Ep17_Master of your own destiny_Henry Powell-Davies-3.mp3
Ep17_Master of your own destiny_Henry Powell-Davies-3.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Ep17_Master of your own destiny_Henry Powell-Davies-3.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Emily:
Hey, there. Today's episode touches on depression. Please be mindful if you continue to listen and reach out for support, if you need it. So I saw on academic Twitter that some people with a master's have labelled themselves as 'master so and so'! It's gold and I'm going to steal it. Today we return to Scotland with 'Master' Henry Powell-Davies, a chemist who opened up previously in episode 16, about making the difficult decision to exit his PhD with a masters. I highly recommend going back to have a listen to the first part of his story before jumping in here. Today, Henry shares the range of reasons for his choice, including insufficient supports for people with disabilities within the academic structure and the isolation of the pandemic. But he also discusses what supported him through the isolation, making this decision and moving on.
Henry:
I think it does need saying that, you know, it's, uh, it's hard because, you know, the system university system, for example, is built to appear to have all the support in place. You know, there is disability service and all that kind of thing. And you know, yes, I know the people that supported me did the best they could, and I don't want to slander them for any reason because, you know, in the time I was in, you know, the group at Glasgow, I did enjoy it to a point. But then, you know, everything coupled together, you know, with the practical work with the mental health difficulties with the pandemic, it all kind of just snowballed. And, you know, it all kind of contributed to that feeling of it's not fulfilling, it's not motivating. I'm not happy doing it. So, you know, what can I do instead?
Emily:
Welcome to Voices of Academia with Emily King. It's a podcast where researchers from around the world open up about their mental health. They might laugh, cry or say things you disagree with, but this has lived experience, not professional advice. We cover some sensitive material, but it's worth it to normalise difficult conversations, reduce stigma and help people feel less alone. Let's get into it, sir. As I mentioned in the last episode, Henry, I know you came forward because of a conversation that you'd had with Zoë, one of the voices of academia co-hosts about your decision to leave your PhD with a masters. And I just want to thank you again for coming forward to share your story. I think a lot of what you said in the last episode really resonated with me, and I honestly feel like it'll resonate with a lot of our listeners as well. So thank you.
Henry:
Oh, you're welcome. Say, I hope if it can help even just one person and I'll feel happy.
Emily:
So we learnt a bit about your life before you opened up about your story in the last episode. And similarly, today I have a few questions for you before we get into the next part of our story. Great. So I wanted to know in your downtime, is there anything you're particularly watching or I know you're watching a lot of Netflix at the moment or listening to or reading that you're particularly enjoying?
Henry:
Yeah. So there was a book I recently read, which was interesting to me called Atomic Habits by James Clear. It was a book recommended to me by a friend who essentially said, If you are wanting to pick up a habit or break a habit that you might have. So for me, that's been nail biting for since. For me, when I was like five years old, I just had a bad nail biting habit. And then that's due mostly to nervousness and kind of, I guess, anxiety as well. So I was always going to bite my nails. I tried that kind of stuff that you put on it. It tastes not very nice. It didn't particularly work. So I took to reading this book. And yeah, this book kind of sets out kind of a few key steps to breaking a habit. So you have the habit itself. It's kind of the first thing you then have the trigger, which is the kind of second thing and then obviously the reward. It sounds like I'm talking about when you give your dog a treat, kind of like they kind of react positively to it. But yeah, it's basically like how your psychology works, for example, when you do bite your nails kind of the trigger to say as anxiousness, anxiety, that kind of thing. And then almost the reward obviously isn't actually the biting of the nails, but it's almost the feeling you get of the you're in control of that, and it's that it's that kind of that reward of sounds silly, but satisfaction of doing that.
Henry:
James, in the book, he quotes that generally habits take between three weeks to six months, I believe, to kind of form, and that depends on how kind of frequently you do them and how consistent you are and also having a kind of positive reinforcement of that habit. So associating a habit with something else. So for example, for me, you want to break that trigger moment. So for me, it's kind of putting your fingers close to your mouth and then kind of not stopping yourself kind of subconsciously doing it. And that's what I realize is it's on a subconscious level that you just do it when you're nervous. So I bought a stressful. It's something that he mentions in the book is quite good. Something to preoccupy your hands to kind of just stop you from reaching that point where you're then biting your nails. I did see results of in three weeks and then kind of six months later, I had a pretty, pretty good. I won't show them now because I'm not going to lie. They are not the best. So maybe I need to practice what I preach a bit more. But yeah,
Emily:
It is kind of interesting because I asked about if there's anything you're particularly enjoying, and this is absolutely not a criticism. But based on what we were talking about in the last episode about how it can be difficult to, you know, use free time for enjoyable things rather than to be busy. I have this habit as well of like potentially rating something in my downtime when I should be focusing on fun. It's like reading something to improve myself, reading something to learn something, you know? And I find that really interesting. And yeah, again, it's not a criticism, but I think that's even probably something that a lot of academics can relate to.
Henry:
Yeah, other stuff in my downtime, I guess. Yeah. I mean, baking is such a big thing. I mean, we've got the hashtag chemists who cook, and that's been really, really good to kind of just tweak the food I'm making and stuff. And you know, for me, it's just nice to show and share with people because I say I don't have a massive friend circle. I'd say I've got maybe a few friends and my partner, obviously as well and my family. But, you know, Twitter is almost like a whole other community for me, and I think it's just nice to interact with them. And it's certainly helped me to realize that I'm not alone in all the feelings I talked about last time. Other people have felt those, too. And just to realize that that's OK is kind of a nice. It's a nice thing. And it certainly helped him mellow the feelings I felt and kind of perked me up when I've had a kind of bad day.
Emily:
Yeah. And I think we'll talk a bit about Twitter as a support system in a minute. But the other question I had was what's at the top of your bucket list?
Henry:
It's funny. I was literally talking about this with my girlfriend yesterday. Oh, interesting. Two very different things, actually. One is to go to Australia, funnily enough, always something I want.
Emily:
HAHA! Welcome!
Henry:
Yeah, I guess technically I've done that so I can take it off, like albeit virtually, I guess. Shall we? Shall we say that I'll take it off the list? No, I would like to go. I'd love to go to the Sydney Opera House. I've never seen opera even just experience Australian culture and just what Sydney is like and not just Sydney. I'll go to other places as well, just to it's the thing as well. It's on the other side of the world. It's always kind of got me like perplex. It's like where you can actually go in a day to the other side of the world. It's pretty, pretty cool. So that's one thing I want to do. And the other thing is weird because as a kid, I was awfully scared of heights. But yeah, what I'd like to do is a bungee jump. So like, not bungee jump. Sorry, skydive. So actually, like out of a helicopter, more so just to have that freedom, that feeling of like weightlessness. I think it's just really freeing, I guess, because, you know, we spend all our time just worrying about so much. But actually, when you're there also, I've not done it, but I can imagine when you're up there just falling basically, obviously have a parachute and someone with you, probably it's actually quite freeing because in that moment, all you have is you're there, you have to be present. There's no no way about it, but you have to be there in that moment because if you're not there, obviously stuff could happen. But for me, it's exciting because I think it would be again, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to do that and just kind of see what it's like to see the world from so high up. Obviously, you know, if you're on a plane, you can see it, but it's just not the same as just being a that one with nature, I guess
Emily:
Being out there. Exactly.
Henry:
And like,
Emily:
I'd love to try that as
Henry:
Well. Like, honestly, it scares me. Pardon my French fear, scares me shitless. But like, like, I'm just so excited to do that. I don't know when I'll do that and might don't I get 25 this October, so if I can find one chief, I might try it, but I might leave it for me 30, 30 or 50 in a few years time. So that's also crazy that I'm always quarter of a century old.
Emily:
So mentally well, I'm well beyond that. But I can tell you that opera the Sydney Opera House is phenomenal. They have tickets, discounted tickets for under 30. So I went quite a few times when I lived in Sydney and it's yeah, I really hope you get the opportunity to do that because it is fantastic. Great.
Henry:
I might have to combine the two together and come to Sydney, go to the Opera House when I'm 30 and do a skydive.
Emily:
Yeah, that's like a good idea. So just a social media shout out for Henry, for those that are unable to listen to the end. He's available on Twitter at HPL Davis and also at CeMM Convos Pod, if any of what he says today resonates with you. So today we'll talk a little bit about, I guess, some of how you've learned to manage your visual impairment. Henry, that you mentioned in the last episode and and how that's led you to become an advocate for young people pursuing STEM. And also, I guess how you use your learned knowledge of yourself to make that decision about your future that feels right for you now. So to start off, I guess, you know, I feel like managing this visual impairment and your mental health are probably tied together somewhat. And that kind of came out a little bit with some of what you were talking about from your from your younger years. Yeah, but I'd be interested to know how you've learned to manage the impacts that your visual impairment has had on your life.
Henry:
So I think certainly kind of outside of the academic sphere. So just generally, I think just wearing glasses, pretty much so, you know, I didn't wear glasses as a as a kid, but then well, just before I started university. So in 2015, the doctor said, you know, you probably get to wear glasses in terms of sitting in a lecture theatre and things. And obviously, I've never worn glasses before that point. Not just that, but then, you know, accepting that, you know, I can't drive, for example, so be able to get concessionary bus passes and things like that. So you get like reduced public transport. And I kind of have used public transport for years now, and I'm kind of used to all the different systems. And you know, of course, initially it was difficult. But again, you kind of adapt. And as I said before, like, people don't assume that I actually have a vision impairment because seemingly I coped so well with it. And actually, sometimes it sounds funny, but sometimes I'd even forget that there's something even there, just because you almost it is part of me. But at the same time, I just kind of don't really acknowledge it too often. I kind of just not that I pretend that it is not a thing, but it's easier just to kind of go about life as normal. But then for me, I guess normal is having a visual impairment. But yeah, it's kind of like it just kind of blends into the background almost. And it's not the immediate thing that people say, Oh, you know, you're looking at something funny, people just assume, Oh, you're just someone with a lazy eye or something like that, you know, people never know the back story and kind of everything that came before.
Henry:
And it's mostly because I don't want to, you know, I don't want to tell everybody, I'm not. Not that I'm ashamed. Just that I'm too. I don't want to say pride because I just I think I've just coped well with it to the point where it's not obvious if that makes sense. That's at least kind of from, yeah, from the outside of academia kind of perspective in terms of work more generally, I think definitely the practical side of chemistry was more difficult and I didn't need that practical support. And again, I felt bad that I needed that support. Initially, when I was at uni in the first couple of years, I was like, Oh, having to ask demonstrators for help. And you know, I always felt like I was cheating the system because, you know, people around me weren't having the help and stuff like having extra time in exams. I felt like I was, you know, benefiting more than other people. And actually, it wasn't because it was helping me to succeed and do the best. I could not even succeed, do the best I could with, you know, what I've got in terms of what you know is beholden to me in terms of having a disability and realizing that's OK. It's OK to ask for help when you need it.
Henry:
And if I look back, I think if I'd ask for help sooner, it probably would have impacted me mentally quite well, because I think a lot of the anxiety I had around my visual impairment was because I was afraid to ask for help and actually just realizing either from myself or others saying, You know, we've got all these like support services like the university said. We've got the disability support services. And, you know, unbeknownst to me, they had all of these things like voice recorders and that kind of stuff that I could use in lectures. And I found that it's really useful note taking, for example, in my lectures, that was really helpful. And again, it just made my life that bit easier because it meant I could focus on. Listening to what the lecturer had to say, rather than scribbling down notes that were then going to be illegible anyway because I couldn't necessarily read them again, really, it just comes down to asking for help when you need it and not being afraid to step out your comfort zone a bit. And of course, like practical chemistry was completely outside of my comfort zone because I took longer to do things, you know? For example, if I want to do a distillation, it does take me a long time to set it up. Not because again, I'm not capable of doing it, but because there's lots of little bits you have to put together. And I remember it first year of university, I was almost stabbed in the hand of a barrette.
Henry:
So if you've done a Titration, you'll know that you have to use a glass of your. And I almost, yeah, kind of slipped my hand when I was trying to put the stock cocking. And yeah, it kind of. Yeah, it wasn't the prettiest. Thankfully, I didn't injure myself, but you know, that was that was a worry, and that was kind of scared me a bit. That's why I then asked for the help that I needed. This was when, like a month or so of starting my undergrad degree, and they said, Look, do you want some help? We know you have a visual impairment. Do you want someone there in the lab with you? And I was like, initially, I was like, I'm not sure because I thought that it was like bad and you know, I'd be looked down upon, but actually, like it helped so much and it gave me the confidence to actually be in the lab. And then, yeah, when I got to the PhD, initially, I was having to help. But then I was kind of given the freedom and to be fair, that I find that really difficult because while I want to be independent in the laboratory, I realized very quickly that my eyesight is not getting any better. Yes, I don't have macular degeneration, so it's not similarly getting worse. But it could, you know, and that the anxiety around that worries me to the point where I feel like I need the support in the lab to be a factor into my decision, you know, around all the stuff with the mental health difficulties around choosing switch to the Masters as well, the practical side of chemistry I find difficult.
Henry:
So people will argue that, oh, you know, maybe you just didn't enjoy it. Yeah, maybe I didn't enjoy it. But also, I think some people have to remember that it was difficult. You know, from a practical perspective, you know, I'm not the same as everybody else, and it took me a long time to admit that to to myself more than anything else. You know, it's nothing negative to say, I have a disability. If anything, it's kind of freeing to actually admit it and actually offer help to those that need it. And I mean, that's what I want to try and do is that, you know, it's been difficult for me, but I tried my best and that's all I could do. And, you know, talked about my best being sky high versus what others expect. But, you know, so be it. I think it's important to acknowledge when you need help, and that's why I did. I think it's important that, you know, if anyone else feels that they need help, but they haven't asked for it yet, you know, just just you'll be surprised, I think is the thing I'd say you'd be surprised at who's able to offer you help and how open they are to actually seeing you. You know, do better by having that help. So I think, yeah, that's my one piece of advice for people.
Emily:
So I think one thing that does come to mind when you talk about how the practical difficulties that you face did kind of factor into your decision to leave. I do wonder, I guess, because I think a lot of people face a range of different difficulties within academia and that can factor into whether they stay or leave and. It's definitely a shame because for people that, you know, really want to be there, but the system's just not structured well enough for them. You know, that's obviously it's, you know, it's obviously a shame. You did have access to, you know, some physical supports, but do you feel like and this might be really difficult to answer and it might even be a little bit kind of confronting or painful to answer. But do you feel like if academia was more accepting of the different range of abilities that people have? You know, so if it didn't really matter that it took you more time to set things up, if if academia wasn't a sort of time sensitive in terms of getting data and getting published so that you could get funding and that kind of thing, do you think? Is there any possibility that you might have stayed?
Henry:
I guess the short answer is yes. I guess I want to go into that a bit more. So, you know, people will argue that support was provided. I'm sure if you talk to particular individuals, they'll say that, you know, as I say, the practical support was there. Time was given. But again, those people are not the people that they're not me, they're not the person in the lab day to day dealing with the stresses of having a visual impairment, trying to do practical chemistry and at the same time, do it well, you know, and feel that pressure as well. I think often is that kind of. That disconnect that that ambiguity between what others kind of think you need versus what you think you actually need. And for me, that was where I realized, actually, I think I need more support than perhaps I was being given. And yes, you know, it's difficult to discuss, but I think it does need saying that, you know, it's. Yeah, it's hard because, you know, the system university system, for example, is built to appear to have all the support in place, you know, there is disability service and all that kind of thing. And you know, yes, I know the people that supported me did the best they could, and I don't want to slander them for any reason because, you know, in the time I was in, you know, the group at Glasgow, I did enjoy it to a point. But then, you know, everything coupled together, you know, with the practical work with the mental health difficulties with the pandemic, it all kind of just snowballed.
Henry:
And, you know, it all kind of contributed to that feeling of it's not fulfilling. It's not motivating. I'm not happy doing it. So, you know, what can I do instead? I think it's hard and I think, you know, only time will tell if I look back and say in 10 years, Oh, if I had that practical support, but then I wonder what more is they could do because there was a lot there. But then I just wonder if it's almost like a jigsaw piece and it doesn't fit into the jigsaw is like you think, where you're not a good fit for that system. And that was the point I got to as well. You know, I almost thought there was me. And again, I'm not sure if being so raw with the decision, whether you know what I say is a true reflection of the system itself. But I think, you know, certainly in hindsight, I'll look back and maybe decide, you know, the system is in some way flawed. But I think, yeah, I just it's difficult. I think it just needs to be more open conversations around it and not to say that, Oh, you have a disability, it's fine. It doesn't matter. Like we'll just treat you the same as anyone else, because I think that can be the default. And I know for some people it isn't the default and you know, credit to them for supporting individuals.
Henry:
But you know, for some people, it is the default just to always pretend that disability isn't there. But again, as the person with that disability, you have to mentally struggle with that. And it's not easy, you know, to pretend that you're OK with it as well. You know, I'm. Yeah, it's not easy for me to just put a smile on, you know, pretend I'm happy, you know, we've we've stuffed the way it is. So, you know, that's the point I got to and I was like, Look, you know, I appreciate all the support that I've had, but I just don't feel happy. And again, the argument is that I just didn't enjoy the research. And yeah, that may be the case. I might have got to the end of that six month period, but I've got to appreciate that it is practically difficult for me and coupled with the motivation as well to dwindling, then, you know, got to think, Well, is that the right thing for me to be doing then? And if not, what else can I do? And that's the point I got to, I think and you know, so I think, yeah, there is there is certainly things that need to be rethought with the system. And I think definitely just open, transparent conversations from an early age as well. So something I've recently recently been involved in is the Chemistry Solstice Festival, which is for young students with additional support needs.
Henry:
So disabilities, visual impairments, autism and any of those kind of things. And I was scrawled it recorded on that on video just they asked me a few questions about my background and kind of what I'd say to students with ASD who may want to pursue science. I said, don't feel like you can't do it just because someone pretends maybe a disability is not a thing or you don't feel confident, just go for it, because the worse you can do is try and then realize it's not for you and then do something else, because then you can say, at least you've given it a go. I think for me, that's when I look back on this and say, I gave it a go. You know, I went into a PhD wanting to do it, realized it wasn't, wasn't for me, for various reasons. And, you know, I've still got that time to say that I did it. No one can take that away from me. I think that's the key bit. You know, you've got to just try lots of different things and just see what, see what you enjoy. And yeah, especially for those with disabilities, I think it can be hard to feel confident in yourself, but I think you've got the same right as anyone else to do whatever it is you want to do. It doesn't matter that you have a disability. Yes, it will be perhaps more difficult in areas for you, but you can do it.
Henry:
I think is, you know, it's cliche to say, but you can do it. I think you just have to have that self-belief. And that's the point I got to where I didn't have that self-belief. And no matter how many people said, you can do this, you've got just two more years left. It's like. But that's two more years. That's a long time, especially with the uncertainty of the pandemic as well just now. And, you know, I didn't feel like my research was progressing as well as it could do. And yeah, everything coupled together, I just thought, Well, it's it's the right time, it's the right time to do something else. And I do think if I had the idea that I could earn a masters initially, I probably would have done that. I think all I thought was the PhD was the path you had to take. So, you know, you know, no different. So you kind of naturally just pursue that kind of blinded. Pardon the pun, just kind of down down that road and actually. In the end, it wasn't the right thing for me. And yeah, I mean, it was scary admitting that that wasn't the right thing for me, but actually it was quite liberating because actually I just feel like it's I'm kind of kicking myself because I'm like, Why didn't I know this earlier on? You know, and that's the thing of hindsight is you always think it's like, Oh, why don't I know that sooner?
Emily:
Yeah, I mean, we kind of have to experience things to know what is and isn't right for us to. So, you know, you couldn't have known. No. Yeah. So I did want to talk about, I guess, some of what supported you, I guess when you were feeling quite isolated in your day during the pandemic. And then also, if there's anything that's sort of supporting you now, if if there's anything different, you know that you've kind of come across during this process of sort of making this decision and moving on. So I know you said before recording that you've used Twitter to sort of help support you during the pandemic a bit. What are some examples of how that has sort of helped you? Yeah.
Henry:
So I mean, I wasn't an avid Twitter user. I think before I started the PhD and essentially I came to Glasgow and I kind of wanted to kind of meet lots of different people. And obviously, you know, it was fine up until March of 2020. You kind of go out to the pub or whatnot. And then I kind of realized, Oh, actually, we're at home now and you can't go out as much. So kind of how can I connect with people and kind of learn about other's experiences? So I kind of, you know, found Twitter. And then essentially, I've just, yeah, kind of use it for a variety of reasons, I suppose. So, you know, one would be to kind of share my experience of doing research. So I know kind of hashtag real time cam is like a big thing. It's a big like Twitter community is a big thing, and you can kind of search those and kind of share, share your experiences. I was involved as well in the RC Twitter Twitter conference that they do every year. So every march back in 2020. So I took part and I actually God knows how I did that, but I won the engineering category for the RC Twitter conference and that was really impressive again. That's something where you post the poster on Twitter and you know, people ask questions and comment and retweet whatever it might be.
Henry:
I think it's like the person that gets the most likes or something wins. And that was quite liberating. So it was like, Oh, I never done kind of digital design poster design really before. So that was quite new. And yeah, it was quite nice. I had a GIF in there and I kind of realized, Oh, people actually like GIFs. That's cool. So, yeah, that was really, really impressive. And then they asked me back in this year in this competition in March 2021 to actually be on the general committee. So I was asking them questions of the other kind of poster participants. And that was kind of really enjoyable for me to kind of be on the other side of the fence as it were kind of engaged with the community in that way. Another way is just kind of simply posting pictures. So, you know, quite quickly during lockdown, I think it was April, one of my lab mates donated an old espresso machine that he had. He was like, I see you like coffee if you had posted it on Facebook. I like coffee. And he was like, Oh, do you want this espresso machine? And I was like, Sure, and I got the espresso machine. I was just kind of posting pictures of my coffee and then people start to enjoy it. And I was like, Oh, might like doing it every every day.
Henry:
So I kind of got into the routine of like every day with that hashtag on morning coffee or something inside. So cringy. But like that for me, that was quite nice to kind of at that point, I had maybe fifteen hundred people following me, and it almost felt like a little community. Kind of. I know it's kind of virtual, but you know, even just chatting to people was really fun. I did that and then in our group as well, we had the well. I guess people are going to know who who the group was anyway, so we had the Cronin Lab Food Challenge that was really fun because basically a few of us in the group would post kind of the dinners we made, and that was just nice to kind of interact with people in the research group and then also kind of share it with people kind of globally, I guess, as well. Yeah. And I got into cooking a lot during during lockdown baking as well. And then, yeah, when I left the group, one of the gifts I was given was one of those handheld blenders that you get like the Breville blenders, which are quite quite nice. So I've been using those for smoothies and things the last few days, which has been a lot of fun. But yeah, I mean, other things about Twitter, really, it's just I think it's probably this year when certainly take off a bit more.
Henry:
So obviously, we're still in the midst of the pandemic and in January of this year. So just before I made the decision to make the decision to change for the pizza masters, I met Medina, who's a fellow PhD student in Rochester, in the University of Rochester, in New York, and she basically said that she'd seen my tweets and was really interested in what I was doing and wondered if wondered about starting a podcast. I think I actually suggested it to her and we were just chatting and she was like, Yeah, that sounds great. And then we came up with the name can converse, and it kind of just snowballed from there. I mean, yeah, that's just been something we've done most weeks now for the past six months, seven months. And that's so that was borne completely out with Twitter. And that's just kind of grown from strength to strength. And, you know, that's just amazing because, I mean, it just goes to show the power of social media. But another thing was for me tweeting about this decision, I am denied for so many, so many months. I mean, I took my girlfriend back in when I talked, so I told her at Christmas and I hadn't told my parents then because I wasn't able to get down due to restrictions in England can go from Scotland to England.
Henry:
So that was quite hard. It's my first Christmas away from home ever, so it was difficult anyway. But you know, as I told my girlfriend about wanting to change my mind on the PhD, she was completely supportive. I was just talking about, oh, how cool it would be to start a podcast. And then, you know, she said, just just go for it. And you know, I was saying about the fact that I wanted to write and I had basically written what was essentially a 2000 word blog post on the reasons why I think I had like 10 reasons or something. And she was like, You're not going to tweet that, are you? I was like, Why not? It's just like, it's literally 13 tweets lol. Like, I know they're 280 characters, but like, that's so you could write a book, you know, with your information. And she was like, Let's let's cut it down a bit. And yeah, we kind of summarized it in, you know, free tweets. And I'm really bad. Anyone that knows me will know that if I talk a lot, which I'm sure listeners to, this will kind of realise or I kind of will write or I'll kind of write a lot and I'm well known for if I'm writing a paper or whatever it might be, I can just type and type and type and type and then end up with like 25 pages on whatever it might be.
Henry:
Yeah, she was like, Let's cut it down a bit, actually make it more succinct. And we did that, and then I put that out. So I actually had it in my drafts since January. And I didn't post it until. What is it about the end of May, beginning of June? I can't remember exactly when it was. And the reason I didn't post it because I was scared of what other people would think. Why have I done everything up until this point? Because if I want to please someone else or I want to do what someone else thinks I should do? And that's why I didn't post it, because I was worried that, you know, people would judge me. And rightly, people are going to judge me either way, you know, either positively or negatively or agree or disagree, and they did. But honestly, I wasn't expecting the response I got. I think I said to you pre-recording that it was the most interacted with tweet I'd ever tweeted, you know, get coffee pictures or, you know, pictures of food. Like actually, the one thing that resonates with people most is. Changing your mind on something that isn't making you happy and realizing that and having essentially having the balls to go, go through with it. And for me, that was, yeah, that was quite liberating and that was the moment I was like, Oh, people actually understand what I'm feeling.
Henry:
It's it's OK, you know? Yeah. And it's the cliché phrase of it's OK not to be OK. And you know, that's what some of the people said that actually, you know, it's OK to feel the way you feel and like, just go out and be amazing. A lot of the comments were positive, actually. Know, I think all of them are positive. I didn't have one negative comment from anybody. I think the only slightly negative comment was around, you know, like you said, Emily, that it's a shame that you aren't able to continue. So it wasn't, you know, anything about me more about the system as a whole. And I think that just goes to show that it's never us as individuals is often an external force, a system, whatever it might be that's stopping you from doing whatever it is you might want to do. And that's what I realized is that actually so many people resonate. And actually, I then had direct messages from people. I had no idea I'd never met in my life. I I had to literally close my DMs at one point because I had, like so many messages from people being like, I totally understand how you feel. I've had similar feelings. Can we talk about it like, you're an inspiration or this kind of stuff? And I'm like, Honestly, honestly, it brought me to tears like eyes.
Henry:
I'm not crying now because I'm, you know, on audio, whatever, and I particularly want to, you know, well, up. But yeah, I mean, it was quite difficult to read because it was also nice, and I even had messages from people talking about my visual impairment. I had a couple of messages from people that were visually impaired or blind and were doing chemistry, and I was like Ph.D. students as well as like, Wow, OK, you know, you may think you're the only person because you never hear anything else about it. You know, to hear that from other people is like, Wow, that's that's amazing. And yeah, I guess that's why, you know, I felt like when I had the offer from the Chemistry Solstice Festival to go and do that for the young people, I was like, Well, why not? You know, clearly people are interested in actually, you know, resonate with all of this. So, you know, why not advocate for it and actually make a try and make a difference? I know disabled in STEM is a big thing as well on Twitter. So, you know, I'd look to hopefully going forward be a part of that to say, you know, just because I've left chemistry doesn't mean I'm not going to advocate for all of this kind of change and, you know, to improve the system because I mean, someone needs to, you know, if no one does, then you know, nothing's going to change and it should for the better, I think.
Henry:
And you know, for me, that's what it demonstrated was that tweet that actually, it doesn't have to be a book on why you made a decision. Just be honest and just say why. And you know, that's that's all people want is just to understand. And you know, I think that's the point is that people understood and family as well. Of course, you know, initially people were disappointed because it was a shame, you know, that I wasn't able to continue. But actually, people understood that for the sake of my mental health, for the sake of my own well-being, that it's the right thing to do and no title would change that. Just because I have doctor in front of my name doesn't magically mean I'm going to be, you know, less depressed, I guess, you know, I said earlier that I don't think I was, but, you know, talking about it more, you know, maybe I was. I've not only recently, I've started therapy. Vrc have great service that they've kind of introduced listening to wellbeing service, and I've been one of the first kind of using it and, you know, to have. Yeah, to have someone to talk to on a kind of two weekly basis and just discuss any any issues I might have just kind of is quite liberating and it's kind of helped me to just realize that.
Henry:
Yeah, life's too short to be unhappy and just you have to do anything you can to be happier. So I think you have anyone else listening kind of resonates if any of this. Feel free to reach out or either to me or someone else that you know you are able to talk to about these things because, you know, I think it's that feeling of being alone and you're really not. I think it's just far too easy to feel alone. And I think it's certainly something the pandemic has brought on is that isolation feeling of loneliness. And I think you just got to speak out if you're unhappy and just, yeah, even if it is a tweet, you know, because you'd be honestly, you'd be surprised at the reception you can get. So yeah, I guess. Thanks to Twitter, I guess, you know, because I don't know what I would have done without the community. I certainly think, you know, having my partner from August onwards has been a real help. Just also disconnect from social media as well and discuss it kind of more personally. But I think definitely Twitter has its space in my life and I think, you know, a. Yeah. Kind of never want to stop using it. I think it's it's it's a brilliant kind of platform.
Emily:
And I guess, yeah, in the same way that you discovered other people that are visually impaired, that we're doing PhDs and that made you feel, you know, like you're not the only one you speaking out on this platform. And if you do any other advocacy work in the future and obviously on your own podcast is going to help other people that are listening and thought that they were the only ones as well. So I think it's really great that you're advocating and I totally agree. You know, leaving leaving academia doesn't mean that, you know, you might potentially come back at some point in the future if you choose to do that, and that feels right for you. But it also doesn't mean that you're not a scientist and you're not a chemist. And I think that's a really important point to make as well. But yeah, I am a little bit mindful of time as well. So I guess, you know, it sounds like you had a lot of different supports from a lot of different places. You had some of the physical supports for you. You've had Twitter as a bit of a community support. You've had a new relationship as a support for you. You just mentioned that you've just recently started therapy. And then in the last episode, you also mentioned that you've started journaling and, you know, using gratitude. And I think mindfulness through the Headspace app as well.
Henry:
I used Headspace a lot. And, you know, for the past 18 months, it's been great. I do it every morning for 10 minutes, so I'll do my exercise normally for an hour, half hour and then 10 minutes of meditation. And that's really helped to say remain present and not focus so much on either the past or the future. And I think I'd really encourage anyone that's kind of stuck in their own head and kind of have that brain fog. If you want to kind of try something, just try even just five minutes of meditation guided meditation, I think it could really help. And it certainly helped me, you know, just to have clarity of thought, combined with the gratitude, journals really helped to kind of know what I want out of life, I think.
Emily:
So were they things that were kind of encouraged by other people that you start or how did you sort of get into meditation and the Gratitude Journal?
Henry:
So the gratitude journal was a gift, actually. So my mum, I think it's a Christmas. A couple of years ago, she gave me this book and it's like, I think it's called the five minutes every day or every morning, five minutes every morning book. Essentially, it's like a gratitude journal with like other little bits of like five things you're grateful for. You know, one thing that made you happy today, those kind of things, and just kind of doing that once every day kind of really helped me to kind of zero in on what? You know what brings me happiness in life and in terms of meditation, I mean, yeah, I never really was encouraged to do that. I kind of just fell upon it and just kind of, yeah, I mean, I watch different people on YouTube kind of self-improvement videos and that kind of stuff, and a lot of them mentioned meditation. I was like, you know, I'd never tried it, but why not? And I got a What was it for my birthday? I think last year I got a little Google speaker thing and like Google Home speaker and on there you can like, say, you know, start a meditation and I do that now every morning. And, you know, it's just a nice way to start the day. And I think it was difficult initially because I think I don't know if anyone listening has tried it. You'll know that closing your eyes for ten minutes and just sitting as I don't know, I always fidget it as a kid. I was never I can never be still for too long.
Henry:
So, yeah, I did find that very hard in the first few months and only now that I'm able to sit there and just be. And that's kind of come with as well not thinking so much about what might be just kind of being present in the present moment. And certainly since submitting the thesis and not being so focused on all that kind of stuff, I'm far more present now than I ever was. And I think that just goes to show that actually this was the right choice because actually, now I can focus more on me and what I what I want to do. And it sounds silly, but I'm looking forward to just having a normal job. You know, I've never I've been in the education system for, you know, since I was 11 years old. Well, I mean, technically in primary school, but let's say 11 years old secondary school. So now I'm 13 years at this point, fourteen years and now I'm just looking forward to having, you know, weekends free and just evenings not have to worry about things. And, you know, that's quite exciting, you know? Yes, it's scary because I'm there certainly freedoms that come with being a student, but also, you know, it's exciting to actually become a, I don't know, say, real adult. I know that, you know, people do PhDs in their 40s and 50s, but you know what I mean? Just kind of like having a being a bit more certain of where my life's headed kind of thing, which I didn't have before.
Emily:
I don't think so, I guess. Were there any other supports that we sort of haven't mentioned that you would like to share?
Henry:
Yeah, I mean, I definitely think particular people in the group. So I mean, in the research group that I was in, in La Cronin's group, so fellow PhD students that I kind of talked to whilst deciding to change, I taught them in confidence. And, you know, they were fully supportive, which which was great. And I mean, just, of course, my parents as well. I didn't talk to them initially about it because again, I didn't know if I was just being silly. And, you know, I knew that there was other things going on at home. So I thought my problems were quite quite small in comparison. But you know, for me, they've been great because, you know, for at the time when I was in Canada or, you know, when I was hearing Glasgow, obviously I'm not at home. So being able to face time them and just chat to them, you know, weekly, it's been really good. And yeah, I just, yeah, I just want to thank them, I guess, for being so supportive of me and whatever I want to do. And now, you know, moving into a job, I kind of couldn't have done it without them. They've always encouraged me to pursue what I want to and ultimately now just to do what makes me happy.
Emily:
So I guess one thing that you've mentioned multiple times in in both of our episodes is that you are quite concerned about what other people think of you and what they think of your decisions. And again, I can absolutely relate to that, and I know it's a huge journey to start to overcome that. And I was just wondering sort of where you're at with that, you know, obviously you needed to manage that when you were making this decision because it would have felt like so many people were going to potentially judge you, you know, based on what you decided to do. How did you start to overcome that fear, I guess. And where are you at with it now?
Henry:
I definitely think in terms of dealing with it, I probably didn't deal with it in the best way. As I say, I was very much second guessing my decision for the longest time. I think, you know, when I chose to leave and then I was writing from, you know, February to June, I was just very much thinking every day until I do the right thing, you know, are people going to be disappointed? You know what? What if I regret it? And it's only recently again, when I've talked to people, talked to my partner, talk to my parents and had all this support from from elsewhere that I've realized that. It doesn't matter what people think, because at the end of the day, you're the only person that's going to regret or not regret what you do, so you've just got to do what feels right and almost. Almost be selfish. It sounds kind of bad because, you know, I'm quite I've always been quite a modest person, always kind of doing things for other people. I've never particularly been a selfish individual. So I think now I got to the point where I was like, Well, I need to be happy myself, so I need to make this decision and just do it.
Henry:
And kind of, yes, it's a risk, but it's a risk I'm willing to take to be happier. And that's kind of where I got to. You know, I wouldn't say I've necessarily overcome it yet. It's certainly a work in progress. But just being able to talk about kind of these feelings as well has really helped. And that's where therapy is certainly helping. And I say just talking to my partner and there's no judgment there at all. So my parents know now they've kind of understood the reasons as to why I decided to change. They kind of appreciate that, you know, it's because I want to be happier and to support my own well-being and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, I think it's everyone will support you either way, you know, whatever it is you do, but it's it's you having that self-belief that actually what you've done is the right thing for you. And that's kind of where where I'm at now is that, yeah, I've not overcome it, but you know, I'm more willing to do what I want to forsaking everyone else, but certainly something I still need to deal with. And I think I mentioned it in a previous episode was that thing of being able to say no to people.
Henry:
And it's still something I'm struggling with at the moment is that, you know, I take on too much. And I think now having a job where I can switch off at the weekend and just having that time to unwind will be so good because I won't I won't be able to take on so much now because I'll have things to do on the weekends and like not work related kind of things. And you know, now I have a relationship, I have to think about that as well. And, you know, I have to consciously make the choice to not think about work where before I was just all consumed in work and you know, I was doing it because I thought, that's what people wanted me to do. And I've realized, no, all people want you to do is be happy. No one cares if you've got a title or not, because if you have a title, but you're miserable, what good is that? Whereas if you choose to do something else and you're far happier, then people are going to well, are going to kind of feel much more glad for you than they would be to see you be miserable.
Emily:
And I think that's probably a really good place to wrap up this episode. Is there anything you'd like to add before we finish Henry?
Henry:
I don't think so. I think just if anybody you know, has resonated with anything that I've said in every episode, just don't be afraid to reach out. But also, if you have someone that's supporting you, be it a partner, a parent, whatever it might be. Just talk to them. I think that's the piece of advice I would have given myself. This time a year ago is just speak out because all they can do is try and help you and honestly, I think you'll feel a lot better. So yeah, I think hindsight's a wonderful thing and just, yeah. Try not to worry what people think, because ultimately you're your own worst critic, but you've just got to make yourself happy. So I think that's that's it kind of my philosophical end, I guess, to the to the episode.
Emily:
Love it. And a final reminder if listeners would like to get in touch with Henry. He's available on Twitter at £H Davis and at CeMM Converse Pod, and I'll put a link in the episode description for that. So I do just want to thank you again for sharing Henry. By the time this is, you will have defended your thesis and be well on the way with your new role as a graduate data analyst. So I wish you the best of luck.
Henry:
Thanks, Emily. Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it, and I say I hope the listeners have enjoyed both episodes.
Emily:
And yeah, definitely look me up if you end up coming to Australia at some point in the future.
Henry:
I definitely will. I'll ask for you to be my tour guide. That's OK.
Emily:
Sounds good. So that brings us close to the end of today's episode of Voices of Academia to you listening. Thanks for choosing to share some of your time with us. I'd love to know your takeaway from Henry's story. Let me know on Twitter @Eking_Sci for science. Otherwise, I look forward to having you with me again in a couple of weeks. Bye for now.
Emily:
Before you go, we have some support resources and information for how you can share your own story. If this episode brought anything up for you, there are mental health resources and emergency numbers available for various countries at www.checkpointorg.com/global. For information found in this episode, refer to the episode description or visit the podcast section of our website www.VoicesofAcademia.com. There you can also access the full transcript of this episode made available by our Lovely Voices of Academia team member Daniel Ranson. This podcast was written, hosted and produced by me, Emily, with support from some very special people in my life. You can find me on Twitter @EKing_Scifor science, but I'm part of the larger voices of Academia team. We have a website, a Twitter account @AcademicVoices and also share stories in blog form, with the option of them being anonymous. If you like this podcast and want to hear more stories, please leave a review and subscribe! Tell me what you think on Twitter and tell your friends. The podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and most other major listening platforms. You can also follow the Voices of Academia blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Just head to our website www.VoicesofAcademia.com to sign up. If you have a mental health or wellness story to share, we absolutely want to hear from you. Whether you're a team leader, research assistant, postdoc, student, ex academic or any other type of researcher, Follow @AcademicVoices on Twitter. Visit the link in the episode description or visit our website www.VoicesofAcademia.com for details on how to share your story. It's time someone gave you a voice.
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