environments where I don't hold enough power, this will work against me. But that's just that's just, I suppose, one of the one of the things that I have to think about when it comes to that. You know, I'll cross that bridge when it gets to it. Yeah, but another thing that I have a lot of trouble with is something called rejection sensitivity. I know most people will have trouble. I don't know getting feedback and stuff like that. But for for people like us, it can be really, really devastating.
Seda:
And that's part of the reason why I was really bad at communicating with my previous supervisor during my masters because it was so scary. And I mean, granted, if you have rejection sensitivity, academic academia isn't the greatest place to work in. Basically, I can relate. So it's like, I mean, if everything you do, you send to someone so they read and bring back all the sort of, well, good parts too. But weaknesses that they see about that and your immediate thought is I am worthless. Look at all these comments, you know, and it's just so stressful to deal with that. So there is a lot of times where I get an email from. Someone for whom I did some sort of work, right? This could be my PhD. This could be like the project I'm working on with the Turkish side, the endangered languages thing and I will I will have to amp myself up to actually opening the email because it's so hard and sometimes it can. It can take very little time, but sometimes it can take days genuinely. So giving myself room and not beating myself up too much about it. When it happens, it's so it's so important. Like, Yes, this is hard for you. Yes, this is not hard for a lot of people, but this is hard for you. And that's the truth of you being you. So just open up to it. That's that's something I needed to learn. I had to learn. I'm still learning. Hmm. Hmm.
Emily:
Yeah. And you know, I guess it comes back to learning more about yourself and then accepting all those different parts of yourself and and coming up with your own narratives about it rather than what you know, you've been told by other people or what you've sort of learned based on societal expectations and all that kind of thing. So huge learning phase. But yeah, I think it's important to to highlight what some of those things have been for you and sort of how you've tried to adjust through your academic career. So we're coming quite close to the end of this episode as well. I did want to get you to touch on a couple of those social media accounts for people with ADHD. And then I also have one final question So so what are those accounts? And I guess, why do you find them useful for you?
Seda:
Again, this is, I suppose, so millennials less Gen Z of me. But it's just this guy doing TikToks telling people about his ADHD journey in a sort of humorous way as well, for the most part, but it is surprisingly very educating. He mostly does stuff explaining why he is the way he is to neurotypical people. So a lot of questions that he gets from neurotypical people and like, Hey, this is this is how I operate. You know, all these things and like when I saw those like those TikToks or Instagram Reels, whatever, he also has an Instagram account. I was like, Oh, OK, this speaks to me on a very personal level, and that's something you don't really get like when you go, you know, ADHD symptoms take a test, you know, that's not something you get a lot. So being able to put a face and a context and all these things on on on this condition. For me, it really helped with my own understanding of the condition. And the other account was, I think, at a mini what's that? I want to say underscore Yeah.
Emily:
Yeah, yeah. This one was at the underscore mini underscore ADHD underscore coach on Instagram.
Seda:
Exactly. So that's on Instagram. And they make more sort of infographic type things little really nice drawings about certain topics, like certain maybe symptoms that come up a lot in ADHD, like bite size information. So if you're really daunted by, you know, I feel I want to know more about this, this kind of resonates, you know, with me, but you're daunted. Like, you don't know where to start and granted ADHD like we don't really have. Sometimes we we can't really delve into a lot of strenuous mental exercise space, really. So it's really helpful to look through those things and try to understand them better. And then there's like additional resources that they put up know, like, learn more about this thing here and here. So it really catches your attention, grabs your attention, which you have so little of. Usually so. So those are like, that's why I like those two accounts a lot. I think they're very accessible. What I would say? Yeah.
Emily:
Oh, awesome. Thanks for sharing. And the final question I have is what advice you would give to someone that's experiencing ADHD symptoms and trying to, you know, juggle that with a research career. You know, whatever level that. What advice would you give to them sort of based on your experience?
Seda:
Mm hmm. So the first thing I would say is you are not alone. Yeah. As cliche as it sounds, you're really not alone. So one of the things I would absolutely say is seek out the other people that are on the internet. This great thing called the internet, right? There's a lot of researchers with ADHD and like other like articulate comorbidities, I want to say
Emily:
Adhd and other conditions.
Seda:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And other conditions. Yeah. So like ADHD and autism, for example, it's something that presents a lot and there's a lot of people. Researchers on Twitter, even sometimes on Instagram that you can find and connect with. And I think that's a very, very important part of this whole thing. Because when you like because like when you go on Twitter, you have the algorithm, right? So the more you start following these people, the more they're going to fall on your for you page. Like the main timeline, right? So they're trying to follow more of these voices will actually sort of create that special room for you and for your ADHD. And another thing I would say, I suppose, is. Ask for help when you need it. It is really hard to live with something that you can tangibly see. I know that it's really hard when you're sitting in front of, I don't know all your research papers and like mugs and food bowls and everything on that disgusting table in front of you. It's really hard to feel that you're not a failure or you're doing this to ruin yours. I know it's really hard, but please, this is not like a problem that you're having because you're lazy or because you're unworthy of this and that it's it's not that you have a condition. And it is within your rights to have bad days, it is within your rights to have messy environments. It is within your rights to not be quote unquote normal. Right. So remember that it's like if if you had both your arms broken, you wouldn't be like, why can't I tidy up my room? Your arms are broken. That's why. Ok, so like a similar thing. Even though you can't see it, there's something. There's a condition that you have to live with that hinders you from doing even the most basic things for other people. You have to accept that, and you have to own up to that. Basically, it's what I would say.
Emily:
Yeah, thank you. I think that would be really helpful for a lot of people. I hope so. I want to. Yeah, thank you again for sharing, and I'd love to keep in contact with you and learn more about different parts of your story. And also, yeah, best of luck with the rest of your day, I guess.
Seda:
Yeah. So and you as well. Thank you.
Emily:
So just a final reminder if listeners would like to get in touch with Seda. She's available on Twitter @alassopairts Parts and also via her email, which we'll put in the episode description that brings us pretty close to the end of today's episode. Thank you for listening. Really, thank you for choosing to share some of your time with us. I'd love to know what part of Seda's story resonated with you the most you could let me know on Twitter @EKing_Sci for science. Otherwise, I look forward to having you with me again in a couple of weeks. We'll hear from a special guest. It'll be just after the one year anniversary of the podcast release, and so I'm going to keep the details of that a little bit of a secret for now. So I'll see you then. Bye for now.
Emily:
Before you go, we have some support resources and information for how you can share your own story. If this episode brought anything up for you, there are mental health resources and emergency numbers available for various countries at www.CheckPointOrg.com/Global.
Emily:
For information found in this episode, refer to the episode description or visit the podcast section of our website www.VoicesOfAcademia.com
Emily:
There you can also access the full transcript of this episode made available by our Lovely Voices of Academia team member Daniel Ranson.
Emily:
This podcast was written, hosted and produced by me, Emily, with support from some very special people in my life. You can find me on Twitter @EKing_Sci for science, but I'm part of the larger voices of Academia team. We have a website, a Twitter account @AcademicVoices and also share stories in blog form, with the option of them being anonymous. If you like this podcast and want to hear more stories? Please leave a review. Subscribe, tell me what you think on Twitter and tell your friends. The podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and most other major listening platforms. You can also follow the Voices of Academia blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Just head to our website www.VoicesOfAcademia.com To sign up. If you have a mental health or wellness story to share, we absolutely want to hear from you. Whether you're a team leader, research assistant, postdoc, student, ex academic or any other type of researcher, follow @AcademicVoices on Twitter. Visit the link in the episode description or visit our website. www.VoicesOfAcademia.Com For details on how to share your story.
Emily:
It's time someone gave you a voice.
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