Ep11_Depression as a Warning Sign_Tonja Wright.mp3
Ep11_Depression as a Warning Sign_Tonja Wright.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Ep11_Depression as a Warning Sign_Tonja Wright.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Emily:
Hey there! A quick warning before we start today's episode touches on depression, as you would have seen in the title. Please be mindful if you continue to listen and reach out for support if you need it. Today's guest, Tonja Wright, opens up about how her PhD supervisors supported her when she was depressed. Her discovery of the benefits of complementary medicine and the inspiration for her productivity and wellbeing business.
Tonja:
I did come to see it as, if not a positive, at least like, I started to see it as, like I said, that that more warning sign, because I think I spent so much time in my head and my whole life was in my head and I wasn't very connected to my body. And I think, you know, your body, if your body trying to get your attention, it can't be very fine-grained. It's going to be very obvious. So, you know, if you get a cold, you might think, oh, I'm a little run down. I probably need to, you know, have some more free vitamin C. I probably need to rest up a bit or. Yeah. Not go so hard. But if you just keep on ignoring that, I guess it just escalates to the point where it's like, OK, well now I literally can't get out of bed, so something's wrong. I need to reassess how I'm doing things because it's not working for me anymore.
Emily:
Tonja is an environmental scientist who opened up previously in Episode 10 about the difficult decision to leave her state when she was experiencing treatment resistant depression. I highly recommend going back to have a listen to the first part of her story before jumping in here. Welcome to Voices of Academia with Emily King, it's a podcast where researchers from around the world open up about their mental health. They might laugh, cry or say things you disagree with, but this is lived experience, not professional advice. We cover some sensitive material, but it's worth it to normalize difficult conversations, reduce stigma and help people feel less alone. Let's get into it.
Emily:
As I mentioned in the last episode, we met at Trivia and then I kind of semi stalked you through our mutual friend so that I could get your details so I could invite you on the podcast, because I found your story really inspiring. And now we're sort of sitting here on a rainy Thursday afternoon for me. You've been there with your blankets and your beanie. And I've got my blanket and my towels blocking the door so that my dog doesn't one into our sound recording. So I really appreciate you talking us through some of your experiences in the last episode. So we touched on depression that you experienced during the day, and he indicated that it's yeah, it's, it's kind of led you in a roundabout way to to start your own business. And we'll talk a little bit more about how you sort of got to that point today. But we also identified that you had some really supportive supervisors during your day. And I'd love to talk some more about that and some of the other treatment approaches that you sort of found through your recovery process. But before we get into that, I know in the last episode we sort of learned a little bit about your your general life before you sort of opened up about some of your story. So similarly today, I've got a few questions before we sort of get into it. So I was going to ask you in your downtime, is there anything particular at the moment that you're listening to or I know you're an avid reader, you're reading or you're sort of watching that you're really enjoying?
Tonja:
Yeah. So a lot of my reading at the moment is business related. So it's a lot of nonfiction, which usually that is my view of what I read. But I am obviously like most people, I've pretty much completed Netflix at this point. And I can clearly mostly I consume podcasts and audio at the moment. And really that's just a lot of fun stuff. I haven't really been listening or watching anything too serious because I think for me at the moment it really is just for downtime and relaxation. So one of my all time favorite podcasts is how did this get made? Which is Jason Mantzoukas, Paul Scheer, and June Diane Raphael being funny and amazing friends and dissecting really good slash bad movies. So that's really one of my all time faves.
Emily:
There you go, and I might put a description or a link to that in the episode description as well. And anyone that runs that podcast is listening to this.
Tonja:
And in fact, June Diane Raphael has just started a new podcast with Jessica Sinclair, who's a very regular contributor to how this get made. And that is amazing as well. Go deep dive. And it's just like that, really best friends and they're just chatting about everything. My only complaint about that is that it's weekly and not a daily podcast.
Emily:
Oh, wow.
Tonja:
I would love to do theater, tune and in on my friend chat each day, but yeah,
Emily:
I feel inferior! We're fortnightly. So listeners, you can listen to those ones when you finish this one and then until the next one of these one comes out.
Tonja:
For a nice break for something fun in between. Yeah.
Emily:
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. What about who you are closest to and why.
Tonja:
I think my friends mostly I think I'm closest to them because I think it's the family you chose, I guess. And I think, you know, I'm quite different to most of my family members. And it wasn't until I really got to university that I started to meet people who had the same interests as me, read the same books as me, love the same music. And really, yeah, I think my strongest bonds with my really close friends.
Emily:
Yeah. I can definitely relate to that final one. What's at the top of your bucket list
Tonja:
At the moment? My bucket list is mostly business related, so things around like having successful products out there and milestones in my business and also just getting back to living in Europe. I would really love to be living in the UK again once things have settled down a little and just travel mostly all of my goals around that travel related. And that's pretty much how I spent my 20s and 30s and pretty much all my money is just goes to travel.
Emily:
I love that. Love me too. So we just do a quick sort of social media shout out to anyone that's on. Listen to the end, if you have found Tony's story relatable and if you'd like to get in contact with her, she's available on LinkedIn and also on Instagram. So we'll put a link to those in the episode description. It's Tonja spelt, Tonja Wright. So supportive supervisors. So this is one definitely an area that is very important for students when they're sort of choosing their degree. Personally, I have received so much advice, like about making sure that you choose really good supervisors. And the research actually shows as well that one of the two reasons why PhD students withdraw from that program is supervisory conflict. So it's a crucial area. And I know this podcast is often about some of the difficult experiences in academia, but there is a lot of beauty there as well. And this is one of those areas, I guess, people that are really invested in the success of their students and staff, and they definitely do exist. So what was it about your supervisors that you kind of found particularly supportive when when you needed that support?
Tonja:
Yeah, I actually I do want to reiterate that I think it is all about the supervisors. And I was considering, OK, I had some meet ups with maybe three or four different groups when I was deciding what I wanted my supervisor team and topic to be. And I made a lot of pros and cons list the little table for all of them with all the different aspects trying to decide. But really it came down to, yeah, just the connection we had and just immediate connection. And they're both European. So I think that's quite a different a difference in the way they relate to you. I think in Europe it's a lot more of a social and colleague level interaction. And I've heard sometimes in Australia and definitely in the U.S. from people I know who we went over there, it's very much student teacher relationship, whereas my supervisors, you know, we spend a lot of social time together. We had Friday night drinks. We go to the footy together. And I would say being an environmental field scientist, you out in the field with each other for days on end, just you and then say 14 plus hours in the day doing hard physical stuff and then maybe either camping or, you know, getting a dodgy motel somewhere in the middle of nowhere. So you're spending a lot of time with these people and you're really connecting with them on a human level rather than that kind of. Yeah. Student teacher relationship. So straight away, they were just lovely guys and just straight into, like, you know, making jokes and paying each other out, just doing whatever. They had a really lovely feeling to them and they were a great team as well.
Emily:
Yeah, that's excellent that you had that kind of support. And I guess once you got to this period where you sort of needed to take intermission from your day and you sort of needed some some extra support from them, how did they approach that?
Tonja:
The biggest thing for me was how understanding they were. Like I said, they walked into my offices and basically just started crying and was like finding it so difficult to even just ask for help. But they are so understanding and really didn't treat it like it was a big deal, which I think was really helpful. They just said, look, this is really understandable. It's a common thing that happens. They were really wanting to, like, get me the help I needed and help in any way they could. And then they were always making sure that I had enough work to pay my rent and put food on the table and things like that. So they would always be finding work for me to do work that I could still do. And, yeah, just really make sure that I was able to keep sustaining myself. So I think it's so important to find, obviously, people who are lovely and understanding and really, really caring about you, because, like I said, you spend a lot of time with these people. So I think it's so important to make sure they're the right fit for you.
Emily:
Yeah. Wow. So do you know if they had supervised many students before you like, do you think they were so good at providing that support because they had sort of been through it before or just in your opinion?
Tonja:
Yeah, so they had both been surprising and surprising as a team from. He is, and I think both say they were informed a lot about the experiences they had had and yeah, I just know that they have a really supervising for them. It's like a high priority. And at the time, they were both purely research scientists, so they didn't do any teaching. So it really was their main focus.
Emily:
And then the other thing that I find very honorable from them is that they were actually helping you find work. So was that when you were on your six months of leave or when did that happen?
Tonja:
I had this six months. I believe it's a six month paid leave with your scholarship that you get. So I had completely that off. But then when I was coming back, I went to part time, so I needed some other income source. Like I said, I'd been teaching and I'd been doing some lab work here and there anyway just to supplement the scholarship like a lot of people do. So I think it was just about making sure I mean, there's always I don't know. I think it changes from discipline to discipline, but there is always some lab work of field work on the go in my discipline. So it was really just yeah, I ended up doing some lab and field work for other students. So I was working as a tech basically for a while. But yeah, that were just really, really helpful in making sure I always had enough so that I could support myself.
Emily:
Yeah. So again, it's, it's really that human side, like sort of saying you as a as a full person and obviously you do need, you know, to to pay your rent and feed yourself. And they were helping to support you to do that. It's Yeah.
Tonja:
Yeah. And I know I mean, I absolutely love the guys and I know that's not everyone's experience. And I am so grateful to them for looking out looking out for me in that way. Yeah. I'll always be very grateful to them.
Emily:
So in terms of your treatment, so you sort of indicated to me, again, sort of before recording that you sort of had to open your mind a little bit to some alternatives to pharmaceuticals. Once that avenue had been exhausted and you tried some complementary medicine, you tried some meditation, you tried some lifestyle changes, and you mentioned in the last episode that you tried schema therapy. And you'd never heard of that previously and and I've never heard of that either, so I was just wondering for me and also for our listeners, could you explain what that experience was like for you?
Tonja:
Yeah, so I did try a few different types of therapy, and just like with supervises, it really is the most important thing is your relationship with your therapist, not necessarily the mentality that they use. And that's what's blown out in the research. So schema therapy is actually it's like a bit of everything. So it's not just that CBT like Band-Aid, like how to get up in the morning, how to make sure you're doing all the things. It's also is that but with some psychoanalysis as well. So it really is going back, I guess, to your childhood and working out your patterns of behavior and which I kind of go Schamus and G-, you find out that, yeah, everything's related. Back to that. And you. They help you uncover your different tactics for things and patterns that you do when the avoidance was a big one for me and you have like a lovable child or undisciplined child, which would come up for that one, and you basically say, yeah, you see things that happen in your life as just recurring patterns. And it's not up to you to uncover that pattern and then process it that you can move on from that. Mm hmm. So it's a really good mix.
Emily:
Yeah, it's interesting because I've done psychotherapy, which is more of sort of the latter. I've had less of the. Band-Aid kind of coping mechanisms, which which I definitely think are important as well, but I've sort of had some people say to me that that's the only thing that I should be doing. Like, how do you cope with this? Like, how are you going to move forward? And and I think
Tonja:
Everyone like, yeah, I think you do need to actually be able to get up in the morning. So you do need something to help you through the day. But you also need to start addressing the underlying issues or else it's going to come back and it's not going to leave. And I think that's where Schamus therapy is really useful because it does give you a bit more of a framework in which to view psychotherapy and psychoanalysis. So that's helpful for me. The way my brain works, you know, that there's like worksheets and different things that you can go through. And it really helps to have this new language to use to discuss what's going on. And and the really helpful framework of this game is in the patterns and things like that. So, yeah, I would definitely recommend it. And you can go online and find qualified chemotherapists in Australia and internationally.
Emily:
Ok, so one question, and you don't have to answer this, but we talk about therapy quite a bit in this podcast, and I understand that there are financial barriers to that for a lot of people. And and we're both very lucky to to sort of have been able to undertake that approach. But can I ask you. So it was that sort of during your stay, how were you able to afford that? Did you have barriers to that approach as well?
Tonja:
Yeah, definitely, look, it is very expensive to be set, and that's what I came up against as well. In Australia, they can go to a GP and you can get a certain number of free sessions, discounted sessions. So it's really important that you do go to that avenue because they'll create a mental health plan for you. And it's actually a surprising number of things that you can get either for free or discounted that you wouldn't even realise. So it's really important to make that your first call. But yeah, basically it was really difficult. But I had to choose to prioritize my spending on health. You know, sometimes when I was spending a thousand a month or more on just health care, and that is a huge amount of money, especially when you're not earning that much. So it's really important. I think there's a lot of low income support help that you can get from the Australian government anyway. I'm not sure. I'm sure in Europe they would also do something like that, but. It was a big I don't want to say that, but yeah, it was really difficult, but I think it's about deciding, well, I really need to get better and to come to terms with this. I don't want to be reduced capacity for any longer than I need to be. So instead of having fun, go out money. I was spending it on like therapy and medication.
Emily:
Yeah, and we we did have some links in a previous episode with Jess to the mental health care plan and also to the low income health care car that's supplied by the Australian government. So I'll put some links for those resources in today's episode description as well. I guess if you are an international listener, not in Australia, perhaps say if your local organizations will be able to provide anything for low income students or if your GP has knowledge of any programs that might be able to help support you because you might be able to get some free sessions or some discounted sessions. So it's definitely something worth looking into because. Yeah, it is. It is so expensive.
Tonja:
But it's also a whole lot of things you can do for free at home by yourself and for yourself, which are a lot of the, you know, meditation as diet. So I cut out caffeine and sugar and I rarely drink alcohol anymore. This exercise is a huge one. And that's, you know, it's free to go walk around the block. So there are a lot of things that you can do that for free, cost very little money.
Emily:
Can I actually ask what what made you decide to make some of those lifestyle changes? So obviously exercise is one that gets recommended all the time and it is beneficial for a huge number of different reasons. Alcohol. I can I can understand because I know that that can cause sort of heightened levels of anxiety. But was that sort of recommended to you to cut out some of those things or did you come across that sort of doing your own research?
Tonja:
Yeah, a bit of both. Definitely. With alcohol, when you're on medication, you're not meant to have any alcohol. And your anti-depressants are a lot of medications, intensive sugar and caffeine. Yeah, I had been I did some reading, and it's that they do affect your mood through your blood sugar levels. So, you know, I was finding that you would have that amazing upswing in energy and mood when you when you have the caffeine or sugar, but then you have a crash later on. And that can be fine when you're you know, you're healthy in other ways. But a crash in mood like that for someone who's already depressed can be quite devastating and dangerous. So to me, it was just about finding anything that would keep me. I guess. As balanced as possible, or I knew I was already in a depressed state, but I didn't want to be moving that needle of my mood up and down so much.
Emily:
So, yeah, it's a really interesting point. Yeah, I sort of hadn't really thought about it that much. I think a lot about my energy levels and what regulates them, but I hadn't thought as much about some of those specific things. So you indicated that, you know, you sort of come to see experiences of depression for you as a bit of a warning sign. And I thought that was a really interesting kind of perspective. You said it kind of is a signal to you that you might not be on the right path or sort of being authentic to yourself or feeling fulfilled or looking after yourself. And I'd be really interested to know, you know, that's a huge realization. And I'd be interested if you could talk us through sort of how you came to that
Tonja:
Say that definitely came to me later and not when I was in the throes of it. Obviously, it's a lot harder, but it definitely was what came about when I started to do more meditation and more complementary therapies. You know, I started off with traditional talking therapy and pharmaceuticals, but I was experiencing treatment resistant depression. And actually a lot of the antidepressants, the efficacy rate is around 30 percent. So it's really only works with 30 percent of people and still the other 70 percent. And that scene is good enough to be giving people. So I exhausted that and I wasn't really sure what to do. And I think coming from, you know, a very hard sciences, it was quite difficult for me to look around and transition to some complementary medicine and those fields. But I I kind of did it out of desperation because I tried absolutely everything I could try and I still wasn't getting any better. So I did start to I saw a naturopath. I started to see a kinesiologist. I was doing some more. I guess more complimentary like talking therapies that incorporated meditation and body work, things like that, which it was look, it was a really hard slog trying to turn off that critical part of my brain and not roll my eyes every two seconds. And that did take me a couple of years to get to the point where I was like, well, if it works, it works.
Tonja:
So why am I putting a stigma on something or feeling like it's an area when actually this is the only thing that's actually helping me feel better. So that was a really a really long journey to get to. But basically through a lot of that, in a reflection and processing, I did come to see it as if not a positive, at least like I I started to see it as like I said that that more warning sign, because I think I spent so much time in my head and my whole life was in my head and I wasn't very connected to my body and I think. You know, your body, if your body is trying to get your attention, it can't be very fine-grained, it's going to be very obvious. So if you get a cold, you might think, oh, I'm a little run down. I probably need to, you know, have some more fruit. Vitamin C, I probably need to rest up a bit or. Yeah. Not go so hard. But if you just keep on ignoring that, I guess it just escalates into the point where it's like, OK, well now I literally can't get out of bed, so something's wrong. I need to reassess how I'm doing things because it's not working for me anymore.
Emily:
Yeah, that's so interesting. I imagine a lot of the audience can kind of relate to living in our heads as academics. You kind of almost need to. And you're building this career based on your ability to sort of think and problem-solving. And also, I think the audience would be able to relate to. You know, we I'll freely admit my ego is pretty big when I started my day and I've been humbled now, but, you know, I think to to stick in or stick with academia, you do need a bit of an ego. And that can, I guess, make us critical of, you know, some other maybe less well approaches that were a little bit less familiar with. So naturopaths and kinesiology is something that actually hasn't come up on the podcast before. So I'd be interested if you could kind of explain. Yeah, I guess. Well, what a naturopath does and what a kinesiologist does and for you, the benefit that you felt you received from those services.
Tonja:
Yes, sir, a naturopath, I guess, uses supplements and sometimes things. In the same way as, I guess, a psychiatrist with or a doctor, my naturopath is amazing. He's had medical training as well, and he understands how important scientific evidence is to me. So he'll only give me things that have been researched. And he was showing me the papers so I can read through them and make a decision as well. So there's a lot of things out there that have had research done on them, and they have even been proved to be more successful at treating things like depression than the current pharmaceuticals on the market. But for whatever reason, whether it is someone you know, it's not very profitable for other market drug market drivers. They're just not widespread or in common usage in Western medicine. So basically, it's a lot of I take a lot of supplements so that amino acids, different vitamins, things like that are other things that are. I think a big part of it, especially for me, is you hear of. Homoeopathy and you kind of put. That idea on any kind of complementary medicine, and that's yeah, that's not the case, so. Like I said, I had a lot of resistance going to these people, but it was literally out of desperation of I had tried absolutely everything and nothing had worked, but basically. It is just readdressing in balance because with depression, there is you know, there's a mental component and a physical component and sometimes your body is just out of out of balance and doesn't have enough of.
Tonja:
The right chemicals, so. Yeah, it's just about addressing those in a bit more of a natural way and the problem like the downside with that is that it can take a bit longer lead times. So you might think pharmaceutical, antidepressant, and you'll see a result in a couple of weeks. But with some of these more natural therapies, you might have to wait a month or so and sometimes you just can't do that. So, yeah, I think there's definitely a place for everything, whereas kinesiology is a bit further down that path. I see it as an extension of talking therapy, but it's using the body as your inroad to that. It took me a while to get to a point where I could even visit someone like this, but. Yeah, I think what they do is they they touch your body. The idea is that I guess trauma is stored in the body, which I think that's been, you know, a lot of research pointing to that. And I think that is widely accepted. It's just how you process of that and how you release it. So this is using visualization, I guess, a meditation, just bringing awareness and talking through some traumatic moments in your life to release that from your body.
Emily:
Yeah, no fantastic explanations, and I learned quite a lot just that, and I think what you said about a naturopath really kind of reinforces what you talked about earlier in that the relationships are so important. So, you know, like it's important with your supervisors. It's important if you choose to go to therapy, it's important with you naturopath, because you as a person are only going to respond to certain types of treatment. And you, with the science mind that you have, needs a certain level of evidence. And just because these are complementary medicines that, as you said, they maybe don't have the same kind of market drive as saw the kind of treatments, it doesn't mean that the evidence base isn't there and it doesn't mean that we should label them as being less evidence based.
Tonja:
Yeah, it just takes a little more to dig it out. And maybe it's not maybe there's not as many studies just because it's not being looked into as much. But there's definitely evidence out there. And definitely in my personal case, that's what helped me.
Emily:
And so the final part, I guess, is is really kind of coming to where you're at now, launching your business. So you have used this lived experience to become an advocate for work life balance and wellbeing in the workplace. And something that I really admire about you is that you've kind of used it to build a business that's actually going to help other people and it's going to help them optimize their productivity and their wellbeing in the office and also working from home. I guess I have two questions. What made you want to advocate for others?
Tonja:
Yeah, I think it's definitely coming from having having had this experience myself. I didn't realize that I was so interested in it until I was living over in the UK working for a not for profit. And they asked me to redesign the office just as a little task to do. And I think I thought it was going to take a week or two, but I ended up like like it's a very scientific about it and like deep dive into the literature, especially environmental psychology, and was saying how design, good design can really have a mental and physical effect on people and can really help increase productivity and wellbeing. And so I just found an absolute passion for and I knew when I came back from the UK, I wanted to retrain as an interior designer, which is what I did so that I could specialize in this. So that's kind of where the cerebral part of it came from. But then the kind of heart of it is, is that lived experience of. Of having that diminished capacity and really realized the same tools around how you can make, you know, one hour account for a time, and you can really to me, you know, all the things that you need to have a healthy, balanced life and giving yourself enough time for exercise, meditation or creative time is hugely important for me, for my well-being.
Tonja:
And maybe you can't fit that old in in this 40 hour plus work week. So I've definitely started to get really interested in rather than, you know, that kind of one hour in, one hour out looking at different ways to structure your work week and doing more deliverables based work styles so that it really would you have enough time to take care of your mind and your body and I guess give yourself that, whatever it is, whether it's spending time with family or it's like me doing some pottery or dressmaking or something like that, that really does help fill up again and help you recharge. And in terms of other people, especially working moms, they just don't have the time and so much to do even when they kids are at school. And Kathy. Thank you so much, housework and mind is always on something else, and it's really hard to focus and maybe they only get four or five hours in a day to work on that job. So to me, it's about making making any time that you have to count and being as productive and getting as much out of it as you can.
Emily:
Actually, definitely want to work for a workplace. It's hard you want as a consultant because it's amazing. I think academia needs you.
Tonja:
Well, I think it was great where I was at because it really had that that kind of startup mindset. And it we did we had a nap room and it got used all the time because it's so much better for your house and your productivity to take a 20 minute nap than it is to have a coffee or some sugar weather, even if that is a piece of fruit and not so far with refined sugar. So, yeah, it really does help if you have a workplace culture that is happy to embrace some things that might seem a little strange from the outside and unconventional, but that is so much research out there to show you that it actually works. And I think that's something that I really want to bring in, something that was really hard for me in academia. It felt like I was doing this this work, but no one was listening and no one was using it. So that's a big part of my drive for my business now is to actually take all of this research that's over here in locked up in these journals because not everyone has the experience of being able to read and understand that kind of language. So the knowledge isn't that readily accessible to just anyone. So for me, it's about finding it. And there's so much out there that it's like if you do this, you'll increase your productivity by 10 percent or something like, well, of course I'm going to take that. And, you know, why not? So that's kind of where I get to use both of my science background and this and this creativity. So even no one can say a family, but even the beautiful color of my workplace in my home office is not just an aesthetic choice, it's the science behind this choice. So that's kind of for me, it's all about having that evidence base.
Emily:
And I think a lot of workplaces are still kind of based on, you know, tradition of work hours because society was very different, like 20, 30, 40 years ago. And we really actually made that push to shift it to kind of be more compatible with the way today's society is, you know, double income families and that kind of thing. So I really I think it's amazing what you're doing, really. And I'm sort of came to see how it goes because I think. Have you launched already or it's about to launch?
Tonja:
It depends when this interview comes out.
Emily:
So this will come out like mid-June, June to to late June.
Tonja:
Yeah. So it should be out, but that would definitely be some resources on my website that people can tap into to like quick wins for that productivity and well-being at work and especially working from home.
Emily:
So on that I will put a Lincoln episode description as well. But what's the name of your business and what's the website?
Tonja:
The name is designed to transform and it's designed to transform dotcom. And that's really what I wanted to do. This idea that design and this evidence based design can really transform your work experience and your life.
Emily:
And we've run out of time, unfortunately, again, like I feel like we could talk forever. Is it anything else that you'd like to quickly add at the end of this episode before we wrap up?
Tonja:
Yeah, I think just the biggest thing that I wanted to reiterate was just asking for help. And I know it can be really hard. I that's one of the hardest things for me always, even even now. So I think ask for help as soon as possible and really just make sure that you've got a great team around you.
Emily:
Yeah, it's a really good note to end on, I still find it really difficult as well, but you can kind of, I guess, build that muscle with with some practice. So, yeah, I'm working on that, too. Thanks for the reminder. So, yeah, thanks again for coming on. It's nice to have a fellow Aussie every now and again because we're on the same time schedule, make things nice and easy for me. And yeah, I'd love to stay in touch with you as well. I know you're on Instagram. I'll be having a look at your website when you launch, hopefully in June. And maybe I'll see you back in Melbourne for another bout of trivia.
Tonja:
Yes. I mean, I'm planning to get back whatever I get. Look forward to it.
Emily:
So that brings us close to the end of today's episode of Voices of Academia to Listening. Thanks for choosing to share some of your time with us. I'd love to know your takeaway from Tonja's story. Let me know on Twitter @EKing_Sci. Otherwise, I look forward to having you with me again in a couple of weeks, we'll hear from our next guest about their mental health story. Bye for now,
Emily:
Before you go, we have some support, resources and information for how you can share your own story if this episode brought anything up for you. There are mental health resources and emergency numbers available for various countries at www.checkpointorg.com/global. For information found in this episode, refer to the episode description or visit the podcast section of our website. www.voicesofacademia.com. There you can also access the full transcript of this episode made available by our lovely voices of academia team member Daniel Ranson. This podcast was written, hosted and produced by me, Emily, with support from some very special people in my life. You can find me on Twitter @EKing_Sci. for science, but I'm part of the larger voices of academia team. We have a website, a Twitter account @academicvoices and also share stories in blog form with the option of them being anonymous. If you like this podcast and want to hear more stories, please leave a review. Subscribe tell me what you think on Twitter and tell your friends. The podcast is available on Spotify, Apple podcasts and most other major listening platforms. You can also follow the Voices of Academia blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Just head to our Web site, www.voicesofacademia.com to sign up. If you have a mental health awareness story to share, we absolutely want to hear from you. Whether you're a team leader, research assistant, postdoc, student, ex academic or any other type of researcher. Fuller academic voices on Twitter. Visit the link in the episode description or visit our website www.voicesofacademia.com for details on how to share your story. It's time someone gave you a voice.
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