EB - Vail Ross STR Core.mp4

EB - Vail Ross STR Core.mp4: Video automatically transcribed by Sonix

EB - Vail Ross STR Core.mp4: this mp4 video file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

VAIL ROSS:
And video and voice correct?

ADAM GOWER:
Yes.

VAIL ROSS:
OK.

ADAM GOWER:
Yeah.

VAIL ROSS:
I'm going to do my best that one of my animals does not jump up, or....

ADAM GOWER:
You're at home. It didn't occur to me, of course, that's right, alright.

VAIL ROSS:
We're not working in any offices. So we are from home.

ADAM GOWER:
I have to tell you, Vail. Just don't let me get you wrong or anything but you remind me, sitting there..Most of the people that I talk to look like they're at home.

VAIL ROSS:
Well, I've had to do alot of these so I'm trying to at least look professional enough and every day get up and shower and put on a little makeup at least.

ADAM GOWER:
Well, I was going to say, you remind me of Leave it to Beaver's mom, if you remember she had a beautiful string of pearls while she was doing all the housework.

VAIL ROSS:
Yes. Yes. Yes.

ADAM GOWER:
So definitely.

VAIL ROSS:
We have to keep it a little bit fancy.

ADAM GOWER:
Definitely a lot further ahead than ninety.....anybody else that I've actually interviewed that I can think of so thank you so much.

VAIL ROSS:
You're welcome.

ADAM GOWER:
For being so wonderfully prepared, Vail.

VAIL ROSS:
Thank you.

ADAM GOWER:
You are Senior Vice President, Global Business Development and Marketing at STR and almost exactly three years ago, I had a wonderful conversation with Amanda Hite. She was one of my first podcast guests during my first series and you and I chatted about this before we started the podcast today. So let me ask. I know you listened to that. Thank you very much for listening to it. Let's start off with how the world looks different and I think that's fairly obvious, but I'd love to hear it from your perspective, than it did three years ago, based on what Amanda was talking about and she actually made some very interesting points as you know, during that. And in what ways, actually, are things the same?

VAIL ROSS:
Very good. Well, first off, thank you so much for the invitation and I'm delighted to join you and speak to you today during these very interesting and in some cases dire and in some cases beautiful times. So thank you very much. So a couple things that popped into mind of what's different.

VAIL ROSS:
Obviously, when you were speaking with Amanda, one of her comments was that we are growing and building and opening more hotels than we ever had before. And the good news was, is that we were selling more rooms than we have ever sold before. Well, that right now is not the case. We are temporarily closing more hotels than we have ever closed in the history of STR since we've been collecting information. Currently, right now, our hotel supply is down 12% as of April. So a lot of hotels are temporarily closed and obviously, from a demand standpoint, the demand is down significantly. We have experienced demand loss in astonishing numbers to the extent of having demand down in April, just the month of April alone, over 68 percent. So those are two items that, out of the gate, are absolutely not in the environment that we were in when you spoke with Amanda.

VAIL ROSS:
One of the things that is quite interesting, however, is that when you look at our construction pipeline. So, all of the hotels that are currently under construction, that has not slowed down whatsoever. We have actually exceeded our prior peak back in 2008 where we had over two hundred. I think if my memory serves me right, it was 211,000 rooms under construction in December of 2007. So it was right before the market fell in 2008. As of April, we have 220,000 plus rooms currently under construction. So we are still continuing to build in this environment, which I think says a lot of the confidence that this asset class does have, from an investment community. You know, we will come back. It's going to take a lot longer than it's taken in the past. But to stop these projects right now appears to, to not be an option. And we're not seeing the pipeline slowdown.

ADAM GOWER:
So what is, Vail, what is 200,000 rooms as a percentage of the total supply?

VAIL ROSS:
So right now, well, of the total supply, we're looking at about a 2% increase to what our existing supply is today, which is on average, what our growth rate is. So if we look at all the hotels that are currently open, what will likely open today we'll see a 2% increase in supply because that two hundred and twenty are not going to all open this year.

ADAM GOWER:
Right. Exactly. So why are they still under construction? I mean, is that, you know, there's always this expression during downturns. I've always thought of developers like to continue digging themselves into a hole, basically. I mean, I don't want to be too gloomy. We've got to look at the bright side and we'll get to that. But tell me, why is that continuing?

VAIL ROSS:
Well, I think a couple different things. The funding is already there. The labor is there. You know, we came off of some of the lowest unemployment rates. There were people that were looking for jobs. And it was actually to a point where construction was starting to slow down a little bit because of labor costs, because of material cost. That doesn't seem to be the case now. And as I mentioned, the funding is in place. Also, what is quite unique is that, while it's actually not unique, I take that back. It's very similar to what we saw in 2017, which, the type of hotels that we are building are more in the select service, which tend to do a bit better in downturns because their overhead is not so high like a full service hotel.

VAIL ROSS:
They also are often driven by more transient demand. They don't have, they're not impacted as much as large group hotels and that, obviously right now, group business, it's really unknown on when that's going to come back and what that's going to look like. So, about 71% of the hotels that are currently under construction are in that select service segment. So, to answer your question on why is the construction continuing? It's also not expensive to build those property, as expensive to build those properties as a full service, and they can be opened up faster, if needed. So, if this was all a luxury build or big boxes, my guess would be, we would probably have more deferments and postpones.

ADAM GOWER:
And you're not seeing banks pulling back from extending credit to construction that's in progress because, and I remember during the last downturn, material adverse changes. Right? The projections, everything's changed so no more construction draws. You're not seeing that?

VAIL ROSS:
So that is data that STRE does not collect but what I'm hearing, and in panels that I am involved in, is that there are actually, there is a lot of capital out there that is looking to invest in this sector and to, and especially the investment side of multi-family groups that own multi-family are looking to expand their portfolio and are looking to hospitality. So I am hearing that. Now we don't have any data on that but that's what I'm hearing from my colleagues.

ADAM GOWER:
Well, you're, you know, you're at the epicenter of everything, hotels. So, being specific about whether you collect the data or not. Anecdotal is just fine Vail.. It's certainly fine from what we talked about. So, just to contextualize something and I do want to talk about that multi-family thing, so we'll get back to that.

ADAM GOWER:
But just for those, that one person who's listening that doesn't understand what a 68 percent drop in revenues means to the hotel industry, just to be clear. Breakeven levels in hotels are, what, north of 70-80 percent occupancy? I mean, it's super high.

VAIL ROSS:
No. Well, actually, well. On national level, the The breakeven, on average, needs to be above 55 percent.

ADAM GOWER:
OK.

ADAM GOWER:
And right now, occupancy, well, occupancy for the month of April was 24 percent.

ADAM GOWER:
OK. So on a 12 month moving average or really kind of, if we want to look at just year-to-date. So, from where we were, you know, January through April, occupancy levels were a little bit higher than, it was 45.7%. So, to be able to breakeven nationally, it needs to be north of 55. Full service, it's going to be closer to 60 to 65% and then depending on what market you're in. Obviously, markets such as San Francisco and New York, it needs to be higher than that. So for those listeners, these are numbers on a national level that we have never seen before. It's been like no other downturn than we've ever had before.

ADAM GOWER:
What? Tell me. Let's compare it actually, directly with the last downturn, the 2007-2008, which was also catastrophic for the hotel industry. I remember and I also remember Amanda saying that it's the hotel industry is one that goes into downturns faster but also recovers faster. It goes in faster and harder and then recovers faster so just compare the two, will you? Just put into perspective.

VAIL ROSS:
Yes. So, on your conversation with Amanda. One of the conversations, one of the metrics that she says is really, that she stated, that is really key to the hotel industry is RevPAR, which is Revenue Per Available Room. It is one of those metrics as well that leads indication to profitability. Obviously, a lot of management companies and general managers and revenue managers are bonused on that RevPAR number. So to just speak to RevPAR, if we are looking at where the RevPAR decline is year-to-date through April, it is down 34.3%. So compared to, and for the month, it was down 79.9%. So, to compare that to the downturn that we had in, the most recent one, the financial crisis, the most extreme month of RevPAR declines we had was, little over 20%.

ADAM GOWER:
That's incredible. Four times that.

VAIL ROSS:
Four times that. And, if you looked at even, what happened after September 11, the worst month was around 23% decline in RevPAR. So, those recoveries were V-shaped, especially in 2001. 2008 took a bit longer. It took about twice as long, from a recovery standpoint, to get those RevPAR numbers back up. So, what we are predicting and what we're forecasting is that likely, this will take...

VAIL ROSS:
So in the past downturns from the highest peak to the lowest peak, it took about 12 months in 2001 and 19 months in 2009. To recover to get back to those levels, it took pretty much double that timeframe. So, 24 months to get levels back up to prior downturn in 2001 and around 37 months to get back to where we were in post 2009.

ADAM GOWER:
With these declines, it wouldn't be a surprise if we wouldn't start to see occupancy and rate levels to get back up until 2024, potentially into 2025.

ADAM GOWER:
Really? So let me ask you about that because if, you know, this is obviously talking head stuff, fail, I don't want you, you know, it sounded daft, but, you know, we're all in it together. And I think, you know, if there's a cure or if there's a vaccine and that's going to happen, you know, some people saying by the end of the year, let's hope so but more likely, you know, at the end of next year. I mean, the second that happens, doesn't that just throw the switch straight back onto full, full vigor? I mean, everybody's who's been cooped up in their homes for months, months, wanting to get out and go somewhere. You don't see a, like a, you know, a kind of a decline and then a complete turnaround almost overnight.

VAIL ROSS:
So that would be, I mean, that would be best case scenario. I think a couple of different things that would take into play. People are going to have to feel safe. So health is going to dictate just as much as the economic factors. We have to remember, we have the largest unemployment rate right now that has hurt people financially. So, even if they had the ability today, we all get a vaccination, we're ready to go. So many people have been economically impacted by this. They may not have the means to do it or they may be so gun shy that, well, what if we have a spike again? What if this vaccination doesn't work? So that confidence level has to be there.

VAIL ROSS:
So, in this recovery, what is going to be key, obviously, finding a vaccination or a cure is going to speed it up sooner rather than later. However, making sure that travelers feel, not only safe traveling and in their hotel rooms, but that they feel financially safe to be able to do it as well which is going to be much different. And if you look at the past downturns, in 2001, it was a safety. Do I feel like I'm going to, is there going to be a threat of terrorism? Financially, we were in a better position. And then in an economic downturn, it wasn't a matter of safety to my health or safety to my being, it was the safety of my pocketbook. And it didn't, you know, corporate was still happening. We don't have corporate happening now.

ADAM GOWER:
Let's talk about something a little bit. Let's pivot to a slightly different perspective, actually, because in amongst crisis, which obviously we're in, particularly the hotel industry, really is at the sharp edge of this problem, is opportunity. And you've already mentioned multi-family or apartment financiers or owners taking an interest in hospitality. And your implication was, that their interest was to diversify away from 30-day rentals to 1-day rentals, right? To move actually into full-on hospitality. But, are you seeing any indications of adaptive reuse of hotels. People turning them into apartments, senior housing. I've been reading about other kinds of uses. Are you seeing any kind of trends or indications of that yet?

VAIL ROSS:
You know, not yet today like what we did after Katrina. That was one time where we actually saw a lot of hotels that did not reopen as hotels. They were switched into another type of an asset class. Oftentimes it was either condos or it was office space. So, some of the things that we are seeing and that we're hearing is that, the one segment that is actually not doing as badly as everybody else right now is "extended stay". So, that has been a sector that is actually performed a little bit better than some of the others. And the thought is, is that there are a couple of reasons for that. People are going to go where the jobs are and they may not be wanting to necessarily stay in a apartment. They may not want to have a 12-month lease or an 18-month lease or things of that nature. Right now, with short term rental, some people feel comfortable with that. Others don't. So what we're seeing is that, that extended stay hotel product is really becoming appealing. And I think investors potentially see that as well that, that is going to likely be a sector that, of our hotel classes that start to do well as people start to travel where the jobs are. As well as, in every other downturn and especially this downturn, what helped drive us out, was transient and leisure travel and that is going to come back. To your point earlier, once people do feel safe, it may not be a sharp V recovery, but it will come back and people will travel with a vengeance. They really will. Whether it will be to see people or friends or family members that they haven't seen or to really realize, to have a sense of, you know, life is too short and I've got to go and see these things that I need to see because I may not have a chance.

VAIL ROSS:
You know, I just, I feel like that will come back and investors know that and the data is there to prove it. I don't have an, I should, definitely I can follow up with you but we do have some great profitability data and it'll be interesting to see because, again, profits are hit so hard right now and there are hotels that are just operating on skeleton crews. But historically, this has been a segment that has been profitable and I would foresee that while right now we are not in a profitable state, we will continue to be an asset class that is profitable and that is also interesting.

ADAM GOWER:
And you're making the distinction of profitability in the extended stay.

VAIL ROSS:
Extended stay and as in general, this industry is incredibly profitable, historically has been.

ADAM GOWER:
And extended stay, presumably is weathering the storm a little better because they have kitchens, right?

VAIL ROSS:
They have kitchens. Yeah.

ADAM GOWER:
That's a big distinction. So you don't actually have to, you know, you're not. How do you eat when you can't go to a restaurant and et cetera, et cetera? Right? You've got to cook.

VAIL ROSS:
Exactly.

ADAM GOWER:
So presumably, that's helpful.

VAIL ROSS:
It is helpful as well as you've got still, some workers and some movement of goods and let's say they're going to be in an area for more than a week, oftentimes, it's the products that people are looking for. And to your point, they can bring in their own food. They can cook. It's more isolated.

ADAM GOWER:
Now, when you talk about some hotels not opening during, after Katrina, etc. Presumably that's happening now. And I've heard anecdotally, quote, I mean, I paraphrase a quote that I heard somebody said "some hotel owners are already handing their keys back to the bank". So tell me something about what is going on in terms of, the kind of, you know, throw your arms up and give up, kind of level, and what do you seeing in terms of transactions or transfers to other owners?

VAIL ROSS:
So, I have not seen any stats on that lately. However, I was just on a panel with a woman by the name of Suzanne Mellen who is with HVS. They actually do track transactions and evaluations. And, you know, what they are saying is that they are starting to see that, but really right now, these owners are turning in the asset if they absolutely have to. What we are seeing right now is that, there is really a level of trying to get cash. And we've seen the brands be quite creative with getting some cash flow and that these hotels are operating on skeleton crews and doing what they can to remain open, knowing that when things start to open back, they can ramp up. You know, there will be hotels that don't come back out of this. Absolutely. That will happen.

ADAM GOWER:
What will be, what class will that be, do you think? I mean, what type of hotel is that more likely to impact?

VAIL ROSS:
That's a good question.

ADAM GOWER:
Is it gonna be the small boutique hotel?

Is it? Yeah, I would think if if I had to make a guess, it's going to be. I can't imagine it being the big box, the big box convention hotels that that's there.

VAIL ROSS:
So I would, yeah, I would think, if I had to make a guess, it's going to be, I can't imagine it being the big box, the big box convention hotels. They're such amazing assets. I do think it could likely be maybe some of the smaller hotels that maybe are not affiliated with a brand, independent, probably in nature. Maybe in some destinations that don't have strong drive to, you know, there's a lot of destinations out there around the world where you can't, the drive market doesn't exist. It's just a small little area and you're not going to drive. So we may see some hotels that permanently shut down, you know. A destination that I love dearly, that comes to mind, that I actually have been following is Bermuda, for example. 70 percent of their, I think the stat was 70 percent of their community is employed by travel and tourism. That island is 23 miles long, I think, and 5 miles wide. There's no drive market to Bermuda so airlift and cruise line is huge. So, there could be some small little properties that are going to have to, that this could wipe them out. But, I can't foresee the big ones, ones that are affiliated with brands unless it's a matter of selling the asset and it's going to make more money as a different type of a asset class.

ADAM GOWER:
Yeah. So I was going to dovetail into this point that you made that some of the big chains are doing what they can to get cash. So what are they doing to get cash? Are they selling some assets to release cash to protect, like, the lower, you know, the lesser performing assets, they're getting rid of in order to shore up the rest of the portfolio or what are they doing?

VAIL ROSS:
Well, I think what we're hearing more is just what they're doing to the consumer base. I mean, they're offering discounts on gift cards, on things in advance to try to get the cash flow in. You know, it's been more of, from what I have read, and from what I've seen has been a lot of, on the creative marketing side. How to actually get people to be incentivized so that when the travel is back they will come to a Marriott or a Hilton through buying these gift cards or buying other types of packages in advance. So I've seen a lot of that. The unloading of assets, I have not heard of yet. I'm sure that's to come.

ADAM GOWER:
And then how is the industry showing up because my understanding is that, especially with the chains, the flagged hotels, those are all franchisees, aren't they, essentially. So how are, but they're operated as independent businesses. So how are the chains supporting franchisees in that way? What are the dynamics there?

VAIL ROSS:
You know, I don't have a lot of insights in that and nor have I. That's oftentimes what the chains will keep quite close to themselves. But, I do know that they are looking to support them in their marketing efforts, you know, whether they're waiving any types of fees, I don't know and nor have I heard it, and to be quite honest, I don't know that they would speak to that anyway. You know, the earnings calls probably will lend to that as we get on into the second, into the second area. I think one of the things that they are doing is really creating a sense of safety. There has been a lot. Each brand has a theme of coming back. We're here for you. Here's what we're doing to make sure that when we are traveling again, you're safe in our hotel rooms. So that, on a roundabout way, in a direct way too, is helping their franchisees because that is marketing the brand. Best Western has theirs. IHG has theirs, Hilton and Marriott. And then on top of that, the American Hotel and Lodging Association has done an amazing job in creating a safe stay guidelines that all of the major brands, management companies, ownership companies have signed on to. That is also helping their members and helping their franchise owners and AAHOA is doing the same thing. The Asian American Hotel Owners Association. So that then helps their their franchise owners.

ADAM GOWER:
What are you seeing are the "best efforts"? Let's talk about something really positive. Amongst all this, you've got some creative, you've got some very creative people who are working in an industry that, during the good times and even today, brings joy to all their customers. That's what the hotel industry is about. Having a good time, away from home and enjoying life. So these are creative, happy, I imagine, happy people working in a great industry. So, what are you seeing, in the industry, have surprised you again anecdotally about some of the really cool things people are doing to, you know, kind of shine a brighter light on what's happening?

VAIL ROSS:
Well, I think a couple of things and the stories that you hear and this industry. I don't necessarily know that it's a surprise around the fact of how caring and giving this industry has been during this time. That does not surprise me. Some of the creative ways in which they're doing it, I think is fascinating.

VAIL ROSS:
You know, close to home, I'm going to speak to a local hotel, which I can't name, although, I'm sure you can Google it, has done an amazing job here in Nashville, Tennessee, where we have songwriters and we have music, is at the core of what this community is about and they are creating. They used to have obviously, in their bar, and restaurant, singer-songwriter night, where they would have all these little local singers and songwriters come and play their shows and it was a great revenue stream for not only the hotel, but for the songwriters. Well, now that we cannot gather, what they started to do is, "drive-in". So, they are posting and hosting a stage in their parking lot with the singer and songwriter and people will drive in. They keep the car separated out. People can listen to the music. They have curb delivery, food and drinks or they can bring their own and it's a donation to the songwriter and it's a way to get people out again in a safe way, supporting singer songwriters in our community and oftentimes some of the proceeds will go to the first responders. I think, again, what the hospitality community has done, as a whole, in helping our first responders has been absolutely unbelievable. And just, getting back to a sense of community as well, whether it be with local restaurants, just very creative ways to make people feel safe, to still have an experience and to support employees and overall entrepreneurs within their communities.

ADAM GOWER:
Yeah, I should have asked about that. Just curious. So I've read about a lot of hotels that are providing access to their facilities to first responders. Forgive me for asking a question, it's a little bit crass. I mean, everybody is trying to survive right now in the hotel industry, particularly, is struggling to survive, right, a lot of these hotels. Are they really giving away these rooms? Or are they receiving some kind of rental income from it through the medical industry or through hospitals or grants or otherwise?

VAIL ROSS:
So oftentimes they are getting, yes, some funds for it at an incredibly low rate. Sometimes it's actually through the facilities themselves. So, the health care facilities are contracting with the hotels. Sometimes it's the city that's attracting or contracting with the hotels or a third party group. So there is. It is a way of absolutely continuing to keep the operation open and employ people, as well as providing a safe place for the first responders so that they can, you know, obviously it's sad that they aren't able to be with their family, but that they can protect their family as well. But it is at. It depends on how the agreement is made and what the contract is and how it is contracted out of what types of money is coming in for that room.

ADAM GOWER:
Let's change a little bit as we move towards wrapping up and start talking about, what I presume is your area of true expertise, career base and that is marketing, right? That's global marketing. So you're a very senior person over there at STR. So, in terms of marketing, how are hotels. What are you seeing are practices for hotels today in how they're marketing?What are they doing that's really effective?

VAIL ROSS:
I think to go back to the statement of, it's a safe place and to come back and these campaigns that they are doing to go back to the American Hotel and Lodging Association, which for those listeners who may not know, they are the leading advocates for the American hotel and lodging space. They have created an amazing campaign that is really encouraging people to start to feel safe and traveling again. They are a great umbrella for the overall industry themselves. I think the brands have done a phenomenal job in coming up with these campaigns and really humanizing and making it a sensitive topic of, we are going to be a cleaner, safer place for you to come. We've already been that as an industry, but to really make it that, this is going to be an extension of your home and here is what we are doing in order to make you feel that way. I mean, the way that the campaigns are run and you can Google all of them, each brand has them, is very creative. It's a very different shift of what it has been in the past where the forefront of the conversation is about safety. And in past times, it was safety of just we're here, we're a secure place. You're going to be protected in your hotel room to now the protected of cleanliness and here's what we're going to do to protect you from the virus but to come and to experience it and to support the local. It goes back to supporting those local communities. I think that is what will be quite unique is that, as a world, we can see some beautiful destinations and experience some beautiful hotels and we can do it within a 400 mile drive or a 400 mile plane ride, if we had to.

ADAM GOWER:
And it's interesting that you say, I can Google that. What I was interested in knowing was, what are the actual ways that they are marketing? Are they doing advertising?

VAIL ROSS:
Oh yes.

ADAM GOWER:
Are they creating social media content because I actually haven't seen anything at least, not that I've been aware of. Maybe I will now.

VAIL ROSS:
Not a lot on television. You see it a lot on social media. You see it a lot on.

ADAM GOWER:
Is that paid, paid social, is it Vail?

VAIL ROSS:
Yes. Some paid. Some of it is organic through these associations that they're involved in. Whether the conversations they're having, they do it through a lot of commentary of I think nowadays, this type of a Zoom is what's happening all the time. So constantly marketing through, this is what we are doing. It's almost a public announcement statement. So they're utilizing social media. They're utilizing and I'm assuming television is coming soon. Quite honestly, I haven't had the television on as much because it's quite depressing. But uh,

ADAM GOWER:
Good for you.

VAIL ROSS:
Yeah, but I should, as a marketer, definitely be probably putting the television on more often. But I think it will come as we've seen it with the food industry, as we've seen it with the retail industry. We will see the television advertisements coming sooner rather than later, absolutely. Social has been probably in the forefront because everyone's now in front of their computer and on LinkedIn and on Twitter now more than ever.

ADAM GOWER:
Exactly. I'll tell you what. Let's let's see if I had any other questions here I wanted to ask you. I've got three, if I may, ask you three sign-off questions I ask all of my guests. And just because of what we're going through right now, I'm adapting them slightly. So the first question, three sign off, just quick sign off questions.

ADAM GOWER:
The first is, for any hotelier listening now, suppose this should be two, I should ask you there. Any hotel owner listening now, what's the best advice you could give them, you think?

VAIL ROSS:
So I would say, some of the best advice would be to really stress-test your hotel financial performance. Do several different scenarios of recovery. Best case, likely case, worst case. It's something that hotels are, smart hoteliers are already doing now. And I know this because they're utilizing the data in which STR provides and we also have a consulting side of our business that is helping hotels do this. But really stress-testing financial performance, I would say, big takeaway.

ADAM GOWER:
So you have a division that supports hotels, being dead straight about it. Do you also, for somebody who is listening and wanting to buy hotels, today. Are there resources or any advice that you can give to them? Any avenues at STR that might be helpful?

VAIL ROSS:
I mean, yes, we have. I mean, we track all of the commercial real estate assets and what's for sale. We also have, and that's through our parent company, the CoStar Group. STR has all the hotels that are currently open and what's under construction. We don't necessarily, in our system, have what's for sale. But we do have that through our parent company, CoStar Group. I would say, advice would be to see what distressed assets are out there but as well, when you're looking at the P&L to stress-test the financials, because it's going to look very different when we open up and it will take awhile to get back to normal times.

ADAM GOWER:
Yeah. And you sell data just for anybody that doesn't know by now,

VAIL ROSS:
Yeah

ADAM GOWER:
after my introduction, before we got here. You sell data about how hotels are performing and you're talking about hotels that are actively for sale but, for somebody who is not a hotelier, can they buy data from STR that might show, who might be moving towards a sale?

VAIL ROSS:
Yes, absolutely we do.

ADAM GOWER:
OK.

VAIL ROSS:
And I would highly recommend, and we can, to go to the website because there's also great information, just free information, if people are interested. There's webinars, recorded webinars of, all over the world, of, kind of, what has started. When COVID started and how things have started to progress. There's a lot of resources there for those listeners who may not be as familiar with the hospitality space but would like to know what has been happening.

ADAM GOWER:
Perfect. And I'll include links for sure to all of that. Two last questions. Just strictly marketing now. Let's gets away from all the doom and gloom. The hardest lesson you've learned in your marketing career, as a professional marketer, online.

VAIL ROSS:
I think the biggest lesson is, when is it too much information? When are you over communicating to the extent that people stop listening? That has been a real lesson and a balance of this need to feel like you need to inform the industry and educate the industry and share this knowledge to the point that people stop listening. And it just becomes overload. And I think that will end up being a real key thing as we move forward as well, because we will be more in this virtual space, now more than ever. I think for a company who has a lot of staff members that travel and pre-COVID did trade shows and big booths, then big conferences, when we start to do post, how many more little handouts are we going to have? Are we going to have our brochures anymore? Are going to have a little giveaway gifts. What does that look like and how can we be creative in what will look like this post world as marketers in those types of business to business face to face meetings?

ADAM GOWER:
Last question. Key daily habits that you have that keep you successful online. And you've already confessed to not watching enough television.I wish that was the problem in my house. But, online, what are your key daily habits.

VAIL ROSS:
Shower.

ADAM GOWER:
At least month. Whether you need it or not.

VAIL ROSS:
Shower people.

VAIL ROSS:
You know, I think for me, I have I have used LinkedIn more than ever to stay connected to my my business colleagues. And that has become a "best practice," a daily practice for me, that honestly didn't happen before. Picking up the phone. It doesn't always have to be video. Sometimes just a voice, just, while thinking of someone, reaching out to someone.

VAIL ROSS:
And that has been, probably, something that I did not do in the past that I'm doing more of and to a broader group of people. Oftentimes, just hearing someone's voice can help us through that. And it oftentimes strikes up a lot of creative thinking and brainstorming.

VAIL ROSS:
And I think the last thing is I make sure I get outside. Small things, but there's so much creative stuff around us. And that's when I seem to do my best.

ADAM GOWER:
What a world we live in. Yes. Vail, I'm going to sign off now, but don't go away. Let me just sign off. I've got a couple of other off-line things I want to ask you. Vail Ross. It was three years ago, I spoke to Amanda Hite, and she was a wonderful, clearly a wonderful, wonderful woman. I've always believed that the sign of what a company is, is the people in the company. It's been such a pleasure, it's obvious from talking to her amd with you today what an incredible, wonderful place STR is. I really wish you all the very, very best. Thank you so much for joining me today during these hard times. I appreciate you coming on today.

VAIL ROSS:
Thank you for the invitation.

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