Ep19_Preventing the panic cycle_Dr Viviana Re.mp3
Ep19_Preventing the panic cycle_Dr Viviana Re.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix
Ep19_Preventing the panic cycle_Dr Viviana Re.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.
Emily:
Hey there! Today, we talk about recovery for panic attacks. Please be mindful if you continue to listen and reach out for support, if you need it today, we return to Italy with Dr. Viviana Re, an assistant professor in the Department of Earth Sciences. Viviana opened up previously in episode 18 about experiencing panic attacks during her postdoc and how they restricted her personal and work behavior. I've actually just started reading the book she recommended called Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers. Susan's got a really interesting way of framing fear and talking about how we hold ourselves back and what we can do to overcome that. So I definitely recommend that book. If you haven't already listened to the first part of Viviana's story, you might want to do that now. Today, Viviana shares how using therapy, the physical and meditative teachings from yoga and essential oils helps calm the nervous system and manage panic attacks.
Viviana:
After I started therapy, I think I learned these attacks have a purpose, so there is something that needs to come out and then you have to listen to. So instead of fearing that to happen, I kind of accepted and took as a functional and embrace them. So when I feel that something is happened, so I feel this coming instead of freezing and instead of panicking over the panic, let's say I just welcome it and say, OK, now it's coming. So just OK, probably I need to listen to something, and then it's kind of embracing that which makes it less scary and less painful somehow. So I think to me, at least was knowing that I'm not going to die already helps a lot. You know, so you feel you recognize the feeling and say, OK, maybe is that OK?
Emily:
So I have some news, and I might not sound super excited about it because I'm actually really nervous to ask, but, I had a really tearful discussion with my partner a few weeks ago about how much I put into this project and he really is encouraging me to see whether the listeners would be willing to support the podcast. Financially. So I'm going to talk about why and how you can support the podcast if you'd like to. But if you want to skip through that and you're more than welcome to and you can head straight to the start of this episode.
Emily:
So I do want to acknowledge that I know this can be a really expensive time of year and this is not a paid sponsorship, but actually I've just finished reading Real Life Money by Claire Seal. It's a really fantastic book about her journey. She ended up in 25,000 pounds worth of debt. And she talks about her relationship with money and how she started to try to get herself out of that position and all of the emotions that were coming up for her because she found out through this anonymous Instagram account called At My Frugal Year that there was so many other people in a similar situation. So I've really enjoyed reading that. And she's now started up the Financial Wellbeing Forum on Instagram @TheFWT Forum, and they've just started something on Facebook, a group on Facebook called the Mindful Christmas Club, and they will be talking about how much obligation we can feel around this time of year, how it's really easy to blow your budget because of marketing that sort of coming at you. And I'm engaging in that because I'm a PhD student on a stipend, but I thought it might be something that you would find interesting and helpful as well.
Emily:
So I guess, why am I looking for support? I've been volunteering on this project since August of 2020, and you might not know this, but I taught myself on the side of my Ph.D. how to develop a podcast, how to start to have sensitive conversations with people. I do all of the sound editing, sound engineering as well. I write all of the episode descriptions and make all of the teaser videos and audio, and I taught myself how to host the podcast and also distribute the podcast everywhere to all of the different listening platforms. So it's been a huge learning curve, and it probably takes me about 25 hours a month to complete this project. And I do that because it's important to me. And as you might know, by now, I suffered from an anxiety disorder and treatment resistant depression during my PhD, and I felt really alone, and I didn't really know many other people within academia that had experienced that. You know, that I could talk to or relate to. And now, through Voices of Academia, I've discovered that there's a global community of people that have these experiences, but also are willing to talk about them and feel comfortable talking about them. And I really hope that by sharing these stories, I can help prevent people from feeling as alone as I did and feeling like they didn't belong in academia or they weren't cut out for it.
Emily:
So this will never be a paid podcast. It's too important to me that it's accessible to everyone, and I absolutely know what it's like to be a PhD student on a stipend. So I definitely never want this to be behind a paywall. Voices of Academia as a whole is run by volunteers. It's, it's run by a small team of us, five of us, that do this on the side of, in my case, a Ph.D., but for the others, an undergraduate degree and on the side of full time jobs. And if you're not already aware, we have a social media account. We have a website where we share stories in blog form and we obviously have this podcast.
Emily:
So obviously it would make a lot of sense for us to have a group support page. We're an international team, so we actually don't have the expertise to do that, and it's something that we're sort of working on. But for now, we've decided as a team to run individual accounts to sort of help, to support us to continue to do some of this work. So in saying that, I'm asking that if you find value in this podcast, if you have the capacity to contribute, you know, if you have some spare change and you feel that you would like to do that to help me with running costs, I would really sincerely appreciate it. The link to do that is BuyMeACoffee.Com/VOApodcast, and I'd really love to personally thank each and every one of you on the first episode of each month should you choose to support the podcast.
Emily:
Obviously, we also have Daniel Ranson, who is helping the podcast become more accessible. So Daniel's a post doc and he volunteers for Voices of Academia on the side of that. He uses his time and also personal funds to download each episode of the podcast into a transcription software and then he goes through and manually edits all of the episodes so that hey are as accurate as possible.
Emily:
He also has a range of other mental health advocacy projects that he works on, and you can find out more about those on his buy me a coffee page. So if you'd like to support him and also the accessibility of the podcast, please had to BuyMeACoffee.com/DanielRanson. Thanks so much for listening. I really appreciate it. Let's get into this episode.
Emily:
Welcome to Voices of Academia with Emily King. It's a podcast where researchers from around the world open up about their mental health. They might laugh, cry or say things you disagree with, but this is lived experience, not professional advice. We cover some sensitive material, but it's worth it to normalise difficult conversations, reduce stigma and help people feel less alone. Let's get into it.
Emily:
So, Viviana, I mentioned in the last episode that we met because you were one of the very first people to sort of come forward when the Voices of Academia team expanded from blogs and announced that we were going to have the podcast. So I just want to thank you again, I guess, for coming forward. As I said in the last episode, I think it's so crucially important for people in more senior levels of academia to open up and sort of feel comfortable opening up and be, I guess, there as role models for some of us that are in the more junior areas. So we learned a bit about your life before you opened up about your story in the last episode. So similarly today I had a few questions before we get into the next part of your story. And we mentioned you like to read in your downtime. But this is a question, I guess, about if there's any yeah, books, but also TV or podcasts that you're listening to or watching in your downtime that you're really enjoying at the moment.
Viviana:
Well, there is a nice podcast about yoga and yoga philosophy that's called Yoga on the Sofa, and it's done by two yoga teachers, he is Dutch and she's Italian and it's in English. So if you are into yoga, I think it's really nice one because they are basically chatting on their sofa about many, many things about philosophy and they give book advises (recommendations) and meditations. So it's I really like to listen to that. It's it's really, I think, a nice one. Very, very well done. Then, well, a book that I this was the probably the first I bought when it was an advice from someone, one of the first people I mentioned that I was having these panic attacks. That is the fear, the fear and do it anyway. Way that. It's nice because it's again, when you read it, it helps you to, I don't know. Learning that it's common to have issues, it's common to experience and go through something and. You still can do stuff, so maybe going back to what we were saying, the other episode that that what you are going through doesn't is not you. But it's just the sensation, it's just a feeling so you can learn you can go through some tough times, et cetera, but you still you can. You are not a weak person or you're not a difficult person, not tough person, etc., etc. So yeah, I think those two are the and probably they are much more. But now I have like when you are doing the exam and you forgot what you said.
Emily:
Yeah, yeah. Mind blank. No, I'd be interested...
Viviana:
Some are in Italian, so probably not of interest for the international audience. So.
Emily:
Fair enough. I am going to put some of those podcasts recommendations in Italian into the resources for any of our Italian listeners. But maybe I could do it to, like, practice my Italian as well! But I'd be interested to read that book. I haven't heard of that one before, and I just I remember having this conversation with, I guess she's kind of more of an acquaintance when I was in the depths of, you know, I had an anxiety disorder and I sort of was explaining to her that. It felt like there was I actually sometimes visualized a tiger, like on the bus or like, in the corner of my home and it it really felt like it was about to attack me. Like, that's what that level of anxiety felt like for me sometimes. And I said, like, there are so many things that I can't do right now because it just feels like I'm going to be attacked. And she said, Yeah, but it always feels like that. You kind of just have to do it anyway. And like I can see now that I've learned how to manage some of this where she was coming from with that perspective that the fear doesn't actually go away. You kind of just learn how to manage it or how to. Tolerate it, perhaps at the time, I really didn't understand because I was like, no, like this feels dangerous, like it's actually I'm not there yet kind of thing. But I think it would be interesting to say if that book kind of touches on those different levels of where you can be at, you know, at the start. And then as you learn to sort of be more comfortable with fear, so keen to write that one. And yeah, the podcast that could be a nice, wholesome, philosophical yoga podcast for me now that I'm currently in another lockdown, so I might check that one out, too. Yeah. The next question is, who are you closest to and why?
Viviana:
Well, I have many, many people. Of course, there's my partner that's clearly helped me a lot during me. I think it's my support in many cases. And I think also, from his perspective, well, I cannot speak for himself, but I think it wasn't easy to see what I was going through because of course, if you is like also with friends, I mean, if you see someone suffering and struggling, it's not easy to to find the correct way to to help. And also because probably it may be the same thing with with anxiety. If someone says, Oh, it's OK, don't worry, there's nothing or is in your case that you were mentioning before, it's like, No, there's not the tiger. Nothing is going to happen. And this doesn't help at all, you know? But sometimes it's the I think it's the normal reaction to say someone, you're OK. It's fine. There is nothing. You are not in danger. It's you're going to be fine. Because in that moment, it still so intense that it's not going to be fun at all. So I think for the people that when we open up to, especially when we are through that phase, I think we what I did is I found some articles and stuff and I gave it to him and said, Look, that's how I feel and then how they say, how you can interact with me when I have this moment, which I feel kind of lost. Yeah. And then there are some, some good friends I shared my thoughts to, and it helps, but really is not easy because the thing you want to do is to work, at least to me, it happened that I wanted to like, isolate myself, to stay alone, to not to see everyone, because then they can spot that you're not okay. And then you feel you have to explain, justify something that you maybe don't understand yet.
Emily:
Well, that gets... I could relate to that so much. And actually, it's probably a story for another day, but just that concept of trying to kind of educate the people that are close to you in your life on how they might best be able to interact with you when you're unwell. It came up in the episode with Daniel Ranson, early on. He had a mental health support worker that came into his home and actually was helping his family understand how best to, and I think his partner as well, sort of how best to interact with him. But it's such an important point because, yeah, it is really difficult. It would be so difficult for them to know what to do and what to say, and that's just a whole nother kettle of fish. But yeah, I did the same thing. I found articles and sent them to my partner and I was like, This is what you might be able to do that might kind of help and just basically explained everything that was going on in my head to him. And, you know, thankfully he listened and we got through it.
Viviana:
Yeah, it's not easy. Probably, no. It's like if at some point you are with the person and then from one moment to another, it's completely different. So. May not be. Some people may not be ready for that change, or it's probably a load. Let's say that it's added to their load. So it's it's true. It's. It's difficult for for friends and family partners, too, but it's probably another step that relation had to go through and cannibal or not.
Emily:
Yeah, no. Yeah, definitely. I now like I know that my partner and I can get through really difficult phases, which is kind of a good thing to know. You know, early on in a relationship because obviously you're face like so many challenges throughout your lives. So yeah, for us, it's been a good thing. And the final question is what's at the top of your bucket list?
Viviana:
Oh, wow. This is a different question. I think there are many, many things, but the probably the top top is to. Allow myself to. To express myself or to be free and to be myself somehow. So what is strange in academia or in science in general, maybe in any world within academia? You know, you're constantly judged you as like the more you do the PhD, you are judged by the supervisor, the committee, the colleagues, the peers, then you, your progress, your career and then you become yourself, the one who judges, the students and the PhDs. At the same time, you are judged by your peers, your superiors. So it's very judgment is part of the life in academia. So to me, probably it's hard. It's been hard to split like you can judge my work, but not me or you can judge me, of course, if you feel like. But I will not allow you to. So it was something like we were saying the previous episode like setting boundaries. So in my priority list at the moment is really that like to allow myself to to to recognize and to feel and behave in the way I want and knowing that it's OK also like it processes through self-acceptance in very broad concept. But. Yeah. I don't know why
Emily:
It's such a it's such a wholesome answer, but I love it. And yeah, I mean, I can I can relate as well, and I think that would be I feel like that would be such an achievement to be able to be for anyone to be authentically them within academia. And I don't know, maybe for some people, it's easier than others, but I that's like a core trigger for me criticism. I've been heavily criticized throughout my whole life by some of my primary caregivers, so it's it's traumatic to be in that kind of environment where that's like, constantly exacerbated. And so, you know, I've chosen to stay because I want to try to work on those boundaries and sort of see if I can build a sphere where I'm able to be resilient to that level of attack that I feel, and I don't know if I will continue past my Ph.D.. I'm not really sure yet, but. There are a lot of considerations, I guess, but yeah, no, I I love that answer. Thank you. Gives me something to aspire to as well. Maybe we can check in with each other and see how we're going with it.
Viviana:
Yeah, exactly.
Emily:
Sorry. Just another social media shout out at the start of this episode for those unable to listen to the end. If anything, Viviana shares today resonates with you, you can get in touch with her on Twitter @BiralNas and also through her personal blog, and I'll put a link for both of those in the episode description.
Emily:
So we learned in the last episode that, Viviana, you decided to seek help after experiencing quite severe panic attacks, and that was sort of during your post doc that that impacted you the most. And yeah, we did sort of touch on this towards the end of the last episode, and I indicated I wanted to ask a question around this. So how did you determine which of your colleagues to open up to? I know that's a really it's probably an ongoing kind of learning phase. But but for you, what has that been like?
Viviana:
Yeah, I think it's a process. I'm still learning, actually. And well, I recently would not so recently. But I mean, lockdown and the pandemic can be recent in terms of relations. So I think the where I'm working now, I think I never mentioned that to to any of my colleagues, probably just one. We we had the chat. So with that person, I we start talking about mental health and therapy, whereas the others are we didn't have the chance here. I think it's really a matter of having the chance and be more in presence after the lockdown and the isolation, et cetera, due to the pandemic. But I don't know. I think now that we recorded the podcast, I think it would be a good chance for me to just say it straight or not. Every person I'm going to meet say, you know, I had panic attacks record, I feel like is like, be free to say is like, I don't know. For example, are you free tomorrow? No. At this time, I have to go therapy, for example, something like that like to normalize. So the the challenge I want to put to myself is just to to mention as a normal thing, because it is a normal thing. And that's it. So I can tell you in a few months how it's going.
Emily:
Yeah, yeah, it's it's definitely a process. I'm kind of doing a similar thing. And every time you do it and you get a response, that's either positive or just neutral. It kind of like takes you a little bit further along that road to feel a bit more comfortable the next time. But I guess so when you have because you mentioned in the last episode that, you know, sometimes people have responded negatively to you and sometimes, you know, like at that conference, you know, it was a really positive experience when you mentioned, you know, that you'd had panic attacks. So like, do you have any way of determining if it's colleagues or not? You know, friends, family, do you have any way of determining who would be sort of safe to open up to about panic attacks or mental illness or?
Viviana:
That's an interesting question. I think one thing could be. Want to bear in mind that. Maybe the not maybe I think this is something that they say yoga, for example, is or psychology that the. Response we give these to reflect is like we are mirror to the others, so the way someone reacts to what I'm saying, as in this case, like telling or talking about mental health. Tell us more about them, then what does it mean? So that's one thing. So maybe with this thing in mind, you can stop feeling not like we can stop fearing sharing our experiences because when we get feedback is not probably it bad an attack, but because we touch something to them and they react in in a defensive way. So it's like, for example, if I tell someone that I go to therapy and they say, Oh, but you're not able to deal alone or just friends, family and friends can help is not probably saying that you are weak, that you are not good enough, but it tells that this person fears. Going through some personal analysis, et cetera, et cetera, so maybe that's the that's the thing and like with close friends, maybe you can mention and then just. If they react badly, it can be starting of a conversation, like if you really care about that person and the reaction is not a suspect, that could be a starting of something like.
Viviana:
But why do you think so? So like opening up more? And then if someone has a bad reaction, you can try to make them understand how you feel or just say, OK, the way we were saying before like boundaries. So I say, OK, that's maybe you that have issues with this topic. And then. But it's the fear is that with our weaknesses, we fear that people can use them to harm us. So or that can be used to, yeah, to exclude us for something, you know, like when they say, Oh, but you're too anxious, you know, and then the feeling is that you fear that they will not give that assignment. That requires a lot of work under pressure, but you can always prove that they're wrong. But in any case, if it's not, they in a very competitive environment that could be whatever. So. I think the moment we once is ready to speak about this issue, the rest will come and you'll find a way to to to talk and feel safe. I think the point is that if you feel safe because you for you, it's OK, then other people reaction maybe will not affect you much.
Emily:
Yeah, that's a really good point, because yeah, it's there's so many levels to that because it's about, I guess, once you've kind of come to some sort of acceptance within yourself to then feel comfortable to maybe opening up. And then when you're choosing who to open up, you know, there is a level of selectivity in that to try to find someone that's safe. But if you don't. You can have also reached a level where that doesn't matter as much because, yeah, you've kind of learned not to internalize other people's judgments of you. So I guess there are there are a lot of different layers to that. So yeah, it's an interesting point. Um, yeah, so I guess the cultural elements for you being in Italy, so. So like I said in the last episode, I, you know, I'm aware that, you know, there's a big, big family culture and I don't know whether it's stereotypical or not. But definitely when I was in nanny there, like everyone was involved in everyone else's lives and all the cousins were over and, you know, is beautiful. Like, it was very supportive, but I can see how potentially that might lead to. Some. Opinions that certain issues should be kept within the family. So like I don't know, is that is that sort of your experience? Have you kind of experience any cultural barriers to seeking help outside of your personal network?
Viviana:
Yeah, absolutely. That's the it's a common sense somehow. But things, as I say, I'm changing because you see more people seeking for help and just for maybe you don't. I can be a little thing and then you just need to talk to someone because it helps to align things or put things together in a way that makes you understand clearly what you're going through, which phase of your life are. So I see that now it's becoming less strange to for people to go to therapy, to see psychologists, etc. even at university. There are a lot of these everywhere in the world, I think like support for mental health. But yeah, I think traditionally that's the this idea that there is a motto that I can translate literally. But then someone knows the translation stuff like dirty clothes are washed inside the home. Italian would be punished participation in Casa if someone listening know this translation for that. So basically, it's like what your staff has to stay in the private sphere, in the domestic sphere
Emily:
Because we say in English, it's don't air your dirty laundry.
Viviana:
Ok, so yeah, yeah, then yeah, because again, this is the judgment thing that you may is like the therapist will know something private of you. They take advantage or they will talk about you or et cetera, et cetera. So there is this. Free concept, probably still, but it's. I think the pandemic made clear that there was a peak of increase, I've heard about people going to therapies, therapy and also taking anti-depressants. So one side effect is probably that people realize that alone they cannot do anything and then that the good advice of a friend in front of a glass of wine is not the same thing as the professional who's up for it. So I think again, it's becoming we are, I think, on the way to normalizing that health issue at any level, like every small thing to big, big, like complex problems can be. Part of the life, and if there is a way to wear someone that can help us to feel better, not to go. I personally think that if everybody could go to therapy at least one or two years, then the world would be a better place.
Emily:
Yeah, I agree, definitely.
Viviana:
Because if you can handle. Like someone that makes you too, I don't know. Put together your thoughts and your frustration and your anger, and you are able to cope with that and deal with that and maybe solve some issues. Then you don't put your. In your judgment, your fear over the others, so that would be probably a societal improvement.
Emily:
Yeah, yeah. Literally everyone I speak to, I'm like, You should go to therapy, you know, not in that way. Just like, Hi, I'm Emily. You should go to therapy. But just like I, yeah, I used to have all these preconceived notions about what it would be like and what it meant about the person that was going to them. And now it's just been completely flipped on its head. And yeah, there are still people in my life that have very judgmental ideas of what a therapist is and believe that it's not going to be helpful for them because they believe it's simply just like talking about your feelings. But it's so much more than that. And like I said earlier, I just I think it's so important for learning how to sort of manage all of the different types of relationships in your life. And yeah, all of your different emotions that you haven't necessarily been educated how to handle previously because our society doesn't really do that. So I don't know where I would have been in this pandemic if I hadn't have already done three years of therapy. Let me put it that way.
Viviana:
Yeah, it's been tough.
Emily:
But aside from therapy. Yeah. Aside from therapy, what sort of some of the practices and resources you found helpful to prevent or manage panic attacks?
Viviana:
Well, I think yoga in general, including not only the physical practice, but also the breathing. So the prayer and the meditation helped a lot. And I realize that when I started doing that on a regular basis, like daily, it really it really changed your. Not only your body, but your your mind, your way of thinking. And in the end, I learned that actually breathing helps, even if at the beginning I was saying, no, this probably won't be fixed. If you know it's like, I cannot take the plane because I fear suddenly I don't know. I have time before taking the plane if I breathe. The plane is there and I have to go on the plane. But in the end, it's true. It really comes down to your nervous system. And also, I really I discovered that I really like the essential oils, so I like playing with essential oils and to. To to some to relieve stress and focus, so it's. It's all probably part of the more holistic world and related to to yoga, but if it helps, why not?
Emily:
Yeah, definitely. What particular essential oils do you use?
Viviana:
I like mint a lot, and lemon and mint is very good for headache. Lavender, they say it's really like everyone said it's really calming down, but I'm I like it, but it's not my my favorite probably is too strong as a smell. And then eranium, I don't know.
Emily:
Yeah, it's so good.
Viviana:
But yeah, I think I had a few two years ago because I was doing my mosquito repellent on my own, and then I started reading more and more. And then I, both men now have my little collection.
Emily:
I bought a starter kit during the pandemic last year, and I've since then gifted a few, so I'm building up my collection as well. So like, I guess this is probably going to be difficult to answer because I imagine it's got a number of different components, but I'd sort of be interested to learn or find out how you've learned to manage the panic attacks, whether it's preventative or in the moment or even afterwards, because I imagine they you know, your brain is so wired that afterwards, I imagine you'd be sort of in a state of exhaustion. So are you able to sort of share some information around that?
Viviana:
Yes. Well, after I I started therapy, I think I learned that these attacks have a purpose. So there is something in. That needs to come out, so they're the trigger may be something that has to come out and then you have to listen to. So instead of fearing that to happen, I kind of accepted and took as a functional and embrace them. So when I feel that something is happening, I feel this coming instead of. Freezing and instead of panicking over the panic, let's say I just. Well, come in and say, OK, now it's coming, so just OK, probably some I need to listen to something and then it's kind of embracing that which make it less scary and less painful somehow. So I really had a few, well, one recently. But you know, when you know that I think to me at least was knowing that I'm not going to die already helps a lot. You know, so you feel you recognize the feeling and say, OK, maybe that so. Yeah. Either you embrace that or you start breathing, you do some breath in a way that maybe you can learn through through yoga and then it's like, Come here, what do you need to tell me? I noticed a very not so scientific bent, but to me, it helps a lot because it's like.
Viviana:
Not fearing the worst to happen and knowing that is like. Part of your body or is something that is you can recognize, so that's why I'm saying that you. Talking to someone that helps you not only how to handle that, but also the roots and why it's happening, and then you can go through the process learning what's. Your body is telling you or why you are having this panic attack, and then you can put the pieces together and then you. You don't feel that anymore. So I think I solved the issue that. Gave origin to what I had during my postdoc, and now sometimes it happened, but I'm I'm prepared and I. It's like you sit down and wait that it goes without breaking out without really. And to me, the most important thing was really to understand that really I was not in danger physically. That's that I'm not going to die now because I lose control of my body.
Emily:
And what what is the process of recovery like afterwards? Is it quite rapid or what's that like?
Viviana:
I think it depends from person to person. To me, it was not so rapid. And probably it's true that once you open the Pandora's box, many things are so it's not a linear linear progress process probably is more. Many things that. You need to to understand. I've been you go through.
Emily:
Let me just clarify. Sorry, sir. I understand, like sort of getting to the root of some of the causes would would be a journey that's absolutely not linear in terms of an acute panic attack on the day that that happens. You mean, what's the recovery like immediately after you've just had a panic attack for you?
Viviana:
No, I think I can. I'm OK with that. So very I'm OK. Very soon after that because I think I know what's going on and then I take it. I'm less affected that in the beginning, at the first time when it happened, it took a while because of course, I was not only physically, because then you have pain like physical pain, but then you start breathing normally again, et cetera, et cetera. But mentally is more like why it happened to me. What's wrong with me? So I'm wrong, et cetera, et cetera. So without. The working on this aspect, it took me. A week or so to feel relaxed again, because then I was questioning myself and judging myself so badly. Now I just. I think I'm more prepared, and then I think, for example, like why what I was doing before, what did I say before it happened? And then I'm still reasoning, but more in a more, let's say, not non-judgemental way. So I feel. Ok. In a few hours after it happens, so there is a different reaction to the answer.
Emily:
Yeah, no, definitely answer to the question. Yeah, yeah, no, I was just interested because I just never learned about that aspect of things before, and I wondered whether you might need to put certain things in place afterwards, like relaxation techniques or anything afterwards at all. But it seems like it's that helps. Ok. Do you do that?
Viviana:
Yes, and it's breathing. I think now when it happens, I come down trying to to breathe and then it goes through relaxation and then I'm kind of OK.
Emily:
So we're pretty much at the end of this episode, Viviana, I've just got one final question. I know you sort of said that you felt a lot like you needed to hide this from people at the start and you you felt like you needed to hide your feelings. And I guess you've sort of identified it as a bit of the feminine side. What would you say to someone that currently feels like their only solution is to hide what they're feeling?
Viviana:
Well, I would say to consider other options, so one thing is always to try to do what makes you feel comfortable. So there is no probably right solution for everyone, but probably if in this process, the dominant question is what if in the catastrophic way? Try to think the other way around. Like what if things go well, what if I talk to someone and then? I get some advice as I get a nice book reading, so for example, my experience was that when I started talking to open up to this conference to those people that are now friends, it was like sharing a bit of our processes and then some readings and a third set. So maybe it doesn't hurt too much if you. Start opening up, so and hiding isolating may not be. It could be a good solution for like to to get ready to recharge and then try to make this effort. If you feel, of course, there are different approaches, but maybe try and start with those you trust the most. And you feel that you can have like a sincere conversation, pure, genuine one. Then things will will change. And. I think. Try to process thing and try to get through that. It may be it can hurt, but I think it hurts more to stay like this. So to if you just leave with those feelings, you just leave with the fear, it just leave with the panic attacks, then it can become the normal. But it's definitely less pleasant than trying to. Go through a process that may be challenging, they may be difficult, but in the end it's. Who gives you too many more positive feelings and. And you have to be brave, probably to to start that, but it's really, really worth it.
Emily:
Yeah. And I wish someone had said something like that to me about four or five years ago, so I'm sure that will be helpful to plenty of people listening. So, yeah, that does bring us to the end of today's episode. Thank you again, Viviana, for sharing.
Viviana:
Thank you for hosting me.
Emily:
My pleasure. And I feel like we have a lot in common as well as we've discovered. So I'd love to keep in contact with you and connect on Twitter afterwards, and we can check in with each other and how we're going. Yeah, definitely. As a final reminder, Viviana is available on Twitter at @BiralNas and through her personal blog. That brings us close to the end of today's episode of Voices of Academia to you listening. Thanks for choosing to share some of your time with us. I'd love to know your takeaway from Viviana story. Let me know on Twitter @EKing_Sci for Science. Otherwise, I look forward to having you with me again in a couple of weeks. We'll hear from Dr. Kartik Air about the unhealthy student supervisor relationships that can develop within academia. Before now, before you go,
Emily:
We have some support resources and information for how you can share your own story. If this episode brought anything up for you, there are mental health resources and emergency numbers available for various countries. At www.Checkpointorg.Com/Global. For information found in this episode, refer to the episode description or visit the podcast section of our website www.VoicesOfAcademia.com. There you can also access the full transcript of this episode made available by our Lovely Voices of Academia team member Daniel Ranson.. This podcast was written, hosted and produced by me, Emily, with support from some very special people in my life. You can find me on Twitter at Aching Underscore Sci for science, but I'm part of the larger Voices of Academia team. We have a website, a Twitter account @AcademicVoices and also share stories in blog form, with the option of them being anonymous. If you like this podcast and want to hear more stories? Please leave a review. Subscribe, tell me what you think on Twitter and tell your friends. The podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and most other major listening platforms. You can also follow the Voices of Academia blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Just head to our website www.VoicesOfAcademia.com to sign up. If you have a mental health or wellness story to share, we absolutely want to hear from you. Whether you're a team leader, research assistant, postdoc, student x academic or any other type of researcher, follow at academic voices on Twitter. Visit the link in the episode description or visit our website www.VoicesOfAcademia.com For details on how to share your story, it's time someone gave you a voice.
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